I think I finally understand why I don’t feel Kayn is “edgy”

Ralanr·Dec 8, 2017·78 votes·4,634 views

It’s because he’s a parody of edgy characters.

Edgy characters have a personality and an outlook that reflects the world as a very dark and cynical place. Kayn doesn’t have that, he’s instead incredibly cocky and overconfident in his abilities. He looks edgy, but he doesn’t act like anything is serious or even a threat to him. His small talk with Rhaast shows this, how he has no worry or fear of losing to Rhaast.

He’s basically every DeviantArt OC that has a “curse” power and presents themselves as tragic figures in a shitty world but don’t act like it. I’d call it a “tough guy” facade but in my mind a facade requires you to realize that you’re faking it deep down. And I don’t get it from Kayn.

So bravo Riot. You made a DeviantArt OC.

(I still enjoy playing Kayn but I hate his character).

64 Comments

SEKAIDec 8, 201737 votes

His personality trait is pretty similar to any other overly cocky characters who happen to also be genius and thus believe their cockiness is justified. I won't say it's that edgy, generic maybe.

But that's the first impression.

Upon a closer inspection, his cockiness is perhaps just a facade put up merely to deal with Rhaast, given they can vaguely sense each other's emotions due to their connection; and the last thing you wanna do when you're against your literal mortal enemy is to show them your back (as evident by Rhaast occasionally taunts Kayn by claiming that they feel there is doubt in the latter's heart). And this is why they banter like salty good friends, when in fact they're just plotting to kill each other when the time is right. They seem like a duo that rely on each other to complement each other's characters, and it really does seem they complement each other just fine; but the reality is that one has to die in the end, and they both can't wait to get rid of the other and absorb their things as their own. If you think about it this way, Kayn is suddenly not such a shallow character.

Honestly, I really don't believe Kayn is as badly written as some would say tbh. In fact I'd say he's pretty solid. He has that generic flair going for him, the long black hair and young face, the long and big scythe, the shadow demon power, and cockiness and that stuff with being a genius, all of them recipes for the most generic DeviantArt OC; but then manages to distinguish himself by actually having a meaningful character just fine, and act in such a way he's a self conscious parody of the supposed edginess with underlining layers of his own rather than just being defined as one. I'd like to think he's okay.

Blood MagicksDec 8, 201725 votes

I think being ridiculously cute also helps. (see: his dance, the youthful energy, his banter with Rhaast)

https://imgur.com/R1fPzkH.png

RalanrDec 8, 201710 votes

Another example of “edgy” OC traits imo.

BattalionDec 8, 20176 votes

Youthful energy & Banter...I present the most edgy characters in league, in order.

Zoe Bard Ivern Gnar Galio Fizz Ezreal Blitzcrank Jhin Kindred Kayn Gangplank I've lost interest

Honorable Mentions Diana Annie Azir AurelionSol Fiddlesticks

HonestJohnTheConDec 8, 20178 votes

Jhin was in the fourth row, take my upvote.

Chromatic EagleDec 9, 20172 votes

I have to downvote you to keep it at 4.

HonestJohnTheConDec 9, 20171 votes

Perfection comes at a cost.

...aaaaaand this is a Jhin thread now.

Chromatic EagleDec 10, 20171 votes

Now I had to upvote you to 8.

BattalionDec 9, 20171 votes

He's actually in the fourth row and in a column of 4.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

VorpaltheFoxDec 9, 20172 votes

NOT FOURTH ON THE FOURTH ROW, DISQUALIFIED

BattalionDec 9, 20171 votes

But then he wouldn't be in a column of 4

Blood MagicksDec 8, 201710 votes

I must admit I misinterpreted your OP partly because I have a hard time believing anyone can honestly dislike Kayn.

Part of his charm is that he executes a soulless childish trope with lots of humor and soul. It's semi-ironic like Reaper, but more subtle, which just makes him all the more lovable.

And to be honest I completely understand his cockiness. I was the same when I was about his age, having faced many hard challenges and about to face the hardest one. It's actually quite deep - a maturing prodigy facing the challenges of adulthood. One of the many deeper topics Kayn manages to stand for if you just look under the surface.

