Fiora and Lux are still listed as each other's rivals. Here's an idea on how it could work.

darkdill··12 votes·9,058 views

Riot has never really explained a good reason as to why Lux and Fiora are classified as rivals. It can't just be a noble family feud thing, or Fiora would also consider Garen a rival (and she doesn't). This means that something specifically between the two Demacian ladies had to happen.

Here's my own theory, but take it with a grain of salt.

During one of her discrete missions, Lux uses her light magic to do a good deed, but Fiora spots her using her magic. Fiora later accosts Lux in private and blackmails her, wanting to use Lux's influence to help the Laurent family return to power. Lux is left desperately trying to find a way to turn the tables on Fiora.

Could this work, or is it too much politics?

79 Comments

RiotRiotJaredan17 votes

I love the thinking, and what I'm about to say doesn't negate your speculation, but the Champ-info page is pretty outdated.

I wouldn't take the rivals and allies too seriously any longer, and I'd say stick with Universe for canon information as it's updated.

ProtestantCaesar2 votes

Lux is still listed on the Universe page as being related to Fiora somehow, though.

RiotRiotJaredan16 votes

Yup, but that relationship isn't defined as being a 'rival' per se.

Rolling Girl4 votes

LUX AND FIORA SITTING IN A TREE

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

How do character relationships work in Universe? It's not really clear to me, and sometimes, at least on my phone iirc, it can be hard to see them.

RiotRiotJaredan2 votes

It's an aspect that isn't fully developed yet.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Question, why is tham kench aatrox's ally?

RiotRiotJaredan5 votes

They both love barbecue.

Seriously, I'm personally not entirely sure they would be allies. They have very different ways of going about things. And they are two very different types of, well, thing. If their plans crossed in a way that was mutually beneficial, I don't see them being against the idea of going along with what causes the most grief/destruction.

I'll poke WAAAAARGHBobo about it. He's deep in the Kench.

Wow that came out badly.

midnight oil241 votes

This raises an interesting question: what's your stance on actually pairing characters off in-canon? I can see doing that leading to a lot of hate from fans of a ship that doesn't get supported, and also could limit the world. I like the Lux to Ez interaction, as it did a good job of shutting down the ship, but what is the stance on characters in relationships as a possibility in the story? And would there ever be anything besides straight couples? Just curious on that last one.

RiotRiotJaredan8 votes

Relationships between characters will absolutely happen, have happened, and are happening. It just depends on if it makes sense from a dramatic standpoint, and if it doesn't make the world feel very small.

If someone from the Freljord is dating someone from Shurima, if someone from Bilgewater is dating someone from Demacia, and these sort of things keep happening, and keep happening between actual Champs, it makes it seem like everyone is living next door to each other and our Champs are common-place.

But if it works for reasons that give good focus and contrast on both characters (I can't stand 'fridging,' for example) and doesn't undermine the world, then sure, we'll do that. We already are.

Oh, and portrayals of relationships other than straight couples? Yup!

Overlord Forte1 votes

An issue arises on the flip side, though: Champions who inhabit and only interact within their own 'faction circle' detach into their own little bubble. Fully isolated factions essentially become their own canon at that point, only tangentially interacting with each others (mostly through war and invasion as can be seen right now). The globalization effect of the world becoming smaller is a symptom of more developed nation interacting together, is it not?

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

Not if it's handled in a way that feels organic, that shows that world growing, of pausing to write a story to show the conflict between cultures, the drivers behind change.

We're telling the story of Runeterra and the Champs (and other characters) who live on it. Europe is comparatively small to Africa and North America in landmass, but there's a huge amount of history.

It's just about portraying it in a way that gives opportunity. Of course, we're not going to limit ourselves to telling stories about people interacting with others from within their own areas (The Bird and the Branch, Shadow and Fortune, and Burning Tides, are examples showing we already do that).

I would say that each area does need to have good intrinsic stories to tell. It's just about balancing the local and the global, the personal, and the political, and the micro and the macro stories.

We can have localized arcs that tell the story of two people in a village, and we can tell Infinity War style epics, including people coming together who find each other in ways they never could have foretold.

