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Riot's not responding to threads about "the League shouldn't have been retconned out!"

darkdill··14 votes·3,747 views

This thread, the one with +95 on it (atm)? Are you seriously ignoring it, Riot?

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/krpYhq3T-riot-shouldve-closed-the-league-through-writing-rather-than-a-retcon

http://i36.tinypic.com/2l913j8.jpg

Want me to give you a way you could've written the League's destruction rather than just saying "it didn't exist!"?

Here's one to introduce a new faction: DRAGONS. And yes, it stars one of my Champion Concepts, but try looking beyond that.

Many millennia ago, Runeterra was ruled by the Dragons, who had enslaved the other races under them to bring order to the world and safeguard it. The Dragons were ruled by a cruel black dragon known as Plagueis, who crowned himself the Dragon King after leading his brethren to subjugate the mortal races.

Plagueis ruled for one thousand years before a human uprising occurred, led by a warrior who commanded the power of the Sun (yep, Leona's ancestor). After a series of victories against the Dragons, this warrior challenged Plagueis to single combat. Overconfident, Plagueis accepted the challenge, and was slain in battle.

Following Plagueis' death, the Dragons dissolved into infighting over scraps of territory, leading to ultimately fatal battles between the Dragons, who were also hunted by their former slaves. In time, memory of the Dragon Age was lost, except to a few elder Dragons who have survived since such ancient times.

Now we return to the modern age, where the Institute of War exists. A group of Summoners, ordered by the High Council of the Institute, make their way to Plagueis' old lair, a high mountain named Death's Spire. They find Plagueis' bones in the lair and perform a magic ritual to resurrect the dragon and turn it into a mindless thrall. However, they did not count on Plagueis' dark spirit lingering within his bones, and as he was given new life as a Dracolich, he "rewarded" the Summoners with a swift death. Learning of Plagueis' return, the High Council sent a contingent of Adjudicators to kill him, but Plagueis escaped.

Learning that the Institute of War wished to control the remaining Dragons in Valoran to give itself an army (in order to police the other factions), Plagueis was infuriated. He rallied together many other dragons, some who had been his loyal lieutenants during the Dragon Age, and formed a small but powerful army. Plagueis and his followers attacked the Institute of War, completely overwhelming the Summoners and Adjudicators, killing the High Councilors, and burning the Institute to the ground.

Within the ruins of the Institute of War, Plagueis created a new lair for himself and his subjects, and now he seeks to reconquer all of Valoran, and return Runeterra to the days of the Dragon Age.

See, Riot? This could be MUCH better.

62 Comments

3ngin33r15 votes

They never touch criticism threads unless they can absolutely come out on top

darkdill9 votes

That means they're cowards.

Keevalroy11 votes

Not necessarily, maybe stubborn is a better word for it. Typically when something has a high amount of negative feedback, they're usually so dead set on releasing what they have anyway, that no amount of feedback will change their minds. We've seen this consistently over the years, and it's still very much the case today.

Why aren't they responding to high-volume criticism threads? Well, why bother talking when there's no way you won't be downvoted to oblivion for saying that their decision is final? I just wish they could accept that Riot doesn't always know best, and be open to feedback. They claim to be open, but...what's changed? EDIT: The Ahri splash did get reverted, so there's that, something I'm very thankful for.

This isn't only for Narrative, this is for all departments: Leddit is an environment of false positives, you shouldn't be afraid of negativity here - it only gets worse the longer you avoid the forums. If they want to repair the line of trust with the community, talking to us about these controversial or unwanted changes, asking for feedback is a nice start. It sounds like the interaction between Riot and Community that you wanted, and it lets us see what's going on before it's a "final decision." Surprises are good every so often, keeping everything behind closed doors creates justified concern and distrust.

twiztid3 votes

The best thing to do is not play their game till they fix it. If there numbers dwindle your hitting them in the pockets. Their numbers go down their money goes down. I have completely stopped playing LoL until they fully address the problem. no joke I have been playing since beta and have probably spent over 1.5k on the game. I refuse to play or spend more until they fix the servers period. I've had it with riots lack of customer support and shitty network. Im going to play infinity crisis or dota 2 until they feel like spending time to fix the problem.

