Big Buff Lady Tank

gatchi·Oct 11, 2015·46 votes·10,013 views

Im glad there are actual female tanks but so many of them are scrawny! Leona only looks like a tank because giant shield, and Shyvana is half dragon so i guess that implies she's hardier... But when are we gonna get a Garen-like tank thats a chick? Or at least a big, buff female champ, or a giant momma bear champ, or a lady Braum! Rito, there's gotta be some lady artist at your joint who would be into making this.

Here's some inspo (dont know the source, sorry!): http://s13.postimg.org/ca7je6147/1434416958316.png

90 Comments

DrShokingOct 11, 201530 votes

poppy is a small buff lady tank. Poppy

gatchiOct 11, 20159 votes

Yeh! I really hope she doesnt lose that quality with her rework. Shes so badass and im worried their gonna turn her into a cute, spritely assasin. :/

Lt CuddlesOct 11, 201517 votes

I'd prefer to see her in a bruiserish kind of role~ https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBwrFv5FsN0fDlnA1B2XeJTlP2yfnHmJbiDET2OcXxTGbcyksdAA

terkmcOct 11, 20152 votes

Hey that's my picture q-q

SulghunterOct 11, 20155 votes

Actually, it makes sense that poppy's a space marine in terminator armor with a thunder shield. The levels of bs are similar.

gatchiOct 13, 20151 votes

omgggg xD fuckin perf

Lt CuddlesOct 14, 20152 votes

Love and lust are completely different! How dare you sir/ma'am! Good day! https://raiazlan.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/howdareyou.gif

NeameanOct 11, 20153 votes

I think she was confirmed to be more of a tank for her rework.

DwarvenGiantOct 11, 20152 votes

Not only she'll be more of tank and a lot less of an assassin after her Update, but I also remember that IronStylus said on his stream that Poppy's body structure is gonna be a little different and beefier than Trist's. :)

RiotKindlejackOct 11, 201523 votes

It doesn't take a 'lady artist'; there are many artists at Riot that are strong advocate for equal representation trust me. Having said that we have a number of awesome female artists too!

So yeah I totally agree.

Photos of GhostsOct 11, 20153 votes

It's not about equal representation, league champs aren't democratically elected. It's about common sense: a strong person is more likely to be useful in war than a weakling.

TerraRisingOct 11, 20155 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't take a 'lady artist'; there are many artists at Riot that are strong advocate for equal representation trust me. Having said that we have a number of awesome female artists too!

So yeah I totally agree.

So... what is actually stopping Riot from making such a champion?

Currently, there are four female champions in League who would be considered "tanky."

Leona - Superheroine physique in armor with a big shield.
Sejuani - Formerly bikini-clad warrior from the frigid north.
Shyvana - Half-dragon lady with carefully placed armor plates, otherwise scantily clad (Classic skin).
Rek'sai - Bestial inhuman jungler, can be regarded as "female in lore only."

I mean, there has to be some legitimate reason why we can't have a "Mother Bear"-type champion in LoL. Do people from marketing or animation on the champion committees veto or downvote such a design as "not marketable" or "not League enough?" Are the "advocates for equal representation" within the art department just not strong enough to stand firm and say "No, this champ has to be done as a strong, brawny female."

It's one thing to say that there's a desire for certain designs. It's another to actually do that.

GreenLoreOct 11, 20153 votes

In the early days they were a bit more focused on fanservice,which is most likely the reason why they didn't do such a champion back then.

However as time passed,they started to make more diverse champs over time and I think currently the explanation is simply that they didn't get to do a champ like that for now. I mean you say "there has to be a legitimate reason for not having a champ like this",but you could apply that logic to every kind of concept.

Duke AnaxOct 11, 20151 votes

Well I remember Braum originally was a big brawny female engineer with a huge shield somewhat like Jayce and his hammer.

I have no idea how they got from there to a big buff male shepherd wielding a door, but I'd say Braum turned out just right in the end.

So yeah you could say simply none of their champions turned out like that yet.

