Ironclad Hydra

Sancre··3 votes·344 views

While item 3074 seems suited for Fighters and item 3748 for Juggernauts, I think that a tank hydra would be a nice addition to the hydra's many heads

The Ironclad Hydra (as Dreadnought is already taken by Urgot) is suited for tanks to become tankier and help other frontliners that fight alongside them instead of doing more damage, and it rewards being focused on.

Stats (Can be upped or downed depending on feedback) 300 Health 80 Armor 80 Magic Res

Passive/Active (Values can also be changed based on feedback)

Cleave (Unique): Every time the wielder of the Hydra suffers damage it releases a healing pulse in a small area that heals ally units for a 10% of the wielder's current hp (The healing can be quite good, but depends on the rest of the team helping it too). The pulse is short enough in reach so adcs and mages wont get it if they aren't quite out of position and prone to being destroyed, but other frontliners are in a perfect position to benefit from it.

Crescent (Unique): upon activation, the wielder gets 15% damage reduction for up to 1.5 seconds, adding 1 second more for every ally unit hit by the pulse when cast. Ally units affected by it will get 30% of the wielder's total armor and magic res for as long as the damage reduction on the wielder lasts (20 seconds cooldown)

I would like some feedback to get this item balanced, and hopefully seeing it added later on, as a helpfull item both for tanks and tanky supports

9 Comments

Champion Concept2 votes

You can't have Tiamat turn into that.

M00ndanc31 votes

yeah read our convo below its been changed and he has changed the idea in some parts

Sancre1 votes

I'm waiting to reach a final form of the idea before changing the original post.

I might add Vanguard's Cape as MooNDANC3's idea too, but i think that he should also make a separate topic in the forum to give it better visibility to Riot, as I really think that it would make a very interesting item for tanks.

M00ndanc31 votes

ok im gonna start off with saying that no item in the game other than a gargoyles stoneplate with at least 3 nearby enemies have that much armor and magic resistance so you might wannna tone that down a bit. Also hydra items are made for wave clear and were i can agree a tank based hydra is nice it will always have ad because hydras are made from tiamat which has ad so you would have to add that stat. Also instead of healing off of them hitting you why don't you stick with the hydra theme and make it where it does aoe damage like the other and have nearby allies heal for a percent of the damage but make the damage scale of armor and magic resistance in a simular way that iceborn gauntlet scales off of armor. so instead how about its made like this:

iron-clad hydra build:item 3077 +item 1057 +item 1031 +580g (total 3300g) stats: 25ad 40armor 40magic resistance 100% base health regen

unique passive Cleave: auto attacks do aoe physical damage equal to (10-50)(10%armor) and magic damage equal to (10-50)(10%magic resistance)

Unique passive Cresent: enhance your next auto to instead do (60)(15%armor)physical damage and (60)(15%magic resistance) magic damage to nearby enemies and nearby allies heal for 20% of the damage done by this effect over 2s (10s cd)

Sancre1 votes

Yes, you're right, less armor and magic res might be in order.

Another quite interesting point that is worth mentioning is that i haven't added ad just because i think that this hydra shouldn't be made of item 3077 , I know that the other 2 are made from it, but Riot has made clear that it doesn't want tanks to have damage since the tank update, so i think that the item 3077 should be left out for a item of this nature, adding instead something like item 1011 , to justify health, armor and magic res, having something like this in the end

item 1011 + item 1057 + item 1031 (or item 2053 to add some health regen, or even item 3076 to add another interesting passive, although this last one could be a bit too overloaded in this item)

In a more lore friendly explanation, this head would be the one that takes the damage in a hydra, the central one that resist for the other heads while they dish out the damage.


About the passive, seems quite interesting, as no other hydra item uses armor and magic res, but still can't really see it as a perfect fit, as that would mean that is an item to do damage, something that Riot don't want on Tanks, but could really work that way too, as it won't add almost any damage, since most tanks have quite low attack speed, and juggernauts usually get health instead of armor and magic res.

The active though, i can't see it, not only since its focused to do damage around an enemy, but if you are going to use it to help fellow frontliners with the heal, it should be able to be triggered at will, like item 3074 's, besides, i still think that this item should give a small damage reduction so tanks aren't melted in seconds like they still do (now less thanks to item 3193 ) or at least a shield based on something like 20% of armor+magic res of the wielder and 10% (so a full tank team can't abuse it that much) of the armors and magic res of the teammates healed by the active ( right now its a bit hard to get 300 armor and res on the same champion without it being helped by passives and that most teammates don't build armor or magic res apart from the tank, the shield would be a bit of a pity until very late game, but it could help to survive a little longer, similar to item 3053 but for tanks)

Healing value could be based on max hp, a percentage of armor and magic res, or value of the damage taken for the 2 seconds that the shield could be up (similar to how tahm kench's passive decay) so it becomes a 2 part item (but i would take one of the first 2, a delayed healing already delayed and depending on the damage taken on that time sounds awful, but had to present that idea too so it could be considered)

