How do I deal with ADCs as a mage?

NuggeTech·Dec 10, 2017·23 votes·1,987 views

I very rarely play AD champs. In fact all the champs that have reached lvl 5 on my account are mages with the exception of MF. Yet no matter how bad or good I play, and no matter what I try, I always lose to them. Since tank is becoming meta it is already hard to kill them and I target the squishy targets.

Supports, ADCS, and my mid-laner are the two options I have. I can take care of the support and try my best to not lose my lane. But as soon as an ADC say a Vayne pops up no matter what, I will lose to them. Their dmg is way too high and their items make sure they always survive fights. And in a game where my mid laner is AD and the jg is twitch, its a lost game for me.

I really don't know how should I build in this scenario. Please help me out guys

58 Comments

DisembarkDec 10, 201722 votes

Pro-tip: play Vayne or other ADCs that you think are "op", you will probably see their weaknesses first hand when you get abused on them - then you will know how to play against them. Here are my tips from experience

Zhonyas, honestly tabis doesn't matter because it's better if you're able to 1-shot them with sorcs
You shouldn't find yourself in a situation where Vayne can 1v1 you. Literally you should NEVER ever be in a position where Vayne can safely 1v1 you. That means in a teamfight don't "run for your life" the second Vayne tries to go for you, kite into your tanks and she will eat CC and she will get 1-shot.

Thats where Zhonyas is super important - if Vayne wants to try and assassinate you in the backline - she will HAVE TO put herself in a very dangerous position and if you pop zhonyas, she now finds herself completely boned (cause she used her single target DPS on you - and can't kill you anymore 100% boned).

SAVE FOR CC FOR HER. Looking at your previous game Vayne did not buy QSS. The second she gets CC'd she is 100% BONED. Don't show out your Q willy-nilly, the cooldown is long enough for her to kill you. (As lux), Save your Q for when she pops out of stealth. Trust me, you will 1-shot her long before she can kill you if you hit her with Q + E + ult no matter how fed she is.
twitch jungle This is actually up to your jungler to abuse. All you can do is play pretty far back and not take bad trades (aka stay healthy).

Twitch has freaking completely shit ganks - his only benefit is "suprising you". If you are FULL health, not pushed up further than 1/2 lane, then you can literally just walk out of his gank.

ALSO - be very wary if your enemy goes into you "randomly", assume twitch is coming if you don't see him on the map. Don't be like "oh this guy is so stupid I win this trade". No. You're probably going to die.

NuggeTechDec 10, 20178 votes

Ah I don't think that Vayne is OP or anything like that. It's just that they have too many get out of jail cards.

Not only are they the only duo lane, the bot turret is the most valuable one as it is near to the dragon pit. Due to this, they have the jg and support to take care of them. And if the adc gets a double kill before 5 min by chance, it ends up in their favor. I think the items are way too strong in case of ADCs and cheaper. Rabodan is one of the strongest APC items and it costs way too much

Alos, mage mid-laners have no choice but to go AP while ADCs have many options

DisembarkDec 10, 20175 votes

Don't build rabadon unless 1) enemy is super squishy or 2) you're snowballing hard. IMO rabadons is a bit too expensive - but its important not to get hung up on Rabadons. You don't NEED rabadons - in this meta you'll do PLENTY of damage to 1-shot the shit out of people without it.

Well imagine this, Vayne has a "get out of jail free card" in a sense with her tumble - but remember, she also has effectively HALF of Lux's range. This means that she should HAVE TO use her tumble aggressively to get near you - AKA putting it on a 2sec+ cd where she's immobile and within 500 range of your team. In a teamfight she can only condemn 1 person. Who is she gonna condemn? Your ADC so they can't DPS her? Your tank so they can't CC her? She has no good options and any option leads to death.

Also imagine you hold onto E for her, she tumbles forward (cuz she has to) and the second she pops out of stealth you hit her with an E + auto + E-recast while auto in the air. Easily takes off 2/3 of her health late game. She hits you 2 times in that process (maybe chunks you for 2/3, lets say even through shield). Press Zhonyas. What can Vayne do now? She's 1/3 health, no tumble for 1 second, and she has no shiv proc, and no silver bolts stacks on anyone targetable. She's fucked.

Remember, you CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT find yourself in a 1v1 situation against her. It's like finding yourself in a 1v1 situation against Master Yi. It doesn't matter if you're behind 2 towers, his ass WILL run you down and 2-shot you.

