Who is a better General, Swain or Nasus?

Oakleaf Ranger·Jun 1, 2016·3 votes·1,546 views

After reading Nasus's updated lore I was curious about who is a better general/leader. The great leader of Noxus or some dog? If you can't tell I'm betting my money on Swain.

31 Comments

BrutusnessJun 1, 20164 votes

Jaredan actually answered this on his ask.fm page.

"The battlefield has changed since the time Nasus was directing the flow of war. Personally, I think Swain is too canny if they went head to head right now. Give it time though, Nasus is going through some stuff at the moment."

Oakleaf RangerJun 1, 20161 votes

Long live Noxus and the MASTER TACTICAIN Swain

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

Yup and honestly this answer makes sense. If you take Alexander the Great and just plop him in the medieval period and make him fight Charlemagne all of my money is on Charlemagne winning that battle, despite Alexander being the far more intelligent, successful, and revolutionary general. Times change, what was once game changing becomes commonplace and it takes awhile to get up to speed.

That and Nasus seems to have spent the last millennia pouting alone in the desert and if we want to see what not staying fresh and active can do to a general, well we have an example. Napoleon, in his youth he was amazing, in the running for the top 5 greatest generals in history. But read his later campaigns, and he just seems different, unsure of himself and sluggish. I'd say that's where Nasus is right now (or would be if he was a real person, he's a fictional character so the authors can write him any damn way they please).

Of course none of this really addresses the most important questions in determining who would win. Which side has the technological (or magical) advantage, who has more troops, and which side has an economy that allows them to convert to total war most efficiently and for longer.

legionnaire99Jun 1, 20162 votes

An immortal dog dimy God that seen every battle in history that has ever book ever or a human general

Blood MagicksJun 1, 20161 votes

You're implying Swain is human tho.

legionnaire99Jun 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=VaynexVlad OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-06-01T22:01:11.910+0000)

You're implying Swain is human tho.

He was born in the lore so yea

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

Eh Jaredan already answered this:

Or in short Nasus has been out of the game too long.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-06-02T12:28:00.847+0000)

Eh Jaredan already answered this:

"The battlefield has changed since the time Nasus was directing the flow of war. Personally, I think Swain is too canny if they went head to head right now. Give it time though, Nasus is going through some stuff at the moment."

Or in short Nasus has been out of the game too long.

He is behind of tactics, not powers. He can still shine as his old days and catch his glory for once again. He is currently weaker because of his mental weakening. He is not in his full potential. I'm sure in his full potential, noxian army shouldn't be that terrifying.

I feel like 4 Ascended, together, can conquer Noxus and Demacia easily. But that's not going to happen, never.

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20162 votes

Yes, and the question was who is the better general. Jaredan answered that: currently Swain.

As to a war and powers, now Noxus is using bombs, magic-tech, new forms of magic, and disease warfare, we have no idea how an Ascended deals with that.

As to the Ascended being unbeatable I point toward Bloodlines where. Nasus talks about a different Ascended who died. Not to another Ascended, just some of the magic from that day and age. That and Shurima still seemed to lose wars before Nasus and had Ascended at the time they were losing wars I'm guessing the Nasus can take on armies line may have poetical, since it doesn't fit the evidence from the rest of the story.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T12:49:54.897+0000)

Yes, and the question was who is the better general. Jaredan answered that: currently Swain.

As to a war and powers, now Noxus is using bombs, magic-tech, new forms of magic, and disease warfare, we have no idea how an Ascended deals with that.

As to the Ascended being unbeatable I point toward Bloodlines where. Nasus talks about a different Ascended who died. Not to another Ascended, just some of the magic from that day and age. That and Shurima still seemed to lose wars before Nasus and had Ascended at the time they were losing wars I'm guessing the Nasus can take on armies line may have poetical, since it doesn't fit the evidence from the rest of the story.

I NEVER SAID Ascended are unbeatable, don't make up things that I didn't say.

