So we have a "good Noxian" in Riven. But why is there no "evil Demacian"?

darkdill··11 votes·4,640 views

ITT: Lucian doesn't count. He still fights the good fight. And Fiora's not evil, just snobby.

Why is there no Demacian who exploits the legal system for his/her own gains, or manipulates politics for selfish reasons? Too hard to write?

EDIT: For Vayne, she SOMEWHAT qualifies, but IMO she could be written as a non-Demacian and it wouldn't entirely matter.

EDIT: Here's how I'd do it (roughly). (I'm using the name Nephree to represent the Champion in question.)

Nephree is a member of Demacia's Justicars, who are kinda like detectives/police/royal guards/etc. At one point in her career, Nephree becomes witness to a murder, but the killer is a highly-respected noble, who uses a spell to confuse her and then pins the murder on her. Due to the noble's meticulousness, all the evidence points to her, and her word that she is being framed is met with disbelief by the city guards. She is forced to run, evading capture.

While hiding, Nephree desperately tries to think of a way to prove her innocence. At this time, she is approached by Aatrox, who offers her a Darkin sword as a way to give her the power she needs to bring the murderer to justice. Desperate, she accepts, but becomes cursed by the sword.

Nephree returns to Demacia and confronts the nobleman, defeating his guards and arresting him. As Jarvan IV arrives (the two are old friends), Nephree is able to make the nobleman confess to the murder and to framing her. But then, before she can hand the noble over to Jarvan to be imprisoned, the sword's curse makes Nephree lose control and she kills the noble.

Nephree is not charged for murder because Jarvan knows that the sword made her do it, and she could not resist. However, due to the curse, Nephree cannot compel herself to get rid of the sword, nor can she or anyone else in Demacia destroy it. Nephree now seeks to find Aatrox again to get the Darkin Blade to free her of the curse, one way or another.

NOTE! The whole "pin the murder on her" thing isn't impossible. Hard, but not impossible.

58 Comments

sp4416 votes

Maybe a Knight Templar, somebody that upholds the ideals of Justice and Valor to unrealistic levels, executing anybody who deviates even slightly of his strict code of moral.

darkdill3 votes

That sounds like Garen 2.0, but it could work.

sp4414 votes

Garen is still reasonable and kind, I meant somebody like Jarvan IV without any shred of kindness in his heart. Somebody who would kill Veigar for calling himself evil, Zac for being created as a weapon, or Gnar for being violent whenever he gets angry.

lorewise2 votes

But just look at him, he's got that deceptively Midwest boy vibe about him that's all charm and yes ma'am until he gets drunk and starts beating his dog or going on a racist rant about Yordles. Garen

sp4415 votes

Nah, Garen only gets drunk on Demacia.

And also eats Demacia.

And breathes Demacia.

And doesn't have any idea how to operate in normal life because Demacia.

(I like the idea of Garen being so devoted to his country that he completely forgot everything about social interaction)

LordHippoman4 votes

Well he didn't really give a damn about his sister being literally dragged screaming into military service because "Demacia." Poor Garen. Seems like a good guy, but he can barely see beyond his nationality.

Well unless it's Katarina . Who he trusted and let in Demacia. Which was character growth. Which happened in the JoJ.

OuttaControl561 votes

He was also part of that system. Maybe he's just resigned to the fact that Lux had to do it, because he had to go through it.

Mjaxon1 votes

But just look at him, he's got that deceptively Midwest boy vibe about him that's all charm and yes ma'am until he gets drunk and starts beating his dog or going on a racist rant about Yordles. Garen

Well, there was that magazine cover where Kat had a swollen lip and a black eye.

lorewise1 votes

I thought that was *all *Demacians.

sp4412 votes

Nah, they're still the prototypical good guys.

I do hope that Riot balances out in the future and show that both Noxus and Demacia have good and bad points to their respective philosophies.

lorewise1 votes

I hope so too.

NeoJusteBelmont2 votes

I thought the example with Lux's League Judgment already showed that. Or maybe you guys want something more blatant?

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that...

LordHippoman3 votes

The issue with it, I think, is that Lux's judgement is the only bad Demacian thing. Like at all. All that stuff about getting executed for any crime or whatever is completely fanon and never confirmed, in fact it's outright deconfirmed, since in the JoJ Sivir went on a drunk joyride around Demacia and they were basically like "Stop that."

Meanwhile the Noxians genocide Alistar's entire race north of the Great Barrier, have slavery, arena deathmatches with slaves, serial killers living on the streets, invaded Ionia because "lol evil" and nuked their own soldiers with chemical weapons. They also live on top of a giant skull.

But they have more class fluidity I guess? So...uh...shades of gray?

