not playing on the other person's account, but playing on a smurf and carrying them to a rank they don't deserve
can people get in shit for this? seems like everyone above gold is doing it, i would but i don't want my main account banned
don't lecture me about how carrying people to a higher rank isn't morally right because i do not care and dynamic queue is a disaster anyways
ModMod Curator7 votesQueuing with a friend, even if they're a higher rank than you, has always been acceptable. This isn't a Dynamic Queue thing, you could do this with the old Solo/Duo queue as well. There are restrictions in that you can only queue with someone within a certain range and the system auto-detects this, unless it's a smurf.
What isn't OK is for someone to log into your account, for free or paid, and play your character. Exchanging gifts/services/money/etc for duo isn't acceptable either.
I'm basing these statements on what we do and don't allow to be posted on the Boards. Team Recruitment is full of people requesting duos/groups to play with and we always remove posts about someone else playing on your account as well as paid coaching/duo offers.
shyv1 votesok, cool. was going to post on team recruitment looking for more smurfs to help me get my bronze 5 friend to gold but i didn't want riot to see that and ban me. thank u.
SrbLud2 votesBut shouldn't it be punishable to ruin someones experience? Please hear me out.
If someone is boosted "legaly" to a rank they don't belong at, they will create problems for other people in that rank once they go solo. They just won't be able to play at the same level as they have no solid experience to be able to play in that rank succesfully. Sure their MMR will fall off fast but in the meantime they will ruin other peoples games while climbing and falling.
If they can carry themselves in higher ranks then ok. But most people getting boosted end up falling down.
EDIT: also if getting boosted by smurfs is not punishable, how are solo players meant to climb once everyone starts doing it...it's allready here and just keeps getting worse.
I understand if you can't answer these and i think we should get a rioter in here to explain. We touched some serious stuff.
SmokedAlmonds1 votesI have little doubt that riot considers people surfing with their friend with the intended purpose of raising their rank to be a problem. But what can you actually do to differentiate that from say 2 friends that are just a different skill level and play together?
ModMod Curator4 votesBut shouldn't it be punishable to ruin someones experience? Please hear me out.
If someone is boosted "legaly" to a rank they don't belong at, they will create problems for other people in that rank once they go solo. They just won't be able to play at the same level as they have no solid experience to be able to play in that rank succesfully. Sure their MMR will fall off fast but in the meantime they will ruin other peoples games.
If they can carry themselves in higher ranks then ok. But most people getting boosted end up falling down.
I'm merely stating what Riot's stance on this is based on their rules for Boards posts. I have no say in the decision making process behind this.
That being said, I've been playing this game since 2010 and this has always been something that has happened. It's not new and it's not game-breaking. If someone gets to a higher rank because they queued with another person, either they'll stay there because they actually are good enough to maintain their rank, or they'll fall back to their appropriate rank.
It's important to remember that to climb, even queued with others, you still have to be good enough to work with the team and defeat your opponents. If they're that good, they can probably hold the rank. This is why this is different from "ELO Boosting" where you have someone else play on your account. That truly shows no skill on your part where queuing with others and climbing actually shows competency.
Again, that's my personal opinion as a player that's queued solo in 99% of my games since 2010.
shyv1 voteswell, since there's no LP decay, he can actually stay in gold for the rest of the season and just sit back and collect his rewards
we're just going to make him support, he can't mess anything up too badly if he just plays soraka or janna or something and has a high elo adc main to lane with.
bronze and silver don't stand a chance against people who are plat +, in voice comms, all dyn queued together. maybe that makes me a scumbag but he's my friend and wants free skins, can't really blame him.
ModMod Curator2 voteswell, since there's no LP decay, he can actually stay in gold for the rest of the season and just sit back and collect his rewards
we're just going to make him support, he can't mess anything up too badly if he just plays soraka or janna or something and has a high elo adc main to lane with.
bronze and silver don't stand a chance against people who are plat +, in voice comms, all dyn queued together. maybe that makes me a scumbag but he's my friend and wants free skins, can't really blame him.
The major downside to this is that if he's truly not good enough to play in Gold, he'll lose all his games going forward which isn't a very enjoyable way to play League, end-of-season rewards or not.
shyv2 votesonce he hits gold he'll just stop playing ranked though. no LP decay.
archerno11 votesonce he hits gold he'll just stop playing ranked though. no LP decay.