GreenLoreOct 11, 20151 votes

I actually talked about that in a different reply of this thread. The concept of the female engineer as a shieldguard was changed because people complained that there are too many girly supports in the game,thus they decided to genderflip the champ and make it the manliest of them all.

Duke AnaxOct 11, 20152 votes

quite ironic considring this thread...

GreenLoreOct 12, 20154 votes

Not that much considering that said female engineer wasn't that buff https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_ecw76U8AA4etk.jpg:large

Sure she had some visible muscles,but they aren't that outstanding.

gatchiOct 14, 20151 votes

sheds tear you will not be forgotten my lady...

GreenLoreOct 14, 20151 votes

Overall I think that they haven't given up on that concept. They tried to do her twice already(the first concept turned into vi),so it looks like it is something they really wanna do

OyddAWqJ5rOct 11, 201515 votes

Because Rito doesn't just have a meeting one day and go "omg guys, we need big chix." No, they think of awesome stories and themes and concepts and slap em all together into one big awesome and cohesive champion.

For example, Jinx was more than just "err merr gerrd guys we need flat chested chix!" - que development

And Rek'Sai wasn't just "ermergerd GUYS! We.Need.MONSTER CHIX." - que development

TerraRisingOct 11, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=7P082r30,comment-id=000500030001,timestamp=2015-10-11T18:50:40.846+0000)

Because Rito doesn't just have a meeting one day and go "omg guys, we need big chix." No, they think of awesome stories and themes and concepts and slap em all together into one big awesome and cohesive champion.

It could be that. It could just as easily that someone came up with a "buff lady" idea and it was vetoed during the process for some less than savory reasons.

Take, as an example, Vi. Vi, a champion with big gauntlets that punches things to oblivion, could have easily been a buff tank lady. Maybe not to the level of the OP's suggestion, but certainly strong-looking enough to not need a harness to carry her gloves.

Instead, someone at Marketing/E-Commerce might have said "We can't market a concept this 'brutal' as easily as we could a more attractive female. Please change it." Or, one of those "strong advocate for equality" concept artists might have said "I don't want to draw this champion as a buff woman, but as an alternative model with a pink mohawk and a steel corset."

Hence, an opportunity is lost because of individual decisions within a group. More than possible, either way...

For example, Jinx was more than just "err merr gerrd guys we need flat chested chix!" - que development

That's funny. You actually point to the one example where the concept artist, TeaTime, drew something unexpected (a short, skinny champion with lots of guns) and the team went with it all the way.

NegaDKROct 12, 20152 votes

With all the romantic subtext between Vi and Caitlyn, would making her into this big, brawny, lady really be the better choice? Wouldn't people complain about the fact that one of the few non-traditionally designed women characters in the game "has" to be gay?

TerraRisingOct 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

With all the romantic subtext between Vi and Caitlyn, would making her into this big, brawny, lady really be the better choice? Wouldn't people complain about the fact that one of the few non-traditionally designed women characters in the game "has" to be gay?

Unfortunately, the only "romantic subtext" between Caitlyn and Vi has come from fan artists and fan fiction writers, not from Riot. It's more "wishful thinking" by fans than anything, to be honest.

Kuroi86Oct 11, 20151 votes

I mean, there has to be some legitimate reason why we can't have a "Mother Bear"-type champion in LoL.

To quote a Red, Riot needs more than "Buff mother bear type champ lol!" to make a champion. They need art concept, a kit idea, lore, ect and so on. It's entirely possible to get this type of champ made, but there's a good bit of foot work involved. Riot already has a docket full of champs on the way, so while it's possible they may do this kind of champ in time, it could be a while before they are ready to release something like that. IMO, the quickest way to get a champ like this in the works, the players need to jump in and put together ideas, concepts, kits, lore, all the works. The less Riot has to work on, the faster they can work to put together a champ. Braum

TerraRisingOct 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

To quote a Red, Riot needs more than "Buff mother bear type champ lol!" to make a champion. They need art concept, a kit idea, lore, ect and so on. It's entirely possible to get this type of champ made, but there's a good bit of foot work involved. Riot already has a docket full of champs on the way, so while it's possible they may do this kind of champ in time, it could be a while before they are ready to release something like that.

