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Why does riot punish people who are toxic towards trolls?

Teeto Carries U··4 votes·3,058 views

Hi guys, I just wanted to share my experience with Riot's behavior team. They indirectly promote trolling over being toxic. May this post shed some light on the issue.

My last game on my main: My main, which is the account I'm posting on now, was permabanned for toxic behavior. My ryze ulted me into the enemy team, and I said in all chat "I'm about to int" my teammate karma said "aren't you already doing that?" which I inted while being toxic. Noted, I was not banned for intentionally feeding. After the game, in the middle of queue, I received the punishment. I accepted it and started on my new account.

Chat Restriction #2 on new account: I was playing jungle and my mid laner wanted jungle saying that he could not play mid and he would do bad. I said "just play safe and we can win" as he locks in xerath. We get into game and I'm doing my usual brainless jungle clear. My xerath decides to start feeding intentionally, and starts spamming chat by saying "I told you I can't mid". Long story short, everyone on my team were flaming him saying how free this game was because we all did well except him. He ended the game 2/27, constantly flashing into the enemies and dying. I was chat restricted for 15 games and got into a rage induced email argument with a Riot Support member, I was hit with the copy paste "mute and silently report".

1st troll game on new account: I didn't feel like supporting. New account not enough rune pages or champions. I pick Master Yi and forget to change runes and masteries so I go AP Yi support. I died quite a few times but my adc was getting ahead. My mid laner was super toxic, going as far to say that my parents are alcoholics and that I'm a fat neck-bearded loser living in my parents' basement. Well, my adc dced and never rejoined, our mid was still flaming so I let him keep talking in all chat. We lost that game. I ended 1/8, so not bad for intentionally wanting to lose. Post game he threatened me by saying that "he was going to record the game and create a ticket on it". I replied with "all they'll see is you being toxic :)". I then reported him and waited til the next day. I received a notification saying a player was punished, and then I readded him. Here are the messages we sent back and forth. I am removing our names and replacing them with the champions we played. Please remember that Riot employees will never ask for your password when assisting you. 12/25/2016 [4:33PM] Ryze : ???????????? You added me? [4:33PM] MasterYi : hows ur chat restriction bud [4:33PM] Ryze : Wait wtf ??? Yo uarent banned LOL [4:33PM] MasterYi : hows the chat restriction? [4:33PM] Ryze : It is actually kinda sad but that keeps me from talking so ty i needed it welp time to send another ticket [4:34PM] MasterYi : ive done it to inters before [4:34PM] Ryze : can you keep me adfdded i want to see if i can get your account banned [4:34PM] MasterYi : 2/27 xerath i get chat restricted by calling him an asshole prob wont [4:34PM] Ryze : yeah riot is fucking retarded [4:34PM] MasterYi : i mean i even sent a massive email to riot support about it and they ddnt do shit [4:35PM] Ryze : yeah its all copy and paste bs damn well kinda sucks

I don't really care if I get backlash for trolling a game and then getting someone who was trying to win chat restricted. I don't care if Riot finds my new account and gives me whatever punishment. This is the truth, and it should be known so riot starts their automated bullshit. When a streamer says on their stream and posts it on youtube "If you're going to troll, don't type in chat, that's how they punish you.", it's actually sad.

43 Comments

Kitty Cat Tosha7 votes

Why do trolls troll? Because they want to piss you off. If you actually show them they succeeded in pissing you off, you are giving them what they want. You prove in their mind that they are justified in their trolling. You are rewarding them and encouraging them to continue. "Don't feed the troll" is not just a cute internet meme, it's an ancient internet piece of wisdom.

Ignore them, and they lose their justification and their fun. Ignore them, and they will feel even worse.

And beside the troll, you have three other teammates as well. Instead of having to deal with a troll too, now they have to deal with a troll AND a flamer. As if their game was not disrupted enough.

You are punishing the wrong people by flaming. Instead of trying to salvage the game as best you can - even though it may seem hopeless - you are being the final nail in the coffin.

This is basically why rito bans trolls AND flamers. It is not a question of "who started it" or "who was worse". It's a matter of putting EVERY tantrum-throwing-player in a time-out corner.

And mind you, the above is only true for people who troll intentionally. In my experience, most of the time when people yell "TROOLLLL", it's just a player playing badly, getting outplayed or simply not having their game. Flame them, and you will cause them to play worse, also to the detriment of the three other players in your team.

Flaming someone never ever results in something positive. Not for yourself either, because you'll tilt yourself too, and you'll take that attitude into your next game as well.

