It sounds to me like Riot doesn't give a sh!t about the lore in League because it doesn't bring in big bucks. As a result, the writers are probably paid minimum wage or thereabouts, and thus they do less than a half-assed job.
Tech issues? I don't think we believe you anymore when you guys say that. I'd say it's more likely "GIVE US OUR PAYCHEQUES!!!"
DJ Hatsune Miku8 votesI still think the new lore is an executive decision to sell more crazy champs or reduce the size of a department that doesn't directly make money. I can't think of another reason why the lore is like it is because a respectable creative writing professional should be embarrassed with the stuff coming out recently.
DG Ashabel7 votesIt's honestly less them not being paid enough and more them not giving a shit. Writers and narrative designers have never been taken seriously in the game industry. There is this bonkers stereotype that unless you can provide a string of code or some "hard" (read - visual or audio) art assets, you are completely useless. It's been proven to be false time and time again with games like Planescape, Pillars of Eternity, Half-Life, Okami and Bayonetta, yet the developers are still convinced that writers are just someone who puts flavorful text into the game.
Unfortunately, because of that, the industry has given spawn to precisely those kinds of people - ones who will write some flavorful text on a napkin and laugh their way to the bank, pretending that they're actually doing work that enhances the game. I'm not saying that is exactly how League's writers are, but that is certainly how they present themselves to be.
Another major issue is that department-driven structure of large companies like Riot is detrimental to writers, who are often simply not allowed to influence the visual and gameplay design. Okami, Bayonetta and Bioshock blissfully went around that by having the director do all the writing and world-building, but it's often very hard to actually be allowed to change things unless you're a project lead.
So really, it's a combination of writers who either don't care or aren't allowed to change things even if they do care, compounded with a stereotypical dumbass marketing team and what looks like very bad management on Riot's part (let's be honest, no team with their amount of resources should have all the content release consistency of a coop filled with zombie chickens).
pWasHere2 votesI do t really think people play Okami or Bayonetta for the story.
DG Ashabel4 votesRegardless of the reasons you played them for, both games were highly praised for good writing. You cannot really claim that the games would still have the same amount of charm if they weren't cleverly written, or if their story was as heavily divorced from gameplay as League's currently is. In fact, one of the most common praises for all those games' narrative is that the player can do every move shown in the cutscenes, something that doesn't apply to League of Legends at all.
pWasHere1 votesThat isn't really an argument you can apply to a moba. We are comparing apples and tuna right now.
DG Ashabel5 votesNo, that really is an argument you can apply to a MOBA or any other competitive genre.
Fighting games are a mainly competitive genre designed for arcade tournaments. A major part of their sales comes from well-realized campaign modes, with Mortal Kombat being a particularly good example because it started selling like hotcakes because of good narrative (in fact, both sales and critical reception rose considerably since MK became more story-focused). BlazBlue, which always includes a lot of narrative fluff, sells hundreds of thousands of copies. Darkstalkers Resurrection, which focused purely on the competitive side, flopped embarrassingly.
Team Fortress 2 is arguably a MOBA; a major part of its following comes from story updates and how they tie into gameplay updates. DOTA2 is definitely a MOBA; it has been getting more attention ever since it started sneaking more lore into the game. Battleborne, Gearbox's upcoming MOBA, has been getting a lot of positive reception because it has a campaign mode. Dawngate was praised for heavily integrating lore into the game; while you could argue that it got canceled, the truth is that its cancellation had nothing to do with the game's quality and everything with EA themselves being in financial trouble.
And on the topic cutscene-to-gameplay transition - I hope you realize that League is the only major MOBA where cutscenes don't match the gameplay. DOTA2, Dawngate, Smite, STRIFE all have characters use their in-game abilities during the story sequences.
pWasHere2 votesF2P mobas garner new players mainly on word of mouth. Fighting games have and initial price so they require the interest that lore might draw. An f2p game only requires something a friend would recommend. People don't recommend games based on lore, they might as well recommend a book. Maybe atmosphere, but not lore.