FertsaDec 10, 20172 votes

Don't build rabadon unless 1) enemy is super squishy or 2) you're snowballing hard.

you are veigar and not getting completely stomped

wildfox99Dec 10, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Pro-tip: play Vayne or other ADCs that you think are "op", you will probably see their weaknesses first hand when you get abused on them - then you will know how to play against them. Here are my tips from experience

Zhonyas, honestly tabis doesn't matter because it's better if you're able to 1-shot them with sorcs

You shouldn't find yourself in a situation where Vayne can 1v1 you. Literally you should NEVER ever be in a position where Vayne can safely 1v1 you. That means in a teamfight don't "run for your life" the second Vayne tries to go for you, kite into your tanks and she will eat CC and she will get 1-shot.

Thats where Zhonyas is super important - if Vayne wants to try and assassinate you in the backline - she will HAVE TO put herself in a very dangerous position and if you pop zhonyas, she now finds herself completely boned (cause she used her single target DPS on you - and can't kill you anymore 100% boned).

SAVE FOR CC FOR HER. Looking at your previous game Vayne did not buy QSS. The second she gets CC'd she is 100% BONED. Don't show out your Q willy-nilly, the cooldown is long enough for her to kill you. (As lux), Save your Q for when she pops out of stealth. Trust me, you will 1-shot her long before she can kill you if you hit her with Q + E + ult no matter how fed she is.

twitch jungle This is actually up to your jungler to abuse. All you can do is play pretty far back and not take bad trades (aka stay healthy).

Twitch has freaking completely shit ganks - his only benefit is "suprising you". If you are FULL health, not pushed up further than 1/2 lane, then you can literally just walk out of his gank.

ALSO - be very wary if your enemy goes into you "randomly", assume twitch is coming if you don't see him on the map. Don't be like "oh this guy is so stupid I win this trade". No. You're probably going to die.

that's true,actually it's the best way to win a fight,but what if i don't want to be just a bait but actually doing something? (answer) i can't

tank doesn't get damage,AD assassin will pop you like a balloon,ADC can outplay you with a rightclick,if you hit a CC then they have to press even a key for item 3140 (it's hard i guess),so mages are basically a second support which CC's the ones who try to engage his ADC (hi Malzahar ) or a second jungler that have to roam bot and make his ADC fed no wonder that every pure burst mage have a shitty WR

DisembarkDec 10, 20174 votes

Where the hell did people get the notion that Malzahar is a "CC bot". If being a CC-bot was all it took to get a 55% win rate and be pick/ban in competitive - then you'd see Lissandra/Lulu mid a lot more, and Galio wouldn't have an absolutely abysmal win rate.

No, its because his damage was also bonkers. I've played a lot of Malzahar in the past patch - and often times you would easily chunk someone for 2/3 of their health with just an E mid-late.

Also 3 min flash was fucking broken on him.

HarrowRDec 10, 20172 votes

True,buying QSS doesnt even matter,if you land Q,hit E and do some damage with R before they break,out of the cc they are dead anyways,if they chase you,your little minions will eat them away

wildfox99Dec 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Where the hell did people get the notion that Malzahar is a "CC bot". If being a CC-bot was all it took to get a 55% win rate and be pick/ban in competitive - then you'd see Lissandra/Lulu mid a lot more, and Galio wouldn't have an absolutely abysmal win rate.

No, its because his damage was also bonkers. I've played a lot of Malzahar in the past patch - and often times you would easily chunk someone for 2/3 of their health with just an E mid-late.

Also 3 min flash was fucking broken on him.

he is good because he is a safe CC bot with a strong early push which doesn't let enemy mid rush (while liss and lulu can't do it: liss is far less safe and have higher mana cost,lulu have no AoE depush and no kill pressure on her lane),on top of that his ult had 100%+ scaling (like 130% or 150%,i don't remember)

ThefrostyvikingDec 10, 20172 votes

Malz does a ton of damage ontop of CC if played well, tanks or squshies, that's why he could reach 55% winrate.

And why Lissandra has been pretty bad for a entire year straight despite having a arguably better ultimate......no damage in the rest of her kit pretty much.

Weiss GuertenaDec 10, 20179 votes

You're doing wrong by thinking you can actually carry as a mage - which is a non-ADC class and as such isn't allowed to carry by Riot's balance philosophy. So this is how you actually win:

1.) Pick a mage like Morgana Orianna Karma , so you can shield and protect your ADC. 2.) Pick a CC powerhouse mage, so you can CC the opposing ADC for long enough that your ADC can kill them.

Remember, this is 2017 meta. You either play an ADC or an ADC's bitch if you want to win.

