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Riot need to stop to invest against toxicity and start creating system against those guys!

1995 2017RiP Eva··1 votes·593 views

Edit: i like how people downvote the post...its like they dont want a system that punish trolls/afkers/feeders but only want a system that allow them to continues doing that..hmmm weird right? i would have though that people want a system to have better games but i guess they only want to be victims ok then!

Now hear me out here i dont say toxicity is good! BUT there is a big BUT here and that is that the toxic person have a counter to his toxicity we just mute him! and he is gone

Plus a toxic person most of the times is someone who want to win hard and he is upset that someone feed (i have been in that situation we were all having negative scores and this guy was playing his top lane perfctly so he got upset and he was toxic to us) YEAH IT WAS MY FAULT that i was playing poorly ok so i understand him!

But anyway ofcourse we have others who curse because reasons but all of them already have been solved!

Now i will put down 3 categories that riot does NOTHING ABOUT

1-The AFK in side lanes guy!

This person would be afk he would nto say a a single word in the chat he would just be afk in side lanes never help in team fights or doing anything "But Alex he may just splitpush what you mean afk"

A splitpusher my fellow dude is someone that would help the team

An example would be! A dragon fight start the enemy tiop laner would TP to help the enemy team our top laner would not do anything he would just stay top "farming and pushing" but in reality you can see him that he just dosent care and he still havent got the enmy second top turret or bot turret and he is pretty much upset and afk but slowly pushing and dying again and again (yeah those kind of typers always have some negative score like 1/10 or something after they feeed the firtst blook then they proccess to just feed and afk in side lanes) so you know play the game 6vs4 because our laner is afk and the enemy laner not only easily stop his "split Push" but he is helping in team fights too because if someone doing a split push and not trolling wouldnt die again and again and the enemy team would need to send 2 people to kill him or catch him!

So its obvious that he is afk so what you do you report him! Guess what nothing HAPPEN to him because riot would go "oh well bad game" NO HE WAS AFK IN SIDE LANES

And if someone is "toxic to him" say to him "DUDE WTF ARE YOU DOING YOU PATHETIC TROLL" (I have see it) this guy would get insta banned

2-The feeder troll

This person is the type of guy who pick a champion that can be played AD or AP (he didnt enter the game with that mentality) but stay with me! So the game start this guy OBVIOUS buy an AD items but when he start dying he starts saying "omg the jungler never gank screw this"

And then you see that guy buying AP items selling his AD items and start feeding BUT he dosent go in and die he just troll build and die in side lanes (see example 1) and he type in the chat "oh well i die xd" and he type that on all chat trying to be funny or saying "damn dude you outplayed me" when he was just standing there dyinging doing nothing so the enemy team asks "dude wtf why you troll" and he say "no i dont troll i just have a bad game as AP X champion)

I have see it that too^

So the guy who would be again upset about this behavior the guy would get banned for "toxicity" but the person who feed and destroty the game he would get NOTHING

3-The afk jungler Now as a jungler i know the toxicity we get about "omg our jungler is bad he is afk farming" but not this is not the case here I am talking about the type of guy who plays normally at the first then he goes in and turret dive alone for no reason die and says "omg wtf dude why you dont help omg what ever" the ally would say "well it was not a good idea to turret dive a malp at lvl 3" the jungler say "yeah what ever accept it from now on"

So you say yeah what ever they have their argument this guy continues play all cool

NOPE this guy from now spend the rest of the time just farming the jungle ignore everything even if a fight happens next to him he will just pass by and go to other camp if all camps are clear he just sit and wait till the camps are back and he does do nothing he is his way of afk

And i have saw it that too!!

So Riot spend money hire people with PHD and stuff to solve the toxicity problem THE TOXICITY problem is already solved! It called mute

Now we need to find a way to stop THIS TYPE OF TROLLING

Plus if you check my match history there ia teemo player i will not name him but he have more than 6 games against me or in my team that he always troll build and goes 0/15 and stuff i have reported him 6 times in the ROW among with other players that reported him and he is still going unbanned

This person have destroy 6 games in the row this mean he destroy the gaming and the fun of 54 people (6x9) and he still goes unbanned

Now imagine a guy who was toxic in 2 games in the row to ONE person i have see it happening they play together cursing bla bla next game again together shitstorm again yeah what ever this perosn would get insta banned

If you dont see anything wrong with that behavior of riot and how the system work then what ever

13 Comments

Kei1434 votes

Hmmm...

So much misinformation in this post, I don't know where to start...

Especially hard when one is on mobile.

1995 2017RiP Eva1 votes

what you mean? all the examples and stuff i say was from real games!!

All of them do happen

And even if you say "rito do ban those people"

I gave you the example of 6 reports in the row from more than one person (lets say i am just a troll who report others) many others report the same guy and i still havent got any notification or anything and this person still plays the game!!

