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One of the main reason why bronze is the worst elo.

NuggeTech··6 votes·1,986 views

Leagues BS system forces a 50% winrate. That means as soon as I reach win rate that is more than 50% I will start getting paired against players who are infinitely better than me or I am forced to team up with players who have like 40% winrate. Then again I don;t care about this. It will help me improve in the long run.

What I do hate, is boosting and smurfing. Many, many players try to do the bronze to diamond challenge. What they do is throw away their placements and try to get placed in bronze. A famous LoL youtber Phylol did this. Getting placed in Silver and then trying to reach Diamond. He isn't the only one. There are many streamers out there who do this. And I have to experience this BS many times in my matches. How do I know this? It's because the plays they make is not something a bronze or even a silver can do.

http://imgur.com/8pybPiH

Here is a clear proof. The assh**le even proudly claimed that he was in plat and was laughing about it. How am I, B4 support ,supposed to win in this case? Let's not forget about the toxicity shall we? Everyone is so angry and just insulting everyone.It ruins the entire match for me as well as my day.

Reporting never works. It only has when it has been publicly stated scuh as the Tyler1 fiasco. I doubt this guys will get banned. Infact I reported a booster, to the support team. When I played against him, he had 100% on RIVEN.No action has taken place and I bet he is going to enjoy his end of the season rewards and I won't because I have better morals than him.

50 Comments

archerno15 votes

League system doesnt force 50% winrate. Winrate starts balancing around 50% once u reach your skill level. When i played on smurf in silver i had 80% winrate which slowly went to 59% once i reached my main ELO. You cant climb because you are rifht where u belong

That screenshot is clear proof why u cant climb. Look at your build

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

If you can correctly explain a PID loop, then I'll believe you. And then maybe you'll believe OP.

archerno17 votes

{quoted}

If you can correctly explain a PID loop, then I'll believe you. And then maybe you'll believe OP.

I have no idea what PID loop even is...

And there is nothing to believe OP. He is completely wrong.

-He claims report system never works, yet if u browse forums you will see tons of people whining how they got banned -He claims he cant climb because of smurfs and stuff, but look at his game, does he deserve to climb?:

He is playing Lux support

He isnt building support items

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/byNkIiVB-if-you-are-a-support-please-build-support-items?comment=00000000

Look at this thread HE opened 2 months ago. HE himself said that MAGE supports SHOULD build support items. Yet look at him, he didnt even upgrade gold generating item. He rushed Morellonomicon. And this isnt first time. He has tons of games in his match history without Support items on support. He barely even uses his trinket

Point is. He plays like a Bronze, he is in Bronze, he deserves to be in Bronze. System is fine.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

We can discredit him all day. He's clearly at a learning pace.

A PID loop is a part of the algorithm that I'm assuming Riot's MMR system uses.

A PID loop is, in a simple sense, a calculative measure based on a set distance from a perceived goal to determine "correction" and then applying mathematical formulas to the "correction" and then receiving an output. Afterwards, that output is then used as our input and the process is done again, hence the loop.

Slightly more simple, if you're on a winning streak, the level of difficulty to win games gets harder and harder until you get to about 50% winrate. So if you're 80% WR in silver, you move into high gold, you're at 60%, and at low gold you're at about 50%, then you'll stay at low gold pretty much.

I believe 50% to be the value that the PID Loop is set to, just by observation and no real official source.

My personal feelings towards the algorithm is that it's unfair since, in order to get to and through promos, you'd have to be on a winning streak. But if you're on a winning streak, you might also be above 50% winrate, thereby increasing the difficulty of the game. Sounds reasonable in practice, but what it ultimately does is give a person in promos really bad teammates on purpose against really good players that are several ranks ahead of them.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

easiest way to break the loop - go on a losing streak and then once you get about 200 games lost then you can skyrocket up. it takes roughly 10 games to get enough lp to reach and surpass promos. granting you immunity to the loop. of course this only works on new accounts. older accounts would have to lose several thousands of games.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

That wouldn't be breaking the loop, that would be gaming it. I think Riot has measures already in place to disrupt that process though.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

they monitor losing streaks and adjust accordingly. that's about it.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

This is all speculative. We don't know for sure about even the existence of a PID loop.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

the PID loop is speculative, but they use a similar system. there was a post about it back when they did the rework for ranked.

Siegfriedx12 votes

Your posts are very misleading and make it look like that itemization define your elo.

Itemization have almost no effect on lower elo when you compare it to how you play. The same thing is right about your champion pick and if you are playing duo or not.

