I don't understand how these chat logs warrant a 25 game chat ban?

Oxóssi·Mar 31, 2019·1 votes·2,109 views

I don't know what happened to my earlier thread, so I've created another:

As I said in the OP, I understand my logs aren't pristine, but I do not understand how Riot can promote itself as a competitive simulator while simultaneously banning people for becoming upset with trolls, soft inters, and afkers. Further, the idea that I have to suffer these types of players in silence creates an innate hostility against teammates. I.e. I can deal with losing to a competent opponent, but having to also combat my teammates to win is extremely tilting. Going forward I don't intend on communicating with teammates at all. As doing so does far more harm than good. I don't understand how Riot rationalizes "disciplining" players with an escalating scale of punishments that can ultimately culminate in a lost account for language as tame as this:

Game 1

Pre-Game Oxóssi: they should put a faster timer on champ select In-Game Oxóssi: Vel, leash him pls Oxóssi: i have to lay tents Oxóssi: you're bad Oxóssi: you're the one feeding Oxóssi: cause i have no mobility Oxóssi: and dont want to feed with you Oxóssi: feeder Oxóssi: making everyone elses job harder Oxóssi: feeder Oxóssi: this dude ruined my lane Oxóssi: yep Oxóssi: 2-0 Oxóssi: i have no deaths Oxóssi: where's you awarness, vel? Oxóssi: you arent good Oxóssi: well im done either way Oxóssi: you're hard stuck in your rank Oxóssi: lmao Oxóssi: na Oxóssi: huh?> Oxóssi: and you're fiora? Oxóssi: and my JG gave you to kill lead Oxóssi: you're just bad Oxóssi: Told you Yi was a troll Oxóssi: threw the match Oxóssi: by himself Oxóssi: you're just bad, mate Oxóssi: you're an inting trolll Oxóssi: case in point Oxóssi: do we have a team? Oxóssi: why are they sitting in base? Oxóssi: And you're reported Oxóssi: trolling + inting Oxóssi: you're 0/7/7? Oxóssi: again, you're 0/7/7 Oxóssi: and have helped no one Oxóssi: i dont even have a team Oxóssi: I have no clue what we're even doing Oxóssi: Caitlyn has no health, and no one dives her Oxóssi: it Oxóssi: 's a joke Oxóssi: she's pn 10* health Oxóssi: and you're making winning plays Oxóssi: hence them walking into our base Oxóssi: can someone tell me what we're doing? Oxóssi: and how we have no towers 27 mins into the game? Oxóssi: you have 10 deaths and no kills? Oxóssi: how's that helping? Oxóssi: Caitltyn, are you a tank? Oxóssi: why are they so afraid of you? Post-Game Oxóssi: this game has way too many trolls Oxóssi: Soraka Oxóssi: you and kaisa did what? Oxóssi: besides talk? Oxóssi: We had no towers Oxóssi: no drags Oxóssi: no herald Oxóssi: you sat in base and farmed Oxóssi: you tried carrying who? Oxóssi: you didnt ven take a tower

Game 2 Pre-Game Oxóssi: I'd wager whoever im playing will get 2nd pick Oxóssi: seems to happen a lot Oxóssi: Yasuo Oxóssi: hoping someone dodges Oxóssi: their team is cancer In-Game Oxóssi: Uh oh Oxóssi: mid Oxóssi: not looking so good Oxóssi: ty Oxóssi: play safe, lux Oxóssi: Lux, stop Oxóssi: someone shove top Oxóssi: the lamest toon in the game Oxóssi: we're gonna throw Oxóssi: all good Oxóssi: have no clue what this team is even doing Oxóssi: securing no objectives Oxóssi: running around mid and jg blind Oxóssi: letting them split and sove waves Oxóssi: a joke Oxóssi: ngage Oxóssi: litrally thre this match away Oxóssi: my god Oxóssi: get out of the jg!!!!! Oxóssi: jesus christ Oxóssi: you run back in there and keep dying Oxóssi: yawn Oxóssi: so why are you by yourself? Oxóssi: answer that Oxóssi: why are you by yourself? Oxóssi: whateveer, hold this L Oxóssi: peace Oxóssi: You guys deserve the win Oxóssi: Hop you get it Oxóssi: Evelyn is a troll Oxóssi: to think Yorick startd 0-5 Oxóssi: that's how good this team is Oxóssi: smh Oxóssi: im reporting Lux Oxóssi: and evelyn Oxóssi: trolling Oxóssi: she's trolling Oxóssi: Like i said, they're trolls Oxóssi: smh Oxóssi: this team Oxóssi: we never even go after objectives Oxóssi: like, i called elder Oxóssi: i called baron Oxóssi: doesnt matter Oxóssi: go baron Oxóssi: baron Oxóssi: i hate this team Oxóssi: my versus my own team essentially Oxóssi: they dont help at all Oxóssi: just hang around the jg trolling and dying Oxóssi: I start Yorick 0-5, and what do they do? feed him Oxóssi: I take inhib and towers, what do they do? Oxóssi: nothing Oxóssi: well, die Oxóssi: told ya Oxóssi: i called baron bfore they inted Oxóssi: there goes our advantage Oxóssi: ggwp, i tried Oxóssi: you too, couldnt 1v9 Oxóssi: im reporting Oxóssi: hope you guys do too Post-Game Oxóssi: Reporting Lux and Evelynn for trolling and inting

