Master Yi Mini Rework idea

IArs3lynI··3 votes·1,978 views

Hello, Everyone

First of all, I do wanna put down a few things that people should know, even though I play Yi with a heart and desire of both the lore and how easy/difficult he can be in lower/higher, as it brings a challenge to keep playing and further improve on him. But now it has come to my attention on the fact that Master Wuju man himself has became too dependent on the analogy of "Stacking". "Stacking" is referring to the Specific things that makes him become too much, those two are Conqueror and Rageblade, the gap between a "Stacked Yi" is too big. Logically this does put those 2 saying "those need a nerf" which I would agree, if it weren't for the fact that back on Patch 6.9 (see Below) they removed Devourer for almost the same reason and some other reason (Stacking in Jungle), this of course came with the Yi Changes to his ultimate, Highlander, on a previous patch. After those two patches, Master Yi started to have a hard time in general, but this wasn't because of the Item, but because of how his kit is as a whole, his kit was something that was never in tune to his lore to the fullest (his kit was poorly made too), and even so, it never stick to how he suppose to be, a Skirmisher Jungler.

What to do?

As you know, this champions kit is a double Edge sword, if it works it can be very hard to shut him down, causing everyone to waste everything to stop him at his tracks, but if even or behind he just one champion who isn't good enough as an ideal Jungle. In Jungle they have 2 different sources they can provide when they gank, 1 they can provide CC, champions that are tanks or bruisers provide some damage while provide a way to engage with to follow up with, 2 they can burst, Assassins provide high burst damage, even though they don't have a lot of engage, they have enough damage to push them off or even grant a kill or two. Master Yi don't provide any of that, even with red buff he still stands as a champion who doesn't fit this.

In lore sense, Master Yi is a Wuju Bladesmens, fighting with his blade and Chi, combining those two together and you got a powerful weapon, however the way he uses his Chi to increase his Strength is weird, not like it a power up, it should be used as a way to pierce through his enemy, both in passive and in active, as for the way he heals he shouldn't stand there as if he a tank, 60% to 70% with a very weak heal (that scales with missing hp) isn't a style of Bladesmens, he using Chi to enchant his body and his blade for better offense and defensively.

so now with that in mind I have a few ideas to bring Yi into a better champion, A Mini Rework can work wonders with this champion, he doesn't need an in-depth rework, but if needed to please engage with me in the comments below.

Goals

  1. Change Meditate into an ability that gives a "Soft" defensive power, can apply a small short soft CC, still, give a small sustain through battle and allowing him to fight in combat with W active
  2. reduce his late game power and lower the gap power between "Stacked Yi" and "None Stacked Yi"
  3. Improve his Q power and have a way to timely remove heavy stuns but still taking damages and removing Q critical damage
  4. make him think more on his damage output and less about spamming all his abilities

My Ideas Master Yi New W: Harden Chi Grants a small Aura that reduces damage from any source (excluding true damage) for a short duration. while the W is active any attack to an enemy champion, large monster, or epic monsters will stack of "Chakra" to a max stack of 5. at the end of the stack re-activate W to absorb the aura, gaining back a certain amount of hp (scales with Number of Auto Attacks) and sets out an explosion of magical damage that slows all enemies in a small radius. Note: If the stack isn't full then the slow nor the damage would come

Number of hits: 4 times Heal: 2% (+1% per 100 AP) X Number of AA to the max of 4 Slow: 35% for 1.5 seconds Magic damage: 25/50/75/100/125 Radius: 300(?) Damage Reduction: 25% (half against towers)

Q - Alpha Strike now you may think I'm aiming to buff this and you are most likely right, im probably am, however it a change to certain parts of his abilities, since it not as strong as it use to be, it needs more offensive power to help lack the loss of immunity he had at the time which is now gone for a good reason too. it allow him to get away stuff that should had kill him, but since he was gone for like 0.5 to 3 seconds it makes certain things such as ignite and DoT to not affect him. giving a lower his based damage and increase his scaling because of an idea that we will discuss later on will get you to understand (Look at E Wuju style for more information)

Damage Change from 25 / 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 to 25/50/75/100/125 new effect apply on hit from items only note: less Based damage late game, but now scale with on hit

