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Whats a good ultimate for this WIP Champion?

Arakadia··8 votes·1,730 views

Numbers are not final. Kit is not final. I just want a good ult idea. Constructive Critisism is fine, but I'm looking for an ult.

This champion is meant to be an AD caster/assassin that would fill the jungle role.

Passive: Champion carries around runes on their belt. These runes are expended upon basic attacking or hitting an enemy champion or large monster with a spell, dealing physical damage . The runes fly after the enemy champion. After 13.5 seconds total out of combat, Champion reloads on runes (max 3 can be held). After all 3 runes have been used, Champion will collect 3 new runes after a 3.125 second delay. Each rune has a unique effect:

First Rune: Deals damage based on current health and slows enemy hit.

Second Rune: Deals damage based on target's missing health and explodes, dealing small AoE damage.

Third Rune: Deals damage based on the target's missing health and stuns the target for .75 seconds.

Q: Boiling Bolt: Champion blasts off a fiery bolt of fire foward that deals physical damage and consumes Calligraphic Marks to the first enemy hit. Damage by Champion is amplified for 3.5 seconds to the target hit by this bolt, including the damage from Boiling Bolt and Calligraphic Marks. Around 675 range.

W: Fortune Bent: Champion fires off 3 burning squares of parchment with calligraphic characters that reflect the future. If a non-ally unit is hit, they are marked with a Calligraphic Mark and take DoT physical burn over 4.5 seconds. Boiling Bolt will consume this mark to deal any remaining damage, amplify the damage, and deal light bonus magic damage. Around 500 range.

E: Brazier Blast: Champion points their fiery pot down to the ground and triggers an explosion within the pot. The explosion causes Champion to fly up and over a short distance (Around 275 units). If Champion would land within the middle of a wall, Champion instead lands upon the wall and can see both sides. Champion can walk around on the wall and moving where a wall is not will causes Champion to hop down to that side of the wall. Champion can be seen from both sides of the wall and if damaged will have 1.5 seconds to hop down before Champion hops to the side of the wall opposite of where the damage came from. Consuming a Calligraphic Mark will reset Brazier Blast's cooldown.

R: Suggestions highly valued. Possible ideas include sending a fiery spirit dragon from the bronze pot Champion carries around or a charge based ultimate like Akali or Kog'Maw's low cd ult.

35 Comments

ModEchoing16 votes

That's rich. Regonas, Lord "In addition", thinks the passive is overloaded.

Bah. Stand back, I'm a certified hater!

Irony aside, he's right. That's way too much stuff to keep track of in a fight, and since they get expended on basic attacks, you can't CS without losing them. I suggest simplifying the rune effects to just one, and have them regenerate one at a time. It's consistent for both sides in what they do and when you get them back.

The E is completely random in relation to the kit. A champion that appears to be a calligraphy-based mage walking on walls like some sort of cat burglar doesn't seem appropriately thematic no matter how you slice it.

Also, I IDed your champion as a mage instead of an AD caster before I remembered to scroll back up to read your original intent. Generally, AD casters like Pantheon, Urgot, and Zed are a lot more physical in their abilities. Boiling Bolt and Fortune Bent are very clearly magic. You've got a thematic disconnect there.

Anyways, assuming you change nothing (unwise), your kit is lacking in actual burst. You have a W-Q combo, and that's it. Maybe the random runes will help burst a guy down, but after your two hits you're now relying on your AAs. Your gap closer is also, honestly, pretty bad - in terms of raw distance, every champion with a dash can go farther or do more with it. Your ult should fill in this gap. You could dragon yourself up and charge through a location, damaging everyone in the way and reactivating to stop moving (but not ulting) early. You could set up a spinning circle of calligraphy tags that damage and apply marks to the first unit hit. You could draw a line, and after a delay, a giant pillar of fire sweeps across that line, like the Viktor E from hell. They'd all work to offset your lack of burst.

Whatever you do, keep it simple. Overcomplicated ults have too many things to balance and go wrong fast.

