The problem of Yi

Chibi Bronzlife·3/4/2017, 11:36:29 PM·3 votes·1,263 views

I brought this up in another discussion and felt there needed to be a thread specifically targeted at this subject. I'll expand on each of the problems, but I'll start by identifying them.

So first of all There is an inherent problem in his kit, he has the damage output of a melee assassin with the survivability of a more tanky fighter/bruiser. Second problem is he has no real place in the game atm except for abusing low elo play style. Once you hit a certain threshold Yi just doesn't bring anything to the game anymore. Every attempt to really address this champion as a whole failed because these attempts didn't really consider the identity of Yi, what he should do as opposed to what he does. It usually results in him just being way too powerful or too weak to even exist.

On the problem of his kit and place in the game, it can all be traced to one ability, his W. In his current iteration at low elo he can go in gank a lane do what Yi is designed to do but then can just heal up and do more regardless of whether there is an enemy nearby or not. The damage reduction buff on top of the heal itself makes him just a skilless champion that can get away with being greedy. In high elo he has no way to effectively get in to successfully gank, sure you can say he has his ult, but the vision game in high elo is very effective at dissuading Yi ganks. This makes him less impactful on the pace of the game. Sure he can power farm his and the enemy jungle fairly safely as long as his team is doing fine, but in high elo if the team is doing poorly Yi is just useless.

On the problem of addressing Yi, when Yi gets powerful he almost always sees a meaningful nerf: AP Yi, Feral Flare Yi, etc. Then almost immediately after, the reasons he was so strong get nerfed. Feral Flare removed, even removing the atk. speed from ghost blade hit Yi hard. When the items get nerfed Yi sees no compensational buff to make up for it. Not sure if this is just an over-sight or intentional but it is really detrimental to Yi players.

What I propose will actually solve the majority of Yi's problems fairly simply. If Yi's current W was removed, then replaced with something like a three charge dash that applies an auto-attack to enemies hit that applies on hit and lowers the cooldown of his Q like regular auto-attacks it will give him identity, and more meaningful ways to gank, especially since Yi is so auto-attack focused and gets a lot out of life steal items. Instead of just popping W to wait out Q duration while healing up and taking less damage Yi players can dodge incoming retaliation and still get the Q back up in order to fight. It gives skilled players more options and makes him more punishable at lower elo. It also synergizes well with the fantasy of a very fast swordsman that intends to kill you fast.

18 Comments

EndlessSorcerer3/4/2017, 11:41:47 PM1 votes

On the problem of his kit and place in the game, it can all be traced to one ability, his E. In his current iteration at low elo he can go in gank a lane do what Yi is designed to do but then can just heal up and do more regardless of whether there is an enemy nearby or not. The damage reduction buff on top of the heal itself makes him just a skilless champion that can get away with being greedy.

You are referring to his W. His E provides an AD steroid and on-hit true damage.

Squishy melee-ranged autoattack-oriented champions tend to have defensive tools. Quite frankly, they need them if they want any hope of doing their jobs.

Tryndamere Heal, AD reduction, R Fiora W Yasuo Passive, W MasterYi Q, W Gangplank W Riven E MonkeyKing W

SlashStriker3/5/2017, 12:05:05 AM1 votes

If Yi's current W was removed, then replaced with something like a three charge dash

I personally like dashes as it makes you more mobile but 3 charges would make everyone cry about it. 1 charge would be enough and maybe reduce the cooldown by auto attacks?


And btw many champions got a way to defend / sustain themselfs for instance Khazix Heals, Yasuo got wall and shield and so on

What does Yi gets? I personally think that Since Yi is a fighter it would be big problem that he got no sustain or way to defend himself. Like shield, Healing and so on.

Every swordman knows how to parry enemy attacks so maybe damage reduction since he should have good sword parry skill?

Golden Tager X3/5/2017, 5:20:18 AM1 votes

Honesly, he doesn't need more mobility, after all he runs like a goddamn torpedo.

He need some form of survivability that he can use while still fighting so that melee carry can actually carry without being miles ahead of the enemies. (and even then one good cc just destroys him)

Think about it, Xin has an armor and mr steroid, Jax has his e and an armor and mr steroid, Tryn can just not die for 5 seconds, Yas has his shield and windwall, Aatrox got the heals as well. All of these can be used while fighting and are core to a melee's ability to carry a game because they are in so much more danger than a ranged carry is.

Sasogwa3/5/2017, 6:25:32 AM1 votes

No. Just no. Yi's W is one of the most interesting parts of Master Yi's kit and is very versatile (sustain, burst reducing, auto-attack reset, highlander maintaining). It's definitely a core part of his identity and should never be removed. For most Yi players, yi's kit is fine and the actual complaints we would have about his viability are the uncalled for changes around his ult : base duration 10 -> 7s annoying for duels ; amplified duration 4s -> 7s useless and unnecessary overkill, if you have a kill or assist on one person, it's already enough. And the nerfs on R cd making yi just even more centered on powerfarming because of the really short window where he can actually fight. And NO, Yi can't fight without his ult in a decent elo. Oh btw

So first of all There is an inherent problem in his kit, he has the damage output of a melee assassin with the survivability of a more tanky fighter/bruiser

That's just wrong. Yi's as squishy as any assassin and his defensive base stats suck. Caitlyn has more armor @ lvl 18 than Yi, literally. He just has survivability tools but is not innately tanky. If he was, he could build full damage. Yet, he can't. Bruiser Yi's the best way, because Yi's base stats aren't enough and the meta doesn't allow his kit to work without tanky items (unless you're fed or significantly better than your opponents, aka smurfing). A lot of Yi players even go scaling armor and scaling magic resist to somewhat compensate the fact the base /level defensive stats of Yi are bad.

Kats Pajamas3/5/2017, 6:35:57 AM1 votes

Yi is an assassin and his zhoyna-like-Q takes amazing skill.

Fizz on the other hand is cancer because his character model is a fish.

ZerglingOne3/5/2017, 6:51:43 AM1 votes

The problem with Yi is that he is the lowest damage dealing character that has no CC.

He's in the same boat as Mordekaiser EzrealKatarina Corki Lucian in having no CC but is completely melee and his abilities do shit for damage.

Average damage per game Master Yi: 18305 Mordekaiser: 20624 Ezreal: 22392 Katarina: 21328 Corki: 23376 Lucian: 19880

Huh...whaddaya know about that.

Let's also consider that Master Yi has exactly 2 options. Go all in, or not at all. There's no such thing as non-committal engagements for Yi. When your settings are "off" and "maximum" you have an issue in character design.

All while having some of the most oppressive mana costs in the game.