I hope that there will eventually be a Slaver Champion

darkdill·Feb 1, 2018·3 votes·647 views

We have a few Champions like Xin Zhao who have been slaves in the past (though Xin's story might get retconned), but so far we don't have someone who actually enslaves people. It'd be interesting to see a character who breaks other people into becoming thralls, whether through beatings, cruelty, or other means.

Hey, Star Wars Clone Wars pulled it off with the Zygerrian arc, so I don't see why Riot couldn't pull it off. And there's already slavery context in Xerath's lore.

ITT: Thresh and Mordekaiser don't count, as Mordekaiser doesn't capture that vibe properly, and Thresh is "the torturer".

57 Comments

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20186 votes

Or let’s not ever bring that into this game ever.

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20183 votes

Murder is not any better but we have. Torturing is even worse but we have it too.

I don't know what makes slavery unacceptable.

YokoNomiFeb 1, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Murder is not any better but we have. Torturing is even worse but we have it too.

I don't know what makes slavery unacceptable.

There are things worse than death, I hope you're aware. What you seem to be acutely unaware of though, is what slavery has done to humanity over the years.

I'm sure this thread will deleted in a moment though, so not sure why I'm wasting my time, being annoyed with your tasteless commentary.

darkdillFeb 1, 20183 votes

Why would this be deleted for trying to discuss something that has been shown already in previous lores? Xerath was a slave, after all.

YokoNomiFeb 1, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Why would this be deleted for trying to discuss something that has been shown already in previous lores? Xerath was a slave, after all.

As I've mentioned already. Except there's a big difference of having it as part of a backstory and having it be the actual character.

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20183 votes

Azir was the emperor of an empire of slavery, deal with it.

YokoNomiFeb 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Azir was the emperor of an empire of slavery, deal with it.

I feel like people are intentionally ignoring the fact that I've acknowledged the existence of slavery in the game, just so they can be sassy with me.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 1, 20182 votes

They are, but here's a fun trick. It can go both ways. If they are going to ignore your points then you can freely ignore theirs :)

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20185 votes

I am aware what slavery did to humanity, are you aware what wars did tho?

Let's remove Rune Wars, Ionia War, Great Void War etc. then because we have sensetive SJWs think they are morally perfect like you.

Stop bullshitting. Thresh and Evelynn are racing on which one of us can be more evil, terrifying, parasite and monster and you are making slavery problem. Life is not wonderful and full of rainbows like you imagine, and Runeterra is reflecting it relatively well. It is a not collection of fairy tales that have only happy endings. And slavery shouldn't be an expection of this for the reason of it is somewhat politicial.

If slavery is political, SO IS WAR.

Torture, war and painful death are worse than slavery because in the end, you still have hope to be free. Flaying skin alive, snapping limbs, burning to ashes, torturing emotionally, leaving the person in a cage full of predators without any hope to survive are not BETTER than slavery, I don't give a damn about whatever you say.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20183 votes

Torture and active slavery have no place in the game.

The fact that you can’t recognize the difference in nuance between slavery and conflict is unsettling.

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Torture and active slavery have no place in the game.

Thresh Xerath

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

xerath was a freed slave I understand that, but there shouldn’t be a champion who actively seeks to enslave others as part of gameplay.

But nice job with the “gotcha” you really got me.

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 1, 20184 votes

{quoted}

xerath was a freed slave I understand that, but there shouldn’t be a champion who actively seeks to enslave others as part of gameplay.

But nice job with the “gotcha” you really got me.

Thresh and Mordekaiser literally do that with the souls of the enemies.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

Read the fucking op. Enslaving souls of the dead is an acceptable trope in fantasy, it is clearly different from the commodification of human beings.

Do you actually see the two as the same thing?

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Read the fucking op. Enslaving souls of the dead is an acceptable trope in fantasy, it is clearly different from the commodification of human beings.

Do you actually see the two as the same thing?

Souls is WAY worse if you think about it...

Anyways, as the op mentions, Slavery is already a thing in the lore of the game, so you cant say that "Torture and active slavery have no place in the game."... because is already in the lore.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

Has any human at any point in the entire history of the real world had their soul taken by an evil sorcerer?

No? Have here been countless victims of the i humane practice of slavery? Has the commodification of people been one of the most widely condemned crimes of the 21st century?

I can actively deny that a champion who’s goal is to “break others through torture and cruelty”, with the occupation of “slaver” has any place in the game at all.

