The Thematic of Garen's Ult

Natake·Aug 22, 2017·2 votes·2,168 views

I dunno, on the one hand, his ult is very satisfying, and fits the character well in terms of gameplay, synergy, and personality, but having it be a super extreme magic attack seems weird.

I think before the lore update, it was weird that it didn't scale with AP, but now that we know about Garen's distaste for magic it makes perfect sense why he won't buy mage items, so that fits really well at least.

But a super magical execute seems like something Garen wouldn't use now, but I also don't want it to go away.

16 Comments

GreenLoreAug 22, 20174 votes

I imagine that his ult is either noncanon or that it is actually going to be an important plot point for Garens story. After all it would be interesting to see Garen turning out to be able to use magic himself and how he'd deal with that kind of stuff.

Beyond LegendsAug 22, 20172 votes

It would be an intresting plot point too, since we do know that crownguard lineage might have magical roots in them. It would be nice for a future story is garen accidently realease his ult when fighting katarina. I mean it I can literally think of thousands of interesting plot point this could go in.

Critmaster GarenAug 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E4QB2ntb,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-08-22T23:56:40.989+0000)

It would be an intresting plot point too, since we do know that crownguard lineage might have magical roots in them. It would be nice for a future story is garen accidently realease his ult when fighting katarina. I mean it I can literally think of thousands of interesting plot point this could go in.

id love to see it being used as a plot point. though that ult would probably kill kat, and id rather see some more character development in crossover stories between them.

its been pretty much canon for a while now that they have a love/rivalry relationship, with multiple champion quotes and even splash arts referencing them.

i think it would be interesting if she was the one witnissing the ult when it happens for the first time and shed actually be the only one who even knows about garen having innate magic abilities.

Warlord DienekesAug 22, 20173 votes

I believe a year ago the lore guys said that the game and the story have become pretty blatantly separated. Malphite is the size of the entire rift, Sol would not be able to be hurt by the majority of the champions, and Garen's ult is just a gameplay construct that has no baring on the actual character.

Personally I'm not really a fan of that decision, even if I understand why they did it.

HonestJohnTheConAug 23, 20172 votes

I always thought that Garen's ultimate wasn't actually a sword falling from out of the sky in the actual universe. I thought that it was instead just an ultra-powerful strike fueled by justice, kinda just a normal finishing blow.

I thought that Garen's giant sword was either for gameplay clarity or it was added as a metaphor for a superpowered hit.

A similar example is Jarvan's Cataclysm. It's not magic that's caused the rock around him to shoot up, it's just a really powerful attack.

NatakeAug 24, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I always thought that Garen's ultimate wasn't actually a sword falling from out of the sky in the actual universe. I thought that it was instead just an ultra-powerful strike fueled by justice, kinda just a normal finishing blow.

I thought that Garen's giant sword was either for gameplay clarity or it was added as a metaphor for a superpowered hit.

A similar example is Jarvan's Cataclysm. It's not magic that's caused the rock around him to shoot up, it's just a really powerful attack.

See, I considered that but unlike Cataclysm, Garen's ult does real magic damage instead of physical damage.

Beas7ieAug 22, 20171 votes

It makes zero sense with Demacias all of a sudden "antimagic stance". For years Garens ult has literally been summoning a hugeass sword out of the sky!?

The better thing to do would be to change Demacias lore to where theyre a bit more open to magic, but still wary and careful with using it.

GreenLoreAug 22, 20171 votes

{quoted} The better thing to do would be to change Demacias lore to where theyre a bit more open to magic, but still wary and careful with using it.

I don't think that this is the better thing to do. The new demacia lore is pretty much built upon demacias antimagic stance,so if they changed that again,then it would honestly cause a huge shift in tone(especially for the lores of Lux and Galio).

Beas7ieAug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't think that this is the better thing to do. The new demacia lore is pretty much built upon demacias antimagic stance,so if they changed that again,then it would honestly cause a huge shift in tone(especially for the lores of Lux and Galio).