DG Ashabel11 votes

As I have mentioned in another thread, an article in New York Times reveals that Riot Games recently underwent some internal restructuring.

In mid-September, six people met in a room at Riot Games. They were members of a corporate division, called Foundations, tasked with fleshing out the history of all the game’s champions, including the climate, landscape, architecture and dress of their place of origin.

Little of that information has any effect on game play. The point of Foundations is to lend concreteness to the Legends universe, as it’s depicted for fans on the website and in promotional materials.

It is likely that this division are the ones calling the shots about narrative direction now, with the narrative team having little say in it and thus having nothing but personal opinions to share in such threads. Which would be a bad thing, since they're corporate employees communicating with their customers and their opinions shouldn't clash with the company's direction.

And given that this division seems to have no presence whatsoever on the forums, it is likely that large decisions such as Institute's erasure will continue to have little if any understanding of how the community feels about it.

Diahane4 votes

As I have mentioned in another thread, an article in New York Times reveals that Riot Games recently underwent some internal restructuring.

In mid-September, six people met in a room at Riot Games. They were members of a corporate division, called Foundations, tasked with fleshing out the history of all the game’s champions, including the climate, landscape, architecture and dress of their place of origin.

Little of that information has any effect on game play. The point of Foundations is to lend concreteness to the Legends universe, as it’s depicted for fans on the website and in promotional materials.

It is likely that this division are the ones calling the shots about narrative direction now, with the narrative team having little say in it and thus having nothing but personal opinions to share in such threads. Which would be a bad thing, since they're corporate employees communicating with their customers and their opinions shouldn't clash with the company's direction.

And given that this division seems to have no presence whatsoever on the forums, it is likely that large decisions such as Institute's erasure will continue to have little if any understanding of how the community feels about it.

Ouch, this hurts. Sounds like no hope.

DG Ashabel3 votes

Yeah, it's pretty depressive.

All the more reason for us to pretend the retcon never happened and continue to write/RP with old lore in mind. If they don't respect our involvement in the project, we shouldn't have to respect theirs either. Death of the Writer and all that.

Motajo1 votes

It is likely that this division are the ones calling the shots about narrative direction now, with the narrative team having little say in it and thus having nothing but personal opinions to share in such threads. Which would be a bad thing, since they're corporate employees communicating with their customers and their opinions shouldn't clash with the company's direction.

And given that this division seems to have no presence whatsoever on the forums, it is likely that large decisions such as Institute's erasure will continue to have little if any understanding of how the community feels about it.

This... Foundations division sounds worrying. Do you have a link?

DG Ashabel4 votes

Here you go.

It's down near the end of the article. Quick-search for "Weather in Shurima".

Neon Robot6 votes

[deleted]

Cookiehime2 votes

I'd argue that narrative can't respond simply because under the circumstances if they were to respond it would open a sort of Pandora's Box. It would effectively...

  • Grant legitimacy to the position that the retcon wasn't necessary.
  • Allow the two positions to be effectively debated which would deeply harm the retcon.
  • Allow for even more of the flimsy reasoning behind the retcon to have holes poked in it.
  • Most importantly, give us a peek at just what they do and do not have a say over.

Hearing about this Foundations thing leads me to believe that what they can actually control isn't nearly as big as you'd think.

This is kinda depressing. But there must be an underlying reason as to why the retcon took place and why they're not reverting the changes. It'll be way too illogical if narrative did it on a whim. I'd be seriously baffled if that were the case. So, best bet is that Riot's planning to create lore-related stuff that sells and brings cash. Nothing wrong with wanting to earn more money. Just wished they did not ninja those retcons during all those years and throw the retcon bomb right into the faces of the fanbase. It honestly makes me feel that all the time and emotion (uh-huh. even feelings are a factor) I spent playing that game were truly wasted and pointless... even if playing games is in reality pointless. But the illusion has been completely shattered.