If you play good enough you will eventually climb.

I did the exact same build playing xerath support and I got this season from unranked to diamond in 80 wins. Are you going to say I'm bronze?

Instead of looking a random aspect that you disagree to justify his elo ( what is something that need at least 30 other variables to define), give some constructive look about how he plays.

One of the most present problems of league players is that they want to judge fast to look right to other people that also judge fast, instead of taking time and being correct but looking wrong to people that are wrong.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

Your posts are very misleading and make it look like that itemization define your elo.

Itemization have almost no effect on lower elo when you compare it to how you play. The same thing is right about your champion pick and if you are playing duo or not.

You you play good enough you eventually climb.

I did the exact same build playing xerath support and I got this season from unranked to diamond in 80 wins. Are you going to say I'm bronze?

Instead of looking a random aspect that you disagree to justify his elo ( what is something that need at least 30 other variables to define), give some constructive look about how he plays.

One of the most present problems of league players is that they want to judge fast to look right to other people that also judge fast, instead of taking time and being correct but looking wrong to people that are wrong.

Checked your match history. You did upgrade your gold generating item early to earn more gold and in most of your Xerath games you built Sightstone. And you only played 33 games. You climbed with Soraka mostly and you built support every time. You won around 20 Xerath games and in most of wins you had Sightstone and locket(or components for locket)

Siegfriedx13 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8OAzeAgY-this-season-how-many-victories-took-you-to-get-diamond

As you can see in this post I played mostly with xerath soraka and leona to climb. Your argument, by what i could see, is that if a player don't build support items or build outside the meta that this player is without a doubt deserving to be bronze.

You claim to have checked my match history and i believe you, but let's highlight some of the games that you overlooked:

http://imgur.com/Wi4mrOw

I don't see even a sight stone here, and that was in plat already[i think].

http://imgur.com/sX6efFT

Where is the upgrade of the support item?

http://imgur.com/OZXqteM

I don't see a solari in it.

http://imgur.com/Q4EOb1L

Neither in this game i see a solari in it.

http://imgur.com/gPIxiUp

Same example.

I think that that if the argument you were using was correct i'm suppose to be bronze. I'm not saying that there is no way to impact a game based on your itemization, but having tons of others skills and not doing wrong rotations and fighting decisions impact enough to say that items are not a bottom line to how you define ones elo.

Of course you are going to see that people with high elo they itemize better but the logic is that the higher you get more things you learn, and not that those particular items are the reason they are high elo.

Do you know what difference makes to me to invest and build a redemption at low elo to save a bronze 5 adc? Almost 0. I will save the adc/jungler so he will jump again and kill himself in the end and i will see the mid laner using ghost to escape a gank just to walk back and die anyway.

As another example, Bronze players making qss is as good as a mana potion to vlad most of the times. They will die anyway by no kiting properly and many other simple things they just didn't learn yet. How is saying to them: "build that and you are suppose to get out of bronze" by any chance be correct?

Itemization sure have a space to help you winning matches but in low elo it's not what will rule all situations if you are literally giving up your advantages by so many other mistakes over and over. Also building support items every game is not the same as playing well.

To prove that to you here is a match of Ashe vs Ashe of me vs another guy how is a silver player with skills around bronze 1/ silver 5:

The challenge was simple: 1v1 i would only be able to finish a boot and BoTRK. After that i would only buy potions and the game would end at the 25 minutes mark.

The guy who would be against could build anything he wanted and have as many items as he want. In the other hand i had to play the entire match with only BOTRK boots and potions.

It was in howling abyss and we suppose to stop playing at the 25 minute mark.

What do you expect to see in the stats of this game? Probably on your logic an almost even match until we both get the same amount of gold and then a complete stomp from the enemy player after he buy the very first item beyond the gold limit i have. Of course, if im restricted to have only bortk as soon as he have more gold equivalent than that i'm suppose to lose right?

Well that was my entire build the entire game: http://imgur.com/42FpjiY

That was his build the entire game: http://imgur.com/BDC4FIs

That's how he ended in the entire game: http://imgur.com/ci1MJ3Z

That's the match breakdown [i was the blue one]: https://imgur.com/a/De3qK

Those are my kills over comparing to his over time: https://imgur.com/a/GmjXc

As you can see, even having 1, 2 or 3 items ahead of me i was completely stomping him until the 22 minute mark just based on skill and knowledge i had about the game.

