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The next VGU: Do you feel the tremors?

Chembaron Yamada··2 votes·2,182 views

Zoe got released and her team is moving to the next project. This one is going to be a VGU and CertainlyT is going to lead it, as it seems. I want to discuss what I think would be the perfect candidate for this VGU slot, many people probably already know which champion my decision fell on.

I am talking about the glorious armordillo, Rammus! https://lolstatic-a.akamaihd.net/frontpage/apps/prod/shurima-2016/de_DE/c9086fcc7c767c891424c11682e31d1a7635f569/assets/img/champions/rammus/rammus-splash-keyart.png

But why exactly Rammus? There are alot of possible champions for this rework, aren't there? Well, I actually have tons of reason to chose him and I will start to present them to you immediately.

Lore Development Not long time ago, a new champion got added to the roster. Ornn, the forge demigod from Freljord, is delivering a great opportunity to work with Rammus as well. What are the traits of the demigods shown to us in the lore?

  • animal traits (Ornn - Ram, Anivia - Bird, Volibear - Bear)
  • related to a natural element or phenomenon (Ornn - Vulcanoes, Anivia - Blizzards, Volibear - Lightning/Storms)

Rammus fits the criteria! He has obvious traits of an armadillo and seems to be connected to the element earth and earthquakes. Making Rammus the first Shuriman demigod seems like a logical choice here.

Gameplay Development Riot was experimenting with gameplay quite alot in the last time and they implemented alot of stuff that would work perfectly with core identities in his kit.

Camille introduced the new mechanic of AD shields into the game. However, outside of Camille's passive, it isn't represented in any part of the game. Rammus is supposed to be the anti-AD-tank by design, just like Galio was seen as the anti-AP-tank. And what did Galio get with his rework? MR scalings on his skills and a passive AP shield. I expect them to build the AD shield into Rammus' kit in the future.

Additionally, Riot introduced some movementspeed scalings. Warwick's R range, Janna's passive, even runes are scaling with movementspeed now. Is there a part in Rammus' kit, which is iconic and would make sense with some kind of movementspeed scaling? There is: Powerball!

Outdated model and poor skin choices Well, the argument that his in game model is outdated applies to most champions on the tier 1 VGU list, doesn't it? But there is another problem, that is related to it.

Rammus lacks quality skins. Look through his skin choices in the client, he doesn't have a single skin bove the 975 RP threshold! That is poor and unfortunately, I don't see this to change anytime soon as long as he didn't receive his VGU.

Another great candidate for the next VGU slot would be Nunu (HI KILLABURN!), but in this term, Rammus just beats him. Nunu at least has a legendary skin (Robo-Nunu) and another 1350 RP skin, which is pretty high quality in my opinion (Zombie Nunu). Rammus has nothing like that and the only way to tackle that problem in the future is by giving him his rework.

Rammus' Minirework Rammus already received (like many other champs) a minirework. However, did it really hit the mark or is he still a problematic champion? I think it's the latter, I read quite alot that his kit is frustrating for players, his winrate since his minirework skyrocketed and he benefitted hugely from the rune changes.

They definitely have to do about his kit again. May as well give him the full treatment instead of another bandaid.

CertainlyT as the Designer As far as I know, CertainlyT has shown interest in reworking Rammus in the past. Could be that it was his own wish to investigate Rammus another time trying to give him an update.

Another time? Why did I say that? Well, I found this character study page made by a Rioter, who worked on Warwick's VGU as well. It seems that Rammus was already considered for a rework in the next time (why else that study page?). https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/236/322/large/david-ko-4-2-1000.jpg?1442759349 Looking at this study page, the designs seem to fit the demigod direction I discussed as well. He looks much more like a strong earth related deity. My favourite design is that on bottom side far left, btw.

Time of Release It seems likely that the next VGU is going to get released in the summer next year. You know, when it's hot. Talking about hot, are there hot places in Runeterra? Oh, right, Shurima!

Just like it was a great coincidence that Evelynn got released close to Halloween, it would fit thematically pretty well to give us the Rammus rework in the summer time as well as a update for Shurima. This may not be a relevant factor for VGU timing right now, but it still would be a nice thematic touch in my opinion.

Checkboxes for the next VGU Riot has some aspects they look at, which have an influence on who gets the next VGU. Let's discuss some of them.

They try to avoid doubling on roles for the VGUs after each other. The last VGU we know of is Irelia, a top laner. Therefore the next VGU after her shouldn't have top lane as its main position. Since most champions on the tier 1 VGU list are either top or jungle, jungle seems like the most likely position.

  • Rammus? Check!

No doubling on regions after each other. Irelia is from Ionia. So the next VGU shouldn't be from there.

  • Rammus? Check!