Final GirI6 votes

Eventually you all will shut up about this whole lore thing and find something else to complain about, that's how it always is.

Diahane6 votes

Eventually you all will shut up about this whole lore thing and find something else to complain about, that's how it always is.

I never complained about anything else Riot's done, so I'm no serial complainer. Reducing disagreement to people wanting to complain for the sake of it is a condescending and authoritarian attitude. Besideds complaints should be evaluated based on the arguments exposed. If they are good, the complaint should be heard even if it were to come from a person who does it for the sole sake of it. And to a logically exposed argument one should reply with an equally logically argued one. Not all complaints have been voiced in the most civil and rational manner, but even those which were have been mostly ignored and gone unanswered. Thus the general bad mood of part of the board's populace.

GenoXx3 votes

Well, Narrative wont respond to something like that. You have to understand, they are people too.

Earl Eulrich6 votes

they are people too.

And as such they may do some mistakes and be forgiven....but repeating the same mistake over and over just out of stubbornness or bad internal infrastructures is just inexcuseable.

GenoXx2 votes

What was this same mistake? Not responding to this guy about the league's disappearance? If that's what u call that a mistake, you guys a re very petty.

Earl Eulrich7 votes
  • (ab-)using retcons over and over for any issues they met with the established lore, instead of trying to find other solutions/way to preservere what´s there
  • releasing everything as a "shock-release" instead of gathering feedback before major changes
  • refusing to engage with the communities criticism
  • leaving no lore to explain/enhance the gameplay
GenoXx3 votes

Save it dude, I know it all. Only thing I can say is, Narrative has improved their performance say like 8% percent maybe? From what people used to know them as. Although, what I see them doing now is asking the community about certain stuff to get an idea of what Runeterra should be like. Like asking about Taric, or commenting on threads that contain certain champion's lore. They wanted everyone to shift to boards anyway, that's why they never responded to the lore forum we all know. But, I don't understand why they would just now get started on building a world for league....meaning they just started with that Historical Dev Blog. Why did it take them since the Freljord retcon to Augst of this year to actually do anything?....Idk... But esports was certainly the focus of the entire group of Riot. I don't think not one soul from riot stayed here in America when the finals took place.....Because its soooo important(cough) Anyway, Riot focus's and spends too much money on e--sports. I heavily believe that they didn't have the money to actually make any lore actually, if not, im still sure lore wasn't one of the top things on their list like it is now. That I still don't understand(like anyone) About them responding to threads nowadays, like I said before, I only see them commenting on threads they can feed off of. Like Theories, or summaries. I guest so they can get an idea of what to write.....Either way That 8% percent I was talking about was their somewhat improved communication. This is why I say they want respond to a post like this. They seem to not take constructive criticism very well. But for someone that is suppose to have these wonderful surprises for us, you would think they would respond. However, it's like throwing meat into a wolf pit. No one from their seemingly four man team wants to come say something and get pounced on by over a thousand of us. Like some assholes will just come to say something, just to be an asshole. That happened in the Lore Discussion forum and it was getting really sad. If they do come to say anything, you guys shouldn't be hungry wolves in the grass. Try to be a little bit more respectful for the communities' sake

twiztid2 votes

Why doesn't blizzard, steam, any of the other networks have this problem. They are people and they can resolve the situation. It's like they have a million creative people but can't fine one networking. They just don't have good skills when it comes to hiring people for network issues.

GenoXx3 votes

Because they have teams that actually focus on lore,...unlike riot has over the years

MrBuffington2 votes

This whole issue is several months old. They responded to threads when it first came up. All I see now are threads that ignore all the comments they've already made, and then just whine about how they're being ignored. They've made their position clear, they've already discussed this with the community, if you're late to the party, stop complaining that they started without you.

Earl Eulrich5 votes

they've already discussed this with the community

I think one of us has a seriously ill definition of what it means to "discuss" sth.