What good a kill do to a bronze/silver player? Give him gold. What good gold do to a bronze/silver player? Give him items. What good an item do to a bronze/silver player? Give him stats. What good stats do to a bronze/silver player? Nothing without the right skill to use it.

As it's demonstrated by my images, skill can count more than an IE+Runaan+Deathdance in a mirror match. Trying to say to people that they are in their elo because of items is plain wrong and misleading.

Hope you can see i'm not trying to say you are a misleading person, but the whole argument make no sense to me in first place.

Edit: game is here http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2525784608/233222620?tab=overview&participant=1

MBausK2 votes

Why should smurfing be reportable? I do that myself, and yes, even in bronze, just for fun. Weird thing is, you do not buy a sightstone as a support and cry about the jungler carrying a game? Get your shit done first, complain about smurfers after that.

NuggeTech2 votes

If you smurf so that you can destroy low lvl players, then you are wrong. I don't understand what fun is there in doing so. If you wanted to learn a new role I guess that is acceptable. But smurfinh because it's fun to beat low lvl players then you should get your shit together

verysalt1 votes

{quoted}

If you smurf so that you can destroy low lvl players, then you are wrong. I don't understand what fun is there in doing so. If you wanted to learn a new role I guess that is acceptable. But smurfinh because it's fun to beat low lvl players then you should get your shit together

And how I am support to climb new account without smurfing ?

Pie Cubed2 votes

If you're in Bronze you probably belong there. I recommend you don't get better if you don't want to deal with the shit hole that is Silver. It's even more hellish to climb out of...

Shifue Draven1 votes

Right there with you man right now on an endless losing streak cause the lol gods decided to let me get the most toxic players in the game that are fighting each other more then the enemy plus feeding.

NuggeTech1 votes

I don't know why everyone is so angry all the time. As soon as I get into champ select people are cursing each other and ordering what to go or not to go. Supports and jg have it the worst. Top will say us to go tank when they can easily do the same and if you don't they will hold you hostage. I'm sure same happens on the other team. Many players are trying out new champs in ranked. Like Udyr, Vayne top, Riven, draven etc

archerno11 votes

Btw that Lee isnt a plat smurf. He is lying. Look how many trash games he has, his CS is bad

NuggeTech1 votes

Wait a minute. How did you look him up? I removed out his name.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

Wait a minute. How did you look him up? I removed out his name.

I opened your match history ...

NuggeTech1 votes

Oh

Inting Pillow1 votes

You are playing Lux support, I can't really trust you here. I climbed out of Bronze so easily, because I followed the meta and didn't build like an idiot, I'd suggest you follow my example

NuggeTech2 votes

I don't know man. I have asked for a lot of tips and people here say don't follow the meta in bronze and picks support that can carry like Brand, Lux or Zyra.

Inting Pillow1 votes

Really don't play support is the best advice I have. Play Blitz or Thresh if you wanna support because Bronze teams often lack tanks. You can't play any tank, ones that set up kills for the team are the best to play. if your team has a tank jungler and toplaner, consider playing a carry support.

NuggeTech1 votes

I prefer it playing tanks in any game as I prefer to be in the back line supporting my team or if I play an aggressive champ trying to kill the squishes. Blitz is banned most of the time and I don't like thresh. His play style does not suit me.

Also, people say that Lux and Malz are carry support is it true? I try to play Janna but my ADC will say to go someone else

archerno12 votes

{quoted}

I prefer it playing tanks in any game as I prefer to be in the back line supporting my team or if I play an aggressive champ trying to kill the squishes. Blitz is banned most of the time and I don't like thresh. His play style does not suit me.

Also, people say that Lux and Malz are carry support is it true? I try to play Janna but my ADC will say to go someone else

Noone ever said Lux is carry support. Lux isnt support at all. Malzahar is good support due to his Voidlings early game damage. Lux has nothing to help her support in lane. She is highly item dependant and relies on staying behind dealing damage.

Inting Pillow1 votes

No, they changed Malz, nerfed his supporting into the ground but made him a midlaner again. Used to be one of the best supports tho. But you said something correct here:

Noone ever said Lux is carry support. Lux isnt support at all.

Inting Pillow1 votes

Gotta pick the right support for the champ, if they are really offensive and have to fight in lane no Janna.

archerno11 votes

{quoted}

Gotta pick the right support for the champ, if they are really offensive and have to fight in lane no Janna.

My bae Morgana is always a good choice.

Inting Pillow1 votes

That's true

KaRniVooL131 votes

Lux Support has a win rate 44.30% for Platinum+ players whilst the very best Lux's are earning a win rate of 56.64% with the average rank of these top players being in Diamond IV.