Game 3 In-Game Oxóssi: i dont even ADC Oxóssi: =/ Oxóssi: .... Oxóssi: kayne bad Oxóssi: smh Oxóssi: idk what the eff you're doing Oxóssi: brought their jg to our lane Oxóssi: did nothing Oxóssi: duh, clown Oxóssi: it's called lane frreezing Oxóssi: easy ganks Oxóssi: for a good jg Oxóssi: he cnat watch a map? Oxóssi: all good Oxóssi: im done Oxóssi: you're bad Oxóssi: leave me be Oxóssi: Nasus, stay in your lane Oxóssi: man Oxóssi: worry about yourself Oxóssi: leave me alone Oxóssi: in team chat Oxóssi: lmao Oxóssi: did you see that? Oxóssi: Has my support cc'd all game? Oxóssi: nope Oxóssi: lol Oxóssi: oh, she's focusing you now lmao Oxóssi: Right lol Oxóssi: Like "oh, wait, maybe i should hit them" Oxóssi: curious why she waited till i died to focus you lol Oxóssi: Where's Lulu? Oxóssi: lol Oxóssi: ADC is useless without his or her team shrugs Oxóssi: ok Oxóssi: back up Oxóssi: tank dead Oxóssi: good play, Nasus Oxóssi: ? Oxóssi: It was a good play Oxóssi: everyone lost their lane Oxóssi: You were dominate though, Kayn Oxóssi: clearly Oxóssi: You did lose lane Oxóssi: hence their top having more towers than you Oxóssi: I said everyone Oxóssi: no?

35 Comments

GatekeeperTDSMar 31, 20197 votes

You're other thread is still there, and as I said in that one, you aren't the team captain, nobody is required to listen to your instructions or abuse. Stop goddamm typing and focus on yourself.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

And as I said in that one, your posts is exactly why I intend to no longer communicate with my teammates. Doing so does far more harm than good, while Riot doesn't care about the trolls and intentional feeders anyway.

Yi dies twice early, starts flaming me for it, finishes 0/10/10, and I'm punished because I replied in frustration. That's the toxic environment Riot has fostered in the name of fighting toxicity. Well done.

rujitraMar 31, 20196 votes

Riot didn't force you to be toxic to the other players. You say they fostered it, but in reality, you fostered it by being toxic.

You realize it someone is intentionally feeding they're looking to get a reaction from you? And when you flame them, you're giving them that reaction? So they're just going to keep trolling?

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

I realize that there are people that will rationalize an injustice no matter obvious or inane. If anything, I've noticed you are a specialist at that.

Toxicity is subjective(and avoidable via the mute button) by the way. Intentionally feeding is not.

rujitraMar 31, 20195 votes

Excuse me? Intentionally feeding is more subjective because you are attempting to get into the mind of someone else and determine intent. It's not enough that they fed, you have to prove that they did what they did for the sole purpose of intentionally feeding. That is not only extremely subjective, but very hard.

On the other hand, you harassing your teammates, blaming and flaming them, and hardly ever using chat for something useful? That's pretty clear.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

There's nothing subjective about routinely dying 10-15 times. As many players have shown before, you can troll and or intentionally feed hundreds of games, but so long as you avoid chat there's a good chance you'll also avoid discipline.

What's clear is that "toxicity" is subjective and avoidable, whereas dodging trolls and intentional feeders is not. What's also clear is that one of these things throws matches, ruining the experience of the remaining nine players, whereas a I player can simply turn off chat if he or she so chooses.

Oddly, RIot and its apologists care more about "toxic language", than a toxic playing environment.

rujitraMar 31, 20196 votes

No, there's not. But dying 10-15 times does not mean intentional feeding.