HópeDec 11, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Weiss Guertena,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZfzLlbE8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-10T13:44:06.029+0000)

You're doing wrong by thinking you can actually carry as a mage - which is a non-ADC class and as such isn't allowed to carry by Riot's balance philosophy. So this is how you actually win:

1.) Pick a mage like , so you can shield and protect your ADC. 2.) Pick a CC powerhouse mage, so you can CC the opposing ADC for long enough that your ADC can kill them.

Remember, this is 2017 meta. You either play an ADC or an ADC's bitch if you want to win.

I've seen plenty, plenty Oriannas carry a game

BattalionDec 10, 20178 votes

item 3157 item 3047

These will be your best friends. I suggest you build these and stay behind your front line (tanks/melee).

Edit: Also item 3151 this will give you some additional health, decent AP, and that'll help you out against those pesky tanks.

ElkingtonDec 10, 20178 votes

If you can't deal with an adc as a mage, I'm not sure what to tell you. They have it the easiest against adcs, followed by assassins.

I would suggest practicing landing your spells in a custom or something. Either that or play Annie or TF, Vayne can't flashy outplay the Tibbers drop and Gold card.

NiyumeDec 10, 20176 votes

You don't. You just accept the fact that ADCs being broken is profitable, and start maining anything and everything that builds AD, or be non-competitive.

JackMcSnipeyzDec 10, 20174 votes

Is that why some of the most contested picks in LCS are AP midlaners?

NiyumeDec 10, 20171 votes

Now, think about why they pick them. Champs like Ori, like Malz, like Syndra... could it be that they are some of the only champs that can possibly stop an ADC? That or they set up a teamfight with their CC?

Hmm...

Now in terms of actual performance, they're shit.

JackMcSnipeyzDec 10, 20174 votes

Wow, almost like mages excel at different parts like utility and range, and marksman at raw damage?

Oriana syndra and mahlz preformed amazingly winning teamfights by good plays almost by themselves, if that doesnt show you what mages can do, you're just being delusional. Not every class has to have the highest damage, mages have great utility and range, giving them damage on par with late game marksman/melee carries would be just absurd.

NiyumeDec 10, 20171 votes

What is Syndra's job? To one shot someone. Who does that better than her? ... everything that builds AD. She's been reduced to a playmaker, and that's not what she's supposed to be.

Rewarding the easiest champs in the game more than everything else is just asinine.

JackMcSnipeyzDec 10, 20174 votes

Cherry picking syndra who got nerfed and making it like the entire mage roster is like her is biases, most mages are doing fine in terms of win % and playrate. Saying adc is the easiest class is subjective, a lot of people here admit they cant do well with marksman, it's a different playstyle, just because you sprinkle a few Q and R's into your right clicking doesnt make your champ super complex, dont make yourself sound like that rick and morty meme

NiyumeDec 10, 20171 votes

Cherry picking? Okay, so how about ANY burst mage or AP assassin (even Zoe)? None of them can even hold a candle to some bullshit like Zed, Yi, Yasuo, Fiora, Riven, or any ADC... even all the bruisers do more damage on average.

How about control mages? Well... tanks have more utility, CC and damage, so.

The only thing mages still have over AD is the whole artillery mage concept. But that's like 5 champs, so. Plus Jhin, Ez, Cait, Ashe, and the likes are all basically artillery mages with their bullshit range on their abilities.

And I'm not trying to be funny. ADCs are fucking braindead, and AD champs in general are far easier than mages.

JackMcSnipeyzDec 10, 20175 votes

Hmmm, highest winrate champ in the game: mahlz (a control mage) Highest winrate assassin in the game: kat (an AP assassin). Meanwhile zed and talon both have under 50% winrate. Hmmmmm. Zoe can literally 1 shot squishies from a lane's length lol.

Anivia is a control mage no? She has a solid 51% winrate dipping in 52 for a couple of patches now Same with twisted fate and zilean. Just the fact you compared ashe to an artilary mage shows your lack of understanding and total bias.

If you think adc are so ez, why not pick one up and climb out of silver 4?

HarrowRDec 12, 20171 votes

If you think adc are so ez, why not pick one up and climb out of silver 4? god damn,that burn's so nasty it needs a polar ice cap to cool it

hoyohaiDec 10, 20174 votes

I've tried ADC's and they're not easy.