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Has any human at any point in the entire history of the real world had their soul taken by an evil sorcerer?

No?

MAYBE!

Have here been countless victims of the i humane practice of slavery? Has the commodification of people been one of the most widely condemned crimes of the 21st century?

I can actively deny that a champion who’s goal is to “break others through torture and cruelty”, with the occupation of “slaver” has any place in the game at all.

Who says that the "slaver" champion has to enslave humans? Maybe the champion could slave minions or yorldes or minotaurs, who knows.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

Magic isn’t real, sorry to burst your bubble.

Are you saying that enslaving yordles And Minotaurs, who are clearly of human intelligence, is better?

It’s disgusting that the domination of a living being to the point of slavery is such a desired gameplay fantasy

Ebonmaw DragonFeb 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Magic isn’t real, sorry to burst your bubble.

Are you saying that enslaving yordles And Minotaurs, who are clearly of human intelligence, is better?

It’s disgusting that the domination of a living being to the point of slavery is such a desired gameplay fantasy

Runeterra is not real and anything that happens there is not real as well, including the slaves of Shurima.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

okay, so let’s make a champion who blatantly hates handicapped people. He has such a hatred of them that he has made it his life’s mission to “cleanse” the population of this perceived blight.

It’s okay though, you can’t be offended by such a character because he ain’t real. Riot definitely wouldn’t be accused of dangerous obliviousness with that one.

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20182 votes

Ebonmaw Dragon is right. Thresh physically torture his victims to death, and after that, enslaves their souls for next round, which is actually eternal.

He physically, emotionally and "ethereally" tortures his victims. Evelynn says "How do you kill them so slowly? You have to teach me."

Thresh is even worse than Evelynn I don't know what are you talking about. Are we reading the same story?

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20181 votes

So the answer is yes, you think I’m incapable of comprehending the horrible things that the champions get up to in their free time.

Does Thresh torture people in game? No. Do his abilities hurt people? Sure they do, but that isn’t torturing someone.

Evelyn herself could do away with the whole sadism angle and the gameplay could stay the same.

You’re arguing that fictional, magical violence that is clearly fake and clearly wrong, justifies the existence of a champion focused on enslaving others in the way that Xin Zhao was enslaved.

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20183 votes

Evelynn

Even listening her quotes are enough. Things she does are far worse in the background.

Slavery exists. Look at Shurima.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

You’re being so obtuse.

Slavery in the lore exists. Obviously.

Bad champions exist, obviously.

Evelynn is in fact, a demon, obviously a morally reprehensible figure who’s conclusion will almost assuredly involve her demise.

Do you think you’re proving a point here? The only thing I’m seeing is a critical misunderstanding of why a champion centered around commodifying others through “cruelty and beatings” ( as OP put it so nicely) is a bad idea.

But please continue to assume I’m stupid. Because that’s the only reason I could come up with to explain your inane responses up and down this thread.

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20181 votes

If Evelynn being a demon is your execuse, Thresh was not a less monster when he was human. He was torturing his prisoners.

Take it, a completely human character torturing others. Realistic, isn't it?

I am not sayin cruelty and beating should be applied to this slaver character's gameplay, as Evelynn doesn't really represent it, nor neither Thresh. But it can be done in story. Not extreme, Jhin colour text needed to be rewritten for that reason. Thresh did not have detailed torture moments. And Evelynn's story just ended in torture moment. So they are not making it a blood rain. Why would they make slavery so detailed and deep?

Look, I am not into this slaver theme, it doesn't interest me. Why I am here is hypocrisy. I couldn't care less about slaver theme, actually, I would desire far cooler and more badass themes to a rich bitch weak ass shit human slavering others cuz holding power at her hands. I would want Baccai and Undead Ascended, not slaver architype. I wouldn't want it to delay next champion with this pathetic theme.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20181 votes

except in every instance there’s a caveat. When thresh was a human he tortured magical items/one dude who never stopped healing.

If Riot wanted to create the archetype of a slaver, slavery would have to not be apart of his kit at all. Maybe he could have a whip, but that would just be terrible.

Would it be a politically wise move for Riot to include a character who explicitly sought to rape people? Slavery to me is a crime on the order of rape. It’s a crime of power, completely dominating someone and in turn dehumanizing them. Much more despicable than a fictional monster doing fictional monster things.

If Riot sought to create an enterprising/greedy merchant type, I bet you rp that slavery would be something you would have to dig deep in the lore for.