No longer Critical for 60% total AD as bonus damage

E - Wuju Style

Not a lot is changing beside how it gonna scale with it, do like how good of true damage works with Yi so i'm keeping it however he wont take advantage his passive E, stacking rageblade and conqueror with his passive E made it too much which allow yi to hit way too hard when it not needed to. thus giving a new passive that makes him more fluent and losing that AD wont be much of a stress.

cool-down increase slightly (probably by 1 or 2 seconds)

Removed Passive: Master Yi gains 10% AD as bonus attack damage while Wuju Style is not on cooldown. new Passive: will now deal 30/35/40/45/50 (9%/13%/17%/21%/25% total AD) as on hit bonus physical damage, if Wuju Style is active or on CD the passive will be disabled.

nerf Active E: from deals 18 / 26 / 34 / 42 / 50 (+ 35% bonus AD) to deals 14 / 23 / 32 / 41 / 50. ( +3% bonus AD) new effect: 20% of the true damage can now deal to towers (double tap applies 10% instead, rageblade wont proc with tower)

Highlander: revert the Patch 6.8 but nerf the attack speed for late game, being at 60% attack speed late game instead of 80% and the passive should only proc his Alpha Strike and his Wuju Style, making sure Master Yi doesn't have that strong of a defense power.

Passive new Effect: no longer apply the CD reset on his W.

Active changed: Cooldown increased to 75 from 85 Duration reduced to 10 seconds from 7 On-kill/on-assist duration extension increased to 4 seconds from 7

Questions i can answer now

Q: Why give Master Yi such high amount of on hit physical damage? A: Master Yi needs to be known as a high damage dealer to certain champion, his old active E was build to combat against tanks and squishy alike, however this should not be the case with a new Master Yi, when he active his E, his damage should be towards tanks rather then bruisers and squishy champions, when it on passive it should be more meaningful to use against squishy champions, here an comparison of his old active to his new active due to the new passive E >With E effect: regular 10 hits - 10 hits with double tap - 10 hits with rageblade and double tap >with passive E|--------------1780----------------------2136----------------------------------------------3560--------------------------------------------------------| >without passive E|---------------1440---------------------1728-----------------------------------------------2880-------------------------------------------------|

the goal is to bring in the old damage to his passive E but allow it to counter, so in raw damage it can deal that much in 10 hits, but some one with more then 100 armor can deal with this damage since it not true damage, peels and others can easy deal with this too. the true damage overall loss about 600 or more true damage at full build, so it less effective late game against squishy champions, however tanks should still fear this ability

Q: why make his W so complicated? A: it does sound like a lot to take him, but it all revolving on making sure his W is his heal and his engage, he gets rewarded for engaging and fighting. when he engages, it very hard to do this in general, his old W cant let him sit there and soak up damage, thanks to all the lanes he would gank against, he would have too much a problem to gain without his team engaging first, which is why reducing the damage reduction he gets and give him a way to gain CC and heal is amazing for him, but only if he apply his abilities right.

Q: why allow on hit to his Q, that sounds too much damage A: it not really, it a nice small boost to what he is, it applies to only his items, so it can be stop with armor still and it helps get rid of the Critical Yi that some players build on him.

any other Questions ill answer below, just make sure you out down "Questions" in your comment

13 Comments

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}...he shouldn't stand there as if he a tank...

To me this is actually one of his most thematic abilities. He's demonstrating that he's not just a master swordsman, but also a master of the mental skills necessary to excel at Wuju. He can literally mediate through an attack if he needs to, or he can use his lightning speed to dodge it. Both are equally viable, as he's a master of both mind and blade.

My fear is taking this away entirely makes him just another "fast dude with sword," which I'm not super keen on.

Master Yi New W: Harden Chi Grants a small Aura that reduces damage from any source (excluding true damage) for a short duration. while the W is active any attack to an enemy champion, large monster, or epic monsters will stack of "Chakra" to a max stack of 5. at the end of the stack re-activate W to absorb the aura, gaining back a certain amount of hp (scales with Number of Auto Attacks) and sets out an explosion of magical damage that slows all enemies in a small radius. Note: If the stack isn't full then the slow nor the damage would come

Number of hits: 4 times Heal: 2% (+1% per 100 AP) X Number of AA to the max of 4 Slow: 35% for 1.5 seconds Magic damage: 25/50/75/100/125 Radius: 300(?) Damage Reduction: 25% (half against towers)

This is functional, but has less counterplay, less skill tests, and less exciting moments. I can't really see this as a change to the benefit of Yi's mechanical fun, as it's now ANOTHER button that you just press before right-clicking forever, added onto his ult, passive, and E which do the same thing.