RalanrDec 8, 20174 votes

Thing is, I dislike Kayn as a character when judging him without Rhaast. They are built to bounce off of each other true, but at least Rhaast has a bit of irony (if that’s the word) with his cockiness because he’s stuck in a scythe and needs someone to hold him. He actually needs help and it makes it easy to punish him.

Kayn? Not so much. He doesn’t have room to learn from mistakes, he either dies or makes none.

SEKAIDec 8, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Thing is, I dislike Kayn as a character when judging him without Rhaast. They are built to bounce off of each other true, but at least Rhaast has a bit of irony (if that’s the word) with his cockiness because he’s stuck in a scythe and needs someone to hold him. He actually needs help and it makes it easy to punish him.

Kayn? Not so much. He doesn’t have room to learn from mistakes, he either dies or makes none.

The answer lies in this particular banter they have.

Kayn: "If I let you go, you will die." Rhaast: "And you will lose."

They're stuck in the same situation. They both need each other to do shit, but they simultaneously reject and want to kill each other in the end.

They're practically the original Mythbusters (if you're new, the 2 Mythbusters never get along). Like, really.

RalanrDec 8, 20171 votes

“And you will lose”

See that doesn’t seem to be much of a risk. I get that Kayn’s Overconfidence is what leads him down this path, but he’s young enough to learn humility.

SEKAIDec 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

“And you will lose”

See that doesn’t seem to be much of a risk. I get that Kayn’s Overconfidence is what leads him down this path, but he’s young enough to learn humility.

I mean, letting go of Rhaast also means losing a great deal of his current power, Kayn needs it if he wants to be strong enough to surpass Zed, or at least he believes that's the case. So both of them are more or less humbling (in a sense) each other because of their circumstances: Rhaast wants Kayn(or just someone)'s body and has to play along with Kayn here and there to wait for the opportunity to get what he wants, and similarly Kayn wants Rhaast's power and has to play along with Rhaast here and there to wait for the opportunity to get what he wants; it's pretty even and solid I'd claim.

Blood MagicksDec 8, 20171 votes

He doesn’t have room to learn from mistakes, he either dies or makes none.

Which is a metaphor for the viciousness of adulthood and how unprepared we all are when pushed into real life? Regardless, he doesn't have to be perfect to overcome Rhaast, just strong enough.

This is where we need a Rioter to step in and tell us how long Kayn and Rhaast can feasibly coexist.

Otherwise I don't really see any of the things you mention. Kayn definitely isn't pure solid edge because he's full of things that indicate weakness and vulnerability (inexperience, inability to take the world seriously, repressed homosexual desires, a very troubled childhood). if anything Rhaast is, when finally free, completely and boringly one-sided (except for when he seems to miss Kayn).

RalanrDec 8, 20172 votes

Got any quotes to back up your opinions? I’d love to hear where he expresses he’s troubled.

Blood MagicksDec 8, 20172 votes

He doesn't ever let it slip through and that's part of his character. It would be terribly hamfisted writing for him to just let it all out in the presence of Rhaast. Also, repressed emotion is part of his character.

That's why you have his lore. Poor, lowborn, child soldier at 10, and then put under insane amount of pressure to constantly prove himself. Hell, his lines, the overdependence on Zed's approval which isn't exactly healthy.

Then you have Rhaast, who has partly taken over him, peeking into his mind, talking about his weaknesses and insecurities. Theres many exchanges like that, but this strikes me as the one where Kayn is obviously lying:

Rhaast: "There is fear in your grip, and doubt in your heart!" Kayn: "I have no heart. That, you should fear."

"I have no heart", like what kind of generic edgy teenage response is that? He's faking it so obviously, like the thousands of troubled teenagers he will attract, who only adopt the hard facade to get away from their own messed up lives. The writing is so self-aware it hurts. If you need more convincing, consider why Rhaast is a scythe: because he symbolises death, as you already know, in the mythological sense. But in the context of Kayn he also stands for the many forms of suicide.

Another element of good writing that struck me is how Reav3 insisted on Kayn's sexual orientation never being revealed. I think it's because that's up to the players to figure out, and most importantly to Kayn himself.

MogarlDec 10, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Blood Magicks,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EkoX6s1p,comment-id=0000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-08T21:33:44.061+0000) But in the context of Kayn he also stands for the many forms of suicide.