DuskDaUmbreonDec 10, 20175 votes

Try playing the ADC (or any champion) you have problems against. There is no more obvious way to find a champion's weaknesses than by getting your ass handed to you on them.
Save CC for them. Assassins and ADCs have one very common weakness: CC. It takes their only survivability away. It takes away the ADC's sustain, and the assassin's mobility. It's why Elise, Ahri, and Evelynn are insanely strong against ADCs in particular - they have hard CC and burst.
It's entirely possible that you're just missing a lot of your abilities. You have the potential to 100-0 any ADC you find, but only if you actually are close to them (in level and items) and you land everything
It could also be that you're just not playing the right mages. Some mages just aren't good against some ADCs. Lux has a hard time killing highly mobile champions, because she can't land her Q to ult them with.

AirKingNeoDec 10, 20175 votes

You use your Q, W, E, and R.

If you can find those buttons, you can deal with an ADC.

BeastrodDec 10, 20175 votes

As an ADC main, a 1v1 fight between an ADC and most mages is purely a skill matchup, but this skill matchup should never happen. The stage in the game when an ADC has kill pressure on a solo laner is going to be later mid game to end game, and at this point you should be grouping with your team and not find yourself in a 1v1.

If you do find yourself in a 1v1 (this kinda goes for teammights too) save your CC. This is what the APC have over ADC, the ability to CC champions (besides the vayne and Xayah at who need some sort of set up first). If you land your CC, the ADC is dead because you full combo. If you are in a team fight and you land your CC on the ADC, then they are definitely dead as your team should follow.

Tldr: land your CC, and you win.

If you are playing a burst mage (assassins, Victor, ect) it's all about positioning. Don't put yourself in a spot where they get the jump on you, you need to get the jump on them. If you see the ADC split pushing bot by themselves, sit a bush or over a wall, and when they get close burst them ADC don't have a lot of health, and rarely build defensively until their 5th or 6th item. If you are teamfighting, there are a massive amount of variables you need to consider to determine what you should do, but at least you should have your team around you to help deal with the ADC.

wildfox99Dec 10, 20173 votes

{quoted}

As an ADC main, a 1v1 fight between an ADC and most mages is purely a skill matchup, but this skill matchup should never happen. The stage in the game when an ADC has kill pressure on a solo laner is going to be later mid game to end game, and at this point you should be grouping with your team and not find yourself in a 1v1.

If you do find yourself in a 1v1 (this kinda goes for teammights too) save your CC. This is what the APC have over ADD, the ability to CC champions (besides the vayne and Day at who need some sort of set up first). If you land your CD, the ADC is dead because you full combo. If it in a team fight and you CC the ADC, then they are definitely dead as your team should follow.

Tldr: land your CC, and you win.

hi item 3140

ZapMyHeartDec 10, 20173 votes

{quoted}

hi

item 3155 how's it going?

wildfox99Dec 10, 20173 votes

If it in a team fight and you CC the ADC, then they are definitely dead as your team should follow.

i build full damage as a mage (so i'm squishy as well),i need my teammates help for killing a squishy ADC while they still do more damage than me in TF,seems fair

If you are playing a burst mage (assassins, Victor, ect) it's all about positioning. Don't put yourself in a spot where they get the jump on you, you need to get the jump on them. If you see the ADC split pushing bot by themselves, sit a bush or over a wall, and when they get close burst them ADC don't have a lot of health, and rarely build defensively until their 5th or 6th item. If you are teamfighting, there are a massive amount of variables you need to consider to determine what you should do, but at least you should have your team around you to help deal with the ADC.

i just don't see why a class which is supposed to be the main damage of the team and that is already protected by his teammates have to be this strong in 1vs1 fights and that hard to kill...you want build full glasscannon and dealing 800+ damage per auto with 2+AS with no counterplay (you can't dodge autos unless you are jax or shen) while lifestealing for the 30+% of your damage? ok but you should get popped by everyone and you shouldn't be that strong if not peeled,actually i feel like i have to outplay an ADC for killing him,and that mages exist only for not to allow tanks build full armor

HarrowRDec 10, 20174 votes

Oh no you have to outplay someone to kill him,especially in a 1v1? What a cruel joke riot has played on you,you shouldnt be allowed to lose ever obviously,also on a side note,if you want to know how it feels like to have to outplay someone everytime you 1v1,play an adc,you get cced,rip,you cant kite,rip,the enemy has duskblade,rip,you are playing an immobile champ vs mobile one,rip. I really cant imagine Jhin killing a Jarvan,Rengar,Zed 1v1

wildfox99Dec 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Oh no you have to outplay someone to kill him,especially in a 1v1?

