So Kayn's story made me realize that Noxus's military recruitment might be a little messed up.

Ralanr··22 votes·5,293 views

Namely in that they would use child soldiers of their own native territory as suicide soldiers. I feel there's a lot wrong with this.

First: Why use your own people? Can you not use slaves from other territories you've conquered?

Second: Why use your own people? Using your own street urchins as cannon fodder would be terrible for moral. Especially since you aren't even bothering to train them properly. I mean if I was a noxian soldier that wanted to climb the ranks and noticed that street urchins of my own proud city state have been made into suicide soldiers against their will, I'd question a lot of Noxus's tactics.

Finally, This royally screws over Noxus's modus operandi of how the strong thrive. Now I know what you're thinking;

Ralanr, clearly the strong kids would rise through the ranks if they survived.

And my response is this, "What fucking ranks are suicide soldiers even in?" They are not actual members of the army from my understanding, they are slaves that are expected to die and probably don't even get much care from the medic. If little Timmy got a deep wound during one of his raids but ended up surviving somehow, I doubt some captain is going to waste medical supplies on him.

"Well you were expected to die anyway and I don't feel like filling out paperwork." Cuts Timmy's fucking head in two.

And furthermore, would you want someone who was sold as a suicide soldier as a legit officer or captain? I don't, I think that person would have a big grudge against Noxus for that and use their position to screw Noxus over.

The greatest strength in Noxus that I believe much of the community perceived was the power of choice Noxians had over other areas like Demacia. But apparently that's not the case or it's a very recent thing under Swain. Which further pisses me off because Kled points out that only Riven is a true living Noxian and I don't think using children to do your dirty work is something that Noxus would respect, certainly not Kled and I hope not Sion.

Final Note: Kayn's story seems to just paint Noxus as incompetently evil right now. Yes I know child soldiers are a common tactic, but at the very least you train and brainwash them so they don't abandon you the first chance they get.

67 Comments

RiotRiotJaredan17 votes

I wouldn't take the horror of Kayn's experience as typical of Noxus's approach or attitude to recruitment. The Ionia conflict saw some very strange things happen within the Noxian military and beyond. I can't talk about them yet. But that day will come.

This horrendous tease has been brought to you by the celebration of Independence Day. Happy 4th to those who celebrate it.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

DragonShea2 votes

{quoted}

I wouldn't take the horror of Kayn's experience as typical of Noxus's approach or attitude to recruitment. The Ionia conflict saw some very strange things happen within the Noxian military and beyond. I can't talk about them yet. But that day will come.

This horrendous tease has been brought to you by the celebration of Independence Day. Happy 4th to those who celebrate it.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Got a question, Is Darius the guy that would reform Noxus into becoming more moral while still having it's ruthless edge or his just another pawn in Swains plans?

DwarvenGiant2 votes

I have a hunch (either read that somewhere before or just a feeling) that Darius is very skeptical (and intends to remains so) when it comes to Swain's reign on Noxus.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

I have a hunch (either read that somewhere before or just a feeling) that Darius is very skeptical (and intends to remains so) when it comes to Swain's reign on Noxus.

I think so too. I think the main point of contention between the two is Sion and The Black Rose.

RiotRiotJaredan9 votes

I think Darius's relationship with Swain is complicated. And evolving.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

I think Darius's relationship with Swain is complicated. And evolving.

Which means there's a lot of work to do in fleshing out their relationship then. That should be interesting to see once The lore of Noxian champions gets updated.

1Ferdinand11 votes

I hate you, i hate you so much... always tease tease tease for things that we may discover in years if lucky [zombie-nunu-tears]

La Bello3 votes

sometimes I feel like the reds here actually just making empty promises and just buying time for the lore guys to come up with something that makes the stories more cohesive and sensible.

anytime people seem to come up with a valid complaint they always have a answer "that they just cant show yet :)"

like COME on already. this little act is getting old real quick.

is Varus a Darkin or a Demon? was the horned succubus that killed Vaynes parents Evelynn? was Nocturne the evil spirit possessing Luca in Lux's story? What did happen to Fizz's race? Vastayans seem to be on good terms with some Ionians(good enough to join them in battle even). Wouldnt this make a race war over magic conflict really complicated? are there no Vastayans who can vouch for the good will of some humans? Rakan himself performs from them and even Xayah claims other women love him while in multiple stories there are Vastayans co-existing in human villages and markets. What IS Amumu and what are the origins of his curse?Is he a Yordle or a mummified cursed boy? Whats up with Sona and her Ethwal? What are Katarina and Talon doing about the mysterious disappearance of their mentor/father figure?

so many questions but the answer always seem to be the same

"cant say anything yet :)"

Its like a mom asking her kid if hes cleaned his room yet and he claims that he "totally has but she just cant see it yet....uh... reasons..."