Not always reworking dark or edgy champions. They want to put some lighthearted and friendly characters into the mix. The last friendly one was Galio, after him were Urgot, Evelynn, Swain and Irelia. All of them are different levels of dark or edgy, so I think it's time for another friendly champ.

  • Rammus? Check!

For me it seems that he just perfectly fits the bill here.

Maybe this all is just wishful thinking, but in my opinion I was able to list quite alot of good reasons to give Rammus a VGU as soon as possible. Rammus has so much potential, in lore as well as in gameplay, that it would be a shame to postpone him even further.

Do you agree? Can you feel the tremors in the far, announcing the rise of the glorious Shuriman earthquake demigod of OK-ness? Or is all this not relevant and I am just crazy?

Tell me in the comments!

32 Comments

Frontline Fury2 votes

Why would Rammus need it? He is in a really good spot gameplay-wise, so there is absolutely no need for a gameplay update.

His visuals do not look bad at all, either. I’d say Amumu Morgana Nunu Teemo Tryndamere Malphite Udyr deserved VGUs (or at least VUs) before Rammus

Garentheon2 votes

Umm Pantheon

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Rammus is still on the tier 1 VGU list, so it seems that Riot disagrees with him being in a great spot.

Actually, his mini rework still didn't hit the mark for him and they didn't a dress some of the problems why his gameplay is considered outdated, like requiring enemies to attack him to get his full damage potential.

Visually he seems outdated for me as well, additionally there is the problem that he doesn't have a skin above 975 RP, something that most likely won't change before he gets a VGU, which is kinda poor.

Not to mention that he is probably the champion with the least love when it comes to voice lines. All he says is stuff like OK, hm, yeah.

Frozen Diva1 votes

Where can I see this VGU list?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Was posted by a rioter a while back. It got stated that the candidates on that list are still tier 1 even if they get mini reworks.

Nunu and Swain got mini reworks just like Rammus, yet Swain gets reworked next and Nunu is still a strong candidate for the next VGU.

Same for Rammus.

Tomeksz1 votes

I chcecked Rammus champion gg and he is played almost every time in the jungle. Look at champions like Cho or Panth for example and their champion gg profiles, you can clearly see that they are being played both jungle and top.

Frontline Fury1 votes

{quoted}

Rammus is still on the tier 1 VGU list, so it seems that Riot disagrees with him being in a great spot.

Actually, his mini rework still didn't hit the mark for him and they didn't a dress some of the problems why his gameplay is considered outdated, like requiring enemies to attack him to get his full damage potential.

Visually he seems outdated for me as well, additionally there is the problem that he doesn't have a skin above 975 RP, something that most likely won't change before he gets a VGU, which is kinda poor.

Not to mention that he is probably the champion with the least love when it comes to voice lines. All he says is stuff like OK, hm, yeah.

While Rammus' animations are most certainly outdated, i figure the design team struggles just as much as we do with picturing just how you can animate a ball of spikes better than what is currently done.

What do you mean, Rammus doesn't have a skin above 975? Isn't full metal rammus a legendary skin at 1820 RP?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Well, when he gets a VGU, they can change that. Giving him some more interesting animations.

And no, Full Metal Rammus costs 975 RP. He has absolutely no skins coming even close to high quality. And he won't get them until he gets a rework. Even Nunu has skins priced higher than his....

Seba72902 votes

I agree that Rammus needs to get an VGU sometime in the future.

But Nunu and Mordekaiser are much higher priority in my opinion

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Might be true (opinions differ), but I have to point out: The champion with the biggest need of a VGU doesn't automatically get it next.

Look at Urgot. It got stated in the past that Urgot was the champion with the biggest need of a VGU from all of them. More than Warwick and Galio, who both got their VGU before him.

Why was that? Well, the problem is that they have to know in which direction they want to take the champion. They have to come up with a concept, an idea which leads to something great and unique.

They were able to come up with these concepts for Warwick and Galio, but the glorious idea of shotgunknees needed time, they didn't figure out what to do with Urgot back then.

Like I have shown in this thread with some points, alot of base for Rammus' VGU is already there. They already did that character study page with some great design ideas for him. They implemented Ornn and the demigods, which are an obvious choice for Rammus as well, making him the first Shuriman demigod and preserving his earthquake powers. And they have implemented gameplay features in the game like the AD shield and the movementspeed scalings, which are a natural fit for Rammus' kit as well.

What I mean: Even if these 2 are higher priority, maybe they still need concepts for these. Meanwhile all the stuff they did recently add up to a great concept for Rammus already. It is already there, they just have to realise it now. And that's why I think that Rammus will get the VGU first here.

Seba72901 votes

{quoted}

Might be true (opinions differ), but I have to point out: The champion with the biggest need of a VGU doesn't automatically get it next.