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

except in every instance there’s a caveat. When thresh was a human he tortured magical items/one dude who never stopped healing.

If Riot wanted to create the archetype of a slaver, slavery would have to not be apart of his kit at all. Maybe he could have a whip, but that would just be terrible.

Would it be a politically wise move for Riot to include a character who explicitly sought to rape people? Slavery to me is a crime on the order of rape. It’s a crime of power, completely dominating someone and in turn dehumanizing them. Much more despicable than a fictional monster doing fictional monster things.

If Riot sought to create an enterprising/greedy merchant type, I bet you rp that slavery would be something you would have to dig deep in the lore for.

Thresh was already torturing other prisoners hefore him. He was just more careful, so no one would know. He just found huge piece of diamond, others were silver coin.

Rape is shameful and no one would want to play or main a rapist champion. I wouldn't want it either. But a mini villain in a story raping someone is not unacceptable IMO. Or trying. Definitely not detailed though.

Slaver on the other hand is more used theme in fantasy, people are used to it, like murder and torture, and even while it is equally bad with rape, it is not shameful as it. I can find many slaver fictional character to rapist ones.

We are on the same ship about gameplay. Look at my message above.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20181 votes

Then I suppose I lack the faith in Riot to properly conceptualize a character like that.

Kudos to you for being that optimistic.

FasmodeyFeb 1, 20182 votes

They were succesful in sexuality of Evelynn.

I think they can do that but I would prefer better themes.

Warlord DienekesFeb 1, 20181 votes

I am curious how quite frankly one of the most societal changing and ubiquitous conditions of the pre-industrial world somehow means it is not worth exploring.

But that might just be because I tend to think every concept is worth exploring.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20183 votes

Slavery is dehumanizing, it’s horrifying, near irredeemable, and has no place as an active pursuit in league of legends.

MordepoolFeb 1, 20185 votes

PR nightmare

RookPusherFeb 1, 20184 votes

The whole concept creeps me out

redniwediSFeb 1, 20182 votes

Honestly it's supposed to. Doesn't mean it couldn't be made into a successful villain though.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20183 votes

Not for this game.

redniwediSFeb 1, 20181 votes

I don't see any reason why not, besides certain members of the community being violently opposed to the idea. It can be seamlessly integrated into the world after all, and isn't any less tasteful than other things Riot has touched on.

It honestly feels like you're expecting a champion with a slave based kit, which would definitely be over the line. A kit designed around someone who is exceedingly greedy could work just fine, and their story could involve being active in the already present slave trade.

I'm not saying Riot should do this, I'm only saying if Riot wanted to they could easily find a place in this game for such a character.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

This post is arguing for the existence of a champion focused around enslaving others.

If Riot wants to make a greedy champion (I couldn’t imagine why) like the one you described, it would definitely not feature slavery as part of gameplay.

redniwediSFeb 1, 20181 votes

I went back and read the OP, and while he doesn't specify those aspects being present in the gameplay I can see how it could be read that way.

Besides, Lust and Gluttony already exist as entities in League, there's no reason the others won't show up.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

I would argue that no, they do not. Tahm Kench is centered around despair, and evelynn around sadism.

The commodification of people, unlike every single fantastical aspect of Lol, is something that continues to persist in the world. I’m glad to be confident that such an archetype will never see the light of day.

redniwediSFeb 1, 20181 votes

Villains are crafted to be overcome, and rooting one in reality can make defeating them mean something real.

Your denial that something like this could ever come to League is definitely a stretch, and while I doubt it would show up as a champion I have little doubt it will show up as a fleshed out character in a longer story. Don't be so closed off to having a hate-able villain that you can't see the benefit of having one.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

Am I talking about the existence of such a villain in the lore? Am I talking about how such villains exist across fiction?

No I’m fucking not.

I’m talking about the release of a champion centered around the concept of enslaving others through “cruelty/beatings” as OP so enthusiastically listed.

But if you can take your words out of my mouth that would be nice.

redniwediSFeb 1, 20181 votes

Where did I put words in your mouth? Was it in saying you deny something like this could ever come to League? That's the only thing I've said that assumes your meaning, and based on the way you wrote I think it's a fair assumption. It's possible I read it wrong, but in that case I wasn't putting words in your mouth.

It'd be interesting to see a character who breaks other people into becoming thralls, whether through beatings, cruelty, or other means.

