I want there be a tank support version of ardent censor.

Boatwhistle·Feb 2, 2019·2 votes·1,332 views

Right now you can get guardian, font of life, relic, locket, redemption, and ardent censor on anything with a hard cc to apply the passive many times a fight, so yeah you can use the effect but it's defiantly not optimal. However it would be nice to have a tank focused item with the resistances and all that applies a similar buff to whom ever attacks the CC'd target doing the combo of font of life and ardent in one item that's better for cc supports overall, cost effective for said supports of course. This is pretty much the only item that buffs allies stats offensively in the tank support selection, so it would be nice to have more variety. Over all the support selection should have more variety then it does.

EDIT**: I will reiterate my point as it seems to be misunderstood!**

There is one tank support item that buffs offensive stats. I want an ardent like tank version that procs on allies for attacking a cc'd target. are good items but they don't snowball a winning lane, they protect your adc… while this item increases how dangerous your adc is to others and its the only one. I want another one that offers a different stat(attack speed) that cant be built to better suit a winning lane then something like a knights vow.

37 Comments

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20192 votes

Knights vow? Or maybe crucible? Honestly I'm not sure what exactly you want, what part of ardent censor do you want for a tank item? The shield and heal buff isn't good on most tanks because they don't have shields and heals in their kit. Plenty of items build cdr, or mana regen if that's what you want or if you just want a go to item like ardent censor is for enchanters then knights vow or zekes are the 2 strongest support items for tank supports frozen heart also offers some cdr, armor, mana and slows down the attack speed of nearby enemy champions.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

knights vow and crucible are defensive items, I said I want another offensive item...

I want attack speed to be offered to whom ever attacks the target a tank support cc's much like how shield from enchanters grant attack speed to those they do so.

Knights vow is a pick item, an initiate to offense but not in its self and offensive buff. Zekes is the only tank support item that grants an offensive buff. Frozen heart, again, is defensive...

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20192 votes

Zeke's does that job pretty effectively, IMO. It gives you a slow aura and increases your ally's damage by 30% (or more, because enemies typically have higher armor than MR) and it also gives a little bit of flat damage, as well. It gives great tank stats including mana and CDR, plus the whole thing is super cheap. What more could you want? Not like enchanters have more than one way of buffing their ADC's damage, outside in-kit buffs like Janna/Sona/Nami or maybe Shurelya's. Plus, if the damage amp from Zeke's isn't enough, you can further increase it by getting an Abyssal Mask, or you could even just get Font of Life and proc Ardent yourself with every CC you land. Overall I don't think tanks should be buffing their allies, that's the job of an enchanter. If you want to play a tanky enchanter, you can play Taric or Rakan, or maybe tank Karma. All of those champions can buy Ardent.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

I know about zekes, I put it up there. Granting attack speed however is different since adcs scale really well off of it. The combination of Zekes and a tank version of ardent would also make for a more potent effect over all. Right now you get one form of offensive stats in one item... so even if you are snow balling bot lane and don't really need the defensive support items it doesn't matter you already have zekes and have to get the other anyway. Saying "what more could you want" makes absolutely no sense... cause obviously I am saying I want more then the one offense item ????

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20192 votes

Granting attack speed 10-30% attack speed is less than granting over +30% damage, ADC scale better with multiplicative bonuses like that because attack speed has greatly diminishing returns, even if it does offer them an additional little on-hit tickle. The combination of Zeke's and a tank version of Ardent would be TOO potent, and would make gold funneling strategies much worse. Enchanters you can kill easily if they get caught out, which prevents them from boosting their ADC and other teammates, but a tank will continue to soak up damage much more frequently and get much more reliable use out of that combo. Plus, many champions would be able to take both Ardent AND this new item, like Rakan and Taric for example, who would then grant their ADC much more power than they should be granting. Certain champions like Lux or Gragas or even Veigar might also poach the item because of their CC.