it's not someone,it's the main damage of their team that can't actually get killed easily

if a mage would be as impactful as an ADC it'd be ok,if an ADC couldn't deny a mage kill pressure with 1300g it;d be ok,or if a mage could as well have something for not to getting killed with 3 autos it'd be ok

to know how it feels like to have to outplay someone everytime you 1v1,play an adc

it's not like i don't play ADC,i played varus and kog with item 3091 + item 3124 and enemy were melting while a mage couldn't get barely half of my HP with 1 combo (no,i wasn't feed) or vayne/tristana or basically every ADC with a item 3155 / item 3156 and item 3139 if needed,it happened many times that i had a shitty positioning and enemy mage engaged me,even thought i got in my face a full combo i still killed him unless there is a feed **AD **(because if he's an AP ujst get an as i said and you are ok) assassin or we go in TF and i get focussed by 5 people because i was out of positioning i've never been oneshooted

I really cant imagine Jhin killing a Jarvan,Rengar,Zed 1v1

i've nerver mentioned bruisers and assassins,plus they are all AD champions (what a coincidence)

HarrowRDec 10, 20174 votes

If a mage could have something for not getting killed with 3 autos? Are you kidding me item 3157 item 3151 item 3027 item 3116 item 3030 etc etc. Buy 2 of these HP items and you have well over 700 hp more than any ADC,buy zhonya and you get armor and invul. You've never been one shotted by a mage as an ADC,come on,i lost it at this point,anyone here who ever played adc knows how easy it is to get one shotted,especially cause of the damage creep,Lux gets you with her Q? Youre dead,Syndra hits you with QWR youre dead,Malzh presses R,youre dead,Orianna full combo,dead,Annie combo,dead,Veigar can only press R and insta kill you,youre being very biased,you've played 2 games with an ADC and you think you know it all You say you've built this item 3156 on Vayne and tristana got full combod,and lived,lol,im not sure whats more unbelivable in this story,the fact that you bought Maw as what? 2nd,3rd item? and still did damage enough to kill them? Or the fact that full combo didnt get you to half hp,support Sona full combo maybe. On most crit adcs you need item 3087 item 3031 item 3094 first 3 items followed by some Lifesteal or LDR,still if you bought Maw as a 4th item that would still mean that for at least 30 minutes of the game that mage had all the time in the world to one shot you,and you trade possible protection against a one shot,i say possible cause most mages can still oneshot even through a Maw or at least get you low enough that one more spell means death,you trade Lifesteal or Arpen for that,you dont see the bigger picture? Yes you can survive that burst now maybe,but that tank isnt going to die by himself,and the enemy ADC that got pen or botrk now killed your tank,and now you dont have a frontline,and now you lost,gg

Edit: "it's not someone,it's the main damage of their team that can't actually get killed easily",i just checked your match history,80% of your ahri games you had Almost the same or more damage than yours or your enemies ADC,with Ahri,a champ that has 3 dashes,a CC,Sustain,and Damage,and you're still crying how you feel like you have to outplay an adc,how is hitting your W and then oneshotting them an outplay

wildfox99Dec 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If a mage could have something for not getting killed with 3 autos? Are you kidding me etc etc. Buy 2 of these HP items and you have well over 700 hp more than any ADC,buy zhonya and you get armor and invul.

so basically i have to get 3/4 defensive items and giving up damage and CDR for getting killed with 1 or 2 more autos? 300 hp or 45 armor wont help much vs an ADC,not as much as 1 half ADC item can do vs a mage

You've never been one shotted by a mage as an ADC,come on,i lost it at this point,anyone here who ever played adc knows how easy it is to get one shotted,especially cause of the damage creep,Lux gets you with her Q? Youre dead,Syndra hits you with QWR youre dead,Malzh presses R,youre dead,Orianna full combo,dead,Annie combo,dead,Veigar can only press R and insta kill you,youre being very biased,you've played 2 games with an ADC and you think you know it all

no,not without having them 8+ kills ahead of me (and yet just sometimes) i have to admit i may be bacause i main mid so i know how to counter those champions,but honestly no,i find so easy playing vs a mage as ADC

you've played 2 games with an ADC and you think you know it all

what? i almost never played ADC in ranked unless autofilled,it's not my main role,but i played them a lot on drafts even in this pre season (i enjoyed running down bot without my support as draven and getting a triple when i got ganked XD)