M00ndanc31 votes

if you dont want item 3077 it can't be a hydra item since the cleave and cresent are both based on this item (kind of like putting last wisper on an item that doesn't build out of item 3035 ). also cleave is something that is used to help with wave clear as a small amount of aoe damage and trying to change the fact that it does damage defeats its perpose. now if you want health applied then instead why not go with item 3077 +item 3105 +item 1011 . this reduces the amount of armor and mr but gives health instead. As for making tanks not do damage, you cant make a item thats like a hydra that gives aoe wave clear without adding damage because of its base components. with the item you have in mind i would suggest changing the item and make it like this:

name:(Vangaurds Cape) build:item 3076 +item 3211 +500g (total of 2600g) stats: 300hp 40mr 40armor unique passive:thorns: upon being hit by an auto attack, deal 20 +(5%armor)(5%magic resistance) and apply grievious wounds. Unique passive: Vangaurds protection: upon taking damge release a pulse that gives you and nearby allies 200% base health regen for 5s. this has a 3s cooldown. if a pulse hits someone who is already under the affects of Vangaurds protection the duration is reset and the health regen is increased to 250% this can stack up to 5 times for a total of 400% after 15s if 5 pulses consecutively hit a allied champion

Sancre1 votes

Looking it that way, you are right on the Tiamat, the only way for it to not use Tiamat was if Riot also created a side item, but lets not create a side item to make another side item and just stick to the Tiamat.

If the passive and active scales with armor, it would be better for the item to build something like this item 3077 item 1028 item 1057 item 1031 , as if it gave way more hp than armor/mr it would be a boring item 3748 once damage focused.

_1200+800+720+400+180 for a total of 3300 gold for a quite complete item that seems a bit like the defensive trinity force, as if gives a bit of everything that a tank needs. _

the passive should stay as you described it then, with the damage based on armor/magic res. The active is where it can change, as this one isn't tied with any other past item, and I would add the shield part i stated last time, so tanks could get a armor/magic res item 3053


The item you describes sounds quite good actually, although it seems to me that would only be useful for juggernauts, rammus or shen (Taunt users), as no one would hit a tank that had those unless it was 100% mandatory, and as the vanguard passive doesn't have any scaling, it can be used by almost anyone. The item sounds cool, but it sets a big red "DO NOT TOUCH" button on the champion wearing it, thats why i presented the bramble vest as a possibility, but not paired with a healing aoe passive, it would be just far too punishing (for a second I could visualize this being abused by Ezreal, like almost any item)

M00ndanc31 votes

as for your item first item suggestion tiamat +health/armor/mr it seeams like a good idea and perhaps changing the item 1057 anditem 1031 into a item 3105 so that it can have a passive shield in a simular way toitem 3190

and for the second thing maybe instead of the healing increasing based on how many pulses that hit an ally maybe it can heal for a flat 20-100(based on lvl) (10%-50%mr)(10%-50%armor) over 5s and if an ally is hit by multiple waves it heals them for what was left of the first wave and then starts the heal over 5s over again that way early game it gives a weak but constant heal and late game if you go full tank it works better

finally as for the who if you were to have this its like a big red "DO NOT TOUCH" button. thats how all tanks are if youve noticed thing likeitem 3076 item 3082 passives are what you are discribing yet people still hit them simply because they are there and thats whose available to hit. If you could pick every team fight who you wanted to hit every one would just hit the carry and thats why tanks exsist is to get in the way of that, so giving this item to champs like Alistar Braum Malphite Galio there still going to get hit but now the enemy is punished and allies are rewarded for following up on your engages hence the vangaurd name. Also tanks fall into two categories Vangaurds, who initiate and do cc inorder to disrupt the teams and wardens, who defend and react to the enemies onslaught. in both of these cases the champion would get hit doing there job whether or not the enemy wants to hit them

Sancre1 votes

adding item 3105 is a good idea for the thematic shield later on, but even with that, it would probably be better to still up the armor and magic res of the final item to 40 with gold, as it is the Ironclad Hydra, would be strange if it didn't had at least decent armor and magic res


About the Vanguard, it seems more balanced that way, with armor and magic res scalings, the way it was before it was a even bigger danger to hit them because they could be some noticeable abusers of flat healing on area and thorns passive (Try to get down a Darius or Illaoi that not only is decimating your team, but also healing itself, healing his teammates with flat values everytime you hit it and even then is appliying grievous wounds everywhere)

With that passive though, that item would be more suited for Wardens that Vanguards i think. Alistar and Malphite usually go in so fast that their teammates usually have problems to follow them up right away, so the area healing wouldn't do anything if you are surrounded by the enemy team (malphite even reduces enemy attack speed, so less synergy with this item), Galio as both a taunt user and a "short ranged" vanguard in regards to the jumps he can do might benefit the most of this, as he can get to save his teammates with e or r and then taunt, managing to get the most of this item, more or less as Braum , but he doesn't have to go knee deep into the enemy team to do his job, so migth be one of the greatest users.

The Ironclad Hydra would work good with both Vanguards and Wardens as (as we have been talking it until now) it would give a small area damage, a on demand shield and an area heal for when your team finally manages to reach after your initiation

I do think that a very good combo for any tank would be Ironclad Hydra + item 3193 + item 3800

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