Krabohod2 votes

The Noc stuff was explained btw

La Bello1 votes

really? can I get a citation? I thought it was left ambiguous on purpose

Krabohod2 votes

I'm pretty sure they confirmed it was Noc in Demacia Q&A

Beyond Legends2 votes

You do realize the riot may have things planned, but having something planned doesn't mean it's ready to publish.

Would you prefer Riot realease half baked concept only for them to have retcon it later on?

Not every bloody speculation need to be answered right away, not to mention some of those things are stilk kneck deep in retcon territory.

La Bello2 votes

but I mean some of these questions are literally YEARS old and not even new what answers have you been working on for an ENTIRE YEAR thats still not ready to launch?

Like the murderer of Yasuo's master. Yasuo was rleased in 2013 FOUR YEARS AGO. that is 1460 days riot has had to come up with a feasible explanation or wrap up his story.

and his lore is post "summoners retcon" or whatever so I mean just COME ON. WAS RIVEN THE MURDERER OR NOT? but we all know Riot wont say and will keep it ambiguous and mysterious because maybe Riot wants to do some evil guy with wind techniques later down line that happens to be the murder or something and they wouldnt be able to do that if they already gave Yasuo's story a proper ending. Its practically infurating the mentality of Riot always wanting to "keep their options open" strategy and never fully committing to something and setting a characters lore in concrete.

Its all one big tease to me I mean comon

Lucian finally meets Thresh but its a stalemate and both survive? MissFortune kills Gangplank but he comes back from the dead?

you know heres the funny thing about "legends'. they can also be PAST tense. I think it would still be feasible to say that the "Summoners Rift" is a magical battleground between time and space that would allow for beings and creatures of ALL timelines to show up so why in gods is Riot so scared of sealing a story or two? even if the character is dead and gone lore wise you can still technically be playing as the "LEGEND" of this character or maybe a version of him ripped from a timeline when he was once alive so it makes sense.I mean the idea of enemies like Thresh and Lucian teaming up already is nonsensical so why not go the distance and make the rift just a non - cannon ridiculous battleground like some sort of fantasy MUGEN ran by unseen forces? This would give you the option to actually tell complete stories behind someones lore and ultimately make them a more fulfilling character.

Swole Joel3 votes

Riot is building a massive universe. The stories will take years to fully develop. I personally wouldnt want to know everything that happens about a champion until the story develops in other areas as well. Otherwise there would be more holes and confusion.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

Can you at least tease Swain's mentality on leading? What makes him different from the previous leader?

Noctkazaku1 votes

Hnnnn, just give us the Noxus lore update or these teasers are going to drive me crazy! (Ahh, I really can't wait for the Noxus lore update!)

Blood Magicks1 votes

Noxus is the only homeland worth celebrating.

EmperorPengu2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blood Magicks,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EpEZTJET,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2017-07-04T19:43:29.959+0000)

Noxus is the only homeland worth celebrating.

What about shurima

Blood Magicks3 votes

Failed state. Dead culture. Sad.

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

Zaun.

Krabohod1 votes

Happy Tease of July!

GreenLore10 votes

It says that only a few commanders did something like this.So this simply means that the high ranking generals have a lot of freedom and can pretty much use their soldiers how they see fit. And some decide to just use the children as cannon fodder.

The big difference here is that in demacia,you are either born as a commander or as a pawn. In Noxus,anyone can become a commander regardless of where you were bron. But that doesn't mean that you can't be commanded to do something stupid if you are in a lower position.

Also going by the old lore,you have to keep in mind that the ionian invasion(and Rivens exile) happened under Borams rule,so Boram definetly betrayed the "original noxian way" already. However Riven didn't return to Noxus after Swain took over,because Swain is likely not much better(though probably smarter) So either Boram changed at one point(maybe after Sions death?)or Boram simply wasn't the one to define the noxians ideals.

Ralanr5 votes

I'm banking on Boram changing after losing his strongest supporter, becoming more ruthless and paranoid every year.

Whyte Lyon4 votes

Obviously Sion's death was the turning point in Boram's life. The implications of that was ultimately leading to his slow deterioration and assassination hundreds of years later. But how does losing your glorified body guard turn what I assume was a respected leader into a greedily dissatisfied tyrant with a fear of mortality? Boram was obviously paranoid about being usurped and that did in fact cloud his judgement but that was all his own undoing. If he could continue his status as Grand General for hundreds of years without Sion's protection than that kinda proves that his fear being usurped was unfounded.