From what I've gathered over the past four years, Riot mostly works by committee. They have game designers, artists, animators, narrative writers, marketers and other people gather to work on new champions, starting at the concept phase. Then, after a period of time, they come back to review ideas and concepts before focusing on specific directions (art, story, animation, gameplay, etc.)

I'll use Vi as an example, again.

Vi is a young woman who punches opponents with large gauntlets. She can be built fairly tanky and still be effective in the game. Now, at this concept level, someone might have had Sarah Robles (American powerlifter) or Beth Phoenix (WWE Diva/wrestler) in mind for a gauntlet-wearing tanky puncher. Instead, the concept artist chose to use "Suicide Girl in a steel corset" as the basis for the champion. For various reasons (easier sell, fun design choice, excited to draw and animate hot chick, etc) the committee chose to move forward with the "suicide girl" model concept.

IMO, the quickest way to get a champ like this in the works, the players need to jump in and put together ideas, concepts, kits, lore, all the works. The less Riot has to work on, the faster they can work to put together a champ.

Weeeellllllll..... Braum ain't exactly Angus the Puncher, is he? Inspired by, possibly, but Braum was actually "Cece the Hextech Engineer" at first until they went in a new direction.

I mean, I really hope Riot does meet this goal for a buff lady champ some day, but I'm not going to buy the idea that they "haven't had the opportunity" during the past four plus years.

patmax17Oct 14, 20151 votes

This image is taken from "The Lady Knight Challenge" http://www.themarysue.com/tumblr-lady-knights-dogbomber/ It's basically a randomizer of five traits to draw female knights. The "body" tag is actually a quite good collection of possibile body builds, from skinny to bulky to top-heavy or short or athletic. It can be a good reference for future champs ^^

DecritOct 11, 201511 votes

Honestly? having a female buff warrior just for the sake of being female it just cheap.

Consider Braum: at the beginning he was female! Then he ~~got an operation~~ he was changed into a male for other design reasons ( probably because they can then hire an actor with a male warm deep voice, or play with the mustache thing or something else).

So is not about the gender, but rather how that gender might help or not translate some messages and feelings.

GreenLoreOct 11, 201510 votes

In braums case he was changed to male because players complained about all the supports being too girly This was one of the inspirations for Braum: http://st.elohell.net/public/chill/b1bc19ddec51632cb25a8b560b5e8602.jpg (though I think it was made before threshs release)

However I agree that just making a buff woman just for the sake of having a buff woman is on its own not enough for a champ,but it is something that should be included in the game eventually.

AnidanOct 11, 20152 votes

Good ol' Angus. Now we just need Barn, the Sentient Barn.

BrascusOct 11, 20158 votes

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqCFQ0pqW_eLvYNMhhurb6W-rr-zsYVMhabdAd9L32QRPT8b1WVg

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/BrawnHilda_8191.jpg

http://leogrin.com/CimmerianBlog/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/FemaleDwarf-PURDY.jpg

Tentakill MyselfOct 11, 20157 votes

She should be black and her name should be Rolanda.

I'm sure we all know a big black woman named Rolanda.

kaltenashesOct 11, 20156 votes

Sejuani no one likes sej...i bought her,then i refunded (plz riot)

GreenLoreOct 11, 20154 votes

The thing is that sejuani looks rather slim and wears full body armor,so it is hard to say if she is buff or not(her traditional skin would suggest she isn't really buff at all). The opener probably wants a woman whose body shape is more comparable to Braum or Gragas.

kaltenashesOct 11, 20151 votes

ok so a fat bearded lady

GreenLoreOct 11, 20153 votes

Well there is the bearded lady from bilgewater xD: http://am-a.akamaihd.net/image?f=http://news.cdn.leagueoflegends.com/public/images/articles/2015/august_2015/BBA/Bilgewater_Serpent01notext_1920x1550.jpg&resize=1536:

gatchiOct 13, 20151 votes

Right. Although i do headcanon Sej as being super buff under that armor. I love her VU!