Also this does not imply gameplay. This is talking about the character as a whole, which could mean gameplay but could easily only mean personality and backstory. I don't agree with the OP, but I'm still willing to discuss ideas I don't agree with. If you were not so violently opposed to this maybe you could better articulate why Riot should completely avoid this idea, instead of just saying "no it's bad and wrong" and leaving it at that.

Being opposed to an idea is perfectly fine, but the moment it starts shutting down discussion it's a problem.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20181 votes

Ok fine. Let’s discuss why featuring slavery in such a prominent fashion is a terrible idea.

So how would you include such a character? What would be their gameplay fantasy? What would be their distinguishing factor from the other champions? Where would their story go? What would be their motivations?

How do you fit actively enslaving people into the game without causing a major fucking shitstorm around the world?

redniwediSFeb 1, 20181 votes

Alright, I think I've made it clear I don't actually think a champion like this should be added, but I'll answer your questions as best I can as if this would happen anyway.

As I said before I think greed would be the best concept to go with. A character who is so self interested that they only value people by their weight in gold can make for a compelling villain. What caused them to become so cruel? What pains in their past forged this monster? How do they interact with society, and how does their society view them? These are all things that can flesh a character out that should only be relatable in a way that causes us to pity them for what they could have been, even while we hate them for what they are.

Gameplay wise I would view them as a potential debuff focused mage or support. That would be an easy way to get the point across that they want you to suffer.

Again I'll say the OP didn't actually say enslavement should show up in gameplay, and I personally think if anything like this is attempted the idea of human and non-human trafficking should be left to stories told outside of the game. On top of that the stories should be written to show the tragedy of it on both sides, from the people who's lives are ruined to those who no longer have the empathy to view their fellow man as anything but personal gain.

How do you fit actively enslaving people into the game without causing a major fucking shitstorm around the world?

It's already in the lore, all that would need to happen is bringing it to light in a tasteful way.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20181 votes

You’re right, you never advocated for it. That being said, such a champion would never sit well with me because slavery as a crime is despicable. Whichever villain this was would be the most evil character in the entire game. Especially if they are a human. No character in the game has gone that far. Slavery is fucked up on a magnitude so much greater than any of the fantasy violence in the game.

The only sense I could ever see slavery being implemented would be through a monster that could take control through possession.

To me there is no tasteful way to make slavery tasteful. It’s a crime similar to rape.

Such a character imo would have to be a non-champion.

If Riot made such a character it would really disappoint me. I’m sure people here know me as one of Riot’s biggest shills or whatever. If Riot made such a character I think I would stop playing the game because the crime is that fucked up.

I don’t think I speak for just myself when I say that drawing attention to that aspect of the world would make me uncomfortable, not with the game but with Riot as a company.

redniwediSFeb 1, 20181 votes

To me there is no tasteful way to make slavery tasteful.

To be fair that's not quite how I was putting it. Slavery should always be presented in a light that shows it as horrible, but there can be value in doing that. Putting a spotlight on the tragedy can be a very powerful thing. It would make me uncomfortable too, but so did learning about that part of our past in history class, and that is something everyone should sit through.

HalcyonDwellerFeb 1, 20182 votes

Just want to plug something of my own in here. Slavery doesn't have to sit well with you. It doesn't sit well with me either. But other things can be equally morally repugnant to us and still exist both in reality and in the game.

I wouldn't want Riot to create a character that delivers on a fantasy of abusing or dehumanizing others. However having a character that is involved in the slave trade does not necessarily have to do that.

I think that it would make a good villain, just as several other deplorable characters in League are. And Sidewinder raises a great point that making it something that people could overcome, it gives people a real life catharsis from fulfilling the fantasy of standing up to someone representative of slavery.

You're being far too combative with people in this thread. I understand that you feel passionately about this subject, but when you behave so overzealously, it actually hurts your side of the argument because you push people away who could have otherwise been persuaded to agree with you.

RookPusherFeb 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Honestly it's supposed to. Doesn't mean it couldn't be made into a successful villain though.

You posted this on Day 1 of Black History Month

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOFeb 1, 20182 votes

The fucking ignorance that people here routinely display never ceases to amaze me.

redniwediSFeb 1, 20181 votes

Alright? The date doesn't really change what I said one way or the other. A well written villain is supposed to be easily hated, and the concept of slavery should creep you out in this day and age. Not really sure why this reply is targeted at me instead of the OP.