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A Few Questions About Ashe

Mira Arya Enthe·3/6/2017, 12:49:52 AM·24 votes·2,888 views

I have a couple lore based questions about Ashe, I am curious because they seem to not be covered under the base lore. I might be missing something though. If the community, or a Riot lore specialist would like to chime in and help me out, I'd love it!

#Respect from other leaders Ashe is the Queen of the Freljord Avarosan tribe and those allied to it. That said, there are a couple things that make me wonder how much other world leaders respect her. I think it would be awesome to add to her trials as a character if not everyone really looked at her as... royal. Here are a few reasons:

Age It is indicated in Ashe's lore that leadership was thrust upon her quite suddenly with the death of her mother. From all appearances and lore Ashe would seem to be the youngest leader in Runeterra. Swain, J3, Azir, Rek'Sai, Mordekaiser, Lissandra all certainly appear older than her, some absolutely are by lore. And I am fairly certain Sej is older, though she may just be more weathered.

Young leaders often do not get respect from their peers. Jealousy, seniority and parental/tribal instincts associate age with wisdom, respect and right. Is there any possibility that due to her age not everyone views Ashe as the best leader? Her own warriors did not initially respect her after all, since assassins tried to kill her.

Gender Ugh... hate to open this can of worms. But basically, Runeterra is a medieval, high fantasy world with some steampunk elements(like most fantasy worlds). It has arranged marriages (Fiora's lore), and most of the country leaders we know of directly are male, except in the Freljord(Granted this is a limited sample of Swain, J3, Azir. Since Rek/Morde are not really country leaders). Is it likely that some people would disrespect her rule on this merit, and potentially show Trynd more respect and act like he is in charge?(Or disrespect Trynd for letting a girl run the show).

Savages The Freljord tribes are largely known to be historically savage, barbarian tribes, who raid, pillage and plunder. Whether noble who doesn't like "Filthy savages" or peasant who looks at them with fear and anger about the things the Freljord has done to border towns and the like, is it possible people would disrespect Ashe as a leader simply based on "Freljord"? In addition to this we have indications she goes hunting and on journeys out into the frozen wastelands. Which just because it is the Freljord might be viewed as primitive instead of valorous like when J4 went out afk jungling monster hunting for years.

Between these three factors, and more I may not be thinking of, how likely is it that foreign leaders would respect her? How do different societies view her rulership?

#Speaking of Tryndamere It is assumed in the community the two are still married in lore, based on comments from Rioters. I am sure more will be said if and when either get future reworks(hopefully Trynd gets a rework really soon, love him!). But... why? The original story had them married for political reasons, but now with Tryndamere's tribe dead from Aatrox(wow Trynd's tribe died to a super minion...), on what basis are they married? Ashe seems like a busy young leader, she would need a reason to get married. Since matriarchy is normal in the Freljord it cannot be that she must marry as the Queen. It would have to be romance or political. As somebody inclined towards happy romantic(Draven x Draven) or sad romantic stories(rip Senna) I am very curious to know why the canon frozen love birds are together in the new lore. Perhaps Riot said why and I missed it, if so I'd love for some boards-guro to point me to it. If not, I'd love to know from Riot!

#Ashe's Archery Oh yeh! I am an archer irl, I shoot a 60lbs English longbow. So I am quite curious about a couple things regarding her archery(other than the... no offense, poor research on archery for her artwork.)

Why the Quiver? Ashe forms her arrows from magical Ice in lore, so why the quiver? Does this process require mana and so she likes to carry a reserve? Does her quiver form arrows more efficiently for her? I am very curious as I LOVE magic 'science' and lore stuff like this.

How powerful is her bow? Her bow is magical, but if it follows any normal rules what would be a comparative draw weight? She is a master archer, but that says nothing of the strength of her bow. Mine is 60lbs, for those unversed in archery that means it takes 60lbs of force to span it to full draw, pretty normal draw weight for a hunting bow. Archers use anything from 15lbs kids bows up to 150lbs+ English longbows(found in historical finds such as the Mary Rose). What would be the draw weight of Ashe's bow?

How long range is her bow? Bows historically could have a broad range, from fifty paces to... some accounts claim five hundred paces. In game it is obviously 600 units, but in lore about how far could she loose an arrow? Some related questions are. Do her arrows arch like normal arrows under gravity? Are her arrows affected by wind drift? Does her bow still function with the archer's paradox? If not how does she get her arrows to fly straight around the riser?.

How physically large is Enchanted Crystal Arrow? In the original video "Welcome to League of Legends", he ult was not very big, but that is ancient content. In game it is huge but well, game mechanics are not always lore accurate. How large would her ultimate be in lore as an arrow, how large is the AoE after it impacts and how powerful would the freezing effect be? I can only assume her ult would kill almost any normal human.

#Ashe's Magic In lore a lot of characters who seem mundane in game, have a lot more magical power than people expect. For example, Riven. Who is well versed in Ki and could see through the mask of Elise's enchantments over her followers and caught a glimpse of Elise's true form. Meanwhile in game she just swings a sword around and wind slashes.

