"norms doesnt matter"? then stop counting, RIOT.

Quil Evrything·Mar 20, 2018·1 votes·574 views

people have an attitude of "norms dont matter". except they do, becuase riot makes them matter.

RIOT, putting a win/loss counter on normal games, makes them matter. it makes it impossible for some people (such as myself) to just shrug and say "oh well", when there is a PERMENANT COUNTER of wins and losses.

At one point, you took it away. but then a year or something ago, you brought it back.

If you want to encourage player behaviour of "okay its cool to just try out new stuff here because it doesnt count"... then stop KEEPING A COUNT. And promise that the change will be permenant.

please. It's ruining a fully casual attitude for that mode.

12 Comments

Umbral RegentMar 20, 20186 votes

Why sacrifice worthwhile information for the sake of making a point that is completely and utterly beside the nature of the info being sacrificed?

There's no valid reason to just stop counting wins and losses in Normals just to say that "it's the more casual PVP mode".

Quil EvrythingMar 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pyxWMo6A,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-20T03:51:37.500+0000)

Why sacrifice worthwhile information for the sake of making a point that is completely and utterly beside the nature of the info being sacrificed?

There's no valid reason to just stop counting wins and losses in Normals just to say that "it's the more casual PVP mode".

whats the value of this "information"? state what the value is of keeping the counter?

Quil EvrythingMar 20, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pyxWMo6A,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-20T04:28:16.321+0000)

whats the value of this "information"? state what the value is of keeping the counter?

I've pointed out that there is a very clear reason NOT to keep it. information for informations sake, is not valid. there needs to be actual positive value to the information. particularly when there is a clear negative offset to publicising the information

Umbral RegentMar 20, 20185 votes

whats the value of this "information"? state what the value is of keeping the counter?

Your total wins and losses in a given gamemode are relative indicators of your personal experience and growth in skill. On top of that, they're relatively good indicators of time spent (I know for a fact that I've played over 1,400 Normal matches, and have a winrate at least over 50% overall)

I've pointed out that there is a very clear reason NOT to keep it.

The only reason I see is that you seem to misunderstand the argument that Normals are a more relaxed gamemode than Ranked. Here's how things are:

No matter what gamemode, you are expected to play to win. That is the biggest thing that all gamemodes have in common.

Ranked is the "srs bsns" gamemode, where you're expected (by the community mostly) to be playing at peak performance with every ounce of focus and energy dedicated to winning. It's where you go when you have pretty much everything on lock, and you are absolutely certain that you can reliably win matches with your set-ups.

Normal is the more casual mode, where you're still expected to try and win, but you're not expected to go all out. If you're intentionally not trying to win, you can be punished, but as long as you intend to break the enemy Nexus, you can try out most any set-up you can think of to do that.

Riven Support? Try it out, feel free. Taric Top lane? Why not? Melee ADC w/ Blitz Support? Go for it.

Wins and losses don't change the fact that Normals are fairly relaxed, and, as I mentioned, there's no good reason to sacrifice the win/loss counter solely for the sake of hammering home that "Normals = Relaxed, Ranked = Hardcore" - particularly because removing the win/loss counter wouldn't hammer that statement home hardly at all.

It'd be like removing your LP gain/loss counter in Ranked, while still having it in the background. You can't see how well you're doing, but the intention of Ranked is still the same; play hard, and climb. The only difference would be that you can't see how well you're doing until you've moved up or down a tier/division.

information for informations sake, is not valid.

Except even the most odd, out-of-place data can still be valid information. Don't discredit the validity of win/loss data just because you think it contributes to some unspoken gravity in Normals.

there needs to be actual positive value to the information.

Does there, really?

particularly when there is a clear negative offset to publicising the information

What negative?

MagicFlyingLlamaMar 20, 20184 votes

According to riot (and people who get banned) norms do matter.

You can be less serious than in ranked, but if it gets you banned in ranked, it also gets you banned in norms.

The point of them is a place to practice or play casually without a lasting consequence to winning or losing.

Same for ARAM, and ARAM players tend to be very touchy about it.

Also nobody gives a damn about that counter, except the tryhard trash you should not care about them caring about your win/loss counter for norms, anyway.

Quil EvrythingMar 20, 20181 votes

{quoted} The point of them is a place to practice or play casually without a lasting consequence to winning or losing.

the counters ARE a "lasting consequence", so thats a contradition. Can you come up with an actual, rational counterpoint, or would you rather just sling insults?

MagicFlyingLlamaMar 20, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quil Evrything,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=pyxWMo6A,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-03-20T04:27:09.260+0000)

the counters ARE a "lasting consequence", so thats a contradition. Can you come up with an actual, rational counterpoint, or would you rather just sling insults?

Well, if you want to be offended by simple truth, nobody can help you. Enjoy spending your entire life in a state of righteous outrage.

LeylaniaMar 20, 20183 votes

I don't even remember when was the last time that someone said that normals don't matter.

If you want to play casual (but still not completly int) you go into normals, if you want to tryhard you go ranked.. If you would remove the counter no one would play to win anymore and normals would become one huge shitfest where everyone feeds his ass off 24/7. If you want to practice in a way that will be counter intuitive to winning and you know you will feed like hell then go into a bot game. Riot encouraging people to learn new stuff does not mean that they want you to feed your ass off in normal games, they still want it to be competitive.

Quil EvrythingMar 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

If you want to play casual (but still not completly int) you go into normals, if you want to tryhard you go ranked.. If you would remove the counter no one would play to win anymore and normals would become one huge shitfest where everyone feeds his ass off 24/7.

its interesting that you use "would" as the tense. lucky you. because in my experience, thats exactly how most people play in my normal games already. Which is why I want the counter to go away, since theres not much I can do about it.

Hexs FortuneMar 20, 20182 votes

people have an attitude of "norms dont matter".

Of course normals matter. Most people play more normals than ranked!

FlyingRoboticCowMar 20, 20182 votes

if it doesn't matter then what do you care that the number is there? I like having the number there.

Legion CourierMar 20, 20181 votes

Yes, literally no point in it. They should also remove W/L on bots and every other game mode variance besides Rank. Like who should give a hoot if you have over 2,500 wins or 2,000 lost games. It doesn't give you enough information for anything. You can't really tell if you're improving since most of the time you get match against or with people who are first timing champions. It's a roll of a die thing.