They ALREADY caused a huge shift in tone when they went and fucked up the lore in the first place. With this at least, they can make at least make a bit of sense and not have to do TOO MUCH with Lux and Galio and whoever.

Garen and most other soldiers are still a bit wary of Lux and her magic.

Galio can still be that sentinal colossus thing that only activates or whatever during cases of HEAVY magic use. Or whenever he needs to fight in match or whatever. How the hell do they explain that now? Especially since they went and were like "Hey you know the whole summoners thing and the hall of justice and how the main purpose of the League was for these different factions to have a way to solve some of their differences WITHOUT wrecking the world with constant wars. Well fuck all that we're just wiping it."

Beyond LegendsAug 23, 20171 votes

Do you want a tirade about why summoners rift was removed? Perhaps it's a wise idea to pin a post regarding that since people seem to repeately forget why Institude of war is removed in the first place.

Also please tell me how demacia lore doesn't make sense again? I would gladly like to hear you subjective rant about how the new lore doesn't matcj your belief.

Beas7ieAug 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E4QB2ntb,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-23T03:36:46.554+0000)

Do you want a tirade about why summoners rift was removed? Perhaps it's a wise idea to pin a post regarding that since people seem to repeately forget why Institude of war is removed in the first place.

Also please tell me how demacia lore doesn't make sense again? I would gladly like to hear you subjective rant about how the new lore doesn't matcj your belief.

It's not just my beliefs. I quite remember most of the lore changes being pretty unpopular and the changes they made are possibly the biggest retcons ever. There is a reason why most writers of ANY franchise will go to great lengths to avoid retcons if they can. And that's even pretty "minor ones" like making a Star Destroyer 100 feet longer because reasons.

I haven't been keeping up with all the new lore since I have a lot to catch up on after playing again this summer after not playing for a year. What I DO remember and enjoyed was that there was a REASON for the SR and a reason for the League and the individual champs had their own goals and motives for agreeing to to join the league and work with these summoners. I enjoyed the original events they had like Ionia vs Noxus and the Ionian team won (Guardsman Bob really tore it up as Udyr) and they worked that into the lore and making an actual item in the game off that.

Now it's been completely abolished and in the lore it's what? Everyone just does their own thing in their own lands and occassionally they'll get a few of their buddies and be like "Hey guys lets go to this spot with a little river and towers and and see if we can destroy the nexus"? What's the purpose now!?

Really, what is the purpose now? I know they removed the institute and made huge changes like Demacia is all anti magic except for their black ops mage platoon or whatever and the head Royal Guard who summons giant ass swords as his ultimate but really what IS the lore reason for these games now?

Now it just seems to be all LC$ e$ports.

Beyond LegendsAug 23, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's not just my beliefs. I quite remember most of the lore changes being pretty unpopular and the changes they made are possibly the biggest retcons ever. There is a reason why most writers of ANY franchise will go to great lengths to avoid retcons if they can. And that's even pretty "minor ones" like making a Star Destroyer 100 feet longer because reasons.

How many times have DC and Marvel retcon itselves now?

Also the league didn't do retcon but more of a rebuild of the entire league universe, which is not uncommon at all if you look at hollywood.

Also the retcon was only unpopular at the begnning because Riot didn't have a replacements ready when the announce they were rebuilding the universe from scratch. The new lore is very well recieved, despite the the minor vocal amount of haters it gets.

I haven't been keeping up with all the new lore since I have a lot to catch up on after playing again this summer after not playing for a year. What I DO remember and enjoyed was that there was a REASON for the SR and a reason for the League and the individual champs had their own goals and motives for agreeing to to join the league and work with these summoners. I enjoyed the original events they had like Ionia vs Noxus and the Ionian team won (Guardsman Bob really tore it up as Udyr) and they worked that into the lore and making an actual item in the game off that.

Now it's been completely abolished and in the lore it's what? Everyone just does their own thing in their own lands and occassionally they'll get a few of their buddies and be like "Hey guys lets go to this spot with a little river and towers and and see if we can destroy the nexus"? What's the purpose now!?