By the way, most players understand that you're going to win some games and lose some. Losing a game is part of playing a multiplayer competitive game. But being flamed is not. Likewise, you may not like a movie you paid to see. That's part of going to the movies though, so you don't throw a hissy fit about it if the movie didn't live up to your expectations. You still don't want to see someone flinging popcorn around or screaming during the movie.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

If you're a veteran account that hasn't learned that needlessly and repeatedly dying negatively affects your teams morale, as well as the outcome of matches, then it is intentional. Arguing otherwise nullifies the responsibility of players to learn how to properly play this game. If that responsibility doesn't exist, particularly in ranked, then Riot needs to stop selling LoL as a competitive e-sport. Because in no other competitive context, even down to the amateurs, are participants expected to suffer teammates that do not care about winning.

Players also understand the flaw and innate unfairness of Riot's disciplinary system. Losing a game is not the problem, it's losing via players that troll and intentionally feed that causes frustration amongst players that actually care about how their performance affects their teams.

Finally, your analogy is inappropriate because attending a movie isn't a competition. Rest assured, if a teammate in your local rec basketball game received a pass and immediately launchd the ball out of bounds, or ran it down the other side of the court to score in his own goal, he'd be immediately pulled from the game. The backlash this player would receive from teammates would be both expected and accepted.

rujitraMar 31, 20193 votes

You're literally saying that bad people should be punished just because they're bad.

Bad players will be ranked lower than better players. That's how it works.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

I'm literally saying that, if LoL is a competitive e-sport, you shouldn't allowed to repeatedly sabotage your own team.
Bad or good, players should be expected to play to win. Just like every other sport. Not playing to win, or not wanting to win, should disqualify a player from competing in ranked.

rujitraMar 31, 20193 votes

It's almost like Riot punishes players who are not playing to win or sabotaging their own team.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

If that were the case we wouldn't have documented cases of players trolling hundreds of matches before being flagged by Riot's disciplinary system.

It's almost like you care more about what players say, then how they act. And here I thought actions spoke louder than words.

rujitraMar 31, 20193 votes

How many of those cases exist? A couple?

How many trolls come here complaining about their correct punishments? Many more than a couple? How many trolls don't come complain about their punishments because they don't want to embarrass themselves? A lot?

How many murderers do the police miss and never catch? A few? Yet you still don't think they should let all thief's go because they can't catch all the murderers, right?

Nobody is perfect, and that doesn't make your behavior okay.

OxóssiApr 1, 20191 votes

The fact that it happens at all is problematic. Further, it's common knowledge that Riot's disciplinary system is markedly harsher on chat logs than it is on trolling, inting, and afker's.

Hardly anyone complains about being banned for trolling or intenting. Especially in contrast to the number of players that complain about chat based punishments.

The fact that your analogizing chat infractions with murder is a refection of the absurdly backwards disciplinary system Riot has created.

rujitraApr 1, 20192 votes

{quoted}

The fact that it happens at all is problematic. Further, it's common knowledge that Riot's disciplinary system is markedly harsher on chat logs than it is on trolling, inting, and afker's.

It is not common knowledge. It may be your belief, but most people realize that it is not harsher. And in fact, that is blatantly false - chat restrictions are not issued for trolling and usually require 2-3 games at least before they are issued, whereas one game of confirmed trolling results in a 14 day ban off the bat. But yeah, let’s do away with police. They can’t catch all the people who steal something, so we shouldn’t let them give tickets for speeding anymore.

Hardly anyone complains about being banned for trolling or intenting. Especially in contrast to the number of players that complain about chat based punishments.

Yes. I agree. Have you considered why this is? Hint: Most people who troll know they were trolling and don’t try to game the system by claiming it was false (also they don’t want to get embarrassed).

The fact that your analogizing chat infractions with murder is a refection of the absurdly backwards disciplinary system Riot has created.

Replace murder with any crime you want. The police don’t catch everyone, so we shouldn’t let them police. That’s your argument. It’s called an analogy. You may wish to look up the definition of this.

GatekeeperTDSMar 31, 20194 votes

Let him be, rujitra. You're going to drive yourself nuts trying to convince him of anything.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

When you have to lean on fallacies because your logic isn't up to par, you've lost.

Nothing's occurred over this discussion that's even remotely problematic, so stop trying to quell it.

Bishasaurus FlexMar 31, 20193 votes

Well deserved. Constant BM, light flame, nothing constructive said in chat. Your last game isn't the problem, it's the previous 2.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

Does another competitive exist where getting upset within reason is disallowed? For example, I obviously can't punch my teammate in the mouth in a pickup game after a bad play, but I can certainly voice my displeasure with his decision making if it's hurting the team. Meanwhile, if a player in the same context were intentionally sabotaging his side he wouldn't be allowed to play anymore.

rujitraMar 31, 20194 votes

You can disagree. You can constructively comment on their performance.