I said "what more could you want?" as in "what more could you want from a single item?" I obviously understand you want more options, I'm saying you already have enough. If you want to increase the damage your team is dealing, you should have to sacrifice your own tankiness. You can't have your cake and eat it too, the closest you can get is with Zeke's.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

If you gave this item the same named passive as ardent then they wouldn't be able to stack, that's why this is a thing in the game. The idea is to make the combo potent, cause they are snow balling, wow the enemy would actually need work around the supports ult and consider this particularly since they are behind. Guess what else, assassins would love it because the ADC would be more easily one shot having less defense... cause countering is actually a thing in the game. Lux, Gragas, and veigar might buy ardent??? WOW!!! its almost like the multitude of other support items already poached by other roles frequently?!?! Totally reason to make sure supports only have a total of about 10 cost effective items for their income.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20192 votes

You just want tanks to be able to give even more power to their ADC without having to sacrifice anything of their own, which is total bullshit. Tanks get their item for buffing ADCs, AKA Zeke's, and enchanters get Ardent. Then, a select few can buy both, while building like a hybrid. Making a tank be able to build damage AND durability on a support budget, especially with snowball synergy like this would be completely broken. Wow, an assassin liking a target that's even squishier? WOW!!! it's almost like they excel at killing squishy targets and rely on tanks not doing their job and peeling for the carries.

You already have your options for building a tank centered around your ADC, you can get Guardian, Font, Zeke's, and Ardent, and many more options after that, then have the rest of your build be full tank if that's really what you want.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

tanks already give more power to there adc in the form of defensive stats, the item I suggest takes up a defensive slot opting for offense instead... its a pace changer, not a buff. As a matter of fact if there is an assassin on the enemy team doing well such an item would be worse to build then locket or knights vow. Rakan and lulu can do the zekes ardent combo very well and guess what, they aren't considered the op supports right now. The tank isn't getting more dmg, he is granting more damage, also the item would produce way less tankiness, this item isn't a substitute to locket or knights vow, its a total alternative. I find it funny you think something like zeds ult range and animation speeds are so much slower and closer then what tanks have to use against it. Its harder for tank support to deal with assassins not the other way around... enchanters like lulu are far far better for dealing with assassin cause they have better range, apply a shield, and utilize more point and click.

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20192 votes

Lulu and rakan aren't considered op for 2 reasons. 1. They have both been nerfed quite frequently in recent patches especially rakan.
2. Carry supports like Pyke and brand are meta because riot can't balance there game and damage is absolutely fucking absurd people abuse this and everyone is just building tons of damage in every role, can you comprehend something like this on a champion that already has a high win rate like thresh? Like yeah lulu and rakan aren't considered op because no matter what you multiple 0 by the end result is still 0.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

The point isn't why aren't rakan and lulu op, why aren't they op if the combo of zekes and ardent aren't op despite how well they can do with the combo. They are evidence that the item I am suggesting being used in combination with zeke would not be as broken as some people seem to think. Again if it were... then rakan and lulu would be considered op.

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20192 votes

Lulu really doesn't use zekes well because of the fact she's not a frontline champion therefore can't efficiently use the half of zekes that requires you to be in the frontline.
Again 100 x 0 is still 0 rakan and lulu are both in a pretty weak state right now so no matter what you build on them the best they'll do is move from trash to mediocre at.

However I do think the concept of an attack speed item for tanks when having an adc that is attack speed reliant but I think they should make zekes a tree item where you can either go down one branch and reach the current zekes or go down another branch and get this new attack speed zekes.

And heres one more thing your biggest argument is that you want tank supports to snowball which they just aren't supposed to if you want to snowball why not play snowball champs?

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

Rathar Dashing can take a page from your book, you did a pretty compelling argument gj.

Lets assume your logic about not being able to fix trash champs with anything no matter how broken is true... Your item tree idea for an alternative zekes is decent. Some champs would simply rather have the frequent attack speed regardless of how good zekes is. Problem with Rakan however was he was OP not too long ago and his typical build didn't include ardent censor, just zekes… so the combo of these passives were yet still not strong enough on him even at his best.

I don't want the support to snowball, I am saying the lane snowballs silly. When you play a champion relient on the adcs damage like a tank support or enchanter you snow ball as a pair. Such an item allows the pair to carry out a snowball better not the support alone. Supports are incapable of snowballing effectively on their budgets so they snow ball something else.