Tl : Dr: flaming is bad, mkay.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

It's more harmful to keep frustration in. People need a release. Usually it's between flaming, or punching stuff, whether it's a wall or a chair, or even a monitor. Which is worse? Bottling up frustration creates an even worse atmosphere outside of the game. It affects the people around you. So why punish the person trying to climb instead of the person trying to lose intentionally. I hear your point of people doing poorly, but when the laner of this xerath was 0/2 with him not helping when I ganked and killed her, there is 0 way you can do that bad and say he was not trolling, and constantly taunting me saying "see I told you".

Kitty Cat Tosha2 votes

No one cares if you yell at your computerscreen or rape a stressball. By all means, go vent that way. There is absolutely no reason to use the chat for that.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

Most people game alone, people need satisfaction, yelling all by yourself doesn't gain satisfaction. Pain and getting a response is what relieves it.

Kitty Cat Tosha3 votes

Then you desperately need to learn some anger management, my friend.

real ez991 votes

#EU enough said

Kitty Cat Tosha1 votes

It took you 7 months to come up with that? Consider me unimpressed.

EvilDustMan5 votes

Because toxicity only makes things worse.

lIIIIllIIllIIl1 votes

{quoted}

Because toxicity only makes things worse.

if the game is already lost, it doesn't matter what you say to them from a game perspective, because its already over. This game is about winning or losing, not about being the nicest person on the planet. maybe I misunderstood something, care to explain what worse could happen in a match if its not losing it?

Simbafluff1 votes

{quoted}

if the game is already lost, it doesn't matter what you say to them from a game perspective, because its already over. This game is about winning or losing, not about being the nicest person on the planet. maybe I misunderstood something, care to explain what worse could happen in a match if its not losing it?

losing your soul to a video game

AeroWaffle4 votes

Think of it this way, Riot must employ an automated system to quickly and efficiently police poor behavior. If the system were to judge what is acceptable behavior based on who the person is insulting, it would need to be able to detect and judge the context of the situation.

An AI that can do so (accurately) would take an extreme amount of effort, if it wasn't just flat out impossible.

And frankly, it doesn't matter. Another person's poor behavior doesn't make anyone suddenly lose control of their own actions. So trying to judge each and every case by the context of the situation is an unnecessary effort since each person is responsible for their own actions.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

On the contrary, a person who tries his hardest just to watch it fall apart is very frustrating, and how does most of the population of the world handle frustration? with anger.

Kei1431 votes

you can be angry at others and vent at them. Just live with the consequences after.

AeroWaffle2 votes

Riot is not asking people to feel a certain way or to have a certain emotion. Riot is asking you to control your actions.

Just like the rest of the world every time you go outside.

In fact, there are more conscious steps before you can behave poorly in a video game since you must spend the extra time to type out your thoughts.

Aetherium Blade2 votes

Well,

You never want to be toxic, even towards the trolls. It makes you just as toxic as them in the end.

Teeto Carries U2 votes

But when trolls go unpunished just because they don't type in chat is wrong, and toxicity is easily destroyed with a mute button, while trolls cannot.

venomous frost1 votes

you don't know whether they get punished or not, that's just a weak excuse.

Teeto Carries U2 votes

They don't. If they did people would get a popup saying that the person theu recently reported was punished

ModPrandine3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teeto Carries U,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wEP3AnpG,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T11:00:28.600+0000)

They don't. If they did people would get a popup saying that the person theu recently reported was punished

That pop-up only appears if your report was the one that triggered a punishment. Not getting it only means that it wasn't your report alone that punished them, not that they didn't get punished. As for your original question it's because being toxic towards them isn't magically gonna make the situation better: quite the opposite in fact. By not giving them the negative reaction that they want you ensure that only they get punished and you don't.

Gameplay trolling is also punishable, but it's harder to track due to the system needing to be sure that they're actually trolling intentionally rather than just having a bad game or two. That doesn't mean that they're not punished, but it just takes longer to punish them compared to verbal abuse cases. In case you don't believe me Here are two examples of gameplay trolls being banned. Yes it's just two examples, but it proves that they do get punished.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

If it only pops up for the person who triggered the punishment, why is it that with a party of 3 reporting 1 person, did the popup appear to all 3 of us?

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teeto Carries U,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wEP3AnpG,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T13:03:28.385+0000)

If it only pops up for the person who triggered the punishment, why is it that with a party of 3 reporting 1 person, did the popup appear to all 3 of us?

Purely coincidental I'd say. If you want more details then try filing a support ticket about it, as they have more info on that than I do.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

support tickets are useless, they copy paste the same shit over and over and then send you to the next person, and then when they fail they tell you to post on the boards.