MrBuffington4 votes

You're right, I don't see how Riot can make any progress in a discussion when all the community does is rehash the same old arguments that Riot has already responded to.

Keevalroy5 votes

You mean like the same rehashed apologies that they need to do a better job of communicating with us? It does suck that they aren't, and it sucks that we're angry about it, but when they hide from negative feedback and push out the controversial content anyway, we have a reason to be mad about that.

Not all reactions are going to be sunshine and rainbows like on Reddit. When something is pissing people off, asking them what exactly they're mad about, and doing something about it sounds like a great idea to be honest. The fact that we, like you mentioned, are repeating ourselves kind of reinforces that. Something is still a problem, so we should remind them that the problem is still there ya know?

MrBuffington1 votes

I'm more talking about people still caught over the fact that the League and IoW are no longer canon. That decision has already been set in stone, while I agree that Rioters could potentially pop in those threads to explain the position again, it just seems like a broken record to me.

I've seen a couple other threads (like this one about Fiddlesticks ) that actually offers a point to talk about (what happens to Fiddlesticks now that the IoW is gone), instead of just butting heads about something that's long gone. According to this comment, the changes might not even be in the control of the Narrative team; no point in harassing them if their hands are as tied as ours.

There are better ways to provide feedback. Honestly I would support a lot of these threads if they just had a more level headed approach. Everyone tilts, it happens to the best of us, but the amount of vitriol I see slung Riot's way on a daily basis is exactly the reason LoL has a reputation of having one of the worst communities.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

I'm more talking about people still caught over the fact that the League and IoW are no longer canon.

And so far they did not provide any legitimately reasonable argument for doing so. If they could justify they´re actions with more than "because we felt like, trust us, suckers!" you´d see a lot of other discussions. But they avoided any response to very level headed and constructive criticism from the very start, because they obviously have no answer that can justify what they have done. It´s about the thing that worries me most about our time that people have unlearnt to question authority and just accept weak arguments instead of looking at them and see them for what they are.

MrBuffington1 votes

And again, all I see in your comment is you ignoring my comment that this might not be in their control. Again, all I see is your comment loaded with unsubstantiated claims. It's about the thing that worries me that people have learned to conflate arguments they disagree with, with bad arguments. Riots main position on this issue is that summoners limit storytelling. This is absolutely true, you can't deny that. Every story must tie in to the IoW in some way, that's a limit on storytelling. Can they work with that? Obviously, they've been doing it for years. Factions has been doing it for years. That doesn't change the fact that every story is spoiled before it starts, it always comes back to the IoW. The purpose of the change was to give a richer understanding of Runeterra, something that's difficult to do when the IoW was necessecarily the prime focus. How do you become fully invested in the Shurima event when it is naturally secondary, when the conflict is just a sub plot in the larger context of the IoW? Now, can they do more with Shurima? Yes, I personally was left wanting more. But that's not what's at issue here. Can Riot do more to communicate about lore? Yes, they themselves have admitted to that, and from what I've seen they've been doing better, importantly though, with the threads that allow them to contribute But when you have a thread that says "hey riot is stupid, I can do their job better than they can", what is there to discuss? It's just a toxic thread.

DG Ashabel6 votes

Every story in the Game of Thrones has to do with Westeros and the Iron Throne in some way. It limits storytelling and is spoiled before it starts.

Every story in X-Men has to do with mutants in some way. It limits storytelling and is spoiled before it starts.

Every story in StarCraft has to do with space in some way. It limits storytelling and is spoiled before it starts.

Every story in Tomb Raider has to do with archaeology in some way. It limits storytelling and is spoiled before it starts.

Should I continue or do you now realize why your argument was born crippled?

MrBuffington2 votes

...you've done nothing to disprove my argument, only offered other examples that actually support it. What I think you're trying to suggest is that a limitation on a story does not make for poor storytelling, which I agree with. Storytelling is all about choosing which limitations your story has. That's the key difference. (I will save Game of Thrones for last since it's the most interesting of the examples you provided. Also note that I will mention some minor spoilers unless you are caught up with the show).

