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Mage tank

Chibi Bronzlife··2 votes·2,115 views

So an idea popped into my head watching the concept art stream recently. League has no true mage tank. I'm not talking about a champion that is good against magic damage. What I mean is a tank who's fantasy is all about the arcane and mystical aspects. I thought of a way to implement this so that you can clearly depict a mage but still have them be a tank. The tankyness wouldn't actually come from the character, but from spells she casts. Those spells come from an ancient book of arcane wisdom that she carries around with her. One spell could be just an aura that she can toggle on an off that can increase the tankyness of all members of the team, another could be a targetable shield or just a self shield, but I haven't come up with a full kit for this concept just a basic idea. I was thinking maybe giving the book it's own personality and having the mage hold conversations with the book in the game. Honestly this is a really unique fantasy that I want to see added to the game at some point. From everything I could come up with, this would be a support based champion since the aura would work best with a partner. Maybe make the aura just a manaless scaling passive based thing that you can turn off to improve the champion's focus to augment the other spells for a short time, and then it auto toggles back on, after the duration has been reached. Now that I think about it, this sounds more like an ultimate, so it would just need the basic abilities fleshed out.

I am pasting the section below from one of my comments as I was able to flesh out a more full kit.

Like, give her a targeted shield for a Q a stun of some sort for a W and a ranged taunt skillshot (perhaps throwing a rune at target location and all enemies attack the rune for a short time). With the defensive aura you get your natural tankyness and have it scale off of tank stats as if you were casting some of your tankiness onto your allies, and the basic abilities give you your utility.

33 Comments

Eternal 7 2 votes

well we still really only have galio , cant wait for his rework though o3o

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

Galio isn't really a mage, he is a gargoyle.

Eternal 7 2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chibi Bronzlife,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EpyW1yt1,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-09-08T16:29:39.434+0000)

Galio isn't really a mage, he is a gargoyle.

wha .... hes ap , has a shield that gives him armor , magic resist , ap and healing ;_; not to mention he scales off of magic resist , with pretty high base damage , even without building purely tanky , his Shield makes him pretty tanky , thats a tank mage XD

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

no, my post is specifically focused on the fantasy, not application. Galio's fantasy is a living gargoyle

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

plus what I was talking about wasn't a tank that counters mages just an actual mage who is a tank.

Friendly Ram1 votes

is swain no longer a champion?

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

he isn't a mystical tank, I classify him and Vlad as more of a similar fantasy, but you have no real mystical arcane mage tank. Like Swain is more of a dark magic and vlad is blood magic. Before anyone says Taric, he is more celestial now, his old fantasy was like geomancy which is kind of mystical, but now he's lost that. Think more like lux, karma style magic but as a tank.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

If I count the main Mage-tanks, (I exclude Cho'gath), I consider Galio the only true Mage-tank. Swain and Vladimir are closer to sustain mages with a lot of health. (Though I did briefly enjoy Swain top-lane full tank directly after his update.) Rumble is pretty closed to a Battle-mage Tank hybrid, but he's a little strange.

The problem as I see it is fusing the theme of a spellcaster with the gameplay of a tanky brawler. You limit your options a lot, because the main way to fuse these themes is to make her tankiness derive itself from her spells. And therefore she has temporary tankiness instead of sustained tankiness, which means that unlike other tanks, she'll only be useful for a portion of the fight. Perhaps if she had a 'transformation' style gameplay the duality might work, but then I suspect she would be unbalanceable. The mage and tank playstyles are simply not that compatible. However, as a pseudo-tanky supportive heal-tank she might work. In which case, she'd be falling along the lines of Alistar or Taric. But again, without the prolonged tankiness. Therefore she will need to make up for that with stronger windows of power or spammable spells.

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

I answered the second half of this in your other comment. However, Galio is a tank that mitigates mage damage, but is not a mage. Per say.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

I'd have to disagree. I believe that he is a proper mage-tank; but a failed concept. The duality Galio has is very difficult to account for.

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

we'll have to agree to disagree then, Galio's fantasy is not that of a mage, is playstyle as it stands feels like a mage, but he isn't a mage. If I said AP tank then yes, or even magic damage tank, sure. What I am talking about is purely the fantasy/lore of the characters. Ironically the character I'm proposing would likely scale better off of tank stats anyways.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

We seem to be saying the same thing here. It's not a question of Galio's fantasy per se; Galio is a mage-tank, regardless of what he should be. And (almost) everyone agrees that what he is is not what he should be.