Arakadia1 votes

The E is completely random in relation to the kit. A champion that appears to be a calligraphy-based mage walking on walls like some sort of cat burglar doesn't seem appropriately thematic no matter how you slice it.

It does seem like that but trust me.... its thematic and strange. Maybe a little too strange.

Also, I IDed your champion as a mage instead of an AD caster before I remembered to scroll back up to read your original intent. Generally, AD casters like Pantheon, Urgot, and Zed are a lot more physical in their abilities. Boiling Bolt and Fortune Bent are very clearly magic. You've got a thematic disconnect there.

This was a concern of mine. However in the end I decided it was ok because champions like Katarina and Cho'gath (in my opinion) would seem like their AD however their AP. And Riven and Illaoi who look like they could be either AP.

Anyways, assuming you change nothing (unwise), your kit is lacking in actual burst. You have a W-Q combo, and that's it. Maybe the random runes will help burst a guy down, but after your two hits you're now relying on your AAs. Your gap closer is also, honestly, pretty bad - in terms of raw distance, every champion with a dash can go farther or do more with it. Your ult should fill in this gap. You could dragon yourself up and charge through a location, damaging everyone in the way and reactivating to stop moving (but not ulting) early. You could set up a spinning circle of calligraphy tags that damage and apply marks to the first unit hit. You could draw a line, and after a delay, a giant pillar of fire swee

That was kind of the idea. You want to jump in (maybe over a wall) and go W>Q. Your E would be refreshed and you could jump closer again. This ability is strange though.

Irony aside, he's right. That's way too much stuff to keep track of in a fight, and since they get expended on basic attacks, you can't CS without losing them. I suggest simplifying the rune effects to just one, and have them regenerate one at a time. It's consistent for both sides in what they do and when you get them back.

I wasn't very clear about it. They don't expend on minions, only large monsters and champions. Currently this guy has like no CC so maybe I'll make it so if you hit all 3 on the same target they stun but nothing else.

I also forgot to mention that his runes recharge faster based on critchance and scale off AD.

Thanks for taking your time, i know you spent alot.

regonas3 votes

K, i will be a lad and help you out.

First thing first, the whole kit. Passive - might be a tiny bit overloaded. I, personally, think this is great way to deal mixed damage and track different types of attacks, but there are so many simpleminded people who would view this as "too much, overloaded, broken, blah blad". Keep that in mind. Q - simple, effective, heavily depends on good numbers. W - same as Q, but is AOE. E - i am hugely oppose to this. You don't really know where you end hopping, wall riding is always a bad idea. This have very small range, so is pretty much useless when used not nearby a wall. If you really want to keep this ability, i would suggest "jump into targeted area, if you land on the ground, then create an explosion, if you land on the wall, then you will be able to walk on the wall".

So, your champion is someone who works in cycles (flow), ability after ability. He doesn't benefit for different combo, but rather in using certain abilities after certain abilities: E -> W -> Q -> E or W -> E -> Q -> E. Passive is just a flavor effect and has nothing to do with the rest of the kit. Base suggestion:

  1. R could change the rotation or allow be used for different benefits;
  2. R could tie passive with the rest of the kit;
  3. R could add more ways to use the rest of the kit.

#My suggestion for R

Rune of eternity Activating this ability will refresh all your runes and cause forth rune to circle around you for 6 sec. This rune does a full circle over 3 sec. If you aim your Q through this forth rune (align your Q to go through forth rune) , then your Q will consume all your passive runes and trigger their effects on this Q hit. In addition, while R lasts, your Q will have greatly reduced cooldown and if it hits an enemy champion, all your passive runes will be instantly refreshed.

This way, you will have a little bit complex, but fun ability. It offers quite a lot of damage, if you position yourself right. If have high skill ceilings, interesting an unique mechanics and should fit fit the theme.