Another element of good writing that struck me is how Reav3 insisted on Kayn's sexual orientation never being revealed. I think it's because that's up to the players to figure out, and most importantly to Kayn himself.

I like most of your post, but I think you're pushing a little past "what's obvious" here. Not revealing a champion's sexual orientation is an economic choice. You don't need to stop players who feel they have something in common with a character from plastering the entirety of themselves on a character and becoming even more attached. I don't dislike Kayn for being very generic, but his character is designed in such a way to mass appeal to teens.

Blood MagicksDec 10, 20171 votes

Oh I agree with that too, obviously Riot wanted him to be relatable to the maximum amount of people while not putting off fanboys and fangirls alike BUT it fits well into his story that his sexuality is "Not figured himself out yet".

PlacentasDec 9, 20171 votes

I like your interpretation of Kayn, just sayin'.

SpecterVonBarenDec 8, 201712 votes

Kayne isn't edgey. He's the kind of character that attracts edgey people.

Sahn UzalDec 8, 20179 votes

Personally, I don't think Kayn is as confident as he appears to be. He just doesn't want to show Rhaast any weakness.

SzGamer227Dec 8, 20175 votes

I disagree. Kayn has to have a truly incredible amount of willpower and self-confidence to even contest a Darkin's influence, let alone maintain essentially complete control of himself (see: Val and Kai struggling to control Varus, who can do almost anything he wants with the exception of killing innocent people). When Kayn defeats Rhaast, he continues on without another thought, saying "I bested the darkin, now the plan continues" as if it wasn't a big deal and he was always going to win.

yay nibbersDec 8, 20175 votes

Kayn's willpower is such that when he beats Rhaast he doesn't just shut him out of his body, but actually pushes his own influence into Rhaast's, he beats the Darkin at its own game. You can see it very clearly in-game when he transforms, any trace of Rhaast seems to be purged from the scythe he inhabited, right down to his weird scythe eye.

JJ4622Dec 9, 20171 votes

That's a pretty big point, he didn't just beat Rhaast, he KILLED him:

"In death, Rhaast now serves me."
"I have snuffed out the darkin, who dares stand against me?"

By contrast, Rhaast never explicitly mentions destroying Kayn:

"I have broken the great Kayn, you think you can defeat me?"
"Kayn weeps in the abyss between oblivions.. Idiot."

He refers to Kayn as still existing in some form or another, which I initially assumed was because he wanted to make Kayn suffer some more, however given further reading it may be possible that Rhaast actually CAN'T kill Kayn for some reason (however unlikely). All in all though its more evidence that Kayn is remarkable strong willed and that his self confidence is NOT misplaced.

Colgate GatorDec 8, 20176 votes

That's my conundrum with Kayn, I love Rhaast and playing as him, but it's a pain that he's bundled with Kayn.

Also it doesn't help that using pre-evolution Kayn feels like you're playing with half a champion.

Craft ZeppelinDec 8, 20176 votes

Actually he is a literal badass because he can SOLO a darkin with his sheer will and frigging high EGO, while it takes a gay couple love and all that kinky stuff and still fail.

YiffMeImAFurryDec 8, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EkoX6s1p,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-12-08T19:04:15.583+0000)

Actually he is a literal badass because he can SOLO a darkin with his sheer will and frigging high EGO, while it takes a gay couple love and all that kinky stuff and still fail.

Not solo

He gets help from blue balls

RockmanDec 9, 20175 votes

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQdYd_GUQAAwptC.jpg

CasterGilgameshDec 8, 20174 votes

i never thought he was edgy he has reasons to be dark and his personality is more in line with someone like Fiora

Troll for TrumpDec 9, 20174 votes

He's basically this guy. Looks like 'im too.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/4/42/SF_STEAM_MANUAL_EN_LRv5-8.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20171104073854

BârdDec 9, 20173 votes

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/selectall/2016/06/23/coldsteel.nocrop.w710.h2147483647.2x.jpg

ChuShoeDec 9, 20174 votes

Cringe

Troll for TrumpDec 10, 20173 votes

https://i.imgur.com/1TdHj1y.gif?noredirect

DreamspitterDec 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

It’s because he’s a parody of edgy characters.