KiteMeGood1 votes

For a Demacian to be "evil" is to take the purifier's creed and run with it to a point where the Demacian prefers a Quantity over quality personality. He thinks that it is easier to wipe out defenseless/poorly Noxites rather than embark on a crusade/suicide mission in the Shadow Isles. He also remarks how he enjoys Lucian's hardened personality and despised his "Protect the innocent" act when his wife was still around.

Dreamspitter1 votes

Maybe a Knight Templar, somebody that upholds the ideals of Justice and Valor to unrealistic levels, executing anybody who deviates even slightly of his strict code of moral.

For The God Emperor King of Demacia.

Solideus5 votes

How about a dark Robin Hood; a protector of the lower class with violent means?

WestTiger5 votes

In the beginning, Riot wrote both factions of Demacia and Noxus with some area of grey. They were still obviously 'light and dark', but Demacia was still a feudal system that depended on a royal bloodline for government, and had compulsory conscription.

Noxus, by fully believing in might/ability makes right, is technically a meritocracy after their own military coup of their own royal families. Heck Swain was noted as being disabled, but basically clawed his way up the ranks by being a more able commander (plus raven powers helped).

Morgana was rejected by Demacia, and basically was only allowed to live in Noxus.

That said, Noxus is suppose to be xenophobic, although with the fact that 2 of their main champions are effectively zombies, their leader turns into a giant demon bird, and the fact that Riot never established what are 'normal humans' in Runeterra, I always felt that last part was tacked on to make Noxus look 'evil' more clearly in comparison to Demacia in hindsight.

Ironclad Dragon3 votes

That'd be too interesting.

darkdill1 votes

Lol, so Riot couldn't POSSIBLY write it. Of course... (sarcasm)

LeeDark3 votes

Lol, so Riot couldn't POSSIBLY write it. Of course...

FTFY

GenoXx3 votes

A dark knight character is needed. That's a good concept for an evil Demacian. But Narrative have too much freljord pride to do anything like that.

GenoXx4 votes

Nope lol can't be Anime is too cliché for league. But everything else is in the path I was talking about.

OuttaControl563 votes

There is no good Noxian. Sorry.

Riven isn't some goody two shoes, she just doesn't want Noxus to gas it's own soldiers. She still aligns with the ruthless and cold principles of Noxus, so calling her "good" is relative. She'd gladly put Demacia to flames.

Second, along these terms, Vayne is most definitely evil. She'd kill Annie. She probably consider Maokai or Zac as evil creatures. That's...... Definitely not good or demacian-like.

This character would have a tough time in appearing unique, sorry. We've been through this about 5000 times.

darkdill1 votes

I don't hear Riven saying anything bad toward Demacians. To her, if she were still a soldier of Noxus, they'd just be an opponent, not a hated enemy.

Besides, have you read Cerubois' Guiding Light? Might be fanfiction, but it's very believable.

OuttaControl561 votes

Its fanfiction all the same. You want me to write a convincing fanfiction of Riven being a harsh and unforgiving avenger trying to return Noxus to its former glory by force?

And as I said before. If you want to interpret Riven as a "good" person, then Vayne's actions and words should definitely paint her as evil. Vayne has no middle ground to speak of and only works towards the end of anything that is 'tainted' with black magic. Annie is an obvious target, along with her parents (ironic considering that's what Vayne had to suffer through), Kassadin is another target, even though he wants to protect Runeterra his corrupted form would not be acceptable. Same with Maokai.

So please, put Nephree to freaking rest. I know you really like Fate-Stay Night and Fire Emblem but please...

darkdill1 votes

So please, put Nephree to freaking rest. I know you really like Fate-Stay Night and Fire Emblem but please...

NEVAH!

OuttaControl561 votes

You aren't even defending it....

You just say Vayne can't be brought up because you're so obsessed with your own bloody fanon to care.

Love the passion, but you're completely unreasonable here.

Trylobyte3 votes

Riven Funny thing with Riven is that she's essentially a lot like Darius. Both hold the old Noxian ideals in very high regard and both want to 'fix' Noxus to be more in line with it. The difference is that Riven is, ultimately, weak-willed while Darius is not. Riven abandoned the system rather than trying to save it (while claiming she wants to) while Darius is willing to lead by example and fight the corruption on its home turf. When he sees his leaders doing something that disgusts him or pisses him off (wasting troops, for instance) he doesn't mope over it, he deals with them in the standard Noxian fashion, by killing them.

Riven isn't a nice, friendly Noxian any more than Darius is. They have the same beliefs. Riven is a cute 'broken bird' female with a sympathetic story, though, so she's painted in a better light than the cool, calculating, well-adjusted, not-as-cute-or-female Darius, even if Darius is the one out there Getting Shit Done.