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teeto Carries U,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wEP3AnpG,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T13:08:38.831+0000)

support tickets are useless, they copy paste the same shit over and over and then send you to the next person, and then when they fail they tell you to post on the boards.

From my experience if you continue on with the conversation eventually you'll get a non-automated reply. It helps if you remain respectful though.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

No I know it isn't automated. But it feels like a monkey at a desk constantly hitting ctrl v

ffat35minute1 votes

man how much i hate "you are just as bad" attitude, no it doesnt if you have an obnoxious neighbor who's always so loud you are not a villain if you told them to shut the fuck up for once

people who intentionally ruin others games deserve flame whether by pure stupidity or just out of vile trolling it doesnt matter it's still a wasted frustrating 20 minutes of your life and you are expected to behave perfectly like a 3 years old in a kindergarten? fuck that

riot doesnt even leave you a choice leaving is punishable dodging is punishable you cant mute a feeder you just want to play a normal game without idiots or leave the game asap if you get stuck in one both options are denied unless you want to wait even more for "afking" or "dodging" this situation will make most people blood boil that's how much frustrating it is

Aetherium Blade1 votes

{quoted}

man how much i hate "you are just as bad" attitude, no it doesnt if you have an obnoxious neighbor who's always so loud you are not a villain if you told them to shut the fuck up for once

people who intentionally ruin others games deserve flame whether by pure stupidity or just out of vile trolling it doesnt matter it's still a wasted frustrating 20 minutes of your life and you are expected to behave perfectly like a 3 years old in a kindergarten? fuck that

riot doesnt even leave you a choice leaving is punishable dodging is punishable you cant mute a feeder you just want to play a normal game without idiots or leave the game asap if you get stuck in one both options are denied unless you want to wait even more for "afking" or "dodging" this situation will make most people blood boil that's how much frustrating it is

Note to Mods: Apologies for the nerco, feel free to remove, but I had a few interesting points to add so I hope you let this slide this time.

Ill add a few things.

There are plenty of ways to have fun with people like that than to be straight up toxic. In any case, those who "intentionally troll for the sake of trolling are doing it solely to get a rise out of you and all participates of said games. If you respond to it, they win, and know what to do to push you the next time you happen to queue up.

As for Normals, you aren't going to get very many people who will want to "try" to win, but rather play the mode solely to have fun with friends or without. It is the mode where people try really odd things such as AP on hit Warwick, or AP Braum or AP on hit Sivir etc, you get the idea... You can't go into Normals with a Ranked mind because you're going to be sorely disappointed in yourself. If you get queued up with people who are gonna try odd stuff, you might as well treat it as a test game for something you may have wanted to try for awhile, whatever it is.

Lastly,

This is League Of Legends, where people AFK in Ranked/Normals no matter what Elo you are, although it happens alot less in Challenger because most of those people know one another, however it still happens. I get that it's a time waster, and granted it can be extremely frustrating, but at the same time you accepted that during matchmaking knowing that it can happen, and you acknowledge that it could be the people on your team. If you're good at what you do, you'll climb out of there whether or not you have leavers in your game. The more it happens the better you get a handling situations when and where it does happen.

Think of the positives rather than the negatives, stay focused, whether its a win or loss. You'll get more out of that "feeder/leaver/afk" game than you realize. You might surprise yourself.

That's how I look at situations, although I play mostly Normals, but I have read so many ranked horror stories that I can get a pretty good gist of what happens in Ranked games, and the few that I have played I have had this happen. But at the same time, since my account creation at the start of Seasons 2, I have yet to be banned/warned/chat restricted/suspended, because at the end of the day, its just a game and life will continue whether you play league or not.

Teeto Carries U2 votes

As I take all of you're comments in, I see it as Riot as the mother with no time, she hears the youngest of 2 brothers, the troll, crying about how the older brother, an average person playing this game, call him a name. Mother Rito punishes the older brother without hearing his side of the story of how the youngest knocked his building block structure that he worked hours on building. Correct me if I'm wrong.

ModPrandine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teeto Carries U,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wEP3AnpG,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-12-29T13:11:37.073+0000)

As I take all of you're comments in, I see it as Riot as the mother with no time, she hears the youngest of 2 brothers, the troll, crying about how the older brother, an average person playing this game, call him a name. Mother Rito punishes the older brother without hearing his side of the story of how the youngest knocked his building block structure that he worked hours on building. Correct me if I'm wrong.