I know very little about TF2 but I have never heard anything about lore from my friends who play it. Dota 2 has gotten more attention due to large competitions and GAMEPLAY updates that happen to have lore with them. Battleborn afaik isnt going to be f2p so it doesn't fall within the same category. It isn't even out yet so it's hard for me to take it as a good example when it could flop. Smite has lore that writes itself. Dawngate was cancelled because it didn't draw enough players from games with worse lore, like LoL. Otherwise it would still exist. Strife doesn't seem all that popular to me.
The thing I have noticed is that LoL seems to be the only. Moba with multiple CGI cutscenes released. This isn't coincidental. They are the only moba with enough income to sign on such extras
Nybx4life2 votesThing is... Animation, especially of the 3-d kind, costs a huge amount of money to put up. Last company I've known to release multiple CGI animations was Blizzard, who had the top MMO for years. Many games do the job with far less, and Blizzard doesn't have critics pointing out its lack of lore.
Team Fortress 2 has multiple "Meet the Team" animations for each member, and a few others. Alongside that, they have comics that tie in story to the game. It is tertiary and unneeded to enjoy the game, but the fact that it's there and it's quality shows that they give a damn about their work. Otherwise, TF2 would be no better than Counter Strike.
I point these out because I feel Riot is squandering its resources, talents, and potential. They have the money to pile on lore with the same volume as Final Fantasy (not quality, just amount) or other RPGs. They have the money to place more servers around the country and in other countries that didn't have any before. But it's the fact that they haven't is what annoys me.
DG Ashabel5 votesF2P mobas garner new players mainly on word of mouth. Fighting games have and initial price so they require the interest that lore might draw. An f2p game only requires something a friend would recommend.
Fighting games began as arcade hall entertainment. They had the initial price of one-two quarters. The reason why fighting games evolved the way they did is because arcade halls are an inherently noisy place and you needed a game that had the most memorable art and most charismatic characters to keep people coming back. Lore therefore was important because you needed to pull every move to get people invested in the franchise.
People don't recommend games based on lore, they might as well recommend a book. Maybe atmosphere, but not lore.
So what you're saying is that you didn't actually read anything I've written. Why are you still trying to uphold a debate if I'm talking to a wall, then?
I know very little about TF2 but I have never heard anything about lore from my friends who play it.
Maybe because you didn't actually talk to them about TF2? A major part of TF2 culture is the jokes and memes that arise from its hilariously over-the-top story, which has incidentally been connected to every gameplay update so far.
Dota 2 has gotten more attention due to large competitions and GAMEPLAY updates that happen to have lore with them.
Yeah, because webcomics and narrative trailers did absolutely nothing to attract more casual players, which are the meat of the game (the number of people who watch competitive events in MOBAs is like, 20% of the actual playerbase, last I checked).
Battleborn afaik isnt going to be f2p so it doesn't fall within the same category. It isn't even out yet so it's hard for me to take it as a good example when it could flop.
Doesn't change that it changed a lot of its initial response from negative to positive by having a campaign.
Smite has lore that writes itself.
Yeah, I'm sure that comic book mini-series just poofed out of the air one day.
Dawngate was cancelled because it didn't draw enough players from games with worse lore, like LoL. Otherwise it would still exist.
Discounting their sports games, Electronic Arts released eight games during the last two years. Six of them were massive commercial flops. You might have missed it, but they actually shut down multiple studios (including the legendary Maxis) and canceled every major project except Mass Effect 4 and Star Wars (which they are contractually obligated to work on).
So no, it's pretty common knowledge that cancelling Dawngate was part of EA cutting their expenses in every single place they possibly could. They're doing very badly right now.
Strife doesn't seem all that popular to me.