X-Men deals with mutants; that's a premise in the story. Yes it's a limitation as well, but it's something that ALL the characters necessarily relate with; they are all mutants. A key difference is that there is room to expand on; their being mutants has little bearing on where they go from there. The institute of war literally froze time, stopped any story from progressing unless it happened directly with the institute. Sure, there were some examples of champions trying to work around the institute, but how many times can you tell that story? The limitation for LoL is practically a dead end, where with X-Men, it's just the beginning.

Starcraft has to do with space; that's just the setting of the story. It's like saying that LoL has to do with Runeterra; obviously it does. Sure, it limits the story; I don't expect to hear stories about Kerrigan when I'm playing LoL, but, as with your X-Men examples, it's only the beginning, it opens up potential routes for story telling, like the IoW used to. Again, how many times can you tell the same story?

Tomb Raider is the same thing as your X-Men and Starcraft examples.

Game of Thrones is an interesting example. The Iron Throne and its relationship to the characters is a limit, undoubtedly, the key difference between Game of Thrones and LoL is that this is what the story is about. I don't get to hear an origin story of Khal Drogo because he's a minor character; all that matters is his relationship to the Iron Throne (through Khaleesi). The institute of war cast itself as the central character, with some having more claim to it than others (like how certain characters in GoT have more claim to the throne than others). How unsatisfying is it for a Rammus main to know that he doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, because the real conflict in LoL is between the IoW and Demacia/Noxus? What about the Void? Oh yea, that's just a thing that certain minor characters come from, Ionia is where the real story happens. Champions in LoL are given equal footing; there's a reason that little yordle girl Tristana can go toe-to-toe with badass demon slayer Vayne.

Another interesting point about Game of Thrones is that the Iron throne isn't actually central to the story; it's the belief of certain characters that the iron throne is central is an important fact. That's why you have certain characters that are completely caught up with the Iron Throne and can still have stories about Bran wandering around in the North. That's where you get those awesome conversations between Varys and LittleFinger about power, how it's an illusion, etc. What really seems to be a limiter/premise to Game of Thrones is the larger conflict between the White Walkers and the Lord of Light (or rather, the people that follow them or are subjected to them, hence the name "A Song of Ice and Fire"), but this is different because this isn't clear. That last bit is just speculation on my part; throughout the show you're given hints that something bigger is about to happen, but you don't know what that is. This builds suspense, and curiosity. Another difference is that this is the end of a story; the IoW is a conclusion (a solution) to the problems and conflicts between nations, yet it's treated as expository.

Earl Eulrich4 votes

So what you are saying is that it´s ridiculous that a game called "League of Legends" tells you a story about the...League of Legends? Maybe I should start a seance and ask Tolkien why he didn´t tell a story about Orks fighting Spacemarines when he wrote "The Lord of the Rings", that whole ring-theme really limited his story-telling a lot and left almost no room to explore the universe he created (well except for you know...the most part of the books). You are twisting the excisting Lore around to form an argument that doesn´t exist (while hyping a medicore series-plot as if it would be in a league with the likes of "infinite jest").

MrBuffington1 votes

Again, you're completely ignoring my point that a story is about choosing which limitations apply to your story. Of course Tolkien didn't write about Spacemarines; his story takes place in Middle Earth, that's a limitation he chose so that he could explore Middle Earth without having to write about random Spacemarines showing up.

What I'm saying is that Riot wrote themselves into a corner with the League of Legends. Here's the difference between League of Legends (the game) and other stories; other stories end, League of Legends (theoretically) does not.