In lore, Ashe has some form of magical guidance(Hawkshot in her lore), can form icy arrows and such. But just how extensive is here spiritism and ice magic? What kinds of things is she capable of?

It is also said somewhere(I lost the source) that she often listens to the whispers of the True Ice in her palace. Between that and her white hair and icy eyes, I can only assume she has some level of magical wisdom and visions. Could we get some more clarity on this?

#Combat without a bow I can only assume Ashe has some level of physical strength and mobility. Even before she found Avarosa's bow she would do hunting and adventures. Traveling the tundras and mountains, spanning a bow, using tools and such, grants a level of strength. On top of being a fantasy character. I'd like to think a Barbarian tribe woman in a culture where fighting is valued and women do a lot of the fighting, would be well practiced in general combat. On top of it surviving in such a land requires a certain level of toughness, strength and endurance if even just to tolerate the cold.

How well does Ashe fight without her bow? Would she be decent with a sword, knife or unarmed? Has being a Queen softened or hardened her?

#Ashe's Criminal Justice System Hmm, Ashe is known for being a merciful and wise Queen. That said, she is still a Queen of a Barbarian people in a high fantasy world. Just how merciful is she really? What does her legal system look like? How likely is she to put somebody down in a fight? Does her wisdom and grace extend to criminal judgement within her own courts? Are execution and banishment common? I cannot imagine the Freljord having a lot of large prisons to store criminals in. And does the Freljord have Thralls?

#Finish That is about it for the questions I have on Ashe. I'd love to hear from the lore experts on the boards, Ashe/Freljord enthusiasts, the speculators who piece together data for whacky conclusions and of course, I'd absolutely die to have any Rioters comment. Thank you for joining me here~

Mira Arya Enthe

32 Comments

Tattersall3/6/2017, 3:38:39 AM13 votes

Every few decades (I think), Demacia sends an emissary to the Freljord to scout out the current situation among the northern savages. Most recently, that emissary was Quinn. Here's her journal. Give it a read, it's a pretty good story :)

Sexy Jack Rabbit3/6/2017, 2:49:14 AM7 votes

I think in regards to Gender Ashe would not be horrifically disrespected. All of the main Tribe leaders are Female, Ashe, Sejuani and Lissandra.

But the main point is that the Frejlord is SO secluded, that not many people know what they are actually like, whether they even exist in Lissandra's case.

Noxus have shown that they don't respect you out of gender, sexuality, race or species, but rather out of your competence. I would suggest that Ashe would not be respected by Noxian's due to her pacifist-esque ways, not because of her Gender. Sejuani I can imagine would be highly respected, even revered.

Demacia would more then likely look down upon her. Gender-inequality seems a lot more prevalent there, with Fiora's and Camille's lore enforcing that idea. Fiora being the head of the family is effectively heresy, Lux playing into her family's ways is considered a good thing. Ashe is also young, I'd assume around late twenties, very early thirties. I can't imagine Demacia respecting her.

I personally see Piltover falling into a similar position as Demacia.

Zaun is all-around style place, it's debateable whether they would or wouldn't imo.

Ionia is very mixed up in their own affairs, and tbh it's a massive goballty-%%%% of a place. It'd be very hard to tell, but Karma IS a Spirtual Elder, so it's unknown how Gender effect Ionia's views. Otherwise we have no solid Lore about Ionia really.

GreenLore3/6/2017, 2:19:06 AM5 votes

I doubt gender plays a large role considering that Avarosa is one of the greatest heroes in the freljord,so its likely that the freljordians respect female leaders just as much as the male ones(though tryndameres barbarians might be different in that regard,we don't know how they are connected to the rest)

TyrekGoldenspear3/6/2017, 1:13:51 AM5 votes

J4 went out afk jungling

Love this. Also bumping this so a Rioter can see.

LankPants3/6/2017, 8:04:46 AM3 votes

There's a lot of interesting physics that can be theorised with Ashe's bow and arrows, the first of which is very simple.

Are her arrows affected by wind drift?

Less than wooden arrows. Ashe's arrows weigh more and are denser than wooden arrows. Ice has a density of 0.9167 g/cm3, while a European Ash arrow would have a density of 0.71 g/cm3. So Ashe's arrows would be heavier and less affected by wind drift than a traditional wooden arrow.

Do her arrows arch like normal arrows under gravity?

Yes, they're made of ice. Go outside, throw an ice cube and tell me if it falls.

Ashe forms her arrows from magical Ice in lore, so why the quiver? Does this process require mana and so she likes to carry a reserve? Does her quiver form arrows more efficiently for her? I am very curious as I LOVE magic 'science' and lore stuff like this.

She clearly draws an arrow from her quiver in her AA animation, what this suggests to me is that rather than creating an arrow from just ice she coats a more traditional arrow in ice as she shoots it.

I think when Ashe doesn't use a wooden core to her arrow what comes out is less arrow like and more of a spike as seen in her Q.

Archers use anything from 15lbs kids bows up to 150lbs+ English longbows(found in historical finds such as the Mary Rose). What would be the draw weight of Ashe's bow?