Possible flow with R: E -> W -> R -> Q -> E -> Q - standard rotation to use as many abilities as possible. Works great with spellblade. W -> E -> R -> Q -> E -> Q - tandard rotation to use as many abilities as possible. Works great with spellblade. R -> E -> W -> Q -> E -> Q - alternative rotation, focusing of dps rather than on burst. Have overall smaller total damage, but gives more things to do through the duration of R. R -> W -> E -> Q -> E -> Q - alternative rotation, focusing of dps rather than on burst. Have overall smaller total damage, but gives more things to do through the duration of R. W -> R -> Q -> E -> Q - shorter standard rotation. W -> R -> Q - shortest standard rotation, mainly for poke.

ModEchoing9 votes

In addition

Take a shot.

Also, for everyone else, this is how you DON'T make an ult. Each line break in that description is an ultimate-level effect by itself. Cheating your cooldowns is INCREDIBLY powerful - note how Zilean gives up an entire ability to do it - and being able to apply the passive runes' now-refreshed quantity all at once on one hit is an astronomic amount of burst...that relies on a skillshot landing (not bad by itself) after passing through an arbitrary target (horrible - unnecessary skill gating for no reason). It's far too easy to flub and feel bad, and if that happens, you wasted not only your ult, but your Q cooldown. Even with a reduced Q cooldown, odds are you'd only get a second shot at it since you have to take time to line up your shot.

Also also, if you find yourself saying "In addition" when describing an ability, immediately stop and cut what you were writing. League of Legends thrives on simple abilities with creative applications. Overloading an ability, ironically, cuts down on the applicable situations if you want to keep the champion balanced. If you cut out the "In addition", it could PLAUSIBLY work as an ult. It wouldn't be my favorite, but it could work as a 60 second ult. Keeping that in, however, means that to balance it out, you'd need to ramp up the cooldown to at least 90 seconds since it has such a powerful effect on your overall burst, limiting its overall uptime and your agency on when to use it. Instead of "I need a really powerful shot RIGHT NOW", it becomes "Am I sure I can land my Q multiple times here?" Also, by tying itself to the Q, it forces you to level up Q first no matter what you want to do. You'll probably do it anyways, but it's still taking away agency from the player.

regonas1 votes

Wow, i repeated multiple times i blacklisted hatetards and can't see what they comment, yet they still think i do see them and that care about their pathetic attempts to "stab" me. No, i see only black boxes instead of their comments. And based on their usual "reviews", big black box offers more feedback than anything they could write.

Seems haters never learn :D Boy, i bet this hater, whoever he might be, is just furious, trying to dish my idea in any way possible. I bet words like "no other champion does it" or "riot are against this type of abilities" are more often than sand grains in Sahara.

ModEchoing3 votes

It's true, he did blacklist me.

His loss. Now he looks just plain silly not knowing what I said. It actually works out better this way since I can just make an example out of his posts without having to worry about him countering.

Xidphel3 votes

{quoted}

It's true, he did blacklist me.

His loss. Now he looks just plain silly not knowing what I said. It actually works out better this way since I can just make an example out of his posts without having to worry about him countering.

It's not like he's interested in what you have to say or anything.

Arakadia1 votes

Thanks alot, this feedback was really appreciated. I like the ult idea, not necesarrily the Q reduction, but it is pretty cool with the 4th rune.

The E is strange and will get updated.

I will probably extend the range like you said but remove the reset.

Thanks for taking the time.

regonas1 votes

No problem. You sometimes help me, too.

Off topic, what happened to this post? Last time i saw it, it was +6. Have you argued with a hatetard?

Arakadia1 votes

I'm not sure. Some people probably circlejerked it, but I never saw it as a positive besides when I posted it. I didn't really check on it much tho. I don't really care as this is far from final draft.

regonas2 votes

[deleted]

Arakadia2 votes

They commented yes.

regonas1 votes
<removed>
Elphrihaim1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah of course

because a looot of people think the advice is good.

gj, gj, gj, gj, gj, gj, gj, gj, gj

and by that i mean you're being silly... :/

Arakadia2 votes

Its a little bit of a circle jerk I think he is saying, although I don't know much about the situation myself.

