So Riot, Question about Skins (Like Silver kayle/ Other hard to obtain skins.)

XUnholyWrathX·Jul 19, 2015·4 votes·26,741 views

When are we going to be able to get them once again, if in fact, they are going to be released? Last year, all codes from all promotional skins, be it Silver Kayle from the collectors edition, to say Pax TF / Pax Jax, and all other codes for such were literally deactivated. What about those who still wish to puchase or own the skins, but cannot put the code in due to them being deactivated? What about all the people who spend money to buy said things online and not get bamboozled, only to have them not work in the store?

Can we get a clear-cut answer, or else physically state that all codes before such and such time are unavailable to use? IS THERE REALLY A REASON WHY THEY WERE DEACTIVATED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

I want Silver Kayle, I never got her when I started years ago... so why cant I get her now or get a straight answer as to why?

That is all.

-Unholy

54 Comments

RiotmoonstonesJul 19, 201510 votes

Hiya!

We deactivated the older skin codes to due 3rd party sites scamming players, claiming they could buy rare skins like PAX TF, when in fact, they were given fake codes, or codes that had already been used.

We informed players in advance that we were doing this, so if they had codes hanging around, they had the opportunity to redeem them before the codes were deactivated. you can check out more information about why we decided to deactivate the codes here.

I agree with Chat97 that there is some uniqueness to having a skin from beta, or even Victorious skins from previous seasons, and selling them now would leave bad sentiments to those who earned them during x event.

I understand the frustration that arises, especially if you've joined the game, and don't have the opportunity to buy/use these skins, however, at this time, we do not have plans to make these rare skins (Silver Kayle, PAX skins, etc.) available for distribution/purchase.

ZarxisJul 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-07-19T01:23:58.375+0000)

I agree with Chat97 that there is some uniqueness to having a skin from beta, or even Victorious skins from previous seasons, and selling them now would leave bad sentiments to those who earned them during x event.

"Bad sentiments" and "uniqueness" didn't stop Riot from re-releasing non-event "limited" skins. This could be considered some sort of hypocrisy-Inception. "We're going to re-release these particular limited skins, meaning they'll be made non-exclusive and a kick in the teeth to the original owners, but the other limited skins will remain limited." It's very difficult for me to write reduced-sodium posts anymore because of decisions like these.

RiotmoonstonesJul 24, 20153 votes

Having bad sentiments around skins I feel are primarily in instances where the skin is earned, and not purchased. This includes Victorious skins, King Rammus, etc. That's not to say that making some limited skins legacy didn't have some negative responses.

Are you referring to the limited skins (winter games, and some of the other holiday-themed)?

When deciding to do this, we wanted to make sure players who previously owned the skin were acknowledged and didn't feel like something that was special to them wasn't as special now. We also wanted to be clear that we believe skins are primarily about self-expression and fun, not exclusivity.

The list of skins converted from limited to legacy were Harrowing 2010 & 2011 skins, Snowdown Showdown 2009 & 2010 skins, Winter Games 2010 skins and World Cup 2010 skins.

For players who already had these skins prior to the change, we offered:

RP equal to the price paid originally for the skin
A vintage border
A summoner icon

As noted in the announcement for this change -

Limited Edition skins that were once in the store but are not part of these events (Rusty Blitzcrank, Urf Warwick, Championship Riven, Riot Singed). If these skins are ever brought back, they will be treated similarly.
Earned Limited Edition skins that were rewarded for events or achievements and never appeared in the store (PAX Twisted Fate, King Rammus, Victorious Jarvan, UFO Corki, etc.).We have no plans to make these skins available.
Other Legacy skins (Riot K9 Nasus, Zombie Brand, Nottingham Ezreal, etc.), which may still come back into the store from time to time without compensation.

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on this, as you sound like you have some strong opinions on the topic.

ZarxisJul 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-07-24T17:00:38.345+0000)

Having bad sentiments around skins I feel are primarily in instances where the skin is earned, and not purchased. This includes Victorious skins, King Rammus, etc. That's not to say that making some limited skins legacy didn't have some negative responses.

Are you referring to the limited skins (winter games, and some of the other holiday-themed)?

When deciding to do this, we wanted to make sure players who previously owned the skin were acknowledged and didn't feel like something that was special to them wasn't as special now. We also wanted to be clear that we believe skins are primarily about self-expression and fun, not exclusivity.

The list of skins converted from limited to legacy were Harrowing 2010 & 2011 skins, Snowdown Showdown 2009 & 2010 skins, Winter Games 2010 skins and World Cup 2010 skins.

For players who already had these skins prior to the change, we offered:

RP equal to the price paid originally for the skin

A vintage border

A summoner icon

As noted in the announcement for this change -

Limited Edition skins that were once in the store but are not part of these events (Rusty Blitzcrank, Urf Warwick, Championship Riven, Riot Singed). If these skins are ever brought back, they will be treated similarly.

Earned Limited Edition skins that were rewarded for events or achievements and never appeared in the store (PAX Twisted Fate, King Rammus, Victorious Jarvan, UFO Corki, etc.).We have no plans to make these skins available.

Other Legacy skins (Riot K9 Nasus, Zombie Brand, Nottingham Ezreal, etc.), which may still come back into the store from time to time without compensation.

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on this, as you sound like you have some strong opinions on the topic.

I'm glad that the Victorious skins have remained exclusive, but I have no reason to believe that they will remain that way other than to wait out the duration of LoL's lifespan to see if Riot actually keeps its word [this time].

I believe that the exclusivity of the former limited skins was their primary form of value. The tidbits Riot gave out [in exchange for trampling over old promises] were not worth the loss of that value, in my opinion (and I doubt I'm alone in that belief— I witnessed the community's backlash).

I'm not sure why some skins (the old PAX skins, Rusty Blitzcrank, etc. — non-earned skins) were exempt from the change; the same reasons given for making the limited skins that were made into legacy skins also applied to these skins. They were not earned, and they would be appreciated by newer members of the community (if only for their value as old novelties), yet they were treated differently. The exemption for Victorious skins makes sense; the exemption of these "other" skins does not. Even if the PAX skins were given away for free, they were still effectively purchased because it costs money to attend PAX, does it not?

RiotmoonstonesJul 24, 20152 votes

The PAX skins were meant to be a memento for players who attended PAX. While yes, it costs money to go to PAX, I wouldn't agree that players paid for the skin. We understand that PAX skins were skins that, due to limited availability, created some negative feelings, which is why we've moved away from 'PAX skins', and have been giving out various other skins at events.