You go join a pickup team and start harassing or flaming your teammates, see how fast they tell you to get lost, or you get banned from whatever rec center you're playing at.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

You'll be more than harassed or flamed if you intentionally throw even rec games. You'd be disallowed from competing at all, and those teammates that were intolerant of said anti-competitive behavior wouldn't be punished for it. Additionally, banter and high emotions are accepted as core components of competitive sports.

Drop the apologists act and join us in reality, mate.

rujitraMar 31, 20193 votes

No, you don't get to determine that. You're allowed to go get the tournament official or the rec staff and ask them to investigate. You don't get to take matters into your own hands.

That is reality, even if you conveniently forget it or choose to ignore it.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

I can literally link youtube clips of players getting into it without consequence in practically every professional sport:

NBA: Players talking trash to one another. Almost always involves curse words, insults, flame, etc. NFL: Players getting into it after practically every play.
NHL: Fights MLB: Bench clearing brawls Soccer: Banter, fouls, physical confrontations, etc.

All of these incidents occur even at the amateur level of the aforementioned sports. And it is largely accepted, expected, and condoned do to the competitive context. On the other hand, do you know what all of these sports have in common? An Intolerance for anti-competitive behavior.

But you have that "Specialist" tag, so I'm sure you'll continue to act obtuse in the name of defending Riot's contradictory policies.

GatekeeperTDSMar 31, 20192 votes

You can be frustrated, but if you express that frustration in the wrong way, you're quickly going to find yourself not welcome in those pickup games. You're not the captain nor the coach.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

I don't know what sports you follow, but even professional matches get heated. Sometimes even amongst players of the same team. Generally speaking, unless it boils over into a physical altercation or is aimed at an official, it occurs without consequence because it's handlers understand that emotions run high in a competitive context.

On the other hand, you'll never see players intentionally troll or throw even pickup games because the consequences are immediate. You'd be pushed off your team and barred from playing.

fatherdariusApr 1, 20191 votes

You've obviously never watched NASCAR.

I've seen a driver force another driver off the track or into a wall, purely for revenge.

And even a mean word can get a driver fined or suspended.

R107 GamesMar 31, 20192 votes

Agreed.

Riot's intentions to promote communication backfire when they make the IFS strict, meaning noone is willing to type when they could possibly be punished over minor/trivial things.

It just doesn't make sense; things like critisism, sarcasm, banter etc. should not be punishable in a competitive environment

ModRowanstarMar 31, 20191 votes

Mocking others for their level, score or rank is not proper or acceptable. Just ignore the trolls.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

So I'm supposed to care about winning, but not care about players intentionally trolling and or intentionally feeding? Am I to have no emotional investment in my matches?

GatekeeperTDSMar 31, 20191 votes

Just like any competitive environment, yes you're supposed to care about winning. You're also supposed to be OK with losing. A team is going to lose every match, whether it's League or football.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

The argument isn't whether or not someone is supposed to be ok with losing, but whether or not they're supposed to be ok with suffering trolls, intentional feeders, and players that do not care about the outcome of matches. And in that context, League is not like any other competitive environment. It is unique in it's willingness to enable trolls under the guise of fighting "toxicity".

GatekeeperTDSMar 31, 20192 votes

You change what you're arguing about in every different reply.

Look, here's the bottom line. You gut punished. It doesn't feel good, we understand that. Punishments aren't supposed to feel good. If you don't like the rules and you don't want to accept the consequences of your actions, you have 3 choices here -

1.) Stop playing and take your time and money elsewhere. 2.) Play out your chat restriction and then follow the rules even if you don't like them. 3.) Continue to do what you're doing and get removed from the game permanently.

OxóssiMar 31, 20191 votes

Point out an example. I'll wait(you wont, or cant rather, because you're leaning on an ad hominem).

I don't think you work for Riot, so why have you adopted the role of lecturer? Your tendency to derail discussion because you dislike the opinion of the person you're arguing with is very toxic.

GatekeeperTDSMar 31, 20191 votes

I...don't think you know what an ad hominem is. But ironically -

Your tendency to derail discussion because you dislike the opinion of the person you're arguing with is very toxic.

You used one. And now I'm done replying to you. Have a great day!

KFCeytronMar 31, 20191 votes

You spend 100% of your time screaming at your team. You insult, flame, harass, and spam garbage at them. Endless toxicity. Agree with your punishment or don't, but if you don't change your behavior you'll get more of them.