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20191 votes

In reference to the typical rakan build that's interesting because I typically did the opposite but either way I see what you're saying and I think the main point for this is that rakan is very squishy for a frontline champion so buy building ardent he would sacrifice too much tankiness to engage properly I don't think you're fully considering all aspects but this is merely speculation.

In response to not wanting tanks to snowball but rather the pair snowball together, I feel the pair already snowball quite well just in a different way, if you're successfully feeding adc then they are already getting tons of damage items anyway the tank is snowballing by gaining cdr, items to shield and heal, get tankier and generally just keep the adc alive better which is just as crucial if not more so then just tons of damage especially with how huge the new shut down gold bonus is.

One last thing, have you considered the possibility of the item you're proposing getting stolen by cc heavy top laners or junglers thus over shadowing the supports meant to use it?

EDIT:I would like to point out the fact of me saying that you may not be considering all the factors could also be reversed onto me and maybe I am the one failing the see everything clearly humans are after all incredibly biased by nature.

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20192 votes

But... Zeke's is the tank version of ardent. Enchanters build ardent tanks build zekes, and ap supports build like an ap carry

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

no, zekes is a stronger, all inning, and one off item compared to ardent. Ardent on enchanters and anything else that shields from far away can be applied frequently and on many allies no less. These are not the same by any means... they have the same goal and purpose, but dont have the same frequency or type of use at all.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20192 votes

That's because Zeke's is for tanks, and Ardent is for enchanters, two completely different classes of champion (unless you're Taric).

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

Taric who isn't a super strong reliable support, and I am saying more items for tanks... I am not suggesting removing ardent.. I am suggesting adding a new counterpart.

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20192 votes

Ohhhhhhh, it sounds like you want old zekes back where you turn your adc into a goddamn super sayian gold glow and all me too bro me too. But further more tanks aren't meant to do absurd amount of damage especially not a support tank, they're meant to jump in cc the enemy team to death get out, you can try tank/ bruiser pyke black cleaver shreds enemy armor so your adc can do more damage, zekes,
item 3053 , and last option is open to you but I think I would go frozen heart or knights vow. If this doesn't work try going to ap Mages like brand, zyra, or Vel'koz that should give you all the damage your little heart desires.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

totally wrong again!!!!

Old zekes was way more powerful then ardent offering both ap and crit chance to both the support and adc and charged based on attacks rather then a static cool down and needing an ult. In what world do you take anything I said and correlate this, seriously man at a certain point your trying to not understand. ATTACK SPEED!!! not much either, just 10-30% like ardent censor. Lulu can poly morph you and apply ardent censor to her adc with e.. effectively doing the same exact thing I am mentioning only she need not put herself in harms way and can still attack you unlike a tank. Lastly the tank wont be doing damage to you, cause it buffs the adc, not the tank. Like holy cow man.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20192 votes

Lulu doesn't put herself in harms way because she can't, she doesn't have any innate defenses and can't build them effectively. Tanks have better CC and durability, to getting close to enemies is what they should be doing. Tanks take the damage so other champions don't have to. How do you not understand that a tank buffing the damage of another champion is the same thing as them building damage? Like are you that dense?

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

Zeke and her ult are both defense, like seriously. I have done it and it works great if you have the adcs cooperation with item 3085 item 3124 , it melts enemies while they are knocked up no less. Had nothing to say about rakan huh???

Must be super dense since I cant understand how such a passive makes a tank do more damage while lacking a compatible ally to proc and benefit from it while giving the tank more damage means they can do more damage no matter the circumstances. ITS THE SAME THING!!!

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20191 votes

Oh, sorry I didn't mention the other 142 champions different interactions with Zekes+Ardent.

You're not understanding the basic concept of why you're wrong here. If tanks could build full defense items, while multiplying their carry's damage, and still having their own innate utility via CC and other peel, no one would ever play enchanters, and we'd be right back in season 7 where everyone funnels their gold into making one or two super strong carries on their team.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

the petty down votes your doing every time, I love it XD. I mentioned two champions twice, you failed to discredit one and didn't even attempt the other... as far as I am aware the combo isn't meta on anything but rakan. If tanks buffing allies made enchanters obsolete then I wonder why they aren't obsolete because of tanks since tanks already buff allies with zekes, knights vow, locket, and redemtion... maybe its the better scaling enchanters have into the game along with being way safer picks such as janna, I don't know.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20191 votes

I use downvotes to point of posts that are of shitty quality, which all of your posts fit the criteria for. No capitalization, no addressing my arguments and instead just dismissing them, and most of all I love how you grasp at things like "oh, nuh-uh! you didn't mention Rakan! Therefore I win!" like a twelve year old would do.