I don't have much more context regarding why some limited were changed and not others, as it was before I started at Riot, unfortunately. D:

Bandle City BotJul 24, 20152 votes

I don't have much more context regarding why some limited were changed and not others, as it was before I started at Riot, unfortunately. D:

No biggie. Thank you for taking the time and engaging us, a small part of the community, in a discussion about a topic you felt you could talk about based on your position at Riot.

One final thought I might pose, back to your initial response to my ideas. If enough people are asking for things anything like what was suggested, which part of the community is more vocal about their feelings? The people who want the content, or people who want to protect their special feelings? If you guys can definitively say that it is the users who want to protect their special feelings, say so and simply offer a poll at say, the end of each season to see if that feeling changes. If it is the people who want the content, shouldn't you pick the lesser of evils and give what the more vocal part of your customers want?

Just thoughts.

RiotmoonstonesJul 24, 20152 votes

No worries! Again, thanks for voicing your ideas and feedback!

TL;DR to your questions - YES! Before we'd make any kind of change, we'd absolutely research the issue. This is always a heated debate, which means it wouldn't be a flip of the coin decision. :]

Legacy of XionJul 25, 20152 votes

Hey Katey.

I'm a massive Kayle plan and I main her (Jungle Kayle now, Sated Devourer really makes her awesome) and I have all but 3 Kayle Skins - Silver, Viridian, and Judgement.

Bow, neither appeared in the store...but Silver was available through the bought physical edition, and Judgement was rewarded to EVERYONE after a certain season. Neither were "exclusive" but didn't show up in the store.

Is there any way huge fans like me, can get skins we were unable to get or were a season too late to get? (Like me and Judgement Kayle)?

RiotmoonstonesJul 27, 20152 votes

Hey Legacy of Xion,

Currently, there is no way to obtain Silver or Judgment Kayle.

Legacy of XionJul 27, 20151 votes

But will there possibly be one in the future?

RiotmoonstonesJul 27, 20152 votes

As it currently stands, we don't have plans to make them available. I can't speak to what may happen in the future, as no decisions have been made regarding the change in availability.

Legacy of XionJul 27, 20151 votes

Oh well...

RueianJul 27, 20151 votes

The victorious skin system should be rethought. People should be allowed to just pick from the currently available victorious skins each season they make it to gold.

SSmotzerJul 19, 20156 votes

Because you can't. There is no possible way for you to get a skin that is currently not available in the store. Some skins will be retired, forever, never to be sold again. Why? Because Riot can, and they want those people who were able to get the skin when it was available to feel honored that they cared enough about the game to get an impossible to obtain skin. Reselling those skins would make all of the people who bought the original collectors edition to have what was unique to them to become diminished in value. If they resold King Rammus, all of the people who played during the beta would feel like their dedication to the game is being diminished.

XUnholyWrathXJul 19, 20154 votes

The downvotes are expected, but this question is more in response to the lack of clarity to those around for those whom have probably never heard of the thing. I already know they have these kind of rules in place, but where are they exactly written?

Also, Batman, The problem is, I was given the actual collectors pack as well when I started the game, but guess what? The code was used already and Riot couldn't do anything about it, even through the legit sale of the product. (Nor could you return it and claim otherwise if its a gift from a relative after opening etc.) It frustrates me to all hell that I could've had it back then, but, I didn't mind considering it was a gift and they didn't know. I've played the game for years at that, and it bugs me now more than ever, but I can do nothing.

Now what about the people who are still being scammed then? What about there being an actual disclaimer telling people straight up they don't work anymore? I already know about the impossible to obtain skins, E.G Judgement Kayle?/ The Corki skin/ Urf WW etc? Any of the Victorious Skins from past seasons? Hell, I could care less and I would simply want clarity.

RiotmoonstonesJul 19, 20152 votes

I already know they have these kind of rules in place, but where are they exactly written?

We have a Code Card FAQ located on the Support page. :]

Now what about the people who are still being scammed then? What about there being an actual disclaimer telling people straight up they don't work anymore?

(Quoted from the FAQ)

"While some websites or individuals sell Riot code cards on the Internet, they are almost always doing so with fraudulent intent (i.e. those codes are usually redeemed, expired or stolen). As we do not support 3rd party re-sellers, please avoid buying stuff from Internet Strangers! We will not be able to help you if your 3rd party code does not work for any reason."

Hope this helps!

XUnholyWrathXJul 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-07-19T02:20:47.106+0000)

We have a Code Card FAQ located on the Support page. :]

(Quoted from the FAQ)

"While some websites or individuals sell Riot code cards on the Internet, they are almost always doing so with fraudulent intent (i.e. those codes are usually redeemed, expired or stolen). As we do not support 3rd party re-sellers, please avoid buying stuff from Internet Strangers! We will not be able to help you if your 3rd party code does not work for any reason."

Hope this helps!

Thank you Katey, you seem to be one of the most active Rioters on the boards, especially on this side of things. Like right now, I can see just how or what can happen, but another thing arises, regardless of the FAQ. (

What of those whom sell on say, a place that can back up something's legimatecy? Like Amazon? (Where in general, if something is new, unopened or otherwise very much legit) is backed by guarantees? XD I can see it if it were like Ebay, but considering I've never seen someone not report/post up whom is scamming on Amazon. Can Riot legitimately pull back all those things, or mass recall them as well? (from what remains?) and fix that issue?

And, truthfully, I hope eventually that they become active again (I mean, cmon, I even said I wanted the skin, I can admit to that?) or there is something along the lines of even the possibility of it happening.

RiotmoonstonesJul 23, 20154 votes

Skins are my specialty. ^-^

We don't support third party selling of skin cards, even if there's some kind of guarantee.

As for what remains, old cards have been deactivated, which means the people claiming to have skin does are selling fake/used/deactivated codes. I can't speak to pulling back false content, or how we handle that, as it's a bit out of my knowledge base for these things, but we have been proactive when it comes to informing players of the mass deactivation when it was done, as well as discussing precautions they can take to be safe and not fall into getting scammed on the FAQ site.

At this time, we don't have plans to sell or make skins like PAX TF, Silver Kayle, King Rammus available again. These skin signified events such as Pre-ordered a hard copy of League of Legends, attending PAX, or being a part of the League of Legends beta. Making these skins available again would likely create a bad feeling for the players who earned this skins for doing specific things. It would be a similar feeling if you earned Victorious Janna, and now she's available to everyone.

KreemyJul 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T18:41:10.731+0000)

Skins are my specialty. ^-^

We don't support third party selling of skin cards, even if there's some kind of guarantee.

As for what remains, old cards have been deactivated, which means the people claiming to have skin does are selling fake/used/deactivated codes. I can't speak to pulling back false content, or how we handle that, as it's a bit out of my knowledge base for these things, but we have been proactive when it comes to informing players of the mass deactivation when it was done, as well as discussing precautions they can take to be safe and not fall into getting scammed on the FAQ site.