Q - Alpha Strike now you may think I'm aiming to buff this and you are most likely right, im probably am, however it a change to certain parts of his abilities, since it not as strong as it use to be, it needs more offensive power to help lack the loss of immunity he had at the time which is now gone for a good reason too. it allow him to get away stuff that should had kill him, but since he was gone for like 0.5 to 3 seconds it makes certain things such as ignite and DoT to not affect him. giving a lower his based damage and increase his scaling because of an idea that we will discuss later on will get you to understand (Look at E Wuju style for more information)

Damage Change from 25 / 60 / 95 / 130 / 165 to 25/50/75/100/125 new effect apply on hit from items only note: less Based damage late game, but now scale with on hit

No longer Critical for 60% total AD as bonus damage

I think this actually cuts a lot of power, as well as forces Master Yi into an on-hit build, when he's supposed to have options. I'm also puzzled by the removal (and apparent misunderstanding) of one of Master Yi's biggest skill tests -- Alpha Strike didn't remove the damage from DoTs or Ignite. All it did was render him unable to be targeted/hit by NEW abilities. It gave him a way to dodge incoming abilities by precision timing, but it didn't render him immune to existing DoT effects

Removed Passive: Master Yi gains 10% AD as bonus attack damage while Wuju Style is not on cooldown. new Passive: will now deal 30/35/40/45/50 (9%/13%/17%/21%/25% total AD) as on hit bonus physical damage, if Wuju Style is active or on CD the passive will be disabled.

This is an insanely strong buff, and actually turns this into an ability you probably won't use, because 50 + 25% total AD damage on hit is often going to be far superior to 50 + 3% bonus AD. Additionally, you've further pushed him into mandatory Rageblade mode by making this on-hit feature be up more often, which both increases power dramatically AND decreases the impact of hitting the button and getting the active.

Passive new Effect: no longer apply the CD reset on his W.

This further removes a skill test by removing the number of times you can bait out CC or tank damage with W resets, so I'm not too fond of it.


All in all, this feels like it strips away the few skill tests that Yi has, and replaces them with more incentive to simply build a fairly mindless right-click machine. I'd be interested in seeing some Yi changes, definitely, but these all seem like they're stripping away the unique interactions his kit DOES have and not replacing them with anything with equal room for mastery.

IArs3lynI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=Z1jw1rA8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-08T18:24:51.123+0000)

To me this is actually one of his most thematic abilities. He's demonstrating that he's not just a master swordsman, but also a master of the mental skills necessary to excel at Wuju. He can literally mediate through an attack if he needs to, or he can use his lightning speed to dodge it. Both are equally viable, as he's a master of both mind and blade.

to be more correct his is a master of both Chi and blade, where he channel his Chi throughout his body and blade. no matter how you look at it, it not met to be for the role Riot takes him on to be

My fear is taking this away entirely makes him just another "fast dude with sword," which I'm not super keen on.

your not keen with the idea of Master Yi not having decision in the battle, the way this puts him out to be makes him put down to his role as he primary is, this champion isnt suited for what he is right now, but you seem like you can wrap this more then i can, so if you have an idea, PLEASE go ahead and make a post then dearie, i would love to see how well you do to make Master Yi to be more ideal to what he suppose to be. also i want him to be **" Fast dude who Mastered Chi and blade" dude, as we already have some one with blades anyways, Irelia The Blade Dancer

This is functional, but has less counterplay, less skill tests, and less exciting moments. I can't really see this as a change to the benefit of Yi's mechanical fun, as it's now ANOTHER button that you just press before right-clicking forever, added onto his ult, passive, and E which do the same thing.

there is more conterplay with this and more skill expression here thanks to this idea, he cant forever click and deal the right amount of damage, his timing to what he channel with what is what makes him more skill expression

I think this actually cuts a lot of power, as well as forces Master Yi into an on-hit build, when he's supposed to have options. I'm also puzzled by the removal (and apparent misunderstanding) of one of Master Yi's biggest skill tests -- Alpha Strike didn't remove the damage from DoTs or Ignite. All it did was render him unable to be targeted/hit by NEW abilities. It gave him a way to dodge incoming abilities by precision timing, but it didn't render him immune to existing DoT effects

he use to in the past be able to be immuse to a certain things with his Q, in which i did agree with the nerf to his Q, he was legit immune to damage when it happen. as for crit Master Yi is too Squishy and too unbalance for building Crit. there a difference in having a flexible build and flexible kit, Flexible kits can be look at as impossible to unbalance, adding buffs here and there wont help them at all in higher brackets, take Sion for example if you want to think about abilities that needed to be looked at.