The combo isn't meta on anyone because enchanters build squishy so they can enchant properly, and don't get close enough to enemies for the Zeke's aura to have any effect. Tanks also don't do this because they need to buy defensive stats to be able to survive in fights long enough to land more CC and peel for their backline. Rakan can get both because his kit allows him to jump into a fight to take advantage of Zeke's, during which he enjoys the defensive stats provided by it, but he also is able to dive to safety with his E should things go awry. Meanwhile he enjoys the AP because it empowers his own durability more than almost any other tank (Q healing, passive shielding and of course Guardian) and he also benefits from the healing power, and can proc it consistently in powerful bursts with all his CC and shielding. If Rakan could do this exact same thing, but be even tankier in the process, he would be broken. There needs to be a distinction between enchanters and tanks, I can't stress that enough to you it seems. Enchanters are meant to directly augment the damage of their carry, via damage increases, movement speed increases, direct healing and direct shielding. Conversely, a tank's job is to prevent the ADC from being harmed, by applying CC to enemies, blocking the damage they would take, and even coming down to taking some of their damage for them with Knight's Vow and Locket. If tanks were able to perform the same job enchanters do, while still keeping their durability, CC and other tank strengths, that would cause a problem.

You're just upset because Zeke's doesn't buff the damage of your allies enough, or consistently enough. You can't, and shouldn't be able to build both defenses for yourself, and increase the damage your ADC deals consistently.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

oh shitty quality, better do it for the worst retort ive seen in months.... there that's better. Oh yes I haven't addressed anything you've said at all accept

**_"Rathar Dashing (NA)

about 2 hours ago Lulu doesn't put herself in harms way because she can't, she doesn't have any innate defenses and can't build them effectively. Tanks have better CC and durability, to getting close to enemies is what they should be doing. Tanks take the damage so other champions don't have to. How do you not understand that a tank buffing the damage of another champion is the same thing as them building damage? Like are you that dense? Reply Quote Permalink Report

Boatwhistle (NA)

about an hour ago Zeke and her ult are both defense, like seriously. I have done it and it works great if you have the adcs cooperation with , it melts enemies while they are knocked up no less. Had nothing to say about rakan huh??? Must be super dense since I cant understand how such a passive makes a tank do more damage while lacking a compatible ally to proc and benefit from it while giving the tank more damage means they can do more damage no matter the circumstances. ITS THE SAME THING!!!" _** and...

**_"Rathar Dashing (NA)

43 minutes ago Oh, sorry I didn't mention the other 142 champions different interactions with Zekes+Ardent. You're not understanding the basic concept of why you're wrong here. If tanks could build full defense items, while multiplying their carry's damage, and still having their own innate utility via CC and other peel, no one would ever play enchanters, and we'd be right back in season 7 where everyone funnels their gold into making one or two super strong carries on their team. Reply Quote Permalink Report

Boatwhistle (NA)

32 minutes ago the petty down votes your doing every time, I love it XD. I mentioned two champions twice, you failed to discredit one and didn't even attempt the other... as far as I am aware the combo isn't meta on anything but rakan. If tanks buffing allies made enchanters obsolete then I wonder why they aren't obsolete because of tanks since tanks already buff allies with zekes, knights vow, locket, and redemtion... maybe its the better scaling enchanters have into the game along with being way safer picks such as janna, I don't know."_**