Vayne Vayne is an enemy of black magic and doesn't really care where it comes from or what it's being used for. The only reason she doesn't come across as a fanatical zealot is because most users of black magic are, indeed, evil. I have no doubt, however, that she'd freely kill even morally-ambiguous cases like Annie or Ahri and would probably even take shots at the definitely-Good Kassadin. The only reason Vayne is still classed as a 'good guy' is because she hasn't gone after those champions in lore yet, and she has a lot of more blatantly evil targets to go through first.

Cerbearus2 votes

Well, JarvanIV is actually Leblanc

darkdill7 votes

No, it's revealed that Leb just used some of J4's blood to impersonate him temporarily.

That was inferred from the Sion preview.

Sharjo2 votes

There has yet to be an instance where the ideals behind being a Demacian have been questioned to our knowledge. As a result Demacia doesn't have deserters, because everyone's still hunkey dorey about how their nation operates.

Also as far as I remember Demacia's always been portrayed as a place where if you do exploitation of laws and people you get your arse handed to you. Even worse if you're someone of high birth, because you're supposed to be the shining standard for the nation.

Solideus2 votes

I seem to remember there was some divide between the high born and lower class; Quinn had to prove her worth because of her low birth, for example. High birth also had "advantages" in the eyes of the law, if I recall.

Melancholy Exile3 votes

Demacia is known for having a very rigid class structure. Jarvan's recognition of Quinn as someone worthy of the status and recognition she now holds was seen by many Demacians as an affront to their traditions because she isn't noble-born.

You're quite wrong on the other point though. Those of noble birth are likely to be more harshly punished for any offences as they are expected to exemplify their city-state's moral standards, thus making it all the worse when they fall from grace and show themselves up as less than perfect.

Solideus2 votes

Right, got that backwards. While reading up a bit I found the noble houses make up the Demacian Council who keeps an eye on the King. That would suggest that Fiora, who recently became the head of her family, might be part of this council? Interesting.

A Superb Villain2 votes

Vayne

Very one-track mind, extreme persistence, and very uncompromising. She has very good reasons for being the Night Hunter, but I can easily see her becoming too zealous in her crusade, something like the popular perception of the Inquisition; the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I am sure many people would disagree Vayne would ever go too far towards any truly evil actions, and even more would hate such a development, but the possibility is still there.

Lucian is a close second, but he appears more inclined to fight the Shadow Isles until he cannot fight anymore, while Vayne seems far more obsessed with finding and purging all evils.

Edasich2 votes

What about Shyvana? She doesn't care about justice, honor, or anything Demacia stands for at all.

darkdill3 votes

She's still loyal to Jarvan.

Life Of Nami2 votes

What about Shyvana? She doesn't care about justice, honor, or anything Demacia stands for at all.

Actually she does care to for demacia, but she's a vicious wildcard. She was offered to be an elite guard in Demacia because Jarvan saw how brutal and vicious she was.

But she most definately cares about Demacia and what demacia stands for.

SilverDrake2 votes

Hmm... sounds like someone wants helmet bro.

Thanotos Omega2 votes

Shyvana seems pretty morally neutral, she seems less loyal to demacia and more loyal to the place her only friend lives in,

I would prefer a nice rampaging experiment over a night templar type, some maddened super soldier who screams DEMACIA!!!! with anger and hate when he ults a Demacian Champion,

Champion Skin2 votes

Well Demacia is clearly not just a good happy place after all that can clearly be seen in Lux Judgement (which at least used to be a part of the official lore)

Though yeah we don't really see much to it in game or in any of the character lores

Angry Monster1 votes

[deleted]

darkdill2 votes

So my asking a question for people to think about is a "stupid thread"?

Reported.

As Seen On LCS1 votes

DEMACIA NEVER FALTERS.

Tesla Effect1 votes

[{quoted}](name=League of Landen,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0GiojOZz,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2014-10-17T01:07:08.475+0000)

DEMACIA NEVER FALTERS.

Or so they say that to each other make themselves feel like everything is okay.

Merxamers1 votes

I think it would be difficult to justify a flat-out 'evil' Demacian; a viable alternative could be an ultra 'Lawful Good' character type, all justice and zealotry with no mercy attached to it. That kind of character would be interesting to see; he/she could still be the hero of their own story, while being an antagonist to other 'good' characters

GreenLore1 votes

I wouldn't really call Riven a good noxian.She doesn't agree with the noxian principles,but she still believes that the strong should rule the weak.

Tesla Effect1 votes

We need more characters that go outside the norm, those that will say, "hey, not all of us are jerks or goody too shoes". We need more characters like Ekko, Riven, Veigar, Syndra, Lucian, (you can argue even Quinn fits in here cause she isnt from the Capital and so uptight)... that go outside of the typical way you would look at people from those nations. Next thing we need is a truly evil Demacian and an evil Piltover champion, heck a good Shadow Isles champion would be very interesting to see (I know Maokai kinda is and isnt from that place, but he seems very neutral in most cases, I mean a undead good guy.), or a lawfuly good Bilgewater champion.

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