This is an insanely strong buff, and actually turns this into an ability you probably won't use, because 50 + 25% total AD damage on hit is often going to be far superior to 50 + 3% bonus AD. Additionally, you've further pushed him into mandatory Rageblade mode by making this on-hit feature be up more often, which both increases power dramatically AND decreases the impact of hitting the button and getting the active.

His E is part of the Function of allowing him to deal garenteed damage or give him Raw damage, even though he wouldn't deal as much damage as before (see the math below) he wont be able to ideally was, it wont mean he wont deal too much damage either. in his old E i want his raw damage to fit this, to deal a lot of physical damage, but can be counter-able, as for his active E i want it to less counter able and more balance damage. the 10% AD he gains with Rageblade (totaling to 25% total AD bonus) is too much. Rageblade should be an item that what make Yi great, showing that through his E and Double Tap with his Q being able to work with Rageblade should be the Key to what he truely is. Each Champion has a 2 item build spike before they have the option to build other items, Yi should be part of this too, Bloodrazor and Rageblade, or Bloodrazor and Blade of the Ruined King are the two main builds Master Yi should be building, over all if wants a more agressive battle approach, then rageblade and bloodrazor are perfect for what he does, as for a more passive part, bloodrazor and BorRK are the two combo for a good safety net for jungle, either way, moving him from crit is a good approach

This further removes a skill test by removing the number of times you can bait out CC or tank damage with W resets, so I'm not too fond of it.

Those number of times you would bait them out is irrelevant, as he cant counter those CC, he need to have clear weakness if he gonna be an skirmisher, on top of the fact that i want to see Master Yi having permanent Damage Reduction with high amounts of healing, he would be over bearing

All in all, this feels like it strips away the few skill tests that Yi has, and replaces them with more incentive to simply build a fairly mindless right-click machine. I'd be interested in seeing some Yi changes, definitely, but these all seem like they're stripping away the unique interactions his kit DOES have and not replacing them with anything with equal room for mastery.

another part where your wrong, making become this super ability monster is weird, to make room for master is how his timing is for his abilities.

FrockSaints1 votes

No. Yi doesn't need a rework in the near future, and even if he did, the best angle of attack would be to rework his E into something more skill based. Not this.

IArs3lynI1 votes

I believe you dont understand what role he is in, regardless he doesnt hit the pillars at all, beside his lore. he doesnt hit "Chi blade" master

FrockSaints2 votes

No. I believe YOU are the one who doesn't understand. His kit seems good thematically to me. As for gameplay values, like I said, his E is the biggest gripe I have with him. I could comment on the rest too, but the other guy with the wall of text already brought some good ones forward, which you promptly ignored.

I would write a wall of text too... if I didn't deem it a waste of my time. I know your type too well. Dogmatic and passive aggressive. If you want to have an actual conversation, drop those 2 and I'll be happy to.

IArs3lynI1 votes

no thanks, im good, you just have to deal with my kind -_- too bad

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Holy shit, Yi with 25% AD on-hit damage? So like, instead of doing a passive +10% damage he now does over 25% more damage? And something close to 40% more with rageblade? How did you think this was balanced? It wasn't enough you made his Q able to apply on-hit effects (btw instantly stacks rageblade). It wasn't bad enough that you gave him CC and let him keep attacking with 25% damage reduction. No, you had to give him a ridiculously powerful E passive that gives him way too much synergy with his passive and rageblade.

People would stop maxing Q first and just max E first for the insane damage it would grant them. Even at rank 5, -40 damage is nothing when it applies rageblade, bloodrazor, titanic/ravenous hydra... like an AoE ravenous Hydra would be balanced. Also, granting Yi a whopping +30+9%AD on-hit damage at level 1 is insane. That'd be like if a champion could just start the game with a free BF sword.