You say you've built this on Vayne and tristana got full combod,and lived,lol,im not sure whats more unbelivable in this story,the fact that you bought Maw as what? 2nd,3rd item? and still did damage enough to kill them? Or the fact that full combo didnt get you to half hp,support Sona full combo maybe. On most crit adcs you need first 3 items followed by some Lifesteal or LDR,still if you bought Maw as a 4th item that would still mean that for at least 30 minutes of the game that mage had all the time in the world to one shot you,and you trade possible protection against a one shot,i say possible cause most mages can still oneshot even through a Maw or at least get you low enough that one more spell means death,you trade Lifesteal or Arpen for that,you dont see the bigger picture? Yes you can survive that burst now maybe,but that tank isnt going to die by himself,and the enemy ADC that got pen or botrk now killed your tank,and now you dont have a frontline,and now you lost,gg

no need to get an early maw,an item 3155 (just a 1300g delay,as crit items are that cheap you can efford it) is enought for not to being killed untill they don't get item 3089 + item 3135 especially if both the AP and ADC are the only fed,just get it and the AP wont be able to stop you while you still do more damage than enemy ADC because you are fed,what an AP can do here? nothing,both were fed but still the AP loses it is not ADC fault,i mean this damn item need almost 6600 gold for being countered,and when it gets his upgrade it give the same protection than 2/3 mage items,while still giving a nice amount of AD,lifesteal and CDR...

Edit: "it's not someone,it's the main damage of their team that can't actually get killed easily",i just checked your match history,80% of your ahri games you had Almost the same or more damage than yours or your enemies ADC,with Ahri,a champ that has 3 dashes,a CC,Sustain,and Damage,and you're still crying how you feel like you have to outplay an adc,how is hitting your W and then oneshotting them an outplay

name me a champion that is not a support that can't oneshoot you if 15+kill ahead,tell me where i was whining,i've never said "ADC role is broken because it is" or something,i explained my points (or at least i think)

with Ahri,a champ that has 3 dashes,a CC,Sustain,and Damage (...) how is hitting your W and then oneshotting them an outplay

i was taking you seriously,before i noticed you were trolling or something here

are you seriusly complaining about ahri? one of the most nerfed mid laners? 3 dashed with 110 sec CD,her only CC is easy to doge and gets blocked by tanks,her sustain isn't that much (compared with other sustain abilities) as well and damage...damage...as if she wouldn't be barely able to kill a squishy glasscannon only if she hits everything,only TF deals less burst damage than her (because he still win on DPS with more than 1 rotation)

especially there

how is hitting your W and then oneshotting them an outplay

so...140+30%AP (30% for successive foxfires),with 600AP (full build or almost) it deals barely 500 **pre mitigation **damage,at the time an AD with crit deals 800+damage per AA

don't make random points just because i play her,as if it isn't clear that you mentioned her only because she's my main,if i'd main nunu i'm pretty sure you would have complained about his as well (if it is even possible)

HarrowRDec 12, 20171 votes

Man the down votes speak for themselves,youre delusional,"so basically i have to get 3/4 defensive items and giving up damage and CDR for getting killed with 1 or 2 more autos?" Liandry is a defensive only item? Zhonya doesnt give CDR? ROA doesnt give AP? Yeah,having 800 HP +45 armor and Invulnerability is useless vs an adc but by god you buy item 3155 and those mages now do 0 damage to you cause you got 35 MR and 200 Magic shield,cant i use the same argument you did? so basically i have to get defensive item and give up damage,lifesteal,armor pen, for getting killed with 1 or 2 more spells? just change spells with autos and voila,also im not complaining about ahri,im saying how you argue that ADC is not just someone,its the main damage source of the team,yet you have,as you yourself said with the most nerfed mid mage,managed to get almost every game close to the same or even more damage done than your adc.

Also,so...140+30%AP (30% for successive foxfires),with 600AP (full build or almost) it deals barely 500 pre mitigation damage,at the time an AD with crit deals 800+damage per AA,sure,i must be doing something wrong cause when i get item 3031 item 3087 item 3046 item 3153 i cant seem to crit for 800 per auto as you stated,the number would look much closer to 400 without the statik proc,to anyone that has Ninja Tabi or Zhonya. I get your frustration,im not saying ADCs arent strong,or that Mages are op,but for the love of god you need to play a few games of ADCs,especially try to play something like Kog or Jinx,some adc that needs to be peeled for,and see how easy it is to pump out those autos when Kha comes out of stealth in your face,one shots you,and then disappears like nothing happened.

wildfox99Dec 12, 20171 votes

Man the down votes speak for themselves,youre delusional

not like it's the first time i see a forum,like the downvotes really matters,it may be that there are some people that agree with you and are just downvoting because i'm saying something that they don't like,idc it's just a really tiny part of a part of lol community btw even if the majority say i'm wrong,that doesn't mean i am,otherwise we would still think the earth is flat,so bad point (again) nobody is crying,i made my points so i don't see why i should be delusional...instead look how you are basically trying to find any excuse for saying i'm wrong,instead of answering me,but yes i'm the delusional one