What I’m saying is; would Noxus have deteriorated away from their ideals had Boram not have a tantrum over Sion?

Melledoneus3 votes

I see it more as the icon that Sion was to the Noxian people became no more than a myth to the new generation of the Noxian people. Thus, they do not feel the pride, fear, or respect of a leader whose greatest supporter is a memory with tales that, in their opinion, were probably exaggerated beyond belief.

I for one wouldn't believe a soldier existed that could crush armies simply by charging through them.

Ralanr1 votes

That makes sense. Many things of the past seem too mythical to the modern Runeterran.

Like Galio being alive.

Robertsmash7 votes

Probably just some of the more pathetic Noxian leaders. There are Noxian ideals, and then there are the lazy, arrogant pigs who inherited their positions of power. Darius did go around eliminating the weak leaders for a reason, and he probably teamed up with Swain to overthrow the leaders who did this exact kind of behavior.

It's probably honorable and accepted practice in Noxus to train a child as a soldier from an early age, but of course Kayn's situation is very different (sending in untrained children as a suicide unit).

Wrathof3006 votes

Going by the knowledge I learnt from observing the last Noxus post on this board: Noxus takes in their prisoners, thus, even if you're a slave/ refugee from a territory they conquered if you sign up for the military they treat you as a Noxian soldier, and not a Noxian soldier that used to be from a previoulsy conquered land, just, a Noxian soldier. I think this might be the case with Kayn, likely was born in Noxus to one of these refugees hence he is Noxian, yet still exploitable without the risk of public moral backlash, (granted the Noxian public probably doesn't even know they use child soldiers), Noxian yet, not truly Noxian.

(Hopefully we get Sharjo to confirm the specifics of Kayn's lineage, I doubt he was cut from the same stone as Katarina or even Karthus, though Talon in the future may end up sharing a similar backstory with Kayn, in terms of being a child soldier)

Sharjo15 votes

I can't speak to Kayn's lineage as I just don't know, but in regards to this whole debacle I know that there were Noxians wholly opposed to invading Ionia to begin with, and many more who got royally pissed off and upset as it progressed.

Wrathof3002 votes

Hopefully, whenever we get around to the Noxus Update they remember to touch a bit more on the whole child soldier thing. As I assume that's probably why they even bothered to carry Taliyah despite her being a child, aside from the stone magiks of course, as she didn't even know how to control her powers at the time.

Wind2345 votes

Sorry to randomly join in, but if you're willing, I've had a question about Noxus for a long time and you seem to be the right person to ask about lore. lol

For a long time now, Noxus has always been portrayed as evil. Just pure evil and everybody else hates them. But I also keep hearing that Noxus isn't supposed to be completely black morally and there are good people in the empire like everywhere else. However, we rarely, if ever, get to see any of this. All we know about are Noxian soldiers being evil and doing evil because, well, the world needs to hate somebody. And the only Noxian champion who can be considered on the more "heroic" side of the spectrum is Riven - everyone else is either anti-heroic or outright villainous. And Riven deserted! That really doesn't paint Noxus in a good light at all.

So my question really boils down to this; what precisely is good about Noxus, and if this supposed "good" side exists, then why do we never hear about it? Cause right now Noxus is looking pretty black, and I'm not interested in a place that's just evil without any real explanations.

Sharjo12 votes

Cause right now Noxus is looking pretty black, and I'm not interested in a place that's just evil without any real explanations.

Mostly because Noxus hasn't had much time in the spotlight where we see things from their perspective. I assure you, that's going to be changing, but beyond that talking too much about Noxus right now will probably be a big spoiler for future developments. Sorry for the vague answer, but rest assured that Riot's committed to giving Noxus their time spotlight; the spotlight they deserve.

Krabohod1 votes

It's pretty interesting.. I think, if nothing pops up on Urgot release we should assume it will be an event..

Any news on Demon Lore update? Or Yordle?

And what is up with Baccai? Will we hear about 'em again?

SolarisCorvus2 votes

From normal morals i guess most noxians look villanous because they value strength over eveything and care not about the persons backgrounds or morals for the most part. I think the best noxians in terms of not being evil would be Kled, Riven and pre zombie Sion. Kled embodies pure courage and will to fight for what they desire no matter what the odds. Riven displays noxian strength and actual morals. And sion shows the will the fight and die for the land abd ideals he believes in. I believe that Noxus has simply been corrupted by the influences of the black rose which has twisted Noxus from being a proud land where all are accepted despite their background and a place that will always fight for what they believe to be theirs. If your not strong enough to defend it, it wasnt yours in the first place.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

[....] Kled embodies pure courage [....]