The original story, that everyone was at war and the Institute stepped in to stop it all, that's all fine and good as a story, but that story ends. Here's the thing about the Institute of War; either everyone has to abide by it indefinitely, or attempt to overthrow it. The former I have discussed already leads to a dead end, but so does the latter. Every attempt to overthrow or defy the League of Legends must necessarily fail. If I'm supposed to be a Summoner in the game, and Jinx gets fed up with my crap and blows up the Institute of War, what the hell am I doing still playing the game? It no longer exists, the Institute of War is blown up.

EDIT: You can make an argument about stories that theoretically don't end, or continue indefinitely, like Superman; Superman meets new bad guy, Superman struggles to fight bad guy, Superman wins. It's fairly formulaic, yes, but does it make for bad stories? Arguably no. Similar stories, for example Lord of The Rings that you brought up, have clear endings, and become about the character's struggles more so than the overarching conflict. This is what LoL used to and probably could still be about. The difference here is that in LoTR and Superman, the main characters can succeed. The story is uplifting, hopeful. We all know that LoL is trying to continue forever; it's a game that's made to be updated constantly, to have no clear end. There's not going to be a LoL2, they'll just update the game to whatever that would be. As I said before, attempts to overthrow the IoW must fail, and what is the story about then? The futility of struggle against a larger power? I didn't realize LoL was so nihilistic.

EDIT2: I agree Riot could do a better job communicating all of this. It would save me a lot of work. This is all stuff that I reasoned from what limited comments and explanations they've made, though, this isn't something that's mysterious, they've talked about this stuff before. My whole overarching point is that there are reasons for what they are doing, and they have talked about them.

Dotintheparadox4 votes

I'm more talking about people still caught over the fact that the League and IoW are no longer canon. That decision has already been set in stone

The fact they even did the retcon proves, it's not "Set in stone", they're just too stubborn to admit they did something the community did not like, and change it back. Lore is easily the most simple thing to change in a video-game, especially if it's a change in words only. There is still nothing that's happened that has truly de-canonized the institute in any actual writing, or cinematics. They are obviously going slash and burn on the lore now, because these are not the people who started it. These are the people who were brought in recently, and they have no idea how to even cope with an actual community that can criticize, and sometimes even come up with better ideas than them.

It's all just an idiotic power-play by this point, they don't want the old community, due to it's history of lashing back. So, they're probably trying to piss us off so much that we just abandon the lore altogether. That's not going to happen.

MrBuffington1 votes

It's all just an idiotic power-play by this point, they don't want the old community, due to it's history of lashing back. So, they're probably trying to piss us off so much that we just abandon the lore altogether

...how does that make sense? The community has a history of resisting change, so in order to get rid of it, they decide to enact a huge change?

Dotintheparadox2 votes

They make a huge change, thinking it will actually deter the old supporters, and then they try to ignore the back-lash from those who remain, thinking it's just going to go away. It's a really poorly planned power-play, but still a power-play. They want to seem like they're in control of all of this, by ignoring it, they're essentially climate-change deniers now.

MrBuffington1 votes

I don't see where you're inferring this from

Dotintheparadox1 votes

If you can't see it for yourself, I can't do anything to rectify that.

MrBuffington1 votes

lol ok

DG Ashabel4 votes

It's a fairly standard move among large game publishers. Rock Paper Shotgun published a fairly nice article on it back in the day.

The idea is that you push out a change that is convenient (by the means of requiring less effort) and profitable (by the means of being attractive to a new audience) to you regardless of how it affects the established playerbase, then bury your head in the sand and either completely ignore the backlash or regurgitate statements that don't actually address the problems, but you pretend that they do. Eventually the community will complain itself out and either accept the change or leave, and you're left with your change in place and profits from the new audience without lifting a finger.

It's an inherently toxic and anti-customer move, but large corporations love the shit out of it. Especially massive game publishers do.

MrBuffington1 votes

Okay, I don't see how this change requires less effort. The vast majority of the champion base now requires new lore; they could have just continued with the streak of making champions that have little to no explicit connection to the IoW and just forget about it, or just make half-assed connections to the IoW (it isn't hard), instead of doing a massive overhaul of all of their lore.