At this time, we don't have plans to sell or make skins like PAX TF, Silver Kayle, King Rammus available again. These skin signified events such as Pre-ordered a hard copy of League of Legends, attending PAX, or being a part of the League of Legends beta. Making these skins available again would likely create a bad feeling for the players who earned this skins for doing specific things. It would be a similar feeling if you earned Victorious Janna, and now she's available to everyone.

"Skins are my specialty" You're the perfect person to ask this question then ;)

Would Championship Riven be among the skins that you don't plan on putting on sale again or is that in a different area? Because it seems strange that all the other championship skins are resold annually but Riven is left out.

RiotmoonstonesJul 23, 20151 votes

Championship Riven was introduced as limited, as opposed to legacy, which is why you don't see her returning like Thresh or Shyvana. That said, it's not a skin we've said will never come back.

Hippalus mentioned in the e--commerce Q&A that most limited edition skins took four years to come back after release, and it's been nearly three years for Riven so far.

Edit: Added three years 'cause I'm bad at numbers.

KreemyJul 23, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T20:47:10.232+0000)

Championship Riven was introduced as limited, as opposed to legacy, which is why you don't see her returning like Thresh or Shyvana. That said, it's not a skin we've said will never come back.

Hippalus mentioned in the e--commerce Q&A that most limited edition skins took four years to come back after release, and it's been nearly years for Riven so far.

So is that your sneaky way of saying she may be released this year along with the other championship skins? ;)

RiotmoonstonesJul 23, 20152 votes

I edited my post, since I forgot to add how many years. @__@ It's only been three years since her release.

CaptainTiltProofMay 29, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Championship Riven was introduced as limited, as opposed to legacy, which is why you don't see her returning like Thresh or Shyvana. That said, it's not a skin we've said will never come back.

Hippalus mentioned in the e--commerce Q&A that most limited edition skins took four years to come back after release, and it's been nearly three years for Riven so far.

Edit: Added three years 'cause I'm bad at numbers.

This whole taking away of skins but not releasing some seems unfair to new players. I understand Riots stance is "No, never again! Can't hear you blah blah blah," But to have gotten the Silver Kayle skin etc, you needed to be in the right place at the right time. So an option for people that are newer ( started a account after the dreaded decoding ) as an option should be granted. Like, getting to bronze to silver 1 time, pick a unavailable skin to unlock. Riot is already having problems with customer service, something as a reward program might actually help.

Bandle City BotJul 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T18:41:10.731+0000)

At this time, we don't have plans to sell or make skins like PAX TF, Silver Kayle, King Rammus available again. These skin signified events such as Pre-ordered a hard copy of League of Legends, attending PAX, or being a part of the League of Legends beta. Making these skins available again would likely create a bad feeling for the players who earned this skins for doing specific things. It would be a similar feeling if you earned Victorious Janna, and now she's available to everyone.

So, an idea since this request seems to pop up every few months:

For the end of Season rewards, Riot is rewarding a player for obtaining a certain tier of skill by the end of a season. Since we're able to earn skins for reaching <X> tier bracket at the end of each season. Give the players an option of choosing a skin that falls into this bracket. This can lead to a player never being able to have all of them (because they haven't been playing since the beginning) but they get a little more freedom on the skin they earn. You can take it a step further and give them the opportunity to earn multiple skins if they can maintain an <X> tier in multiple brackets (Solo, 5's, 3's) until they have all skins in this bracket. Those truly dedicated to the mastery of the game will put in the work, showing they have earned it and no bad feelings beyond an elitist attitude of "I've been playing longer than you pleb" should be lingering. You've already kinda set the stage for being able to do that by periodically opening the vault for skins at certain times per year (and rewarding people who already the content with something extra, extra RP, unique Ribbon, A Chroma Pack, even a High Five might be enough for some players) so we see you aren't against that in theory

For the PAX/Pre-Order events the skins signify that you have/had the discretionary income to either go to an event or jump on the bandwagon on a new game and that's all those skins show. The PAX skins can easily be solved by something similar to how Blizzard does unique content for Blizzcon and WoW/D3 and the unique content can still be obtained by doing an e-ticket to the event. The people who want the experience of the con will still go to the con, but the people who just want the content or are unable of going to the event can still be included with a comparable monetary investment.

This leaves only the King Rammus skin, which you can only earn if you if you played since Beta. Not sure how to provide the community a solution for this but it's a status symbol of significantly supporting the game. Maybe meaningful content contributions ala PBE over a timeline? It is incentive to use the PBE for testing/bug finding/polling the community instead of just early access to content. Even make it hinging on good social standing both on their PBE and Live accounts and make it a skin hinging on maintaining good standing/PBE?

Just spitballin' ideas

RiotmoonstonesJul 24, 20154 votes

You're right - this is a pretty hot topic, especially for Victorious skins, and we're nearing that time of year again!

Since we're able to earn skins for reaching <X> tier bracket at the end of each season. Give the players an option of choosing a skin that falls into this bracket. This can lead to a player never being able to have all of them (because they haven't been playing since the beginning) but they get a little more freedom on the skin they earn.

This has been a fairly popular solution to this debate.

I feel like there are wins and losses to both sides here. If you earned the victorious skin each season, you're going to feel crappy that someone can pick and choose which ones they want at the end of the season. If you're a newer player and didn't have the chance to earn the older Victorious skins, you're going to feel bad that you're locked into whatever the season's Victorious skin is. There is sentiment around older skins, especially when earned, and if we ever did change how Victorious skins are distributed, we'd have to be super careful about it.

You've already kinda set the stage for being able to do that by periodically opening the vault for skins at certain times per year

These fall into a bit of a different category since they were previously available in the store, and not earned like the Victorious skins.

The PAX skins can easily be solved by something similar to how Blizzard does unique content for Blizzcon and WoW/D3 and the unique content can still be obtained by doing an e-ticket to the event. The people who want the experience of the con will still go to the con, but the people who just want the content or are unable of going to the event can still be included with a comparable monetary investment.

This could be an awesome solution to events skin in the future - especially for something like Worlds.

As for the existing PAX skins, we don't have plans to bring them back, so this solution wouldn't necessarily work for events that occurred several years ago.

This leaves only the King Rammus skin, which you can only earn if you if you played since Beta.

While the idea of having some kind of reward for being a part of the PBE isn't bad, it falls back into the elitist comment you made earlier regarding Victorious skins. Since PBE has a much smaller community than the live environments, only a very small percentage of players would have the skin. In addition, there is only one PBE server, which means that even if a player did have access, due to where they live, they may experience unplayable ping, and wouldn't be able to contribute to feedback as much as some others would.