Kled "I find courage unpredictable, it's total insanity you can rely on!"

With the whole "Yordles are impersonifications of ideals" theory, Kled shows Noxus' ideals quite well in my opinion. It is less about courage, but strength... and the fact that he is totally insane shows that there doesn't matter anything else except strength in Noxus, not even your mental state.

SolarisCorvus1 votes

"I am deep-fried courage, and an apple pie of angry!", "At the gates of Qualthala, they tried using that boiling oil on us, but you can't deep-fry courage!"

I never took that quote seriously. Kled's fucking insane as shit and that makes him say random shit and then contradict said shit with more random shit. The reason i didnt use strength to describe Kled is because every true noxian is already strong, its a prerequisite. Kled however also personifies the courage in every true Noxian as well, from Darius deacaptitaing cowardly generals, sion charging to his ceartin death in battle to Riven building up the courage to abandon Noxus due to its corruption. They all have courage and thats what Kled imo embodies except he just cranks it up to eleven due to his homicidal insanity and mushroom juice addiction.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Hm, that depends on your definition of courage, tbh. Is it courage if you are an assassin backstabbing your enemy without him noticing you? Many people would describe that act as cowardish, but that doesn't make you less "true noxian" in my opinion.

Noxus appreciates strength in all its forms. It doesn't matter how you overcome your enemy, all that matters is that you succeed. Using intrigues, illusions, murder, poison..... As long as your methods show results, you are strong.

Eternal7911 votes

Just curious. Say the new Urgot is/was a Noxian general, would he be the kind of person to employ such amoral tactics as sending in untrained children as cannon fodder? I just feel like Urgot should be an extremely cruel and barbaric (if that's the right word) kind of guy.

Krabohod1 votes

I think Urgot would be smart enough to understand that it is pretty dumb tactic

Eternal7911 votes

True, but at the same time, I could see him deploying some cannon fodder (children or not) just to distract the enemy while he bombards them with chemtech missiles and artillery shells.

DragonShea1 votes

{quoted}

Going by the knowledge I learnt from observing the last Noxus post on this board: Noxus takes in their prisoners, thus, even if you're a slave/ refugee from a territory they conquered if you sign up for the military they treat you as a Noxian soldier, and not a Noxian soldier that used to be from a previoulsy conquered land, just, a Noxian soldier. I think this might be the case with Kayn, likely was born in Noxus to one of these refugees hence he is Noxian, yet still exploitable without the risk of public moral backlash, (granted the Noxian public probably doesn't even know they use child soldiers), Noxian yet, not truly Noxian.

(Hopefully we get Sharjo to confirm the specifics of Kayn's lineage, I doubt he was cut from the same stone as Katarina or even Karthus, though Talon in the future may end up sharing a similar backstory with Kayn, in terms of being a child soldier)

Talon was not a child soldier. He was a skilled thief and assassin that General Du Couteau took in after he beat him.

Unvictus1 votes

I honestly can't wait till they update the Noxian lore for the Universe site. Katarina is my favorite champion and I love every aspect of her. Her kit, appearance, lore, etc. I'm so excited to hopefully get to learn more about her background and her family as well.

SolarisCorvus6 votes

I just saw it as military freedom in Noxus. I read somewhere that Noxians dont even have a uniform for all soldiers and their weapons and armor change from army to army. So Kayn's commander was just the type of guy to use kids as shields.

GenoXx2 votes

Was Taliyah's recruitment not a clue?

Arakadia2 votes

I agree with your whole post. Another thing that confused me in his color story though:

It seemed a little weird how small and/or easy to take down the escort for Rhaast was. I do understand that Kayn's color story is supposed to portray him in the coolest/darkest manner possible, within reason, however Noxus knows that there are people like Kayn out there.

I just don't understand why they wouldn't send someone who would be able to protect something as valuable as a Darkin Blade better. Whether a magic user, or a soldier, or someone rather than just Noxian pike-man who aren't very courageous.

Ralanr2 votes

I'd argue this is Noxus's first encounter with shadow magic and they didn't expect it so deep in Noxus. But even that feels a little weak.

DeathBurst2 votes

The keyword here is "unreliable narrator". We get the story from Kayn and/or Zed PoV (it's not very clear). Doesn't mean it's the truth, doesn't mean it's a typical case.

Cardinal Sinveil1 votes

Yeah, it's almost like Noxus is the Runeterra version of North Korea

Ralanr2 votes

They are supposed to be more like Rome!

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

more like Murica. diverse but militaristic. or Rome, like he said, that's more accurate

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