Gold is nothing really. You can get gold from first 10 games, doing nothing special. Just pick janna and shield arround and ward and u will win more than u will lose and u will get gold.
Here 7:3, ended game with horrible score, got carried that game and ended in gold
http://i.imgur.com/6LRMLbW.jpg
Real boosting is to diamond or even plat, where you do decay.
shyv1 votesim not saying gold is impressive, getting gold was incredibly easy, it's just that gold 5 0 lp is the point at which you can earn victorious skins, so that's what he wants.
SrbLud1 votesIt's less enjoyable to all the people who got stomped on in order for him to get there, and people who will loose games in the future because of him. So now do you see our concerns?
ModMod Curator3 votesIt's less enjoyable to all the people who got stomped on in order for him to get there, and people who will loose games in the future because of him. So now do you see our concerns?
As a player, I get the concerns around it. I'm not someone that can change it though, I just came here to answer the question based on past seasons and what is currently removed on the Boards.
Granted, things can absolutely change mid-season as the rules for what earns you rewards this season haven't been set in stone as far as I'm aware. This person could very well be excluded from rewards if the rules are changed. Until Riot makes a public statement, there's no way to know for sure.
SrbLud1 votesNice, so we are on the same page. I appreciate all the help you gave us but one more thing... Could we get a rioter to come in and explain how this can be fixed ( or not ), and to give us more insight if possible? And if a rioter can't come in, could you ( or rioter ) at least link us to any known statements regarding this issue.
ModMod Curator3 votesNice, so we are on the same page. I appreciate all the help you gave us but one more thing... Could we get a rioter to come in and explain how this can be fixed ( or not ), and to give us more insight if possible? And if a rioter can't come in, could you ( or rioter ) at least link us to any known statements regarding this issue.
If Riot is ready to make a statement about this, they will. I don't know of any official statements about this currently. If there was one, I'm sure it would be plastered all over the Boards/reddit.
lolptwo1 votesI agree with everything you've said. However I personally believe it is a larger issue that one might expect, and certainly larger than simply DuoQ's.
I've played in really high elo, I know people who have Boosted and been banned for it. The major wall with the boosting business before was 2 things.
1: It was still difficult to "boost" at high elo even with a Solo/Duo Q because of the MMR reductions in your team (thus the high pricing for Diamond/Plat games)
2: There is a system in place to make sure you cannot log onto someone elses account and boost their account up. Thus implementing a huge risk in doing so for both the booster and the boostie.
Dynamic Q bypasses all their roadblocks and let me explain why.
Getting a smurf to Silver/Gold level is incredibly easy, there are people out there who even Bot accounts, the game is free. Thus meaning even if you get 20 games out of a botted account you still made your money and lost no time in doing so.
2: Now you can get 4- Master players (at exceeding rates but guarantee time preference and no punishment guarantee) to absolutely eliminate any slowing process to reaching HIGH Diamond in League. This is EXTREMELY horrible for high elo players who Solo Q right now, because oftentime these Solo Q boosted accounts do not have friends in high elo thus going directly into high elo and ruining the ENTIRE system from the top down until they eventually plummet down to Bronze/Silver.
3: In a game with over 65million users and give that 90% of the community is Gold below. This problem will become MASSIVE, as there will be no system that can accurately detect Dynamic Boosting without scrapping the entire Q altogether. Now think of even a million players getting boosted to Diamond heights? It literally washes up the entire system altogether. Think about all the games on the way up that will be broken and again all the games on their way down that will be broken again. This adds another level of mathematic variance in the game that is a large variance and there is nothing you can do about it.
4: People do not have to log into other people accounts anymore. What Boosters are doing now is a "teach as you go" pay price. They will teach the low elos how to do exactly what they need them to do in order to continue to climb. It would be similar to a Grandmaster player telling you every move to make playing Chess up until a point where they just get up and leave you to play against other Master Tier Chess players; these players won't have the years of cognitive thinking and skill to even remotely put up a fight.
franticFurball2 votesIt's not new and it's not game-breaking.
Correction: It WASN'T game breaking, because only two people could do it at the same time.
Now, you can take 4 Diamond players, who make new accounts (which they can level in 3 days) and queue with one Bronze player, who then "ranks up" to platinum I in a matter of days.