Fantasy and Gameplay are not separate: the fantasy must fuel the gameplay, and the gameplay must support the fantasy. Which is why, with some of the bigger reworks, they've had to tweak the fantasy as well as the gameplay. It is important to keep both in mind when critiquing a character's role.

Furthermore, what we were saying is that Galio is the only comparable champion in terms of gameplay. Not that he had the same fantasy. Galio's fantasy is difficult to capture and generally unsatisfying at the moment. I would hesitate to try addressing it in his current state.

Chibi Bronzlife2 votes

Honestly I've seen some good suggestions on what Galio SHOULD be but then we'll lose the only champion that does what Galio currently does. He will be a weird champion to address at the rework table I think, I think I may make a seperate thread to discuss what Galio should be as opposed to what he is.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

That's true.

DeathOClock1 votes

Sona ???????????

Chibi Bronzlife4 votes

What? Sona is not a tank.

Wonderlands1 votes

Ryze

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

doesn't matter what anyone says, Ryze is not a tank, he is a frontline carry. Just because his damage items make him somewhat tanky does not mean he is a tank

Wonderlands1 votes

Build him with tons of tank items and he's a tank

Chibi Bronzlife2 votes

no, Ryze kit was never designed to be a tank, just building him tanky doesn't make him a tank in the game, it just means you built tanky items. The same way that building tanky items on Yasuo didn't make yasuo actually a tank.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Necessitities / amenities for an AP, defensive/supportive Mage-tank. 1: Healing / Defense boosts 2: Target Ally shield / self-shield 3: CC (she needs a reason for the enemy to fight her) 4: low damage (If she deals too much damage, then she has too much offensive power for a defensive character)

Suggestions: Low cooldown shield. Slow or Stun would probably feel best on this character. A moderate heal with a defense boost to herself. Possibly a taunt or AoE heal/shield.

Chibi Bronzlife2 votes

See you're picking up on the idea I was trying to get across. Like I want the ult to be a scaling defensive aura that when toggled off enhances the effectiveness (not damage) of the other spells. However I don't want her kit to have healing, if you try to do too much with her kit she won't feel unique any more. Like, give her a targeted shield for a Q a stun of some sort for a W and a ranged taunt skillshot (perhaps throwing a rune at target location and all enemies attack the rune for a short time). With the defensive aura you get your natural tankyness and have it scale off of tank stats as if you were casting some of your tankiness onto your allies, and the basic abilities give you your utility.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Hm. I hadn't even thought of that, a taunt that doesn't cause enemies to attack you, but rather a tertiary target. That would work.

Chibi Bronzlife2 votes

Honestly, I hadn't even thought of it until you suggested a taunt, so it was kind of a combined effort.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

I like it.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

The majority of tanks have ability power scalings, some better than others so it's not really a new idea. Even though some don't have good AP scaling, you can still buy some magic pen, you'd be surprised how much damage you can do.

Theme though? I'd say maokai, but he's more of a tragic character.

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

you are way off the mark of what I'm talking about, and I'm not even suggesting AP scalings. Please read thoroughly before you say an idea is "new" or not. I am talking about the fantasy/lore of the character not what they scale off of, the character I pitched doesn't even have a damage based ability.

ZT Xperimentor3 votes

Hence why I have the line about theme at the end; also no damage? Have you even played maokai? Clearly not.

CrimsonCobra31 votes

Hm. That's true. Although I would suppose that Maokai is more offensive while this concept would be more supportive.

Chibi Bronzlife1 votes

Isn't maokai's theme more of a cursed tree though? Or did they update that?

CrimsonCobra31 votes

It's not 'mage' in the traditional sense, but he has a very mystical, one could say 'traditionally magical', theme. For instance, he invokes memories of some of my favorite fairy tales. But again, in terms of playstyle, he's a nice fusion of tank and mage. And his theme doesn't fight that playstyle by suggesting he should be something else either. (As Galio's does.)

I will try to get this out of the way: there is nothing in League that matches what you are suggesting. However, there are several champions similar enough to draw reference from. I'd say Maokai is probably the most successful out of the bunch. Although, now that I think about it, if Shen's theme weren't 'Ninja Protector', and was instead 'Mage Protector', he'd probably be closer than Maokai.

Chibi Bronzlife2 votes

Yes I have played Maokai, he's a fun support pocket pick.

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