Edgy characters have a personality and an outlook that reflects the world as a very dark and cynical place. Kayn doesn’t have that, he’s instead incredibly cocky and overconfident in his abilities. He looks edgy, but he doesn’t act like anything is serious or even a threat to him. His small talk with Rhaast shows this, how he has no worry or fear of losing to Rhaast.

He’s basically every DeviantArt OC that has a “curse” power and presents themselves as tragic figures in a shitty world but don’t act like it. I’d call it a “tough guy” facade but in my mind a facade requires you to realize that you’re faking it deep down. And I don’t get it from Kayn.

So bravo Riot. You made a DeviantArt OC.

(I still enjoy playing Kayn but I hate his character).

https://orig00.deviantart.net/95f2/f/2016/153/6/7/edgy_reaper_by_asfoxger-da4q0yk.png

RalanrDec 8, 20174 votes

At least Reaper has...well actually he’s edge through anger but I’m somewhat biased for him.

BoulderoxDec 8, 20174 votes

{quoted}

At least Reaper has...well actually he’s edge through anger but I’m somewhat biased for him.

remember folks, soldier 76 is scarier than reaper, soldier lines sound like he's gonna brutalize you, reaper sounds cold and calculated.

RalanrDec 8, 20173 votes

76 sounds like he’s finally done being the nice guy face of OW and is ready to remind people just what he’s capable of.

General Esdeath Dec 8, 20173 votes

Kayn Es behind you Nothing personnel, kid

EeyoreDec 9, 20172 votes

Modern usage of the word "edgey" just means "looks gothic" or has "wears themes of death". Heck, it could probably even be simplified further to "wears black". I'm not sure Kayn was ever suppose to actually be edgey, people just called him edgey because he was release back-to-back without a lot of other grim-dark personalities and it was becoming a meme that Riot doesn't know how to lighten up.

CarameI FrappeDec 9, 20172 votes

If Kayn ever gets an ultimate skin, it should as if both Kayn and Rhaast became friends, working together to become one ultimate being. I'm not sure if that would be possible, considering what a Darkin must do to survive- but I think that would be legit amazing. Still have Kayn's cocky personality, but with Rhaast backing him up being the serious one. A new being made from two people.

I did not get this idea from Naruto or Bleach I swear ... cough

Blaiz FenixDec 10, 20172 votes

I mean that's fine.

Why does everyone feel the need to like every champion and tell people why they don't?

They are supposed to be like people. You don't like every person. You don't like every champion.

NekoniClawsDec 8, 20171 votes

Well, I mean, I'd define him as videogame edgy, not anime edgy.

See, in a videogame, I just can't stand to hear a character whining all the time when I'm enjoying myself- it's a huge disconnect. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone, and I'm pretty sure Riot knows this.

DreamspitterDec 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Well, I mean, I'd define him as videogame edgy, not anime edgy.

See, in a videogame, I just can't stand to hear a character whining all the time when I'm enjoying myself- it's a huge disconnect. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone, and I'm pretty sure Riot knows this.

So basically, no one would play Shinji in a videogame.

NekoniClawsDec 8, 20171 votes

Not no-one, just not people like me.

If Kayn was whining like Sasuke (his progenitor) does... oh god.

DreamspitterDec 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not no-one, just not people like me.

If Kayn was whining like Sasuke (his progenitor) does... oh god.

I don't remember Sauce whining though.

NekoniClawsDec 9, 20172 votes

Not whining out loud, as a character-

To me; his POV felt like whining, his 'brooding' felt like moping. I found him more a psychopathic tsundere than an interesting character I wanted to follow.

You can try to convince me to like Sasuke's archetype, but far too many man-hours have been dedicated to that task and I think we can get to Mars if we really try.

DreamspitterDec 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not whining out loud, as a character-

To me; his POV felt like whining, his 'brooding' felt like moping. I found him more a psychopathic tsundere than an interesting character I wanted to follow.

You can try to convince me to like Sasuke's archetype, but far too many man-hours have been dedicated to that task and I think we can get to Mars if we really try.

Why does no one complain about Batman? Not saying sauce is anywhere near the level of the goddamn batman. But some characters. Batman. Spawn. Others, they just have to brood . It's what they do.

It's gotta be somethin else about him.