Having 1 higher ELO smurf in a game wasn't breaking it, especially after tank updates gave a real answer to the "Assassin Problem" after season 3.
But having FOUR smurfs on the same team...well well well...that's not only game breaking, thats fun breaking, up to the point where I not even play ranked any more, because I have no desire to support the direction this game is going into.
shyv1 votes^^ i know people that are doing this with 4 smurfs
KarmasPolice3 votesYou do realize I hope how many holes your arguments have. Titanic like MASSIVE black holes sucking the light out of everything. Nothing you say here holds, it's better sometimes to not respond if you can't give a serious response.
ModMod Curator2 votesYou do realize I hope how many holes your arguments have. Titanic like MASSIVE black holes sucking the light out of everything. Nothing you say here holds, it's better sometimes to not respond if you can't give a serious response.
I wasn't attempting to make an ironclad argument, just stating why this generally hasn't been an issue over the last 6 years. But thanks for your opinion.
KarmasPolice2 votesI read a little down the thread that it's your personal opinion, so I respect that.
I will say this thou. DQ is a brand new system and should be treated as such.
All of the current DQ problems would have been easy to foresee, and I am sad that Riot(not you) squashes any legitimate conversation, and pick and choose what questions to answer. It feels very ingenuine.
ModMod Curator2 votesI read a little down the thread that it's your personal opinion, so I respect that.
I will say this thou. DQ is a brand new system and should be treated as such.
All of the current DQ problems would have been easy to foresee, and I am sad that Riot(not you) squashes any legitimate conversation, and pick and choose what questions to answer. It feels very ingenuine.
I'm in agreement that the rewards system should be re-evaluated in respect to DQ as that only makes sense. However, I haven't seen Riot actually "squash" any conversations at all. They've stated multiple times that they're working on the system and trying to improve it; they've even outlined their goals as to what they're working on.
Just because they're not answering every post about something doesn't mean they're ignoring it, it means they don't have an answer yet because they're still working on it. Patience is important, though it seems that's not something we as gamers always have a lot of. ;)
KarmasPolice3 votesBut at what point it's time to say enough is enough? DQ has been online for 4+ months! That's ages in a tech's company lifespan! Longest grace period I have ever seen and still no real improvement.
The truth is that this has made me quit the game, I like the game, but having to share my solo hard earned rank with a bunch of guys that voice comms'd their way up as 5 is defeating the purpose.
If you say that the reward system has to be revamped, then how would you go at it? If you suddenly move the rewards to plat, you solved nothing and just devalued the rank even more. If you put any restrictions on the DQ this way(either by size party, number of games played or limiters like in high-elo) it would reflect bad on the system. It's just a lose-lose situation right now in my eyes.
ModMod Curator2 votesBut at what point it's time to say enough is enough? DQ has been online for 4+ months! That's ages in a tech's company lifespan! Longest grace period I have ever seen and still no real improvement.
This isn't a tech company, it's a video game company dealing with complex interconnected software systems that are also interconnected to real life players and their behaviors. They're not creating a product, they're creating an interconnected social system. That's much harder to manage correctly. Sure, they could make knee-jerk changes based on public opinion, but as has been proven time and again in the history of online gaming, that rarely, if ever, ends up well.
The truth is that this has made me quit the game, I like the game, but having to share my solo hard earned rank with a bunch of guys that voice comms'd their way up as 5 is defeating the purpose.
Riot has made a clear and concise decision about what they feel is best for the game and that is team play as opposed to solo play. They outlined this in their recent Riot Pls update. If you don't agree with that, by all means stop playing. However, it is very important that they finally address this issue and pick a side. It is basically impossible to please both sides of the debate between solo player value and team play. However, they've stated they see the game as a sport and as such are making changes that align best with that decision. That means team play is what needs to be rewarded primarily, which solo skill a close second. Your solo skill still matters, but it's now not the only thing you're being rated on.
If you say that the reward system has to be revamped, then how would you go at it? If you suddenly move the rewards to plat, you solved nothing and just devalued the rank even more. If you put any restrictions on the DQ this way(either by size party, number of games played or limiters like in high-elo) it would reflect bad on the system. It's just a lose-lose situation right now in my eyes.
I've played other games that keep separate ratings in a dynamic queue based on whether you queued solo or with a group and divided rewards as such. I don't see any reason this couldn't be considered an option for Riot. But that's just my opinion and only one way to address the rewards situation.