Look at Urgot. It got stated in the past that Urgot was the champion with the biggest need of a VGU from all of them. More than Warwick and Galio, who both got their VGU before him.

Why was that? Well, the problem is that they have to know in which direction they want to take the champion. They have to come up with a concept, an idea which leads to something great and unique.

They were able to come up with these concepts for Warwick and Galio, but the glorious idea of shotgunknees needed time, they didn't figure out what to do with Urgot back then.

Like I have shown in this thread with some points, alot of base for Rammus' VGU is already there. They already did that character study page with some great design ideas for him. They implemented Ornn and the demigods, which are an obvious choice for Rammus as well, making him the first Shuriman demigod and preserving his earthquake powers. And they have implemented gameplay features in the game like the AD shield and the movementspeed scalings, which are a natural fit for Rammus' kit as well.

What I mean: Even if these 2 are higher priority, maybe they still need concepts for these. Meanwhile all the stuff they did recently add up to a great concept for Rammus already. It is already there, they just have to realise it now. And that's why I think that Rammus will get the VGU first here.

I can see where you're coming from. I honestly have no idea what they should do with Nunu and Mordekaiser. But Ornn and all the lore that got changed with him feels like it could lead to something bigger. Him being an earth demigod fits perfectly with his theme

Talon121 votes

https://imgur.com/a/qOFb2

If you want to you outdated models as a basis, talk udyr. And as you said, he became very strong after rune changes, meaning he is in a good spot, so riot won't want to change him until be because dull and crappy, but he is still pretty decent atm.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Clearly, you didn't read the thread. I am talking about the next VGU after Irelia. ^^

The one which CertainlyT, after finishing Zoe, is investigating to rework now.

Talon121 votes

And why the fuck would riot give a VGU to a perfectly viable champion, with no major issues, that they have just recently worked on? Despite what the Aatrox being after irelia, just because they don't update his splash it doesn't mean he isnt getting work either, he will have the same splash and a similar model afterwards, but animations and everything will be different anyway, it can be classed as a vgu. Rammus is perfectly fine in his state and doesn't have issues like others do, he may get one yes, but not for a long while yet, your argument is invalid in light of his recent work.

Garentheon1 votes

Don’t get too invested in CertainlyT. They said he just started early ideation and that it’s possible nothing can come out of it

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

I know, just stating that I see alot of reasons why I think that it's Rammus he is currently looking at.

DwarvenGiant1 votes

Actually, my source-full friend, Spideraxe, said on Twitter that that VGU has been locked already a few days ago.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Now that's interesting, do you got a link?

I really hope my conspiracy theory here is right. [sg-soraka]

Garentheon1 votes

People claim things all the time. He hasn’t actually proven himself yet.

Frozen Diva1 votes

Lissandra Lissandra Lissandra ??? Her basic model and that bloodstone skin look outdated. Also her whole kit is outdated. Program Lissandra is lit tho.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Erm. In my opinion, she needs a GU, like Aatrox?

Frozen Diva1 votes

You are probably right.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

I agree that Program Lissandra is great, though. I made another thread asking for more Program skins, maybe you'd like to chime in. :P

LostFr0st1 votes

Volibear [sg-soraka]

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Admitted, he is another candidate and many of the points I put in the argument here apply to him as well. He is a demigod, he is a jungler and so on.

Still, I think that Rammus has the most points of all champs going for him right now. For example: Volibear is another dark, edgy character. But it is time for another fun champion in the VGUs after all this depressive stuff. And there are some gameplay features already in the game which they could use for the Rammus update, like the AD shield and movementspeed scaling. Meanwhile it could be that they don't know what to do with Volibear when it comes to gameplay.

So I still give Rammus the edge. ^^

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

Admitted, he is another candidate and many of the points I put in the argument here apply to him as well. He is a demigod, he is a jungler and so on.

Still, I think that Rammus has the most points of all champs going for him right now.

Rammus got a mini gameplay update in 7.10; Voli has been in the dirt since at least the Cinderhulk double nerf.

For example: Volibear is another dark, edgy character. But it is time for another fun champion in the VGUs after all this depressive stuff.

Voli isn't depressing, he's inspiring and charismatic. I don't think Voli and dark/edgy can even be in the same room. :/

And there are some gameplay features already in the game which they could use for the Rammus update, like the AD shield and movementspeed scaling.

It's almost like they added many of those to Rammus in 7.10...

Meanwhile it could be that they don't know what to do with Volibear when it comes to gameplay.

How do we know that? They've been mentioning Voli on and off for like 2 years now. They know he needs help.

So I still give Rammus the edge. ^^

I disagree.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Rammus got a mini gameplay update in 7.10

Well, Swain got such a mini update in the mage update as well. Didn't stop them from giving him the full VGU as next in line. It's true that Voli was left alone for quite a while now.