Strife is pretty damn popular for a game that intentionally doesn't have any promotion. Its developers refuse to market the game while it's in beta/early access, so Strife's steady player build-up is a purely word-of-mouth thing.
The thing I have noticed is that LoL seems to be the only. Moba with multiple CGI cutscenes released. This isn't coincidental. They are the only moba with enough income to sign on such extras.
Did I somehow miss the part where DOTA2 magically stopped existing today? Besides, I said story sequences and not CGI cutscenes. Characters in Strife's narrative campaign, Dawngate's webcomic and Smite's comic mini-series all use the exact same abilities during the story that they use in-game, no hyping up necessary.
Anidan3 votes[{quoted}](name=DG Ashabel,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ENOZ2BLe,comment-id=0007000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-04-13T16:25:47.493+0000)
Discounting their sports games, Electronic Arts released eight games during the last two years. Six of them were massive commercial flops. You might have missed it, but they actually shut down multiple studios (including the legendary Maxis) and canceled every major project except Mass Effect 4 and Star Wars (which they are contractually obligated to work on).
So no, it's pretty common knowledge that cancelling Dawngate was part of EA cutting their expenses in every single place they possibly could. They're doing very badly right now.
If it wasn't for the fact that I like a couple of the studios that EA is parasitizing, I'd love that news so much more.
I really don't like the Unicron of the gaming industry.
Sorry, that's a digression, I'd suppose. If you'd prefer I say something on topic, if you care as much, I actually wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying. I prefer DotA2 myself, and try to keep up with whatever League does since I still enjoy it (that and the sunk cost fallacy is too strong), but from my time with both: DotA2 is doing much more with lore lately. I know there's supposed "tech issues" but are you really going to tell us you can't put the lore in a placeholder location? The site exists for a reason - you can put it there. Tech issues certainly didn't stop them from putting the incredibly small and vague lores on the website or client. And even then, are tech issues really justification for half-assing anything?
A big part of my problem with Riot's Lore team is that they fear the anger and vitriol of the community, which causes them to hide away, which causes more angry and vitriolic discussions -- the worst kind of self-fulfilling prophecy. They'd catch much less flak by actually talking to us than they would by continually keeping us in the dark.
rebound26 votesRiot has lore writers?
Tell me more.
FreeLanternRides4 votesRiot has taken a massive dive in the lore department i used to love reading them now i don't even look at them because it tells me nothing more than the champions name and where he/she hails from
Champion Skin8 votes
is an angry creature guardian some mysterious entrance in the deserts of Shurima
I miss my kind lore
Pikmints2 votesI'm using that from now on. That's good.
Impetual2 votesMuch as I'd like to disagree with you, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.
GenoXx3 votesWell, that is the case. Lore doesnt bring in money and that's why it's not being expanded on. Not as big as something like urf or uhhhh....idk.. Omega Squad teemo skin?
SecretAgentHulk2 votesIt sounds to me like Riot doesn't give a sh!t about the lore in League because it doesn't bring in big bucks. As a result, the writers are probably paid minimum wage or thereabouts, and thus they do less than a half-assed job.
I call bullshit.
ZeichiVos1 votesAs someone who works full time min wage, I'll happily say that that's no excuse to half-ass your job. If you're not there to put in your best, move over and give your job to someone who'd happily take your place.
Narasimha1 votesI think you're slightly missing the point. Its not that they're not doing their job as part of the lore team. Its more likely they're not doing their job to make new lore. They're probably all being shuffled into other areas, like new champions and upcoming events.
Impetual1 votesLol, I doubt Riot pays their lore writers minimum wage, but based on their performance, they probably should.
SeductiveGrandpa1 votesLa-Da-De-Dum~ This is the third one i've seen today La-Da-De-Dum~ whenever a thread like this is posted, they probably move it back a day La-Da-De-Dum~ for lore you're just gonna have to wait~ La-Da-De-Dum~ Its Just Not Coming Out Today~(TM)