LoLalytics ranks Lux at 40 amongst Support champions earning a tier grade of Bronze.

This ranking takes into account the win rate of Platinum+ players, the pick/ban influence of Lux, the win rate and average rank of the best Lux players.

http://lolalytics.com/champion/Lux/Support/

this is just showing LUX ISNT A GOOD CHOICE FOR SUPPORT .

as a support main- the fact that you didnt get a SS bugs the hell out of me. it would nearly tilt me in game as an adc. vision/information wins games.

meta is meta for a reason they are the strongest champs in their respective roles in the game at the time... by playing subpar champs when you yourself arent great on that subpar champ you are just hurting yourself.

you need to improve as a player stop blaming the game/elo/mmr/match making / team mates/ trolls/smurfs/afks/

if you become fundamentally sound as a player with enough games you will climb to the skill level you are suppose to be at... you are in bronze cuz that is where your skill puts you. which means you have every aspect of this game to improve on.

there is a reason why players have multiple of accounts in diamond + because they learn the fundamentals and are just better at the game via mechanics, decision making , micro and marco aspects of the game. all the things you are blaming in the post effects them too and at all elos but people rise above it cuz over the course of a season it averages out and all have to deal with it...

with out seeing your game play i dont know each what you do well and dont... so to tell you how to improve would be a shot in the dark... but based on this screen shot champ/team comp/ items etc i would say i have no clue what nasus is doing(that fuking build makes me wanna kms) ... you picked lux vs a team that has lee/leona (dive happy/hard engage) and the fact you cant peel/ protect the adc the fact you have zero wards vs a jungle who is a great ganker and an early ganker. as lux how do you feel you are going to keep leona off of an ADC ? you could try to 'carry " and do damage but at what expense

everything thing you do in league has a pro and con... understanding this and when and where to exploit things to your advantage is how you win games.

league isnt COD or Mortal Combat, its an OBJECTIVE based game... you win by obtaining more objectives (the nexus ) kills just allow you to take advantage of someone not being able to defend as you take an objective strengthening your team

think of league in terms of chess

Mig891 votes

I easily climbed to gold playing moastly brand and zyra. Theyre the best two support in low elo imo because your terrible (most of the time) adc isnt gonna do much anyway

Lauchmelder1 votes

You can climb out of Bronze with AP Gnar jungle...

Mig891 votes

Sadly this is true lmao but KaRniVooL13 is completely correct about vision winning games. A support not building sightstone and trying to win in league of legends is like an army having scouts that dont leave the main force. Sure, theyre there for extra firepower when the attack comes but nobody wants to get blindsided and rely on a weaker than regular unit over knowing the enemy was on its way 5 minutes ago.

hi ìm groot1 votes

Smurfing isnt reportable. And if someone is smurfing from high elo in bronze, they dont stay bronze very long. That plus the fact that the higher elos that people worry about smurfing make up such a low percentage of the player base means the "smurf" problem will have a very negligible impact on low elo games. However if there's someone who pops off every game but ints in yours, that is worth the report because there are some who want to pub stomp people in some games but dont want to move up in elo so they'll throw others.

Kei1431 votes

they claim to be in plat, but most the time, they are lying. Just a silver player at max.

Zelorxon1 votes

Uhm sir, despite the fact that i do not decline nor agree with what you said, for the informations you might have and gave with your complaint are pretty lackluster, i do see however, that you were playing lux support, with the 30 bucks skin and without an essential item for the team and to the support in first place, which is the sightstone. I'm afraid i have to inform you that YOU, sir, are part of what's wrong with this game and makes it shitty as it can be.

I wish you a good one.

NuggeTech1 votes

This isn't the first match that I have played against players like this XD. Yes, yes I know I should've for a sight stone in fact that's the first item I try to get. But where can i ward if My team is down 5-0 before 7 min. If mean I can ward my base buts what's the point then

archerno13 votes

{quoted}

This isn't the first match that I have played against players like this XD. Yes, yes I know I should've for a sight stone in fact that's the first item I try to get. But where can i ward if My team is down 5-0 before 7 min. If mean I can ward my base buts what's the point then

Warding is actually key to comebacks. Superior vision control helps you catch out people and shutting them down.