Voli isn't depressing, he's inspiring and charismatic. I don't think Voli and dark/edgy can even be in the same room. :/

Did you read about him when Ornn was released? He was involved in Ornn's story. Volibear killed a whole society of people, simply because they were worshipping his brother and he was jealous. He gets pictured as a dark and edgy character there. For further information, read the fifth story here: The Tragedy of the Hearthblood.

It's almost like they added many of those to Rammus in 7.10.

They didn't. Rammus neither does have the AD shield, nor MS scaling. In fact, his minirework was really really small. All they did was changing his passive from a conversation to an on-hit damage based on his armor and adding a slow to his W. The interesting and logical gameplay features I mentioned in my thread, he didn't receive them back then.

How do we know that?

We don't and I never said we do. I said it could be. Meaning that there is a chance that they don't know what to do with Volibear. Meanwhile all components for a Rammus VGU are already there, they just have to put them together.

I disagree.

That's your right. I was just pointing out my opinion and what I base it off here.

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

Well, Swain got such a mini update in the mage update as well. Didn't stop them from giving him the full VGU as next in line. It's true that Voli was left alone for quite a while now.

I don't think Voli and dark/edgy can even be in the same room. :/

I absolutely stand by that claim. I've played Voli; I won't waver on that.

Did you read about him when Ornn was released? He was involved in Ornn's story. Volibear killed a whole society of people, simply because they were worshipping his brother and he was jealous. He gets pictured as a dark and edgy character there. For further information, read the fifth story here: The Tragedy of the Hearthblood.

Real question is: Did you read the reaction of Victor mains when only Jayce's lore was released?

Of course I read Ornn's side already. Pissed me off TBH. Funny how they didn't release Voli's side yet huh.

They didn't. Rammus neither does have the AD shield, nor MS scaling. In fact, his minirework was really really small. All they did was changing his passive from a conversation to an on-hit damage based on his armor and adding a slow to his W. The interesting and logical gameplay features I mentioned in my thread, he didn't receive them back then.

Rammus' MS now scales on his lvl. They also added a slow to his Ulti. Yes I admit I glossed over the AD shield, but to reply to that directly, Rammus has been an AP champ since forever. May I ask why his shield should be AD?

We don't and I never said we do. I said it could be. Meaning that there is a chance that they don't know what to do with Volibear. Meanwhile all components for a Rammus VGU are already there, they just have to put them together.

So basically "They worked on Rammus a bit and adjusted his lore + they have a mockup drawing so BAM Vgu?"

I'd argue that Voli has been similarly explored. As Ornn's brother and main foil (Anivia honourable mention ofc.) It'd be silly for them not to explore both champions at the same time.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

You misunderstood the AD shield part. I don't mean that the shield scales with his AD. Do you know Camille's passive? It either just blocks magic damage or attack damage, not both.

I mean that kind of AD shield. A shield that just blocks attack damage. Which would fit his identity, since he was the anti-AD-tank basically since release and always weaker against magic damage users.

You misunderstood the movementspeed scaling as well. Just like the range of Warwick's ult or the damage of Janna's passive scales with it, I want such a scaling in the kit as well.

I understand your points about Volibear. I still prefer Rammus. We can agree to disagree here. ^^

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

You misunderstood the AD shield part. I don't mean that the shield scales with his AD. Do you know Camille's passive? It either just blocks magic damage or attack damage, not both.

Ahh, I see. Would be a nerf, but would certainly decrease his "pick into almost anything" status.

I mean that kind of AD shield. A shield that just blocks attack damage. Which would fit his identity, since he was the anti-AD-tank basically since release and always weaker against magic damage users.

Yes, I get it now, ty for the explanation.

You misunderstood the movementspeed scaling as well. Just like the range of Warwick's ult or the damage of Janna's passive scales with it, I want such a scaling in the kit as well.

Wouldn't that overlap with Hecarim E too much? (Sorry if I'm incorrectly assuming that Q roll dmg would scale with MS) Trying to look out for Rammus and Hecarim here.

I understand your points about Volibear. I still prefer Rammus. We can agree to disagree here. ^^

Indeed we can agree to disagree^^ Was fun.

Tomeksz1 votes

Spideraxe said that the next champion getting VGU (the one after Irelia) can go either top or jungle so Rammus seems unlikely since he is played almost exclusivy in the jungle.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

It wasn't long ago that Rammus got played at top lane as well, though. Specifically as a counter pick against auto attack reliant champions.

Honestly, I don't even know what caused the shift that he is almost exclusively jungle now. But that is a fair point to consider.

Still think that something like Pantheon for example is less unlikely, since Irelia is the last VGU and they would share top as their main position both. Which they want to avoid in the VGUs. A main jungler with the option to go top lane seems most likely for me. And I don't know what would rule out Rammus as such.

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