It's one of the things I love about Runeterra, there are so many options.

We're just trying to have variety, and make that world feel alive.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

I actually really like the regional focus, it feels like you guys are putting in good foundations for future stories but I also just like that every region is like a different subgenre of fantasy.

would make a pretty great RPG world tbh

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

Yup, that's the point of world building, making sure you have distinctiveness between regions (because if you don't why do you have two of the same thing?) that allow for different characters and stories.

New characters, stories, and details on regions are meant to build a world. If it's not new, it isn't building, it's detracting overall from the identity, especially if, like Runeterra, it's an identity based on being eclectic.

Hellioning2 votes

You need to make regions distinct, yes, but you also need to make those regions feel like parts of the same world. What makes Demacia 'a place in Runeterra' instead of just 'a place'? What commonalities do Demacia and Ionia share? Ionia and Noxus? Demacia and Bilgewater?

We have a steampunk Victorian city directly on top of an industrial wasteland, a magic-fearing quasi-medieval European country getting attacked by standard fantasy vikings, and a pan-Asian, spiritual archipelago sharing an ocean with a Haitian pirate's haven.

I like each individually, but I'm having trouble figuring out how they make a bigger whole. Runeterra is a big place, but I couldn't tell you the first thing about it beyond 'fantasy world'.

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

When you can talk about the various nations and identities within thrm as being distinctive, how they interact, the conflicts between them and why those conflicts wax and wane, that is when you have the whole of the nation, and then, as you understand them and they interact, of the larger world.

We haven't built all that, that's true. We're first building clarity in various identities and cultures, and showing some friction when they interact. Nation vs. Nation conflicts and relationships are certainly in our plans (we've already made clear that Noxus vs. Ionia is still a major historical event, it's just we still have a number of elements of both of those 'cultures' (because they themselves contain a variety of sub-cultures) to really make those similarities and wild differences clear.

When the context is clear, things matter more. Sometimes we can do that within the events themselves, sometimes we need to create understanding first.

Until then, it won't be as powerful without the full context. Until you understand what Noxus is and what Ionia is (even from a general characteristic standpoint, and preferably as represented by clear, reosnant characters with their own motivations) the story of various conflicts between those nations won't matter as much.

Will there be overarcing stories that give a certain element of united purpose, or involve a large group of nations? Absolutely.

But there will also be stories about the growth and conflict within nations, within families, within relationships, and within individuals.

We want to do all those kinds of stories, and we're building to them. We just can't do them all at once, and often for very good reasons that will improve the quality and resonance of those events when we do them.

Hellioning2 votes

Man, in, like, three years when you're done with all of this retconning and can actually do stuff besides 'here's what's different about THIS group of champions!' it's gonna be pretty sweet.

Just getting tired of waiting.

Hellioning3 votes

And if relationships happen exclusively between champs from the same area, then it feels like your world is a bunch of islands that have very little contact between each other. And a relationship between a champion and a non-champion runs the risk of the non-champion being defined exclusively as 'that champion's lover'.

RiotRiotJaredan5 votes

I didn't mean to say that can't happen (relationships outside of an area). I meant if it keeps on happening. In other words, if half of those who are in relationships are in them with people from across the continent, it makes the world small.

Can it happen? Of course. Should it happen to the point it becomes damaging? Nope.

There's a sweet spot.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

wyd about annie though why is she just a modern schoolgirl with fire magic lol

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

Her outfit has always confused me...

Hellioning2 votes

But it hasn't happened yet. It can't 'keep on happening' if almost no one has relationships outside their city-state island.

I agree with your basic point, to an extent. If your goal is to make your world seem big, you need to have emotional distance between your characters in addition to physical distance. But I'd rather have a small world than a big one, personally.

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

We haven't done many of the relationships (Gangplank and Illaoi and <redacted!> aside), partly because we're still building, and so there are lots of stories still to tell.

I understand the desire for a small world, I love New York in Marvel's universe, for example, but Runeterra isn't a small world. We're only on Valoran and the surrounding landmasses yet, and that already includes incredibly varied and rich ground to grow from.