"so basically i have to get 3/4 defensive items and giving up damage and CDR for getting killed with 1 or 2 more autos?" Liandry is a defensive only item? Zhonya doesnt give CDR? ROA doesnt give AP? Yeah,having 800 HP +45 armor

you didn't get the point again i mean for having the same safeness an AP would need a full defensive build that not every mage can effort (not every mage can build these items,especially before their core ones),while an AD can have the same safeness with a 1300g item (vs the 3 slots 9000g needed for your 3 items?) have you even played an AP? they need mana pool,CDR (i see only 10% CDR in these items),high AP items (all low AP items,you won't deal any damage),no one of these items give at least 2 of these stats if you build these ones you wont build these items item 3165 / item 3089 / item 3135 ,each give essential stats that a mage can't skip,you have to give up CDR,AP or/and magic penetration

Invulnerability

which will end up delaying your death by 2.5 sec or being useless vs a DPS (i mean in 1vs1),there are just a few cases where it can be really useful

so basically i have to get defensive item and give up damage,lifesteal,armor pen, for getting killed with 1 or 2 more spells?

you are giving up 20 AD,wow.... getting killed with 2 more spells or AA isn't the same,AA can't be dodged and have no CD,if you survive a mage rotation he have to wait like 7/10 sec before he can do any damage (especially with the lack of damage and CDR that the item you mentioned would give,the only decent is item 3151 ),if an ADC can't kill me with 3 autos he need just another one,like 0.something sec after the previus?

you argue that ADC is not just someone,its the main damage source of the team,yet you have,as you yourself said with the most nerfed mid mage,managed to get almost every game close to the same or even more damage done than your adc.

did you even read my answer? ofc if i have 20 or more kills and the whole time i'm fighting while my ADC got stomped and is playing the whole game bot afk farming i will outdamage him,but still my damage output (not damage over the whole game) was just a bit higher than him then we are talking about my main,not a random champion,i see you main ADC (should have noticed that from your points,you almost never played a mage),and i see your games with MF where you are overfeed as well,so i could make exatly the same point (which still makes no sense)

i cant seem to crit for 800 per auto as you stated

full build i usually reach 300 AD/2.00+AS with some ADC (300*250% = 750,add any damage buff that every ADC or ADC item have),you named 4 items,but i said "full build or almost" (because with 4 items her W would deal somethinkg like 350-400 damage,or less,depeds from your build)

for the love of god you need to play a few games of ADCs,especially try to play something like Kog or Jinx

it's funny how i just said i actually play ADC (and basically every role),sure last games were mostly with mages because i'm trying new builds,but i play many ADC

some adc that needs to be peeled for,and see how easy it is to pump out those autos when Kha comes out of stealth in your face

again,we are not talking about assassins,but about mages it's the same if you are playing a mage,the only difference is that they mainly focus ADCs as they deal more damage than mages with a nice support (and eventually item 3026 ) a kha will never kill you unless you are out of positioning

even you admited that ADC are too strong,there is a reason if an ADC can't be replaced while a mage can,or that ADCs are the first focus and they are the ones that you don't want to die and usually gets tons of shield,heals and buffs

HarrowRDec 13, 20171 votes

Still man in a 1v1 fight if a mage lands his CC the ADC is dead or has 20% hp left,which means he has to run away now or risk chasing you till you get your cd back,which on most AP champs is 2--4 seconds for your main damage ability. Secondly ADCs maybe deal more DPS,but thats ALL they do,mages bring different things to the table,CC,AOE damage,long range artillery, There are just things that no ADC can do that a mage can,Malzha R is basically a death sentence for anyone targeted,Orianna R can win games,Xerath can do damage from half a map away,Ryze can teleport the whole team,TF can reveal the whole enemy team and can come to gank wherever needed,Cass can stun a whole team,Azir can make a turret,Taliyah can make a wall etc. They bring also with them the CC and utility that ADCs just dont have,they only have raw damage,and with that being sad even then most of the time they cant kill a mage 1v1 unless the mage misses 2 of his spells at least,or as you said they have a Maw,that still wont save them from a QER Jarvan or Rengar ulting. I do play mages sometimes,mostly Malzahar,who's op now,and Lux,and i stomp people with them usually,if you get someone in a Lux Q they're good as dead

