Give as you take, and take as you give

y0r1ck·Mar 28, 2018·1 votes·494 views

If someone's an asshole, they should be able to take what they give so it's ok to be an asshole to an asshole.

It's not ok to be an asshole to an innocent.

This is how it should be.

26 Comments

ModThe DjinnMar 28, 20189 votes

And in a game with all honorable assholes who are all willing to give and take the same thing, no one reports anyone and everyone's great.

It's not okay to abuse someone who doesn't want to be abused, or to force innocent players to sit and watch your abuse. If everyone in a game is on the same page and they want to chant insults at each other and all agree it's in good fun? Sure. Doesn't hurt me one bit.

The moment one player who doesn't want that environment is in the picture, however, the Summoner's Code comes into effect, and those assholes need to back down.

y0r1ckMar 28, 20181 votes

Those people can mute, if they're getting offended by insults not aimed at them.

ModThe DjinnMar 28, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Those people can mute, if they're getting offended by insults not aimed at them.

They can, yes, but asking other players to cut off communication so you can violate the rules you agreed to as part of joining the League community is not something that's going to be considered the standard.

y0r1ckMar 28, 20182 votes

I know. I'm just saying it should be the standard.

And just because we agreed to rules, doesn't mean the rules are good.

ModThe DjinnMar 28, 20184 votes

{quoted}I know. I'm just saying it should be the standard.

And just because we agreed to rules, doesn't mean the rules are good.

And you're entitled to that opinion but, frankly, it's not changing. Riot has been very vocal about their commitment to not forcing someone offended by abusive behavior to seek refuge, but rather to put the onus on the people responsible for the offending behavior to cease it.

They're not changing that.

ModPeriscopeMar 28, 20181 votes

You know there's other people out there right? They don't all think like you. And they're not always going to mute you. This let flame be flame only detracts from making constructive calls in game.

ChermorgMar 28, 20186 votes

When you are an asshole to an asshole, you are exposing 3 innocents to your assholery.

This does not even begin to address the fact that retaliation, or "fighting fire with fire", is never a good option unless your life is in danger.

Imperial PandaaMar 28, 20183 votes

I took the post more as;

If all assholes followed this logic, no one would ever actually be an asshole in game. The reason being everyone is innocent until they are an asshole and you aren't supposed to be an asshole to an innocent. So if all are innocent, no one can be an asshole because no one knows who the asshole is.

y0r1ckMar 28, 20181 votes

Well. Fighting fire with fire is a real thing. Fire fighters do it sometimes with controlled fires to prevent fires from spreading.

And those other 3 can mute if they don't find trash talk entertaining?

ChermorgMar 28, 20187 votes

Those firefighters aren't fighting fire with fire - they're using fire as a tool to prevent the fire from reaching another place. "Fighting fire with fire" is akin to if a firefighter took a flamethrower and tried to put out a fire by shooting the flamethrower at it.

Players should not have to mute abusive, harassing, toxic communication. It should simply not be done in the first place, save for premades of 5 who are free to do whatever they're okay with. No matter how many people you have "on your side" when you are toxic, the strangers' right to an enjoyable game experience will always trump your "right" to be toxic.

y0r1ckMar 28, 20181 votes

Lol that's also a thing, use up all the fuel and the fire goes out. I'm just talking about the analogy right now, not about the original topic. I get that's an analogy and I'm not so idiotic as to ignore your point. I'm just saying fighting fire with fire is possible.

AraMoOseMar 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Lol that's also a thing, use up all the fuel and the fire goes out. I'm just talking about the analogy right now, not about the original topic. I get that's an analogy and I'm not so idiotic as to ignore your point. I'm just saying fighting fire with fire is possible.

but... You ARE ignoring his point...

y0r1ckMar 28, 20181 votes

I read it and posted to acknowledge that I saw the post. Then I came back to it later when I had a bit more time. Chill...

Umbral RegentMar 28, 20181 votes

But how long would it take for all that fuel to be burnt up? Since it's pretty much entirely just typing up a storm to rage at each other, there's little expense of energy, and people could go on for hours on end in an argument.

And in all that time, they're fighting while trying to play a skill-intensive game.

Rather than have two flamers duke it out until both of them get tired of it (they probably won't), they should just stop flaming and focus on the game that they signed up to play.

y0r1ckMar 28, 20181 votes

Like I said, I'm just saying fighting fire with fire is possible and I'm not referring to his point when I say that.