The article you posted just seems to be about using silence as a method of damage control. I'm not sure that applies in this case; I saw a lot of Red activity in the first threads when the change was first announced; most of the threads I've seen since talk about the exact same thing as those first threads, Reds have little left to discuss without simply repeating everything they've already said.

For the most part, these threads don't seem to want an actual discussion with Riot, they just want to get their way. Other threads have surfaced that actually try to progress the discussion and have had a lot of Red response, like that Fiddlesticks thread I mentioned before, or the threads about Azir and Xerath lore (where there was critical feedback about both stories, which Reds still addressed).

DG Ashabel4 votes

Really? You don't see how that applies to this situation?

Have you ever seen a Red respond to any actual questions concerning the retcon on these boards?

Have you ever seen them continue a conversation after asking a pointed question about a major lore event such as the Noxian-Ionian War or the Kalamanda Conspiracy?

Have you ever seen them discuss characters on a level beyond teasers such as "Oh Fiddlesticks is in the works and he's gonna be spooky." or "We swear Ashe is getting new content Soon (tm) and it won't make her such an embarrassment anymore"?

The answer is no. You wouldn't. I have engaged Reds on these boards multiple times with actual questions and feedback, plenty of which hasn't been as tersely worded as that of other people. I've been chatting with a Red about how to update Lee Sin into the new story and he dropped the thread like a hot potato the moment I brought up a lore event he didn't have an answer for. I've seen a post made to discuss how to reboot characters who were heavily tied to the Institute where every single question about the lore's new direction went unanswered, thus making people incapable of providing decent feedback. And I've seen dozens of questions other than the Fiddlesticks teaser ignored.

Rioters are showing up on the boards, yes, but they do not actually answer anything related to the issues that have people up in arms beyond regurgitating the same five points that were already debunked. They're simply blowing off every question inconvenient to them in hopes that we'll finally get tired of asking them. It's the very definition of The Silence.

MrBuffington1 votes

Have you ever seen a Red respond to any actual questions concerning the retcon on these boards?

Yep, have you read the first few threads and the initial reveal?

Have you ever seen them continue a conversation after asking a pointed question about a major lore event such as the Noxian-Ionian War or the Kalamanda Conspiracy?

I wasn't around when these events occurred, so not for these particular events.

Have you ever seen them discuss characters on a level beyond teasers such as "Oh Fiddlesticks is in the works and he's gonna be spooky." or "We swear Ashe is getting new content Soon (tm) and it won't make her such an embarrassment anymore"?

Yep, have you seen the threads about Poppy and Taric?

What seems to be the expectation is that every rioter patrols the Boards constantly. From what I understand, most teams have a handful of people who occasionally represent them on Boards in the bits of spare time they have when not working on the game. There are I think 1600+ employees at riot and I've probably seen under 50 unique rioters on Boards, not counting interns. It's common that a particular red simply doesn't have the expertise on a topic, you see response to the fiddlesticks thread since the community representative is also the person working on him.

I don't see where people get these theories about riot pulling a "power play", if you look how other companies treat their customers, believe me it would be a lot worse.

DG Ashabel3 votes

Yep, have you read the first few threads and the initial reveal?

You seem to have missed "they do not actually answer anything related to the issues that have people up in arms beyond regurgitating the same five points that were already debunked", thus making me wonder if you've actually read my post or the RPS article which explains why such posts are more harmful than useful.

Yep, have you seen the threads about Poppy and Taric?

The person behind those threads isn't even on the narrative team, he's a character designer. He's not here to ask about the story, he's here to gather feedback for visual updates.

The rest of what you say is mostly speculation as to why every single Rioter on these boards failed to give answers to the exact same questions. If one did assume that your theory about them lacking expertise is true, that would indicate none of the narrative team has any expertise in major historical events of the story they're writing.

To put it bluntly, you're still defending toxic anti-consumer practices here.