LordGeovanniDec 11, 20172 votes

Mages could definitely get half your hp with 1 combo with those items. You would then heal it up due to lifesteal even if you have little ad but they could definitely get more than half your hp regardless.

wildfox99Dec 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Mages could definitely get half your hp with 1 combo with those items. You would then heal it up due to lifesteal even if you have little ad but they could definitely get more than half your hp regardless.

getting some HP for then getting killed (because you have everything in CD) and see them full HP again after a few second,that's basically what a mage can do vs an ADC (if he builds properly) maybe half life is exaggerated,but i meant that they couldn't kill me with 1 rotation (so,if a mage can't kill you with 1 rotation can't kill you) simply buying an item that still give some damage and that made me 1vs1 them so easily

LordGeovanniDec 12, 20171 votes

Your job as a mage is burst (and not burst entire hp bars) after you burst them finishing them is not your job. but riot scaling everything to being 2.5 second -4 second cooldown late game doesn't enforce that i understand. kite while your skills are on cooldown and come back in to kill them afterward.

Christopher RPhDec 10, 20173 votes

item 3047

KaìjuDec 10, 20173 votes

What position are you playing a mage as and what mages are you playing?

TeCoolMageDec 10, 20173 votes

Depends on the mage you're playing.

ChemicalBusterDec 10, 20173 votes

hard cc

Stars ShaperDec 10, 20173 votes

The best way is looking for one shot or nearly-oneshot windows so that the ADC is forced to retreat or just die.

This is only achievable by landing a hard CC that allows you to land a full combo on them.

ŻügżwängDec 11, 20173 votes

The adc can't hit you if you burst them down first. I usually go all in on damage/mag.pen ... relying on my positioning and team to stay out of danger. If you think particular opponents are troublesome, build defensively accordingly, but not before youve finished 3 items. Honestly, in bronze, I would just build straight damage, it will help you snowball ahead, and youll be able to kill tanks. Later ELOs require some more strategic buys where you max/min damage/defense. For example, I like to take velkoz, if the adc tries to duel me, I pop barrier and all in them with my combo. Unless they're way ahead, they don't stand a chance. Always know your opponents. If you're up against vayne, don't let her break your channel with her E, but that's understood, every game, be aware of what you need to do to outplay your opponent so you're not surprised... if you see an Ashe, be ready to side dodge if you see her getting too close (especially if her support is pushing up with her), since she's likely posturing up for an all in combo.

I see you like to play Ahri/Lux mid.

For Ahri, you should be able to kill the ADC from your combo. Use your R to close the gap then charm, then use your other skills Q/W, and other 2 Rs to skirt around them hitting killing them. The ADC should never stand a chance if you land your shots. Don't use your Q to run in, because you won't kill them and then you're vulnerable. W is only good for a few extra bits of damage. If you need to, land a few Q's from the edge, then when you think you can combo them, then go in with R.

Lux. Again, they shouldn't be able to get anywhere near you. If you miss your Q or E you're likely dead. Use E to zone, then Q once they are slowed. Or use Q to force them into E if they want to dodge. If you hit Q and E, then R them. Lux is relatively predictable with her strategy, so practicing so you're comfortable landing E right at max distance is what'll raise your skill cap. You may want to start taking comet, especially for lux since they can't dodge it when you hit them with your spells.

wildfox99Dec 11, 20171 votes

[deleted]

ŻügżwängDec 12, 20171 votes

Why are you replying to comments that clearly aren't written for you lol. Trolling?

wildfox99Dec 12, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Why are you replying to comments that clearly aren't written for you lol. Trolling?

what? it were in "my updates",and i can still see it idk if you are joking (sure it didn't seem that you answer to me,so i trust you) but if not i think it may be some bug or something,well if that's true sorry,i will delete it,but honestly i found it in my updates that's weird....spaghetti code hit again? [sg-zephyr]

SnowplosionDec 10, 20172 votes

item 3151 item 3020 As an ADC this combo scares me. It reduces my MR to about ten, which makes it so a Syndra Ult basically is a one shot on its own.

SB ArneemanDec 11, 20172 votes

You should almost never be in a 1v1 situation against their adc outside roams in the laning phase. You want to follow up the engage of your frontline to kill their adc most of the time. A lot of champions can also oneshot the adc, especially if you farm well and buy the right items. Magic pen is the optimal stat for damage right now, so you want to get item 3020 item 3151 on pretty much all mages.

Not all midlaners should even have to deal with the adc either. There are many good midlaners with high dps, I currently main Azir . Then you can just shred the frontline and win fights that way. You also outdamage the adc with even items, especially since you will be higher level.