KarmasPolice2 votesEvery sport, pick any sport you want, start with both sides leveled, no matter the skill difference.
Right now in league, this is not the case. First, there is voice-comms, where it is not officially supported by Riot. One team using it, when the other doesn't would tip the game in her favor, before the game even started. Also, those voice comms are external applications, I would consider it closer to cheating than you think would. Point is, this isn't a sport until this specific issue is fixed.
Second, there are still unbalanced matchmaking. ALOT of unbalanced matchmaking. I play solo, and i had multiple solos vs. premade games, which is like bringing an NBA team to play random players. At best an exhibition match.
franticFurball2 voteshas always been acceptable
And because of that, combined with DynamicGarbage, the ranked ladder is completely meaningless right now =)
disregardable3 votesYup. That's the point of the queue. It's not boosting if the system allows it.
shyv1 voteslmfao what a mess. thanks though.
Ada Wong2 votesTo my knowledge unless someone else knows more its totally legal, Personally I think its cheating, and Riot needs to do something about it.
But as long as each user is playing their own accounts then it would be considered legal.
Also Riot can't verify a person is playing on their own accounts if a user is using Team Viewer to play for example.
SrbLud2 votesIf they can prove boosting was your intention then it would be punishable. Sudden spikes in MMR could lead to an investigation...
shyv1 votesyes, but:
i don't think either of us can be punished for that can we?
i have a friend in bronze 5 who really wants end of season rewards, the problem is that he's been bronze 5 for several years and totally needs to stay there. but me & my higher elo friends are totally willing to get him to gold, as long as our main accounts don't get punished for it
Lùmen1 votesWhat about me? i've been playing in DynaQ for a few weeks as a team of 3 premades, always a duo lane and a jungler and our invades always work. we always pull off awesome ganks. we carry every single game. Silver 1 > Plat IV. ofc there has been a spike in my MMR thanks to all the good KDA's i've had thanks to this recently. will i be investigated?
SrbLud1 voteswell curator just confirmed it's ok to boost in party...i don't get it...party of two, 1 smurf 1 boosted, i understand...but if 4 people boost one guy how can it be okay...
PDE5 Inhib2 votesRito commented "nice stream" on a guy that was boosting his donors.
shyv1 voteslmao wasnt that dekar? i remember something about that
xVARIANTx1 votesWhat's absolutely terrible about this system is that someone can play with the premade as a smurf win a bunch of games, then play by themselves and troll to lose mmr. Then they get back with their buddy and start climbing again, rinse repeat. There's no way to combat this at all and something dynamic/duo queue enables completely.
shyv1 votesthats what ive been doing
EDIT: not int feeding or trolling but definitely not tryharding like i do with my duo.
ModMod Curator2 votesWhat's absolutely terrible about this system is that someone can play with the premade as a smurf win a bunch of games, then play by themselves and troll to lose mmr. Then they get back with their buddy and start climbing again, rinse repeat. There's no way to combat this at all and something dynamic/duo queue enables completely.
You specifically state they're trolling to lose MMR. That is a reportable/bannable offense and Riot's systems are being trained to detect that automatically, but you're also free to report them for it post-game to have that person actioned.
xVARIANTx1 votesYou specifically state they're trolling to lose MMR. That is a reportable/bannable offense and Riot's systems are being trained to detect that automatically, but you're also free to report them for it post-game to have that person actioned.
They don't have to make it so obvious though, they can try out new champions, new rune setups, a different position, try a new meta. Decide, 'this is the no ward game'. Plenty of things a person can do to not obviously lose on purpose. That's not something that you'd know right away unless you knew them as a player.
The Deckowner1 votesIt is legal, and the system is kinda promoting it, which is kinda sad.
shyv1 votesDynamic Queue Was A Mistake
Hypochondria91 votesI know I've played with 3-4 man pre-mades where they just stick the worst player in support to play with a solo ADC and try and carry the game through mid and top while abandoning you bot lane with a trash support.
shyv1 votesthats what we're doing
Lùmen1 votesDynamic Queue is great! it encourages the idea of playing as a team to crush your pitiful opponents! (you, for example, who complain about the system) Silver 1 to Plat IV. all thanks to DynaQ . ^^ (nobody is even smurfing, 3 premades is an op way to win the game)