MrBuffington1 votes

I don't see that as anything other than Riot making their position clear. I agree that communication hasn't been perfect, but if people can't move past a change, what can you do besides reiterate what you've already said? This issue is about lore, it's more art than anything, there's no objective truth to the matter. Do you think fans who complain to George RR Martin have any impact on how he tells his story? It's their creative right to tell the story they want to. They made their reasons for why they want to make the change, why they think it's better. We don't have insight on everything they're working on, we're not in a position to say whether the decision was better in the long run.

We aren't entitled to creative control of this game, honestly coming from other game communities, it's surprising to me that Riot includes the community at all. Again I agree they have room to improve, but it's not so dramatic as everyone is making it out to be

Earl Eulrich1 votes

I don't see that as anything other than Riot making their position clear

Well that´s the problem...they make their position clear through actions and repeating them over and over - but not through actual argumentation. So it´s all just hole phrases, no content...politics proves this works on a lot of people actually, but fortunately not on all. Some people want to be convinced by actual arguments and otherways we´ll remain very sceptic.

MrBuffington1 votes

Well that's the difference, I think, this is a creative process, not a legal dispute. The retcon didn't happen on a whim, the fact that they've stated they have stuff planned, the fact that they're expanding the company, hiring people to work on other games leads me to believe there is a huge plan down the road that we can't fairly evaluate unless we're in on the process, which would spoil any surprises they have for us, or we're from the future. Like I said in our other discussion, we can criticize their decision later when we have an actual look at the purpose for them, maybe the retcon wasn't necessary, we just don't know right now. I'm skeptical about the changes too, I'm curious to see where they take the story, if the retcon was actually necessary, because I simply don't know and am not inventing conspiracy theories to fill that lack of knowledge.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

Like I said in our other discussion, we can criticize their decision later when we have an actual look at the purpose for them

Well, if you start criticising after everything is sa(i)d and done you may be right, but you cannot stop the wrong/bad thing from happening anymore, as it has already happened by then.

MrBuffington1 votes

That's true, but that's the case for every decision, you don't know the full outcome when you first make it. The difference I see is that we can afford to wait on this issue, there's nothing life threatening here. When they say it's set in stone, I'm sure they just mean "for now, with the current plans we have". I agree the retcon was unnecessary for the game we have now, it's been fine with the lore, no reason to change it. What we don't know is if the retcon was necessary for the game as it will be years down the road. Maybe Riot doesn't have an answer because it involves spoiling all the stuff they're working on.

Sneak Dog2 votes

You can bring about your reasoning to why you changed it. Riot barely did it, I haven't seen *their *arguments as to why retconning it out was the best course of action. Just that it was limiting, but of course it is, doesn't mean it's bad...

MrBuffington1 votes

Yea, a lot of what I've been writing is me filling in the gaps with what I've seen from Riot. I agree they could do a better job communicating, Riot agrees they can do a better job as well, but I can see a lot of potential reasons for Riot's course of action in general, most of all that it helps open some doors for future projects and games, etc. I don't think it's fair to criticize this decision unless we have a whole picture, which we don't since Riot hasn't revealed everything that's come from this decision yet.

My best guess is that the IoW makes sense in LoL as it is now, but doesn't with what the whole Runeterra universe will be a few years down the road, and Riot can't talk too much about it without spoiling the new stuff to come ("Why is the retcon necessary?" Rito: "Oh because it makes more sense with X project we're introducing next year because of Y reasons"). If that turns out to be wrong and Runeterra would be better with the IoW even with all the new stuff they bring in, we can criticize that then, we just don't know yet.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

Great article by RPS, unfortunatelly really hitting it right there. Though this is just the same in politics...if you don´t give statements about sth. long enough the worlds will keep turning and other issues will be burying the old ones (being German I can tell you that our current Chancellor is in office since 2005 and I cannot even tell you about 2Issues she made an effort with. But well, she´s in Power since 10years, all with exactly that tactic - and the utterly frustrating thing is, that even after 10Years it still works percectly as her high popularity proves. Seems not investing in Education is somewhat paying off *sigh*).

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