Why do another tree-based champion? I mean we've got Maokai. Zyra is plant based as well. Why go back to that kind of specific theme again when riot isn't doing that many champs right now and there are probably a ton of other things riot could touch on? Even if you wanted to stick to a plant theme you could have gone to serebii and gotten some other inspiration for a champion.
Horidas4 votesThey're more into the sylvan nature for Ivern it seems, but Maokai is this stubborn, vengeful treant dedicated to gathering nature spirits to overthrow the unnatural undeath in the shadow isles. Ivern definitely seems more on the whimsical side. It's like comparing Kled to Sejuani just because they ride something.
Whyte Lyon1 votesPlus it seems that his in game kit is going to be the definitive uniqueness that holds his character above every other champ. However this is assuming Ivern main role is a Jungler.
Edit: seems to some confusion, I'll explain what I meant further.
GreenLore1 votesI wouldn't say that this really applies,because in the end there is nothing that stops riot from simply making a champion with a unique theme AND unqiue gameplay.
Though I think Ivern will be different from maokai in several ways
Pierce The Veal1 votes[{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2uIV1NzR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-09-15T01:11:00.834+0000)
Plus it seems that his in game kit is going to be the definitive uniqueness that holds his character above every other champ. However this is assuming Ivern main role is a Jungler.
Edit: seems to some confusion, I'll explain what I meant further.
- The theory atm is Ivern wont need to farm jg monsters to gain xp and gold. If that is proven true then it would be a first for League. So Ivern might look like another tree/plant champ but he'll likely have a very unique theme and gameplay to go along with him. Effectively creating an even bigger gap between the two's similarities.
Double jangle?
Linna Excel1 votesWhile I generally agree with this in that they are presented as different, we'll need to see what role ivern operates as in the game. I can see the argument of a good maokai, but another tree person seems like a niche appeal in terms of thematics. So they've just used up their treant design space and they did it at a time they aren't making that many champions anymore.
The KnightOwl3 votesRiot has made several champions that are human, no complaints there eh? I don't mind another tree in league.
Linna Excel1 votesI'd prefer a shrubbery.
My biggest issue is that I don't think riot is making enough new champs to do a more niche one like maokai's good twin. It's less of this is a bad idea and more of, this is a bad idea at riot's current output.
GreenLore2 votesYeah I wonder how they'll differentiate Ivern and Maokai.
However I wouldn't be too judgy before he gets on the pbe.
Oleandervine1 votesYeah I wonder how they'll differentiate Ivern and Maokai.
However I wouldn't be too judgy before he gets on the pbe.
The popular theory is that Ivern is going to be the first planned Mage Jungler (Sorry Karthus), so that alone would differentiate him from Maokai.
GreenLore2 votesThe thing is that gameplay alone isn't enough to differentiate two champions,because in the end,there is nothing stopping riot from doing a champion who is unique in terms of gameplay AND theme.
I mean otherwise we could get a bunch of light mages for our next 30 champions,since everyone could just work differently from lux.
And we already have a mage jungler with 
and maokai himself is sometimes played more like a mage than tank(and as a jungler as well)
Oleandervine1 votesThe thing is that gameplay alone isn't enough to differentiate two champions,because in the end,there is nothing stopping riot from doing a champion who is unique in terms of gameplay AND theme.
I mean otherwise we could get a bunch of light mages for our next 30 champions,since everyone could just work differently from lux.
And we already have a mage jungler with
On your point, you're making an assumption that someone of the same species as another champ can't have a unique theme or kit design - this is wrong. How many humans are in the game? How many Yordles? Do they all have the exact same designs and kits because they are the same species? Are Kindred and Bard, both celestial entities, the exact same thing due to their shared similarities? I think you'll find the answer to this is "No."
Gameplay alone DOES differentiate every champion in the game from members of their own species. Graves is vastly different from Caitlyn and Lucian, despite them all being human marksmen. Ziggs' feel and playstyle is also dramatically different from Heimerdinger and Veigar, even though they are all Yordle mages. So you can't argue that playstyle alone isn't enough to make champions unique when nearly every single champion to date defies that.
In regards to Fiddlesticks, he was initially not designed for the jungle, his kit just happens to work there. There, to date, has never been a champion specifically designed to be a mage that functions exclusively in the jungle.
GreenLore1 votesOn your point, you're making an assumption that someone of the same species as another champ can't have a unique theme or kit design - this is wrong. How many humans are in the game? How many Yordles? Do they all have the exact same designs and kits because they are the same species? Are Kindred and Bard, both celestial entities, the exact same thing due to their shared similarities? I think you'll find the answer to this is "No."
Gameplay alone DOES differentiate every champion in the game from members of their own species. Graves is vastly different from Caitlyn and Lucian, despite them all being human marksmen. Ziggs' feel and playstyle is also dramatically different from Heimerdinger and Veigar, even though they are all Yordle mages. So you can't argue that playstyle alone isn't enough to make champions unique when nearly every single champion to date defies that.
The thing is that none of the humans or yordles are defined by their species,but more through what they do,if we go by it through dnd terms,then you could say that they are defined by their class,not by their race. Caitlyn is a sheriff,Graves is a badass-outlaw and lucian is a gunslinger/undead-hunter. Similarly Veigar is a black mage,while Heimerdinger is a ditzy professor and Ziggs is the mad bomber.