Arakadia1 votes

Yup.

regonas1 votes

Predictable.

Well, best of luck when you post your finished concept.

Arakadia1 votes

Thanks, you to.

Xidphel1 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure. Some people probably circlejerked it, but I never saw it as a positive besides when I posted it. I didn't really check on it much tho. I don't really care as this is far from final draft.

He's asking about Echoing and me apparently.

Arakadia1 votes
<removed>
regonas1 votes
<removed>
ModEchoing1 votes

I wouldn't put it past regonas to try and frame me for this.

I've got one smurf, Cherub Bot, that I never use since Riot's smurf-catching techniques make it totally useless. I've got a couple of friends, but we're all in universal opposition of regonas. I wasn't anticipating a whopping 16 upvotes on my posts, even with the people who agree with me.

Be careful about listening to regonas.

Arakadia1 votes

I will. What do you mean smurf-catching techniques?

Xidphel1 votes

{quoted}

I will. What do you mean smurf-catching techniques?

They fired Gargamel?

ModEchoing1 votes

Riot's matchmaking systems are pretty good. They'll pick up if a low-level account is demonstrating skill way beyond their normal level, and then start matching them against other, similar accounts, meaning smurfs get matched against smurfs.

Which means you were better off playing your level 30 original account with all your bells and whistles.

Qwasania1 votes

R: Champion mixes his runes and makes a Calligraphic Rune. On his Next auto attack he roots himself for 1 second and deals Damage base on his opponents missing health and stunning everyone in an area for 1.5 seconds. After the one second root he summons all the Calligraphic power he has and no longer has to reload for 15 seconds and increases his attack speed by 40% and his movement speed by 30%

Arakadia1 votes

Thats cool, I might use it, but it doesnt fit a AD caster or assassin.

regonas1 votes

:D I could construct for you an awesome ability, with balanced number, unique interactions with the kit and so on. But should i?

Xidphel1 votes

Say no. Thrust me on this one.

Arakadia1 votes

its fine, it won't hurt to get more suggestions.

Arakadia1 votes

Sure, you don't have to put numbers in but ideas are always appreciated.

Ýones1 votes

While creating any ability, you should just brainstorm around some ideas and pick your favorite one, that's how I do them. While I was creating Ludwig, I had alot of trouble finding a good ultimate for him. But I started brainstorming around CRAZY ideas, such as "Take control of target enemy for 3 seconds." "Give an ally doubled cooldown reduction (stacks with other cdr)" "Create a zone where ALL dashes have 1 second cooldown (even flash!)" and so on, but then I finally got his current ultimate. What I could think of at the moment, would be some kind of a dash ability which destroys terrain in its path. At the moment his kit doesn't have alot of dashes or movement speed boosts but his E has an interesting mechanic. :d

Arakadia1 votes

Ok thanks for the advice!

LSmaster161 votes

I don't know his lore so I'm not sure if this would fit but what about an ult that consumes all remaining runes requiring as least one to cast (to lower the chain stun potential) to let him dash to a target and slam it with his pot stunning the target and going into stasis. Then pot turns into a spirit dragon that flies around him dealing damage over three seconds and applying the effects of one rune each second before turning back into a pot. (Stun rune could have a lower effect on the primary target, again to reduce chain stunning)

Also, you could possibly let him activate it twice, the first cast prepping it by not letting him use the third rune for a few seconds so you don't accidently auto something which would stop you from ulting.

The idea is that he can use e to get on a wall to flank, hit a squishy with wq and then ult them to hopefully finish them off while either forcing the other team to leave, giving him an escape or stay to kill him after the ult and risk getting engaged on.

As for the rest of the kit, the runes seem cool and I like the interactions between the basic abilities though you might want to increase e range a bit to make more useful without wall riding.

Arakadia1 votes

Thanks, this helps alot. His runes cannot be expended upon minions or pets btw. That ult sounds cool and if I extend the range of his E he could usee it as an escape.

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