ModPeriscopeMar 28, 20181 votes

So how do we remove the fuel? By permabanning...

y0r1ckMar 28, 20181 votes

That depends on if you believe toxic behavior comes from toxic people or toxic conditions.

ModPeriscopeMar 29, 20181 votes

Conditions will always be there, otherwise, both teams would win. There’s always going to be someone who doesn’t play well in a game.

y0r1ckMar 28, 20183 votes

See, I think there's a difference between abusive and toxic harassment and just being an asshole. You seem to equate the two and that's an inconsolable difference in our views, so we'll never see eye to eye.

And lol assholery. What a funny word

ChermorgMar 29, 20184 votes

I'm unable to remember if this is a quote or if I just heard it from somewhere, but:

It is unimportant whether we eventually agree or not. It is only important that we leave understanding each others' view and respecting the right to disagree.

Or, this one being an actual quote,

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - S.G. Tallentyre

Replace say with opine/think and that quote still holds true.

y0r1ckMar 29, 20181 votes

Always the goal

HalcyonDwellerMar 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Well. Fighting fire with fire is a real thing. Fire fighters do it sometimes with controlled fires to prevent fires from spreading.

Don't play with semantics. Fighting back against bullies is an archaic philosophy that only works when physical violence is a risk. As shown in Ender's Game, being sufficiently dangerous is enough to discourage most future attempts at bullying.

But none of that shit works with psychological bullying and verbal harassment. The best way to deal with the kind of bullying seen in League is to not reward it with the attention it seeks.

And those other 3 can mute if they don't find trash talk entertaining?

By that point the damage is done. You already exposed them to whatever shit you decided to say. Stop blaming the victims, it's your responsibility to control your behavior, not their responsibility to psychically detect when you're about to do something and mute you before it happens.

y0r1ckMar 28, 20181 votes

Read your own post. Looks to me like you're saying you can only control your own behavior, and the best way to stop bullies online is to not reward them.

So isn't getting offended rewarding an asshole? Sure, not responding is one way not to reward an asshole. But fighting back is another.

So someone is an asshole to you. You can cry. You can be an asshole back. Or you can mute.

Seems to me, the best thing to do if someone's really being a dick beyond trash talk, is just let that person know their opinion is worth less than a puddle of horse piss and how apathetic you are to their presence.

If it's just trash talk about the game, either get over it or talk trash back.

And I wasn't playing with semantics lol. Read that post of mine and you'll see I didn't argue for or against anything, just pointed out fighting fire with fire is a thing.

HalcyonDwellerMar 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Read your own post. Looks to me like you're saying you can only control your own behavior, and the best way to stop bullies online is to not reward them.

Yeah, that's actually exactly what I'm saying. It's how behavior works. People who troll or harass you in-game are doing it because they want a reaction. If you don't oblige then you're hurting them far worse than you could by saying something about how worthless their opinion is to you.

So isn't getting offended rewarding an asshole? Sure, not responding is one way not to reward an asshole. But fighting back is another.

Fighting back = attention... which equates to rewarding them.

So someone is an asshole to you. You can cry. You can be an asshole back. Or you can mute.

Seems to me, the best thing to do if someone's really being a dick beyond trash talk, is just let that person know their opinion is worth less than a puddle of horse piss and how apathetic you are to their presence.

If you were actually apathetic then you wouldn't bother with a response. In responding to them you betray your own purpose already.

If it's just trash talk about the game, either get over it or talk trash back.

And I wasn't playing with semantics lol. Read that post of mine and you'll see I didn't argue for or against anything, just pointed out fighting fire with fire is a thing.

You used the linguistics to incorrectly support your argument.
Your understanding of how Firefighters acutally use fire was flawed.

NegativityMar 28, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Well. Fighting fire with fire is a real thing. Fire fighters do it sometimes with controlled fires to prevent fires from spreading.

And those other 3 can mute if they don't find trash talk entertaining?

Or I can report I and see you cry on the forum

OnecimusMar 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

When you are an asshole to an asshole, you are exposing 3 innocents to your assholery.

This does not even begin to address the fact that retaliation, or "fighting fire with fire", is never a good option unless your life is in danger.

Upvote for inventing the word "assholery". #Shakespearean