If we did decide to reward this kind of positive contribution with King Rammus, only a very small percentage of players would gain from the experience, which would feel bad for players who were a part of the original beta, and would feel bad for current players who don't have access to PBE even though they've applied several times.

I'm certainly not trying to shut your ideas down by any means - just providing context on our end about how we think about things. I think it's great that you're thinking about how to make skins a bit more about expressing yourself, and a bit less about exclusiveness. While some situations won't work regarding existing older content, some of these solutions could absolutely work for content in the future!

HellioningJul 24, 20152 votes

As someone who has King Rammus, I would not 'feel bad' if people could actually get the skin. No one reacts to King Rammus anymore; it was kinda cool when people went 'what the hell that skin how did you get it' but right now either no one cares or no one knows what it means.

MasalarJul 24, 20152 votes

Just to play devil's advocate: It seems as if, for you, the main joy in having a rare skin is in seeing other people react to it. If people aren't reacting, then there's no point in it being rare. But for other people the joy in having a rare skin is the knowledge that they have a rare skin. It doesn't matter if other people react, it's statistical rarity/value is what gives it meaning (to a degree). If it was suddenly available for others to purchase, it would lose almost all value to the first player, which can be unfair to them.

HellioningJul 24, 20152 votes

I guess. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me, but different strokes and all that.

Bandle City BotJul 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-07-24T17:13:46.218+0000)

You're right - this is a pretty hot topic, especially for Victorious skins, and we're nearing that time of year again!

This has been a fairly popular solution to this debate.

I feel like there are wins and losses to both sides here. If you earned the victorious skin each season, you're going to feel crappy that someone can pick and choose which ones they want at the end of the season. If you're a newer player and didn't have the chance to earn the older Victorious skins, you're going to feel bad that you're locked into whatever the season's Victorious skin is. There is sentiment around older skins, especially when earned, and if we ever did change how Victorious skins are distributed, we'd have to be super careful about it.

So, maybe I'm not seeing the problem here. The people who have maintained their ability across the seasons, assuming you adopted the proposed solution, 'technically' had this option all along with only one choice. This lead to the system streamlining it and automatically awarding it to the player.

At best you have the crowds who joined in Season N, earned their Y ranking but wanting Season N-X rewards that would have bad feelings (Also assuming you disregard the attitude of seniority elitism levels of salt.) These people have the opportunity to earn their skin they want.

Am I missing the base point there, or is this a party line you have to give?

These fall into a bit of a different category since they were previously available in the store, and not earned like the Victorious skins.

Yes, they were things available for purchase of a yesteryear that people have screamed about wanting. The only difference I can see (which I probably don't have the whole picture) between the two is that these skins could be earned instead of purchased. Is there just not an incentive on riot to do this to make they community happy if you guys don't stand to make money off of it?

If you need a reward to give the Ranked Players from yesteryear that is comparable to what you gave the Legacy Skin Owners, I think I saw something about Ranked Decay coming back. Maybe give them 1 month of protection from Decay from Inactivity per skin? As a toggle option (kind of like turning off EXP gain in WoW) to where you have to actively enable it.

This could be an awesome solution to events skin in the future - especially for something like Worlds.

As for the existing PAX skins, we don't have plans to bring them back, so this solution wouldn't necessarily work for events that occurred several years ago.

Not planning to bring them back? Any reason why exactly? I could understand if you were going the Konami route with their YGO cards and controlling the secondary market because that would undercut your bottom line, but the earlier idea for End of Season skins could be applied here too with the E-Ticket for future events to allow choice, with the only people who have bad feelings are the special snowflakes.

Reward solution if you want to go the legacy skins route: Maybe a free E-Ticket per pre-existing skin on the account? It allows them to maintain content for a few years for the previous support and giving a nod to those players.

While the idea of having some kind of reward for being a part of the PBE isn't bad, it falls back into the elitist comment you made earlier regarding Victorious skins. Since PBE has a much smaller community than the live environments, only a very small percentage of players would have the skin. In addition, there is only one PBE server, which means that even if a player did have access, due to where they live, they may experience unplayable ping, and wouldn't be able to contribute to feedback as much as some others would.

If we did decide to reward this kind of positive contribution with King Rammus, only a very small percentage of players would gain from the experience, which would feel bad for players who were a part of the original beta, and would feel bad for current players who don't have access to PBE even though they've applied several times.

I'm certainly not trying to shut your ideas down by any means - just providing context on our end about how we think about things. I think it's great that you're thinking about how to make skins a bit more about expressing yourself, and a bit less about exclusiveness. While some situations won't work regarding existing older content, some of these solutions could absolutely work for content in the future!

Yeah, the King Rammus idea was just a quick fix, while not the best solution it was the only one I had on hand.

RiotmoonstonesJul 24, 20152 votes

So, maybe I'm not seeing the problem here. The people who have maintained their ability across the seasons, assuming you adopted the proposed solution, 'technically' had this option all along with only one choice. This lead to the system streamlining it and automatically awarding it to the player. At best you have the crowds who joined in Season N, earned their Y ranking but wanting Season N-X rewards that would have bad feelings (Also assuming you disregard the attitude of seniority elitism levels of salt.) These people have the opportunity to earn their skin they want. Am I missing the base point there, or is this a party line you have to give?

Certainly not a party line.

The goal of the Victorious skins is to celebrate ranking up to at least the end of the season. Each Victorious skin is representative of a season - an achievement.

I don't think you're missing the point. I don't have a resolution for this topic, but instead bring up that both sides of the discussion have valid points as to why these skins should/shouldn't be handed out in a different manner than they currently are.

Yes, they were things available for purchase of a yesteryear that people have screamed about wanting. The only difference I can see (which I probably don't have the whole picture) between the two is that these skins could be earned instead of purchased. Is there just not an incentive on riot to do this to make they community happy if you guys don't stand to make money off of it?

Right, the difference here is earned versus being purchased. It's not an issue of if we could/couldn't make money off the skins, but rather as you've said, making the community happy.

That said, again we fall into people who have the skins versus people who don't have the skins, and what would be fair to all parties. (This is a huge debate/discussion, and currently, there isn't a resolution aside from what's currently in place.)

Not planning to bring them back? Any reason why exactly? I could understand if you were going the Konami route with their YGO cards and controlling the secondary market because that would undercut your bottom line, but the earlier idea for End of Season skins could be applied here too with the E-Ticket for future events to allow choice, with the only people who have bad feelings are the special snowflakes. Reward solution if you want to go the legacy skins route: Maybe a free E-Ticket per pre-existing skin on the account? It allows them to maintain content for a few years for the previous support and giving a nod to those players.