contain utterly a perfect matching subject and content where I even eluded to your arguments, how about no blowing lies out of your ass, fake news. I pointed out you didn't bother mentioning rakan cause you didn't bother mentioning rakan though he is the champion most qualified in the game to prove my point, as in the most valid thing you had an option to argue with. Am I wrong to believe you didn't because you couldn't? If so then do so, if not I think whatever I want about it because its extremely valid. Also you are a hypocrite as you say I didn't address your arguments, and right here is an example of argument not being addressed by you. Saying why rakan is the way he is did not explain why he isn't considered very good right now despite the combo, which was pointed out in my first response. Rakans heals and shields for this hypothetical item would not proc meaning he would only get value from w and ult meaning he would have to go in. As in where right now you can just shield two attack speed carries right now and be safe as a janna, with such an item you must always go in and land the cc to do it... also no ap or additional heal and shield strength nor will his redemption be as good for him - there are down sides to consider, not just more tankiness. Enchanters would still far out compete tank supports for buffing allies because it will always be in their kits as well. They will also still scale better(something you dismissed that was very relevant... again) and synergize better with buffing allies then tanks could. Remember this type of item is only for a snow balling duo that don't benefit from more defense... meaning it wont be all the time, only situationally for most. Rakan would probably be the best with it yeah, but we are talking about a champ that trash right now so god forbid he become meta as a result.

Zekes is my favorite support item, if I had to chose to have this instead of zekes I would rather just keep zekes… this isn't from a lack of satisfaction in zekes, its from a lack of satisfaction in item selection. Talking about not being able to stress things enough... defensive items are wasted on a snowballing bot lane and tank supports have one offensive, how dare this inequality of influence be addressed I guess.

Edit: Oh yeah I forgot, yes I am disatified with the damage contribution tank supports provide to a snow balling lane, that's the entire point. How one would interpret it differently enough to warrant pointing it out baffles me.

ModKnightsKemplarFeb 2, 20192 votes

I don't think your point is terribly misunderstood. Multiple offensive items is just going to further contribute to damage creep, which is particularly problematic on tank supports that also bring hard cc. Zeke's is enough.

I understand perfectly well what you're asking for, I just think it would break the game.

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20191 votes

After rereading your post I think I understand what you want a little more and there's good news you can do it with your runes and the best part is that you get a free item slot to use on something else so now i'm going to tell you the runes and items I used on almost all tank supports and hope it helps. Primary tree, RESOLVE: After shock, after landing hard cc your Mr and armor will slightly increase further more after a small delay a small explosion will happen around you damaging nearby enemy champions. Font of line ccing an enemy champion will cause allies who attack said champion will heal. Second wind or bone plating: both are good up to you to decide if you rather have flat damage reduction or a heal I believe bone plating is better early game and second wind is better late game so kind of depends on your adc if you have an early game monster like draven or trist go bone plating dominate the early game and snow ball if you have a late game hyper carry like vayne or ez then second wine is probably the better option. Overgrowth. I forgot exactly what it does but I remember I would grab it I think it grants armor and Mr after 10 minutes but don't quote me. SECONDARY TREE INSPIRATION: Biscuits because biscuits that is all Cosmic insight: increases your max cdr while also giving you cdr and it helps with cdr on sums and items. Op op. STATS: for your offense tree take cdr Flex take armor Defense take hp or armor depending on the enemy adc.

Now you get into game let's talk about your build, most tanks will build relic and some pots but rakan and thresh are special and opt for coin mainly because they aren't melee and they're also mana whore's also start yellow trink. Early items 2nd support item, boots tier1, refillable potion, and a control ward you ideally want these all on your first back if you don't consider yourself behind even if you and your enemy is in a stalemate and no one is killing each other you're behind your own mile stones. You want mobis on an early third back this helps you roam and ward. Now let's look at the rest of the full build. Knights and zekes the two most powerful tank support items by far if you are destroying lane get zekes first if not get knights vow, 2nd finish either knights vow or zekes depending on what you built first just build the item you didn't build, next two items locket and redemption, redemption is an extremely powerful item and is my favorite support item when used properly it can win a team fight so generally you want to build this item 3rd there's 2 exceptions.

the enemy team has assassin with a stealth that can sneak up on your adc and can do terrible things to them while no one is able to hear their screams.
You and your adc are smurfs or gods or both and your somehow on your third item before laneing phase is over. Final item which ever you didn't build last. This build offers tons of CDR sustain and buffs your carry out the ass and provides absolutely everything you could ever want as a support. Few notes, don't upgrade your support item to tier 3 until last its not worth it, get control wards everytime you have the gold and room for them. Swap yellow trinket for red upon completion of support item quest. Sell refillable potion at lvl 9 as it starts to fall off round that level . Hope this helped!