If both people act up then both will get punished. As I said earlier though it takes longer to punish gameplay trolling because the system has to be sure they're actually trolling rather than just having a bad game or two, with some of these cases often requiring a manual review to crack. Verbal abuse cases are easier to track and are more common because the information and proof is more readily available (and obvious) than gameplay trolling is.

It's a common theme in TV shows where eventually the original troublemaker thinks that they can continue to get away with it, gets cocky, slips up and gets busted and punished for their actions. The same thing applies here. Is it annoying? Yes. Do they still get punished though? Yes.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

Well we'll have to see if I decide to level another account up and use that for constant trolling to see if you're theory is correct. I have high hopes that it won't ever be banned and I will get plenty of bronze chat restricted

ModPrandine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Teeto Carries U,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wEP3AnpG,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2016-12-29T13:54:42.104+0000)

Well we'll have to see if I decide to level another account up and use that for constant trolling to see if you're theory is correct. I have high hopes that it won't ever be banned and I will get plenty of bronze chat restricted

As I said earlier there are definitely cases of gameplay trolls being banned. Part of the reason we get so few threads regarding them here is because the ones who are banned usually know what they were banned for and as such don't need to come here to complain about them. In case you don't believe me Here are two examples of gameplay trolls being banned. Yes it's just two examples, but it proves that they do get punished.

NOTE: Ignore my reply to another one of your posts. I accidentally replied to the wrong comment and deleted it when I found out.

swordofsun2 votes

Nah, it's more like the mom who's already worked a full day and is trying to put together dinner and the kids just won't sit down and play nicely. What happens at this point? Everyone gets yelled at and no one gets video games.

At that point it's a classic "I don't care who started it, I'm finishing it" case. Which is often all you can do once the kids get going.

Teeto Carries U3 votes

If both of them got punished then why does the troll not get punished :)

swordofsun1 votes

Did you report him? Did anyone report him? Only the people reported will get flagged for review.

Trolls are also harder to catch, as explained below, so they need to accumulate more reports unfortunately. Just because you don't personally see the punishment doesn't mean it's not happening.

vOmvbrawfU2 votes

I reported a guy for intentionally feeding. Looked at his match history and he had 250+ straight games with an average score of 0-34-1. I'm not lying. I then supported that information to a support ticket. I then watched the player for about 3 weeks on OP.GG. Still playing games and still doing the same thing.

So please tell me, how much information they need to accumulate? This games policy on trolling is quite the joke.

CrazyBear19871 votes

As much as we all want to be the "Batman of league of legends" Riot themselves just want toxicity in general to not exist.

so "Passive aggressive" is the way to go unfortunately.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

Unfortunately passive aggression is under "unsportsmanlike conduct" I believe. And its not really about being a batman of league, if riot wants a better community, punishing people who try hard in the ladder don't deserve to be screwed and frustrated with trolls intentionalpy losing the game. I've had those moments of just not caring but that's how I've adapted from being toxic to a mix of tryhard and troll. If they want a community that isn't garbage, they need to clarify their "unmeta" picks rule on why a smiteless soraka jg wouldn't be banned. (Just an example)

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

They use a completely automated system which uses no context whatsoever, so if you are "toxic" to a troll/intentional feeder/person who tells you to kill yourself, it is irrelevant. The system only cares about what you say; it is unable to tell if you said it in response or with regards to something, or if you were the one being "toxic".

Teeto Carries U1 votes

Then they should take the options other than leaving the game, verbal abuse, offensive name, and unsportsmanlike conduct out of the options. They're useless if the automated system is worthless for intentionally feeding. Hell, they should take leaving the game out of there too because you're auto punished even if no one reports.

BlackHorizon381 votes

It is soo hard to start a new account now. When I first started the newbie community wasnt THAT bad, I recently (about 7 months ago) created another account that within the FIRST 2 DAYS of me playing that account, I was chat restricted for ultimately the same thing, trying to straighten ut the troll. I sent a ticket and they just told me "too bad, wait it out".

I'll admit I'm a whiney player, I involuntarily type 'damn it' when I die and what not. But I'm not toxic. At least not to normal people who are just trying to play. BUT its HARD not to be toxic towards someone who is intentionally feeding, going 2/27. that is ridiculous.

LatetotheRace1 votes

Because you broke the rules as well.

Teeto Carries U1 votes

Hi everyone, just read this link, and if its true, maybe we'll get it in the future. There are so many problems with these automated systems, but I understand they don't have the man-power to handle every task. Here's the link.

Drugoth1 votes

Toxic is toxic, doesn't matter who you're doing it to, or the reasons why.

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