For me, it's about making the storytelling feel personal and focused, even when you are fighting for the existence of the universe.

EDIT: The cool thing about NY in Marvel is it's as small as they want it to be. If you look at it with any logic, every time a fight kicked off in New York, you should expect The Avengers, Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Daredevil, Luke Cage, Danny Rand (don't get me started on the Netflix show. Ooof!), Jessica Jones, White Tiger, Moon Knight, The Punisher, and about a dozen others all to turn up within five minutes. But they don't because then every story would have to be a cataclysm. Instead, they bump into each other when it's convenient and don't when it isn't. Though it doesn't really make a lot of sense in reality.

We're just not going with that approach. It doesn't mean we can't do similar stories.

Hellioning3 votes

I don't just mean romantic relationships, though that is what the conversation was about. I just mean relationships in general. There's just Yasuo helping out Taliyah as interaction between champs of different city states, I think.

I'm glad you're excited, Jaredan. But I'm just getting tired of still not being out of the prologue of almost everyone's stories. It's been, what, 3 years since Exploring Runeterra? I don't want to make this old lore vs. new, but I'm getting kinda scared that we won't see an actual chapter 2 or 3 for most champs until 2020 or something.

I understand your desire for personal stories. This game's lore is, at it's core, about the champions. Those are the only link between the game and the lore, and they need to be the most important parts of any story that you tell. But you can get to a point where talking about only one person's perspective can bore you. Sure, it's theoretically cool that we're looking into this one random soldier's head as Darius just murders his entire squad, but there's only so invested you can get into a story when it's just one skirmish in one battle in one war, you know?

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

Yep, you're spot on.

Chapters 2, 3 and so on need to happen.

That's all i can say for now though, sorry.

Tattersall2 votes

We haven't done many of the relationships (Gangplank and Illaoi and <redacted!> aside), partly because we're still building, and so there are lots of stories still to tell.

…

<redacted!>

Jaredan. Jardane what is this. What is this Jaraden. Am I being an idiot Jaderan? Or is this a hint? Don't lie to me Jardean. I'll know if you're lying. It can't be MF, otherwise it wouldn't have been redacted. Who is it, Jarenad? Am I insane, Janedar? I feel a little insane. Is it MF? Am I an idiot? Both valid questions.

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes
  1. You are certainly not an idiot.

  2. MF does have a relationship with Gangplank, but I wouldn't call it romantic.

  3. <redacted!>

  4. I'm a terrible man.

DwarvenGiant2 votes

A terrible man with a PhD in teasing.

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

They've only given me the Ph so far. I'm still waiting for the rest. No dirty jokes, please.

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

IcyPepper1 votes

Did you just thumbs up yourself

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

It's frustrating because I still don't fully grasp the scope of what Riot is trying to do. For better or worse, old lore was like a fighting game. Characters from all walks of life come together in a single setting to fight with and against one another for their own goals. New lore feels like you're making a fantasy world with the style and impact of comic books, the scale of Game of Thrones, but with the waiting period of a Berserk chapter (used to be HunterxHunter bad).

Writers take years to release new content, but they normally know where their story is going (beginning, middle, and end). Comic book writers have hundreds of characters, but only focus on less than a quarter of them. You expect us to believe that with over 130+ champions and growing, you can give each of them their own unique plot line with occasional meetings with others?

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

I completely understand your perspective but to answer your final question: Yup, to be honest, they're built that way.

Whenever we make a new Champ, or update one, we figure out their arcs so we know at what point in their life we're releasing them into the wild. As other stories or Champs come along, those internal stories can change, but they're there.

You're right in that you haven't seen enough of this, we've been working on it a while, and longer than we wanted. However, we're ramping up as we build the teams and resources to make it happen, as well as put in place the structures and processes to track it all.

I'm not saying you can expect 130+ different stories featuring every Champ as the star of their own issue/book/animation in the space of a year. But there isn't a Champion on the roster that we haven't talked about where they are going, what possibilities for story there are, and what sort of interactions we'd like. Except Jax. He tells us.