My theory on this would be that Ashe's bow doesn't have a true draw weight. Imagine for a second you're using an old wooden bow, but as you go to draw it the temperature of the bow is suddenly deceased to -50c. That would drastically increase the draw weight of the bow as the decrease in temperature would make the bow more rigid.

I think Ashe would be able to use similar thermodynamics to manipulate the draw of her bow as she draws, pulling the bow back in a warm near melting flexible state and solidifying it as she releases it causing it to snap back to its original shape. She'd be transferring the heat energy she put into the bow at the instant of her draw into mechanical energy as the bow solidified back to its original shape rather than the standard mechanical draw of a bow, essentially giving her a very low energy way to draw her bow very powerfully.

This makes a couple of assumptions, it assumes that the ice would be flexible enough to bend near melting and that it would snap back to its original shape, of course both of these things are kind of important for any bow so realistically those properties would be needed for her ice bow no matter what.

Does her bow still function with the archer's paradox?

Probably not because ice is not a particularly flexible material. It's fair to assume that Ashe's arrows do not and cannot bend, you really have to suspend disbelief to allow her bow to bend.

If not how does she get her arrows to fly straight around the riser?.

The only solution I can think of for that is if her arrows weren't completely frozen when Ashe fires them. If they're still frozen and do have a wooden core you could allow them to bend at the instance of shooting before the freezing process instants after being shot forced them to straighten out.

In game it is obviously 600 units, but in lore about how far could she loose an arrow?

If my theory of thermal draw was true, immense distances. She wouldn't be bothered by pesky things like having to actually draw the weight of her bow, she could impart the draw strength of a crossbow or potentially even higher with a draw that physically felt like pulling on a string attached to nothing. All she'd need is to manipulate the temperature by a high enough margin to force the bow to snap back with an extreme force.

Of course with the extreme distance comes extreme power. Ashe would be imparting absurd amounts of energy into her arrows, she'd probably have similar amounts of penetration behind her arrows at shorter ranges as a modern fire arm. Ashe probably wouldn't have problems shooting her arrows through even high quality armour.

This method of draw would also help to explain how Ashe can shoot arrows quickly and over what seems like fairly long distances, she's not actually pulling the draw she needs to fire those distances.

Leftover Takeout3/6/2017, 3:48:48 AM2 votes

I believe it is stated that she is the descendent of Avarosa, one of the original Iceborn who freed the Freljord from the Frozen Watchers. That would explain her proficiency at using her bow, a hand-me-down from Avarosa herself, and her use of icy magic.

With that said, I like your observations on the details of her archery. Regarding the draw weight, although I know next to nothing about archery, I can't imagine that a bow made out of ice, albeit magical True Ice, would be very easy to draw back. ("Who makes a bow out of ice?") I'm sure Ashe's magical powers would allow her to wield it as if it were made of a more typical material. Either way, that probably spells a higher range and possibly more power than what other elite archers in Runeterra can manage.

I'm quite curious on your further thoughts on this. I don't find many threads like this, so I'd love to have a conversation on this!

Nylisa3/9/2017, 5:48:13 AM1 votes

my assumptions about being married to Tryndamere is that she fears Serjuani! Tryn Barbaric warriors are good meat-shield in case sejuani finally decides to retaliate! and ashe doesnt strike me as one who cares about such matters , using people to further her cause that is , she did not care what sejuani wants when she decided to proclaim herself to be the queen even though she had as much right to be the leader as Ashe did.

at some point Riot did mention that there were reasons beyond political union behind their marriage but that team and idea is long gone.

GULAG 4 U3/6/2017, 3:59:15 AM1 votes

"Wow tryndameres tribe died to a super minion"

Aatrox feels very offended lol.

Papa Andrei3/6/2017, 6:56:59 AM1 votes

Well from my studies of our history and modern psychology, I can try and answer a few questions.

The Gender and Age thing was already answered, quite well alsoz

But the Tryndamere X Ashe lore may be retconned, but if we take what we know is considered to still be true, (Ashe being Queen, Tryn being the sole survivor driven semi-mad by Aatrox magic) we can assume a more "Beauty and the Beast" type of love. Ashe probably met him while out hunting or trying to meditate, he was probably in a rage, there was a fight, she kicked his ass, took Tryn prisoner, and a week of questioning/informing goes by, he gets put into her guard, they get closer, and now he is king!

Felvyne3/6/2017, 10:07:00 AM1 votes

Mind if I ask, what's the archer paradox?

Epicurus3/6/2017, 1:14:51 PM1 votes

For example, Riven. Who is well versed in Ki and could see through the mask of Elise's enchantments over her followers and caught a glimpse of Elise's true form.

When did this happen? I didn't know we had Riven lore.

LostFr0st3/6/2017, 1:19:08 PM1 votes

On the topic of gender and the Freljord: Due to them having to be a hunter/gatherer culture (due to physical environment) I wouldn't be surprised if their culture was matriarchal (I think it is) so a female leader would be more normal for her people. I think her age was the big thing. I think the others here pegged the effect of that on the other runeterran societies pretty well.