Really, what is the purpose now? I know they removed the institute and made huge changes like Demacia is all anti magic except for their black ops mage platoon or whatever and the head Royal Guard who summons giant ass swords as his ultimate but really what IS the lore reason for these games now?

The institude was removed because it was limiting in both story telling and world building. Because the Institude of War was too much of an op hack that made world building insanely hard to do. Any actual conflict was stunted by the summoners because summoner op and if you don't obey you would get locked up or we'll force you against you will to do so. Because without summoners being op to extreme the. why would Garen fight against Jarvan in a arena, or why thresh and lucian work together. Riot hence decided to remove gameplay and lore fron each other.

Also why do you need to a purpose to play league? Do you actually think a out on what important as political conflict you were suppose repersent everytime you open a game of normals or rank?

Now it just seems to be all LC$ e$ports.

....

Beas7ieAug 23, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=E4QB2ntb,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-23T05:03:39.426+0000)

How many times have DC and Marvel retcon itselves now?

Also the league didn't do retcon but more of a rebuild of the entire league universe, which is not uncommon at all if you look at hollywood.

Also the retcon was only unpopular at the begnning because Riot didn't have a replacements ready when the announce they were rebuilding the universe from scratch. The new lore is very well recieved, despite the the minor vocal amount of haters it gets.

The institude was removed because it was limiting in both story telling and world building. Because the Institude of War was too much of an op hack that made world building insanely hard to do. Any actual conflict was stunted by the summoners because summoner op and if you don't obey you would get locked up or we'll force you against you will to do so. Because without summoners being op to extreme the. why would Garen fight against Jarvan in a arena, or why thresh and lucian work together. Riot hence decided to remove gameplay and lore fron each other.

Also why do you need to a purpose to play league? Do you actually think a out on what important as political conflict you were suppose repersent everytime you open a game of normals or rank?

....

Yes, I DO need a purpose to play League as you put it. One of the reasons I enjoy games is for the story. It's great to play a powerful hero and do amazing feats and whatnot, but it becomes quite silly if there's no reason for them to be doing so. I can understand some of the arguments against the institute of lore, but it DID fulfill a purpose. The league was meant to help nations settle disputes and to also provide entertainment. League matches were highly televised(or magicized or however people watched the matches in the world) it just becomes silly that these champs will just randomly meet up for a league match with no purpose.

And if the actual matches themselves aren't even part of the lore anymore, then what's the point? Evidently I'm in the minority now, but I enjoy actually getting IMMERSED in my games. It's fun running around open worlds but ultimately I want my characters to have actual goals they're trying to accomplish and actual reasons for those goals.

If the new lore is "oh that league thing doesn't exist anymore" then Riot might as well try and develop a new type of game that actually fits in the lore.

I'd totally play the shit out of League of Legends: Total War where you get to control armies of characters and being able to have the champs as heroes and generals. Garen doing his "The best way to kill a man is to cut through the guy next to him" thing and then spinning through a group of Noxus soldiers. Monsters like Cho'Gath scaring the fuck out an entire unit and then eatting poor enemies. Jarvan targeting the enemy general and ulting right to him. Xerath being an entire army's worth of artillery sending barrages of magic bolts down on the enemy.

GreenLoreAug 23, 20171 votes

And now you want them to change stuff again? Honestly the lore team has managed to rebuild some trust witht he community after the disaster that was the initial retcon. But if they start retconning their new lore again,then all that is going to get flushed down the toilet,because that would show that even the new lore isn't safe from retcons.

KrabohodAug 23, 20171 votes

Just look at this issue that way: Garen, just like Lux have tendencies to magic. But unlike her he did't train himself to use magic, didn't have teachers. So his magic just kinda frees at the time of stress. I think his Ult is not something he uses very frequently in lore. He use it as super last-second move. Moreover, I think. he does not even realise that he uses magic. I think he just shouts Demacia and hopes for the best