Every Champ has some journey to go on, it's a fundamental part of creating a character (Motivation + Personality + Journey (arc) being shorthand) and something we keep in mind.

Our goal is to make every Champ resonant to the players. Not necessarily all at once, we're happy with making some Champs who are niche, and sometimes we happen to make Champs we think are niche that turn out to be very popular for various reasons.

For that resonance, we need to bake in a sense of where they are going. Sometimes for our older Champs we need to look at that while we are doing VGUs, but for our newer Champs, we have at least general plans for all of them.

WarWork1 votes

Except Aatrox

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

Oh we have plans for that fella. Oh yes, we have plans...

DwarvenGiant2 votes

WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE TEASING THING, DAMNIT.

######Keep going, though, please.

midnight oil242 votes

I mean, you've done a good job with having resonating characters so far. I identify with Lux a bit (more in the opinions and keeping major secrets about myself portions than other things), but even some weirder ones. I had a surgery to handle lung collapse recently, and it involved tubes pumping things in and out of my body. Suddenly, new Warwick appears, being the result of a surgery that involves tubes pumping things in and out of him. I instantly felt that connection, and love playing him.

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

Thanks! And I'm glad you're feeling better!

midnight oil242 votes

Aww, thanks! What are champs that resonate with you, lore or design-wise, as long as you're here? I'm genuinely curious.

RiotRiotJaredan5 votes

Pretty much all of them, and my focus changes depending on what I'm working on, or what's caught my attention and got me thinking. At the moment (and this isn't indicative of what I'm actually working on): Ashe (character potential and gameplay), Sona (she's my main), Swain (patriotic, brutal, strategic genius), Ryze (burdened with a huge responsibility, looking for hope after centuries of having very little), and someone I hope might be a Champ one day.

Spideraxe1 votes

someone I hope might be a Champ one day

Your thinking of Jeff Kaplan aren't you

TeCoolMage2 votes

<redacted!>

XAYAH AND RAKAN

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Rude Name1 votes

If I may lure Your Greatness over here with a humble query?

Have you considered, in depth, writing a tale of something which isn't Champion-centered? Something which MIGHT feature a champion only as a supporting character at best? A Good Death is, without a doubt, one of the best stories in League history, and it only features Kindred, not as the main character. It would be amazing to see more of these stories, but further in depth. Not to explore the champions, but to explore the universe. A tale of someone or something easing up on the 5k words collectively, over multiple tales of someone who really don't matter at all.

midnight oil242 votes

Okay, thank you for clearing this up.

I just hope you guys keep the Lux x Ez ship down ;) was never a fan of it, mostly because of Ez.

What's fridging?

And yes! Representation in major media that isn't a joke character! Thank you!

Hellioning2 votes

Fridging is 'a female character having something bad happening to her specifically to motivate a male character', though some people use it without having gender factor into it. It's named after one of Green Lantern's girlfriends, who a bad guy killed, butchered, and stuffed into a fridge.

RiotRiotJaredan4 votes

Lux has a lot on her plate trying to keep her power a secret, working through her relationship with the brother she adores, and now, adventures with her favorite Demacian colossus.

Lithillya1 votes

{quoted}

Lux has a lot on her plate trying to keep her power a secret, working through her relationship with the brother she adores, and now, adventures with her favorite Demacian colossus.

Speaking of Lux, since it's not mentioned in her new lore, has the part where Demacia indoctrinates their youth into following their ideals still part of the story, or has it been retconned? I personally thought it added depth to the faction, a young girl by her family to the state, despite what she herself wanted. Spending her nights crying herself to sleep, or distracting herself with the code she's expected to adhere to before finally finding herself having become what everyone wanted her to be, yet feeling entirely hollow at what'd been done.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Will portrayals of non-straight couples involve champions themselves? I'm not sure how much a character should be defined by their orientation, but it's hard to tell what's the orientation of most champions, without assuming they're straight.

RiotRiotJaredan3 votes

Yes, I'm very confident of that.

EDIT: Sometimes folks think I speak for all of Riot when I say things, but this is me talking from my perspective and position on League and other... stuff.

More from Story, Art, & Sound

More by darkdill