The race of these characters doesn't matter for their archetype,you could change their race to anything else and they would still have a unique theme that no one else shares with them.
And that is what I am talking about,the theme of the champion,which should be unqiue in ADDITION to having a unique gameplay.
Because this doesn't apply to all non-human champs:
For example 
really hasn't much going on except being a bear.
Sure he is also a seer,but that is barely part of his character and 
is one as well,meaning that volibear has currently nothing to make him stand out thematically except for being a bear,which is why we will likely never get another ursine-champion,because even if their skills were different,their themes would overlap and volibear wouldn't be unqiue anymore.
However keep in mind that even though I disagree with your arguement,I don't accuse Ivern of being the same as Maokai. We haven't seen everything about ivern and one could say that the theme of "cursed treant" and the "healthy treant" are still different enough to be considered 2 unique archetypes.
In regards to Fiddlesticks, he was initially not designed for the jungle, his kit just happens to work there. There, to date, has never been a champion specifically designed to be a mage that functions exclusively in the jungle.
Well you yourself named Karthus as an example and Karthus never really functioned in the jungle very well...
Fiddle might not have been designed for the jungle(though he comes from a time where most champs weren't designed for a specific role),but it is certainly where he fits the best and where he'll likely stay.
Linna Excel1 votesI think gameplay can differentiate 2 champions, but my gut is telling me that tree-people is a very limited design space and riot just used it up. For example, I don't see Ivern getting a ton of skins. Ever. Then there's the issue of the two champ's roles in the game and I've got a feeling that they are going to overlap as tanks/mages.
So it's doable, but I think the bar is going to be a little high and this is a design idea riot will likely never be able to come back to again.
Linna Excel1 votesFiddles is the main mage jungler right now.
Kaelos1 votesFollow-up: Any chance Ivern is characterized as female?
It'd be awfully nice to have a female plant-based champ who isn't wearing the equivalent of lingerie.
Pierce The Veal1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kaelos J Rogue,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=2uIV1NzR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-09-15T07:23:03.483+0000)
Follow-up: Any chance Ivern is characterized as female?
It'd be awfully nice to have a female plant-based champ who isn't wearing the equivalent of lingerie.
Lingerie is awesome how dare you.
Jax thwack noises ensue
GreenLore2 votesWell Ivern has a male voice and seems to have a beard made of leaves,sooooo no there isn't a chance for ivern to be female.
I guess he was based on the Leshy/Lesovik,which is a male forest guardian from slavik folklore,which would explain why he is male.
Killstrado1 votesDid you just assume iverns gender
GreenLore1 votesI think there isn't much to assume considering that he is quite obviously male. Though he is likely genderless if you want to be technical.
Killstrado1 votesI'm just memeing bro
GreenLore1 votesSorry the meme went over my head xD
Oleandervine1 votesWhat's wrong with another Treant? What you've suggested doesn't make much sense, and here's why: Riot is trying to establish a living world of lore. Characters like they were done in the early days, where it's like "I like this. I'll make this." left the game with 40 different characters who were randomly put together in the same arena. Riot is avoiding that style of creation and attempting to make champions that flow and fit better into the established lore, and in the cases of Kindred and now Ivern, they're expanding into entities that were random one-ofs and trying to show that the world is full of creatures that operate very differently from the previous entities. In Zyra's lore, it all but tells us that she's the last of her kind, so having more plant creatures like her wouldn't fit without considerable changes, and just adding other random plant things would just add one more piece of disjointed lore to the mess they're already trying to harmonize.
Iwinatlife421 votesWhat is wrong with kindred's lore? Why should Runeterra not have a unique twist on the Grim Reaper? and as far as Ivern....We know literally nothing about him but he does not seem to be even close to the same race as zyra. He could be an Ionian Sage who is slowly turning into a tree, or a spirit of the forest, or a failed Zaunite Experiment who knows?
Oleandervine1 votesWhat is wrong with kindred's lore? Why should Runeterra not have a unique twist on the Grim Reaper? and as far as Ivern....We know literally nothing about him but he does not seem to be even close to the same race as zyra. He could be an Ionian Sage who is slowly turning into a tree, or a spirit of the forest, or a failed Zaunite Experiment who knows?
Nothing is wrong with Kindred's lore. I was using them and Ivern as an example of Riot taking one-of champ concepts (Bard as a cosmic entity, Maokai as a treant) and expanding on that front to make these lore concepts feel more inclusive in a world instead of making the entire roster special snowflakes that make no sense together. Bard is suddenly not so foreign and weird now that Kindred exists in the game as another mysterious entity. And now Maokai is not the only tree spirit in the entirety of the world with the revolution of Ivern.
Linna Excel1 votesWhat's wrong with another Treant?
It's an idea with limited appeal, it overlaps at least a little with Maokai both thematically and possible in terms of roles, and riot isn't doing that many champions anymore.
The last one is the biggest one for me. _ If riot was doing 16-20 champs a year_, sure I'd be fine with a tree who's a repeat of someone else because I know that in 3 weeks a new champ would be out. However as is, with this niche theme and an overly constrained number of design slots per year this choice was probably a mistake.