_ “A desert stylite once told her she would see the sun rise on the day a Shuriman emperor ruled the entire world. It made her think she was invincible, for we were yet to conquer the world, but she was brought down by monsters on the eve of Icathia’s doom. I held her as her light dimmed and I sent her to her slumber far below the sands with her weapon upon her breast.”_

She is killed by voidborns, not humans. And we know how powerful voidborns are. Noxians and Void are not equal. Void is overwhelmingly powerful compare to Noxus.

Well, as we know, Ascended and Void fought in the past. They probably showed a immense fight and a lot of Ascended died but seems like Ascended won, for now.

Void >>> Noxus, doesn't matter how much Noxus improves itself, it will be always like this.

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

You're right I misremembered how she died.

But that still doesn't explain how Shurima was losing wars before Nasus despite having the Ascended. I also wouldn't go throwing about terms like "it will always be like this" when talking about a fantasy world written by well writers. The purpose of writing is to keep us on our toes and not be completely expected. I wouldn't write Noxus off just yet.

Or at least I hope not. It'd be a boring as hell setting of the demigods are the great movers and shakers.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T13:35:06.064+0000)

You're right I misremembered how she died.

But that still doesn't explain how Shurima was losing wars before Nasus despite having the Ascended. I also wouldn't go throwing about terms like "it will always be like this" when talking about a fantasy world written by well writers. The purpose of writing is to keep us on our toes and not be completely expected. I wouldn't write Noxus off just yet.

Or at least I hope not. It'd be a boring as hell setting of the demigods are the great movers and shakers.

Villains have always been more powerful in fantasy universes for making it more interesting. If good side was stronger, what would will be interesting? What would be the struggle? Void will always be more powerful than Noxus because Void is villain, Noxus is not.

Where does it say before Nasus, Shurima was losing wars? As I know conquests just got faster with Nasus because of his tactical intelligent.

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

Again throwing around always. No, not true. Villains can be weaker in a power sense and still be villains. Lex Luthor is probably the most obvious example. During the Thrawn saga the Imperial Remnant was far weaker than the Galactic Republic. From resent movies, any serial killer flick is undoubtedly weaker than an entire cop force, and of course Zemo is hilariously outmatched by the Avengers.

But a weaker villain just forces the writer to write them more intelligently. Which is admittedly harder to do, but can be very rewarding when done right. It does have to work against our natural desire to side with the underdogs though. Difficult to pull off.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T13:51:29.066+0000)

Again throwing around always. No, not true. Villains can be weaker in a power sense and still be villains. Lex Luthor is probably the most obvious example. During the Thrawn saga the Imperial Remnant was far weaker than the Galactic Republic. From resent movies, any serial killer flick is undoubtedly weaker than an entire cop force, and of course Zemo is hilariously outmatched by the Avengers.

But a weaker villain just forces the writer to write them more intelligently. Which is admittedly harder to do, but can be very rewarding when done right. It does have to work against our natural desire to side with the underdogs though. Difficult to pull off.

Well, it doesn't matter in our case. Void is clearly stronger than Noxus. They're the biggest threat of Runeterra. Noxus is not even terrifyingly strong as Shadow Isles.

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

For now. Possibly always, but I'm not willing to throw out a good surprise twist just yet.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T14:00:17.360+0000)

For now. Possibly always, but I'm not willing to throw out a good surprise twist just yet.

Even Aurelion Sol thinks Void must be stopped, so, I dont think Noxus will be beyond of Void ever.

We're talking about an entity who didn't care about Shurima's gloriest times. xd

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

Yep, currently Noxus is as far below the Void as the Space Targonians were below Aurelion Sol. And yet, we see how that turned out.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=000100010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T14:11:19.489+0000)

Yep, currently Noxus is as far below the Void as the Space Targonians were below Aurelion Sol. And yet, we see how that turned out.

No one said Noxus can't use trick but they're much much and much weaker than Void in battlefield. They're humans please, they probably don't even have Syndra level mage.

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

Winning by a trick is still winning. Like I said, a weaker but smarter villain can be great if done well.