SaphixiaOct 11, 20155 votes

Oh look a portrait of Poppy 'nuff said

BârdOct 11, 20154 votes

Confirmed: poppy has a tiger in her rework

TwoDOct 11, 20153 votes

big butt lady tank

Champion SkinOct 12, 20152 votes

Well I don't think it is a good idea to go out from the standpoint of.. We need to create a female braum/garen champion... As that's rather restrictive and might turn out rather bad and having her gender/character being rather forced/pushed in even if it doesn't fit or work all that well

I don't think the focus should be on the gender/race of the characters but that the characters are good and well made

gatchiOct 14, 20151 votes

But thats how they made a champ like Garen. Garen is a stereotypical middle ages white knight, defender of the good. They took that seed and developed it. You could do the same with this. No one is saying "make a champ without much thought".

Champion SkinOct 14, 20151 votes

So basically we take the seed and make a female Garen... because? Female?

I just don't see the idea I think it is much better if the one creating the champion has their own ideas which interest them and makes them want to create the champion and make it good instead of trying to force an idea into a champion

gatchiOct 14, 20151 votes

What? No. I was just using Garen as an example. Obviously if they cant make anything unique enough that theyd be proud of we wont see a big buff lady tank. And you are right; if someone isnt inspired to make a particular champ, then they shouldnt. But i would bet anything theres at least some woman at Riot who wants to make a champ like this and has ideas for something cool and unique but hasnt gotten a pass cause Rito doesnt think we want it or something. All im saying is this is something id like to see. Riot likes seeing our suggestions, right? And a lot of them make it into champs. I dont believe Riot will just stop making tanks, so if any of them can be a big buff lady then they should seriously consider it. It would make me, and so many other female players, really happy.

I get if a big buff lady tank wouldnt mean anything to you. I dont expect it to mean a lot to everyone. But it does mean a lot to some of us.

Champion SkinOct 14, 20151 votes

Sure

Oh and what's with this

But i would bet anything theres at least some woman at Riot who wants to make a champ like this and has ideas for something cool and unique

Is there any particular reason it would be a woman? Like Leona was designed by a guy if I remember correctly

gatchiOct 22, 20151 votes

I already explained this in another comment thread to more detail, but i'll summarize here -- I just trust female artists to get the job done better. They do a better job at drawing female champs. I'm zero percent surprised Leona was drawn by a guy. Boob armor, skinny as hell, big luxurious model hair instead of a helmet and splotchy, not functional armor. She only looks like a tank cause she has a giant shield (one with a giant hole in it, on top of that), and even then barely. Take away a shield, and youd never let her into combat, much less be a tank, she'd snap like a twig. I'm sure she's very fappable, but thats the problem -- making champs pretty instead of cool and badass. Girls tend to not do that, cause they want to make a cool person they can see themselves as, not make something a guy will enjoy aesthetically.

NilokOct 12, 20152 votes

I think it is more the frustration with only having slim or athletic female characters. It isn't about representation or identification, but boredom.

It is very much, "oh another standard female body type with an accessory that shows their role", such as punching, defending, shooting. While there are some standouts, and some make sense, there isn't anything as clean or concise as a Dwarf style character for instance that you can tell at a glance can take a heavy hit even without any signifying gear like a shield. The obviously female tanks look tanky due to their equipment, not because they themselves are tough. Sejuani is probably the closest character, but still stops at being athletic instead of stout.

I am personally doubtful Poppy will be reworked into that role based on what Riot has been saying about the rework and instead double down on the "small girl with giant hammer" motif.

patmax17Oct 12, 20152 votes

source is here: http://dogbomber.tumblr.com/post/78625990535/finally-got-this-one-done-lady-knight-4-mace :)

gatchiOct 14, 20151 votes

Thank you!!