This falls back to player sentiment.

If you achieved/earned a skin, let's say Silver Kayle or Black Alistar, how do you feel about people who didn't pre-order receiving the skin? What kind of price would you put on it? How to rank its value? Should it be given out for a new achievement?

If you went to PAX, do you this its fair that those who didn't attend PAX receive PAX TF, since the goal of that skin was to be a memento from the event.

Reward solution if you want to go the legacy skins route: Maybe a free E-Ticket per pre-existing skin on the account? It allows them to maintain content for a few years for the previous support and giving a nod to those players.

I'm not sure I'm following you on this one - would you mind explaining it a bit more?

Bandle City BotJul 24, 20152 votes

Allow me to address these in reverse order if you please;

I'm not sure I'm following you on this one - would you mind explaining it a bit more?

In my earlier comment about doing E-Tickets (akin to Blizzcon as the example) to earn Pax skins it would be

Buy E-Ticket (through you guys, broadcast any event you want E-Ticket users to see as special content or not)
When buying Ticket, have them link it to their account with a choice of a past Pax Skin. By having it be a past skin it still allows the current year celebration of PAX to be relevant for any new skin you give out. Also by linking it to their account you somewhat cripple the secondary market involving 'selling' skins. You crush it almost completely by allowing the tickets to be purchased via RP as an option. 2a. You could technically buy multiple tickets if you really wish to have them all.
They get a unique code to their account they can redeem for the skin they chose. Big bold Letters the warning that the code lasts for a 1 week time and after it expires or it's used they can't redeem it. (Thus anybody who is not in good enough standing with the community to get a long term ban can't be rewarded, yay another incentive to not be Toxic).

With that system in place (but before it launches) you do a check of every account who has any/all skins that are being offered this way. They get a voucher for 1 free e-ticket for a future PAX event like this (essentially a free PAX skin), also make it linked to that account. Also make it hinging on being on good standing (long term incentive to not be toxic and violate the summoner's code)

If you went to PAX, do you this its fair that those who didn't attend PAX receive PAX TF, since the goal of that skin was to be a memento from the event.

and

If you achieved/earned a skin, let's say Silver Kayle or Black Alistar, how do you feel about people who didn't pre-order receiving the skin? What kind of price would you put on it? How to rank its value? Should it be given out for a new achievement?

If you went to PAX you went to PAX (theoretically) for more than just the PAX TF skin and it was an added bonus. You got your event, the convention, and you got your swag (any/all stuff given out). All this does is provide people the ability to get this content if they cannot financially make it out to the con. The E-Ticket allows them to financially support at least you guys for the PAX content if A: they have no interest in the Con at large or B: cannot afford to. Offering this does not remove the memories or cheapen their experiences of a previous PAX (entire conversation is hinging on us not catering to the elitist crowd mentioned back yesterday), it only opens up possibilities of content being available to future users.

The Pre-order/Magainze Subscription/Beta skins: This was jumping on the bandwagon early. They got the skins for doing X, Y, or Z. You either were a long time Beta Tester to earn your Rammus or made a transaction purchase at a certain time for the other two. That's what it boils down to. I admitted I don't have a feel good solution for King Rammus beyond my earlier mentioned PBE/Good standing requirements, but the point of poor ping/connection issues I think is a mostly a non issue since that was still an issue then too (if a larger one back then). The other two skins are essentially collectors edition skins, representing a gamble and serious investment incase the game never came to fruition. If you allow them back as purchase skins, pop them at the Ultimate tier and call it a day. I am not sure what type of an event would be appropriate to earn either of those two, maybe a major community event between Riot and it's users? Maybe look to Factions as an idea? I don't know.

With that in mind, I don't have a community solution to reward the people who were in on this beyond if you sold them by compensating them for whatever you value the skins at (which I think is like 20-ish bucks per skin if you assign them to Ultimate Tier for purchase).

Right, the difference here is earned versus being purchased. It's not an issue of if we could/couldn't make money off the skins, but rather as you've said, making the community happy.

However by not allowing opportunities you (riot) are showing that seniority is the rule here. If you weren't here back during <X> and did <Y> you can't have <Z>. The only difference being Y goes from "Purchase the skin" to "Earn the Skin" and Z varies on the skin.

The goal of the Victorious skins is to celebrate ranking up to at least the end of the season. Each Victorious skin is representative of a season - an achievement.

If that's the case, wouldn't the same be held true of every Snowdown/Harrowing season? They are representative of growth in the company just as well but you pulled them out of the vault. The only difference is I am proposing that the earned skins are still earned instead of just offered for sale. The same blood, sweat, and tears is required to obtain them (potentially more due to the community growing, discussions of ELO hell, complexity of the game increasing, etc etc etc). This leads to denying the content based on "they earned it back then, and by letting you earn it cheapens their experience." I have no solution or thoughts to this. Hopefully somebody else can add onto this.

RiotmoonstonesJul 24, 20152 votes

In my earlier comment about doing E-Tickets (akin to Blizzcon as the example) to earn Pax skins it would be

Buy E-Ticket (through you guys, broadcast any event you want E-Ticket users to see as special content or not)

As I've mentioned, this idea is fantastic for future content, but it's not likely we'd do this for older PAX skins.

You'd mentioned Blizzcon as an example, but they also have special event content, such as pets for WoW, cards for Hearthstone, icons, etc.

When buying Ticket, have them link it to their account with a choice of a past Pax Skin. By having it be a past skin it still allows the current year celebration of PAX to be relevant for any new skin you give out. Also by linking it to their account you somewhat cripple the secondary market involving 'selling' skins. You crush it almost completely by allowing the tickets to be purchased via RP as an option. 2a. You could technically buy multiple tickets if you really wish to have them all.

They get a unique code to their account they can redeem for the skin they chose. Big bold Letters the warning that the code lasts for a 1 week time and after it expires or it's used they can't redeem it. (Thus anybody who is not in good enough standing with the community to get a long term ban can't be rewarded, yay another incentive to not be Toxic).

By disabling old skin codes, as well as setting ~ one week limits on the newer skin codes, we've eliminated the majority of third party skin code sellers. We've made it clear to players that skin codes are disabled shortly after distribution, which has also lessened the amount of players getting scammed due to false promises of rare skin codes.

We did something similar to your idea with having unique codes as Worlds last year. A unique code was given with each ticket, which could then be redeemed for Championship skins.

We don't want to be police officers when it comes to the distribution of skins - they're meant to be a fun way to interact, as well as a way for players to express themselves in game.

If you went to PAX you went to PAX (theoretically) for more than just the PAX TF skin and it was an added bonus. You got your event, the convention, and you got your swag (any/all stuff given out). All this does is provide people the ability to get this content if they cannot financially make it out to the con.