As to the magic of Noxus and its limits we have literally not seen a bit of the reworked lore for them. They also have ties to the Black Rose which contains quite a few mages of unknown power and a potential spider god. Then we go to the new magi-tech that they've created with resurrection like Sion and Urgot, and the unstoppable plagues released upon Ionia. There is a lot there to draw upon to close the power gap, if Riot chooses to develop it in that way.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=00010001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T15:03:26.592+0000)

Winning by a trick is still winning. Like I said, a weaker but smarter villain can be great if done well.

As to the magic of Noxus and its limits we have literally not seen a bit of the reworked lore for them. They also have ties to the Black Rose which contains quite a few mages of unknown power and a potential spider god. Then we go to the new magi-tech that they've created with resurrection like Sion and Urgot, and the unstoppable plagues released upon Ionia. There is a lot there to draw upon to close the power gap, if Riot chooses to develop it in that way.

They better to conquer Demacia then if they're that strong. They give much more effort on a ressurection ritual than Black Mist itself.

I'm talking about raw power on there, not tricking. Nasus can win against a noxian army without trick alone.

SpookyNeedleJun 2, 20162 votes

Seeing as Nasus is ascended, incredibly intelligent, and was known for being such a good general… teemo is probably the best

Oakleaf RangerJun 2, 20161 votes

unspeakable horrors await people like you

Virgin RayJun 1, 20161 votes

Isn't Renekton the general of shurima?

GreenLoreJun 1, 20161 votes

Renekton was the general at the frontline while Nasus was the strategist that remained at the backline.

redniwediSJun 1, 20161 votes

I don't think you can really compare. They likely have wildly different styles of command. They are on two very different fields of battle and faced opponents from cultures that are not remotely similar.

They are both good Generals, but to say which is better would require similarities. Unless we hear more of how each one commands their armies I don't really think we can judge them successfully.

That said they most certainly have aspects that are superior to the other. I would expect Nasus to be superior when it comes to logistics and battlefield control, where as Swain would be far superior when it comes to information gathering and subterfuge.

JayHog1992Jun 1, 20161 votes

I would bet on Nasus, because according to lore, he cared deeply for every warrior under his command that fell on the battlefield.

Knowing Noxus, if a guy in Swain's army died, they wouldn't even bother with a funeral. After all, if you're weak, you're already dead. And if you died, you'll be remembered as weak.

Oakleaf RangerJun 1, 20161 votes

Well that Noxus's mentality in general not just specific to Swain. Those who have served under Swain grew to love this guy plus he fights on the frontline instead of hiding behind his men, probably one of the many reasons people are so willing/want to follow this guy.

"The men who've served under him (and survived) have remained in his charge with unshakable faith and loyalty. He leapt through the High Command's hierarchy, often ascending when superiors requested demotions to join his unit. A cunning strategist, Swain was decorated after every battle he fought, regularly hobbling in contemplation at the front of the assault."

GreenLoreJun 1, 20161 votes

I'd say Swain,mostly because being a tactician is a much more important part of Swains character than it is for Nasus.

FasmodeyJun 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'd say Swain,mostly because being a tactician is a much more important part of Swains character than it is for Nasus.

Nasus goes to brutal mode and shatters Swain, he doesn't even need to be a tactician. He overwhelms him in every way. He can even fight with a noxian army alone.

Warlord DienekesJun 2, 20161 votes

Eh if that were true why would Nasus and Renekton still fight with armies during their prime? And we have seen that Ascended still can be killed by non-ascended. I think you are vastly overestimating them.

FasmodeyJun 2, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Dienekes,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6Z3J0os4,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-06-02T12:24:19.907+0000)

Eh if that were true why would Nasus and Renekton still fight with armies during their prime? And we have seen that Ascended still can be killed by non-ascended. I think you are vastly overestimating them.

Nasus could fight a mortal army single-handed, but Xerath was no ordinary foe. He was an Ascended being who wielded the stolen strength of the sun and the power of dark magic.

That's what Bloodline says.

Also, I dont remember Nasus in a battlefield. I think it was always only Renekton in conquest.

The case that is about being with their army is probably making it easier.

I'm not overestimating Ascended, I'm giving the title of Ascended Brothers. They're more powerful than an average ascended. They're called as Legendary Ascended Brothers.