Even if the enemy had 1000 HP only, bloodrazor immediately deals 40 bonus damage. BotRK deals 80 damage, and will continue to do at least 40 damage until they're below half health. Titanic Hyrda would deal 5 +1% of his maximum health, which let's say is 1500. That's an extra 20 damage right there. Oh wait, I forgot to mention, Titanic Hydra deals AoE damage equal to 40+2.5% of his max health, or +77 damage, which can hit you up to THREE ADDITONAL TIMES based on the positioning of the targets. Heck, if someone buys him Ardent that's another +20 on-hit damage too, while we're at it. Even with a Frozen Mallet he now has another AoE instant slow that he applies while invincible.

IArs3lynI1 votes

i already explain it, the damage that is output from his passive isnt as much as it would be from his old E, due to the missing 10% total AD being Added, he wont gain as much AD as he would, so on hit wouldnt be too much since it is physical damage. the amount of damage he deals now with his new passive E isnt nearly as much as it would from true damage, you do the math buddy, cause i already did

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Old E: +10% AD when not on cooldown. New E: +30/35/40/45/50 (9%/13%/17%/21%/25% total AD) on-hit damage when not on cooldown.

At rank 1, this gives master Yi an effective +30 damage on a basic attack. In order for this to be less than his old E, he would need to already have 300 AD. Not only this, but because of master Yi's passive, he would be dealing much more damage every 4th attack.

Master Yi's E is only activated when he is going into combat with enemy champions. By giving him this incredibly overpowered on-hit effect, you increase his jungle clear speeds dramatically. Even at rank 1, him dealing over 100 damage per auto attack is incredibly high. Combine this with the fact that he no longer needs to stop attacking and moving to heal himself, and you've got a champion that will clear faster than any other in the game.

The fact that his E passive isn't as strong as the active isn't the point here, you made the passive part way too strong. Since you already "did the math" I'll do some of my own.

With a Rageblade, Bloodrazor, and BotRK, at level 11, Master Yi would have 92+66 AD, more with Conquerer active. His old E would increase his damage per-auto attack to 173. His new E would increase his damage per-auto to 224. In four basic attacks, with stacked rageblade, old E would deal 865 damage. Same scenario, new E would deal 1189 damage.

This discrepancy only increases the more bonus AD Yi gets, and I wasn't even including the +15% bonus AD rageblade gives. You're looking at an over 35% increase to his damage when E isn't active, he's going to be killing ANYONE much faster, not just squishies. This, plus the fact that his Q now applies %health damage from BotRK and Bloodrazor, means he's going to simply be incredibly overpowered.

IArs3lynI1 votes

when it comes to mid game it does show a better spike in power for raw damage, your not concidering how much armor it will go towards to others, this damage number is high but compare to others when it comes to based armor and some off the side he doesnt deal as much as he would use to. you are also concidering if he achieve 300 AD, from a stand point he can build that much AD if he spams alot of items that build up to 300 AD. from a calulation point he can build up to at least 440 AD from items and have at least 40 more AD from runes late game (Celerity not included, just Conqueror and AS/AD) which is alot, but you need to concider these 3 things that no one has pointed out

1, in able to make the effective raw damage yi now has, he needs leathality to "Pierce" their armor 2, this isnt garentee damage as it all in physical damage, meaning even in jungle that on hit would be useless compare to his active E. Even with the rageblade (which should be his main 2 component item anyways) he wouldnt deal as much damage as he use to if he gets up the recommended amount of AD for him (which is around 250 AD mostly). you keep thinking this is a striaght buff when you cant think of how effect armor is towards him.

at first I did had a long thought about whether or not if 10 Total AD being on hit would be a good turn, but then i realize that it was too weak for the results i wanted to see

Rathar Dashing1 votes

he can build that much AD if he spams alot of items that build up to 300 AD.

Yeah, but he won't have 300 AD at LEVEL FUCKING ONE.

You're stupid and ignoring facts, I'm done arguing with you.

IArs3lynI1 votes

and he wont have a crap ton of damage at level 1, he will have a bit more damage but that just it, nothing more. one thing for sure you need to calm down your temper dude. i think that akali rework gotten the best of you bro. so why not calm down and look at it from a good physical dirrection, he will have quite some number on physical but it mostly gonna get block by armor

Rathar Dashing1 votes

I've shown you the math as to why you're wrong, if you wanna ignore it and be ignorant that's on you. Have a nice day.

Also I don't give a flying f*** about the akali rework.

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