GreatWhiteNorth2 votes

{quoted}

Uhm sir, despite the fact that i do not decline nor agree with what you said, for the informations you might have and gave with your complaint are pretty lackluster, i do see however, that you were playing lux support, with the 30 bucks skin and without an essential item for the team and to the support in first place, which is the sightstone. I'm afraid i have to inform you that YOU, sir, are part of what's wrong with this game and makes it shitty as it can be.

I wish you a good one.

Except that nobody in bronze cares if their support buys a sightstone.

SEKAI1 votes

I do think many of the low elo matchmaking problem is caused by smurfs, though. They do mess up a lot of matches solely because of their desire to get views on videos. I mean, someone's gotta eat with dat ad revenue I suppose, but still.

SciFi Scrivener1 votes

Smurfing in ranked games should be stopped, I just have no idea how riot could do it. Ranked games are supposed to be about players of similar skill level competing on a level playing field. There is nothing about smurfing that fits that description.

I mean, if you're so tilted at getting beat at the level you are supposed to be playing at that you make a new account so you can play against lesser skilled players in order to feel good about yourself, do it in norms. Don't ruin ranked for other players.

This Is Your Dad2 votes

Yes and no. Smurfing to get an account to a high elo is fine if they lost an old one or if they just want to challenge themselves. But when they start to troll like some of these smurfs to stay low elo and stomp it becomes an abuse of the account and is reportable, but often not punished. I saw a few guys with 300 wins 0 losses one one champ and 299 losses 0 wins on another on op.gg. Bronze 5

Ward Baron1 votes

{quoted}

Leagues BS system forces a 50% winrate. That means as soon as I reach win rate that is more than 50% I will start getting paired against players who are infinitely better than me or I am forced to team up with players who have like 40% winrate. Then again I don;t care about this. It will help me improve in the long run.

What I do hate, is boosting and smurfing. Many, many players try to do the bronze to diamond challenge. What they do is throw away their placements and try to get placed in bronze. A famous LoL youtber Phylol did this. Getting placed in Silver and then trying to reach Diamond. He isn't the only one. There are many streamers out there who do this. And I have to experience this BS many times in my matches. How do I know this? It's because the plays they make is not something a bronze or even a silver can do.

http://imgur.com/8pybPiH

Here is a clear proof. The assh**le even proudly claimed that he was in plat and was laughing about it. How am I, B4 support ,supposed to win in this case? Let's not forget about the toxicity shall we? Everyone is so angry and just insulting everyone.It ruins the entire match for me as well as my day.

Reporting never works. It only has when it has been publicly stated scuh as the Tyler1 fiasco. I doubt this guys will get banned. Infact I reported a booster, to the support team. When I played against him, he had 100% on RIVEN.No action has taken place and I bet he is going to enjoy his end of the season rewards and I won't because I have better morals than him.

You are right, the worse your MMR is only gets harder to win your games. Lol Add on to the poor LP gains vs loss you need like a 75% winrate to climb and at a snails pace mind you. You can't close a game on your own, it's legit cancer. Riot knows it's nonsense, Riot knows all the smurfing and smurfing duo queuing going on. They don't care, buy some new skins and new champs. Just cross your fingers and Tryndamere energizer bunny the best you can.

Also isn't it funny how anyone can dumpster an account into bronze to ruin games for low Elo players but you aren't allowed to just start in challenger and ruin those games until Riot sorts it out. They always say the system will sort them out, sure but it takes a long time, let us start at the top and sort it out and watch how challenger players start screaming because then their games will feel just like bronze games are.

Telephone Booth1 votes

It makes sense. They pair you with similarly skilled opponents and allies, then when you start winning too much, they put you against better opponents to see if you are in the wrong bracket. If you won against better players, you would move up and not be in bronze. But what happens when they match you against higher ELO? You lose. So you stay in your comfort zone. Would you rather they just always place you in games that you have the best chance of winning? Why you? Why do you deserve to be matched against players you'll win against all the time? Then those people you always win against, would be the ones making this post. You see? You're thinking of yourself like you're special and you deserve to be higher ranked. Maybe you are where you belong. I know you understand this, as you said it's not the problem you're having, I just wanted to state that as a general thought for people who bitch about Riot "forcing" their 50% win rate.

As for boosters, ya that sucks. Meh. I rarely run into that so I guess that's just shitty luck.

positive pIayer1 votes

bronze is the worst elo because brown is an ugly color

EL HAMSTERO1 votes

smurfs do make it tougher to climb but it can be done if you deserve it.

also other posters are correct, you will win around 50% but only when you are at the correct mmr. if you put a gold rank player in bronze they are going to win much higher than 50% until they get near their correct mmr.

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