We realized this was a bad feeling for those who couldn't make it to a convention, whether due to financial reasons, or because the convention sold out, which is why we've moved away from PAX skins. We now hand out random skins (Dragonslayer Pantheon, Arclight Vel'Koz were two of the more recent ones).

With that in mind, I don't have a community solution to reward the people who were in on this beyond if you sold them by compensating them for whatever you value the skins at (which I think is like 20-ish bucks per skin if you assign them to Ultimate Tier for purchase).

Right, this is where it's a bit different than limited to legacy skins. We can easily refund x amount for a skin because we know how much someone paid for it. For content that has never been in the store, it becomes a bit different.

Let's take Black Alistar - Do we charge for the price of the pre-order? Do we charge what it'd be worth today in terms of price tier? Is it worth more than that? Is it worth ~$20 like you've suggested?

However by not allowing opportunities you (riot) are showing that seniority is the rule here. If you weren't here back during <X> and did <Y> you can't have <Z>. The only difference being Y goes from "Purchase the skin" to "Earn the Skin" and Z varies on the skin.

I would disagree in the case of content earned. There are various games who offer limited content based on when you started playing. Do you feel similarly? How does that content compare to skins? Are you more attached to an unobtainable skin versus an unobtainable icon, for example?

If that's the case, wouldn't the same be held true of every Snowdown/Harrowing season?

These were purchased (which means that at one point or another, available in the store) not earned, so it's not the same case. Unfortunately, I don't have a solid knowledge of the process that determined the limited to legacy change, as this was way before I was at Riot. D:

The only difference is I am proposing that the earned skins are still earned instead of just offered for sale. The same blood, sweat, and tears is required to obtain them (potentially more due to the community growing, discussions of ELO hell, complexity of the game increasing, etc etc etc). This leads to denying the content based on "they earned it back then, and by letting you earn it cheapens their experience."

I agree - if these kinds of skins ever did come back, I personally think earning them would be the proper way to go. It'd be as close to the original experience, and would be the more fair out of the two options.

That said, your second point still stands, and like yourself, I don't have a solution on how to handle those kinds of situations.

Side note: I really appreciate you taking the time to voice your opinions and keep a healthy discussion going. :]

Bandle City BotJul 25, 20152 votes

You'd mentioned Blizzcon as an example, but they also have special event content, such as pets for WoW, cards for Hearthstone, icons, etc.

Yes I did mention Blizzcon, it is a fairly well known gaming convention and what happens from year to year is easy to google up for anybody to jump in. The most obvious awards (from going to the con or getting an E-Ticket) are fairly well noted. Typically WoW Pets or an Icon. The other things, tangible items, you are mentioning would readily fall into the goodies and swag you get from visiting booths (one of the overall perks of going to a convention)

Right, this is where it's a bit different than limited to legacy skins. We can easily refund x amount for a skin because we know how much someone paid for it. For content that has never been in the store, it becomes a bit different.

Let's take Black Alistar - Do we charge for the price of the pre-order? Do we charge what it'd be worth today in terms of price tier? Is it worth more than that? Is it worth ~$20 like you've suggested?

I gave an upper end (Ultimate Tier) for rare and otherwise unobtainable content. As I don't remember how much you had to pay for the pre-order and the subscription price of the magazine for the other changes a little every so often I was going for roughly a middle ranged price point.

It's not a matter of selling just the content, you are showing you support the game in a slightly more meaningful way if you want to put a spin on it. Give the pre-existing owners unique borders and a refund (in RP values) equal to the price point you're at and voila. They get to have their status symbol involving the skin. People get to play with and enjoy the skin. Riot gets to make extra money as, if the vocal aspect of the community is any indication of market interest, the number of people buying it will vastly outweigh the number of people you have to 'refund'

I would disagree in the case of content earned. There are various games who offer limited content based on when you started playing. Do you feel similarly? How does that content compare to skins? Are you more attached to an unobtainable skin versus an unobtainable icon, for example?

Me personally? Or Me the hypothetical consumer. Me personally I am attached to products I enjoy to use or I view as appealing/enjoyable. If it's obtainable or not is next on the list and if it's unobtainable I try to find a solution to it. As most companies fall into being unwilling or willing if you pay a premium I am typically forced to either suck it up or pay for it.

As Riot wants to be a beast in touch with it's community I am given an opportunity to open a dialogue with the employees and give potentially satisfactory solutions. It being an Icon/Skin/Ward/Ribbon/Random Poro Plushie That Screams "Stand Behind Braum!" makes no nevermind as it is all content/a product you produce for us to consume.

Me the Hypothetical Consumer: Probably I want the Shiny because I can't have it, or can only have it for a limited time. Impulse buys and all.

Side note: I really appreciate you taking the time to voice your opinions and keep a healthy discussion going. :]

I try, this is how we keep healthy discussions with Red Posters going. It ensures that we, the community, can talk with you on things we feel passionate about and we don't scare you off. Good way to make the more skittish people at Riot feel welcome and safe on the boards too.

Edit I know I said the earlier post was my last thing to add, but I saw your response after, so have 2 more pennies to add to your growing collection of "A Shiny Psyduck's 2 Cents".

RiotmoonstonesJul 27, 20152 votes

Edit I know I said the earlier post was my last thing to add, but I saw your response after, so have 2 more pennies to add to your growing collection of "A Shiny Psyduck's 2 Cents".

-Adds cents to piggy bank.-

Me personally I am attached to products I enjoy to use or I view as appealing/enjoyable. If it's obtainable or not is next on the list and if it's unobtainable I try to find a solution to it. As most companies fall into being unwilling or willing if you pay a premium I am typically forced to either suck it up or pay for it.

Can't say I blame you on this one, and I find it refreshing that you're willing to offer up solutions as opposed to saying, "I want this."

As Riot wants to be a beast in touch with it's community I am given an opportunity to open a dialogue with the employees and give potentially satisfactory solutions. It being an Icon/Skin/Ward/Ribbon/Random Poro Plushie That Screams "Stand Behind Braum!" makes no nevermind as it is all content/a product you produce for us to consume.

I...I am interested in this poro as long as it has a velcro mustache. :D

This is certainly true, though. We're certainly aiming to be player focused, which means opening up dialogue regarding touchy topics (Lyte discussing chat restrictions, etc), or something a bit more small scale like Legacy/Limited skins.

While I may not have all the answers, I think dialogue is the first step that needs to happen.

I try, this is how we keep healthy discussions with Red Posters going. It ensures that we, the community, can talk with you on things we feel passionate about and we don't scare you off.

Absolutely!