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

I am glad to see you are understanding me a bit better but I already know of zekes focused builds, its my favorite support item. My problem is outside of zekes passive everything else is defensive. So if you and your adc do well and get a snow abll rolling the best you can do to assist in immediate danger to enemies is the zekes, I want to be able to build another item after zekes that further and more often increase my adcs damage output. If your adc doesn't really need protected, then more offensive buffing options should be available. Also I consider knights vow to be trash on thresh and especially rakan. They get half the benefit for being ranged... and rakan is barely ranged needing to do everything in the enemies face.

TL CarnageFeb 2, 20191 votes

Yeah I usually build rakan more to the enchant side, I still like it on thresh purely because I can soak a percentage of damage my adc takes and worry a little less about the heal. Now question about your item does it need to be on enemies you cc or can it be a bondage item like zekes or knights, I think a bound item that kind of works like old zekes where you build charges for movement and attacks then your or your bound targets next basic or spell after reaching max charges increases both champions by attack speed by x amount for y long, feel like an item where you cc an enemy and anyone who attacks that enemy would be hard to code and be too strong.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

during cc they must be damaged, they then get the ardent like buff for 6 seconds. Ardent building supports frequently put the buff on many allies on demand. Lulu can do the same thing as what I am saying by taking font of life and applying polymorph to an enemy and this isn't counting redemption, her shield, aery, and ult that allow her to apply it super often. Ardent procs way more then I think most believe.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20191 votes

Nami can apply Ardent with any of her spells if she takes Aery, and again with her Q, E and R if she takes Font. Sona applies Ardent to everyone nearby with her W, and to one more ally with Q and E if she has Aery. Soraka can apply Ardent every 2 seconds with her W, with her Q if she takes Font, and of course her ult applies it to everyone globally. Lux can also apply it twice to her entire team on one use of W, and of course most champs who build Ardent also build Redemption, which can also proc it. Doesn't matter if you can proc it most often, since the buff lasts 6 seconds, it matters how many people you can buff at once, and Lulu can only ever buff one champion at a time with her abilities, so she would rely on her CC +font procs from her Q, W and R.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

its lulus core item.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20191 votes

Yeah, it's her core item, but that doesn't make her the best user of it. Stormrazor is core on Jinx, doesn't mean she's the best user of that. You said she procced it more than most, I showed how others proc it it more than her.

BoatwhistleFeb 2, 20191 votes

No I didn't? you are lying again. "Lulu can do the same thing as what I am saying by taking font of life and applying polymorph to an enemy" How that translates to claiming she can use it the best idk. I think you just have a personal issue where you must argue or maybe the other comments are giving you an antagonistic view of me.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ardent procs way more then I think most believe.

Right there. How the fuck am I lying again, I haven't lied once. I get it, Lulu procs ardent a lot, but I was just pointing out that other champions can proc it more. I like adding context to things and showing the nuance that a lot of people miss. I have an antagonistic view of you now because you can't seem to understand a single argument I bring up, or you're just intentionally ignoring it because of your bias.

Rathar DashingFeb 2, 20192 votes

Overgrowth grants flat HP for every minion that dies near you, eventually giving you a small %max HP bonus. It's okay for some champions, but a lot of others you'll want to get Revitalize. Revitalize boosts the power of all your incoming and outgoing healing and shielding, which includes your Font of Life procs, your Relic Shield procs, your Knight's Vow healing, your Locket and Redemption (especially this because of its scaling) actives, and of course any innate healing or shielding your champion may have (Taric Q and W, Rakan passive, Q and E, Thresh W, Alistar passive, etc.). I don't think it affects biscuits, because that counts as HP5.

Secondary, depending on the champ, I might go precision. Here I can get Legend: Tenacity for more Tenacity, which helps against comps with high CC so I can get my own CC off while soaking it up for my team, and after that I can either get Triumph for more healing (which benefits from Revitalize) and a little extra gold per assist, or Presence of Mind to help with the more mana-hungry champions or those who I ult a lot with.