I'm always up for a discussion as long as it stays healthy. It's great to hear others' opinions on topics.

Me the Hypothetical Consumer: Probably I want the Shiny because I can't have it, or can only have it for a limited time. Impulse buys and all.

I also fall into the category of "Oh man, it's limited time only? Welp, better buy it now, even though I have no used for x, y, or z and don't know where the heck I'm going to put it." At least digital content is a bit easier to store.

Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to go through all of this with me (holy crap this thread got long).

King DellronJul 25, 20151 votes

Here is hoping you don't mind me jumping in the conversation.

I do not own any limited skins, so while i can't say exactly how it would feel. I can make a comparison. I own Ice toboggan Corki, arguably the rarest legacy skin, i also own red card kat and Team Spirit Anivia. These skins are only available every 4 years, so while not limited, they are pretty close.

My solution to the problem, was to give all the original owners a Golden version of their skin.

The golden version would have its particles recolored to a shiny gold. It works pretty well, as most limited skins don't have any particle changes. They could also have their model glow, kind of like azir does. They would also receive, a special loading skin splash, an icon and Rp equal to however much the skin would be worth by today's standards.

It would be optional, so if you didn't like the gold, you could still use the original.

Say, you were deciding on whether to make Ice Toboggan Corki always available, and give owners this compensation. I would be 100% on board with it. I mean, its a better skin for me, and more skins for everyone else.

This way, original owners still get something that is theirs, that they can show off. While the rest of us can finally enjoy all the work put into these skins, and collectors can feel completed. While yes, there would still be some who might really want the particles, most of us just want the model.

For me, owning Pax Tf would be amazing. Its my favorite tf skin, not because its rare, but because i really like the color scheme and style. Now, i have to settle for jack of hearts. its pretty close, but its not pax.

Its the same for others, such as black alistar. It was a little sad to see how good it looked in his VU, but to know i can't get it. And that you guys put so much work into it, but very few will get to enjoy it.

It might also stop some of the toxicity in ranked. As people won't be so stressed about making it to gold and getting the skin.

I also had some ideas on when they would be purchasable/how they could be rewarded. If you found any of this interesting, and would like to hear them, let me know.

RiotmoonstonesJul 27, 20152 votes

My solution to the problem, was to give all the original owners a Golden version of their skin. The golden version would have its particles recolored to a shiny gold. It works pretty well, as most limited skins don't have any particle changes. They could also have their model glow, kind of like azir does.

This is a really interesting concept. It adds an additional layer to what we've previously done with the border/refund/icon when we moved some limited content to legacy.

This would certainly be a project, as it involves changing particles or roughly 30 champs, as well as basically creating a chroma for them. That said, if it's worth it (read: players would enjoy it on both sides), it wouldn't be an overnight thing, but isn't impossible.

The gold idea would be tricky. While particles are less of an issue (unless it's someone like Ahri where things can't be changed like Charm due to gameplay clarity), the model would need to be done in a way that doesn't read as Zhonya's. (Not trying to knock your idea by any means, just a bit of thinking around it.) We've done golden-type skins, but this one would certainly have to be regal.

While yes, there would still be some who might really want the particles, most of us just want the model.

That said, would a model be enough? Would particles be a must have?

For me, owning Pax Tf would be amazing. Its my favorite tf skin, not because its rare, but because i really like the color scheme and style. Now, i have to settle for jack of hearts. its pretty close, but its not pax.

That makes sense. I received PAX Sivir when I went to PAX East several years back, and it's the only skin for her I use. It's not because it's rare, it's because I really enjoy her weapon.

Its the same for others, such as black alistar. It was a little sad to see how good it looked in his VU, but to know i can't get it. And that you guys put so much work into it, but very few will get to enjoy it.

I agree - the VU did wonders for all of his skins, and Black Alistar was certainly a huge improvement.

It might also stop some of the toxicity in ranked. As people won't be so stressed about making it to gold and getting the skin.

While legacy and limited skins are a bit easier to work with (since they were generally bought/available in the store, minus some exceptions), ranked achievements are a bit more touchy.

Ranked is a bit more competitive, and I think working towards a reward is fun/keeps the competition going, and it pushes players to improve.

I think this would leave a bad taste in players' mouths more often than not if someone who didn't reach gold received the skin, or they did reach gold, but could pick any Victorious skin they wanted. Certainly worth a debate (and you'll see some regarding this topic throughout the thread).

aciddemonsJul 27, 20152 votes

Just a though on the "gold version" of the skin. I play both Dota 2 and League and something Valve does is release good versions of certain items.

For those of you not familiar, Dota 2 uses an item set feature similar to MMOs so people have the freedom to mix and match (I.E. A head piece from one set, a top from another, etc).

Anyway, you could look into the gold thing but personally it gets a little old when every other hero has a "gold skin." It's a little boring to see on the map. I mean the Dota items are a little rare but after a while, it gets old.

King DellronJul 27, 20151 votes

That said, if it's worth it (read: players would enjoy it on both sides), it wouldn't be an overnight thing, but isn't impossible.

Yes, i do really believe its worth the work that would be put into it. Collectors, or people who main alistar, kayle, etc. Can have the full set, while those who owned them before would still have something unique to them.

The gold idea would be tricky. While particles are less of an issue (unless it's someone like Ahri where things can't be changed like Charm due to gameplay clarity), the model would need to be done in a way that doesn't read as Zhonya's. (Not trying to knock your idea by any means, just a bit of thinking around it.) We've done golden-type skins, but this one would certainly have to be regal.

I think you might of misunderstood. You know how azir has this faint glow around his model in game. It gives him this fancy look that makes him seem godlike. I think it would look cool, but if it would be too hard to do or cause clarity issues. Then It isn't extremely important to the idea, i think the gold particles would be enough without the glow.

I made a (terrible) mock up of the general idea i was going for with Riot Squad Singed: http://imgur.com/Ls4SiSX See, the model glows slightly and his poison trail/on top of him, would be completely golden.

That said, would a model be enough? Would particles be a must have?

I think just being able to buy the model would be enough, as right now we all want the skins even though most are just a model. While particles are always cool, i don't think they would be a must have for these skins.

That makes sense. I received PAX Sivir when I went to PAX East several years back, and it's the only skin for her I use. It's not because it's rare, it's because I really enjoy her weapon.

You are so lucky. But you make another point. Pax sivir is probably the only tron-esque sivir skin we will ever get. Many people like sivir, and many people like that techno style. But very few get to use it.

While legacy and limited skins are a bit easier to work with (since they were generally bought/available in the store, minus some exceptions), ranked achievements are a bit more touchy.

Ranked is a bit more competitive, and I think working towards a reward is fun/keeps the competition going, and it pushes players to improve.

I think this would leave a bad taste in players' mouths more often than not if someone who didn't reach gold received the skin, or they did reach gold, but could pick any Victorious skin they wanted. Certainly worth a debate (and you'll see some regarding this topic throughout the thread).

I think the ranked rewards are great, and would definitely be against taking away their value. I would ask, why do the victorious skins mean so much. For me, the answer is that it would allow me to show my dedication in game. That i worked hard and i am being rewarded for it. Also, it shows that riot promotes ranked games and values the players and the competitive part.

With all that, i think my solution still applies to ranked skins. When the season ends, all victorious skins, including the new one, would go for sale in the shop. If you managed to make it to gold or higher in ranked. You get the new skin for free, as well as the exclusive golden version of it.

So, like with the other skins. You can still have something that is only available to higher ranks, to show that you worked hard during this season. But those of us who can't make it to gold aren't penalized even more by there being an awesome skin we can't ever use.

By the way. Thanks a ton for doing this Katey. Even if we never get the limited skins. Its really nice to know that someone listened to us and an attempt was made for the best solution.

RiotmoonstonesJul 27, 20151 votes

I think you might of misunderstood. You know how azir has this faint glow around his model in game. It gives him this fancy look that makes him seem godlike. I think it would look cool, but if it would be too hard to do or cause clarity issues. Then It isn't extremely important to the idea, i think the gold particles would be enough without the glow. I made a (terrible) mock up of the general idea i was going for with Riot Squad Singed:

It's not terrible. :P Visuals are always helpful!

Going off of your example alone, having some kind of glow may indicate a buff, which may cause concerns with gameplay. Perhaps changing the texture itself would be a solution to this.

I think the ranked rewards are great, and would definitely be against taking away their value. I would ask, why do the victorious skins mean so much. For me, the answer is that it would allow me to show my dedication in game. That i worked hard and i am being rewarded for it. Also, it shows that riot promotes ranked games and values the players and the competitive part.

I can agree with this - I think it's a great way to show hard work/dedication in ranked for the season.

With all that, i think my solution still applies to ranked skins. When the season ends, all victorious skins, including the new one, would go for sale in the shop. If you managed to make it to gold or higher in ranked. You get the new skin for free, as well as the exclusive golden version of it.

As a skin line that's symbolizes achievements, I'd disagree that they should be available in the shop.

As for being able to select which one you'd like - that's been a hot topic of discussion. Personally, I think only the current year should be available because each Victorious skin represents a season that you achieved Gold+ in ranked. It's kind of like having a trophy.

While not everyone may earn it, we've come up with other end of season rewards that everyone can earn by simply winning games - Victorious Wards. While they may not be a new champion/skin, it's another way to earn rewards.

By the way. Thanks a ton for doing this Katey. Even if we never get the limited skins. Its really nice to know that someone listened to us and an attempt was made for the best solution.

No worries!

ArcticSiriusJul 26, 20151 votes

These were purchased (which means that at one point or another, available in the store) not earned, so it's not the same case. Unfortunately, I don't have a solid knowledge of the process that determined the limited to legacy change, as this was way before I was at Riot. D: How is it that championship riven was "earned"? I was there for when it was on sale, just short on cash to buy it. If I was to earn it when you were giving them away at your second championships, I think travelling from Yellowknife, NT, Canada (I was in highschool at the time) is abit much to "earn" it.

Also, why was CS Riven limited as to CS Thresh and Shyvana being legacy? Kinda doesn't make sense to have a line of skins only be partial to purchase every now and then.

HellioningJul 24, 20152 votes

I feel that used 'earned' for Black Alistar or Silver Kayle to be a bit incorrect (and Human Ryze, for that matter.) All you did was pre-order or buy the game. The only thing you had to 'earn' was 30 dollars before a certain date.

I can see the argument against Victorious skins (though I would prefer to be able to get old Victorious skins instead of current ones if I so chose; I would have preferred to get Victorious Janna over Victorious Elise, for example. And maybe I could see the PAX skins, considering that's a promotional thing between you and PAX. But saying that someone 'earned' a skin by being able to pay money before a certain date is kinda stupid.

Maybe it's just because I'm against pre-order bonuses in general, but this really seems pointless. How often do you see Silver Kayle, or Black Alistar, or Human Ryze? If anyone's upset about losing their exclusivity, I sure can't see them.

TerraRisingJul 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=dOvok4E5,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2015-07-24T19:31:14.735+0000) If you achieved/earned a skin, let's say Silver Kayle or Black Alistar, how do you feel about people who didn't pre-order receiving the skin? What kind of price would you put on it? How to rank its value? Should it be given out for a new achievement?

If you went to PAX, do you this its fair that those who didn't attend PAX receive PAX TF, since the goal of that skin was to be a memento from the event.

As someone who owns Silver Kayle and Riot Nasus, I'll be that one person who says that it wouldn't bother me. If any "special feeling" I get from being one of a handful of people to own a skin is ruined by thousands of people getting a skin they want and being happy with Riot and Riot getting some extra cash out of doing virtually nothing, I'd get over my smugness pretty damn quick.

Maybe the solution is a "special border" around the splash arts, like those skins purchased pre-Harrowing 2013.

Linna ExcelJul 24, 20152 votes

how do you feel about people who didn't pre-order receiving the skin?

The modern preorder system is complete and utter bullcrap. Let it burn and anyone who gets upset about this can cry me a river for all I care as they are the biggest contributor to the problem at times. As Batman Arkham Knight PC version showed (or that new godzilla), anyone who buys a game before waiting for the review deserves to get shafted while their money is stolen from them. Why? Because by now we know that's all these greedy game companies are good for: shafting players and stealing their money before the game is even released.

Preorders are for suckers.

I think everyone who doesn't preorder or buy a bundle should be able to purchase any skin offered. Victorious skins? Make them free to gold+ and offer them for sale for about 750 (morgana might have been 975, but elise was 750 quality). Okay, you couldn't get it for free but you can still get it maybe a week or two later.

CaptainTiltProofMay 29, 20191 votes

I like this idea

SyndrarellaJul 24, 20151 votes

[deleted]

RiotmoonstonesJul 24, 20152 votes

These types of skins aren't available via Mystery Gifting. Achievement skins, Collector's Edition skins, PAX skins, Rusty Blitzcrank, Urf the Manatee, Championship Riven and Riot Squad Singed are not included in the pool of obtainable skins.

Taste My ParleyyMar 18, 20191 votes

WIll you reactivate code obtained from physical collector edition to get silver kayle ? i'm so sad to have the collector edition but cannot activate silver kayle, which is my favourite skin on her, for 10th anniversary will you made a short delay during we can reactivate this unique codes ?