So how is that misinformation? and that just one example i use 4 all of them by real gameplay

Warlord Scrap1 votes

Because were automated system or manual it harder to detect trolls from bad players unlesa there intenionally trolling.

Kei1431 votes

so let's bust a few myths, and yes, it does involve "riot does punish them".

So let's get over your AFKing points first, AFKing (in the form of not contributing) will get you leaver bustered.

Buying troll items is also punishable as a form of griefing. (typically manually reviewed, and a 14-day ban).

You also won't get instabanned for the same guy reporting you in 2 games.

Not saying that what you are seeing didn't happen, but the system does a horrible job in telling you it is working. It only tells you someone got punished when the game you reported the person is was the game that got them punished. So if they go play another game, you won't see the ntofication.

Keep in mind that Manual reviews also don't give you any notification.

In regarding to 2 games of being reported and getting instabanned, there has to be a history of toxicity consistently. If you were only report for the 2 most recent games within the past 100 games, those 2 reports won't do anything to you. However, if you were reported every other game in your past 100 games and then get reported twice consecutively, you'll probably get punished.

Your new post also tells me that you don't understand that the number of reports within a game don't contribute to getting someone punished faster. A report tells the system to check for toxicity, and if they found it, it will contribute that game to the punishment case. Multiple reports will just send the same game back into case and doesn't increase the "games reported" count.

The system is also capable of filtering out false reports, for those that decide to be trigger happy on the report system.

Finally, your title is suggesting that Riot isn't doing anything about toxicity. From what we gather from Rioters in the behavioral team, they do have a few things they are working on. I may even be complete for all we know, but they have said many times that they are currently focused on getting the new client up and running smoothly, so we probably won't see the new features until the new client is done.

Perosnally, I wish for something similar to this. But probably on demand instead of a monthly thing.

Now one can argue if the leaver buster is not a good enough punishment for those that AFK. Especially for the chronic AFKers. We can also argue the effectiveness of Feeder Buster (the teemo troll that you mentioned).

But before you make those arguements, make sure you are properly informed in regards to how the system works.

1995 2017RiP Eva1 votes

you all say the same thing

"Its hard to detect the trolls"

Well that my point with this post that riot need to start invest more to create a system against the trolls!! but riot keep investing to go against toxicity when toxicity is already SOLVED

But you all say how hard is to punish trolls but in the same line you say that i am wrong asking for a system like that [zombie-brand-mindblown]

DrCyanide1 votes

Well that my point with this post that riot need to start invest more to create a system against the trolls!! but riot keep investing to go against toxicity when toxicity is already SOLVED

Instead of looking at "how much has Riot done?" look at "how much more can actually be done?"

Improvements in Language Detection/punishment are relatively cheep to make. There's entire companies dedicated to Natural Language Processing (aka: converting how humans speak and making machines understand it), incorporating their latest developments and adding things that weren't in the system before isn't hard. Riot could have 2-3 people working on maintaining a system like that, who do that in addition to validating existing punishments.

In contrast, there's not much left to safely do with troll detection, because "troll" is a very, very loosely defined. Is this guy actually trying to sabotage their team, are they unintentionally hurting their team, or is the report in error? How can you check? A Silver level player, playing to the best of their ability, can easily be mistaken as a Troll if their teammates are all Diamond.

Riot's emphasized over and over that their big focus with a troll detection system is to avoid false positives. A system that punishes 99 trolls but 1 innocent player has way too high of a false positive hit rate. It would need to be improved to where false positives are in the neighborhood of 0.1% or 0.01% (around the Language system's accuracy) before it would be considered acceptable. But how do you design a system that can keep up with new ways to Troll and tell the difference between non-trolling stats.

Most humans can't even tell if Singed players are trolling or not, how are you going to teach a machine to do that?

Mus2 votes

{quoted}

Hmmm...

So much misinformation in this post, I don't know where to start...

Especially hard when one is on mobile.

[zombie-brand-mindblown] My brain doesn't know where to start

Touch My Box1 votes

I agree entirely, but Riot don't care. Only naughty wards cop a ban,

deathgod51 votes

Regarding your claims of toxicity control.

  1. The toxicity system is pretty much 100 percent automatic. The amount of time invested into this system is way lower then people think, the system is pretty much the same system as added in 2015(I think it was introduced in 2015) only some curse words get added in and some toxic sentences needed to be added. There is money and time that gets invested into anti toxicity, but it is not as much as you seem to think it is.

  2. It is true you can mute toxic players, however It is proven that teams with players that are toxic have a higher loss rate. This is because, even if you are smart enough to mute, many teammates get distracted and start flame wars against him. Extremely toxic players lower your win chance almost as much as many other ways of feeding.

  3. As a company, it is way worse to be known as a toxic community then anything else. T

As far as your examples are concerned:

  1. this is 100 percent somebody that can annoy you, but this could also just be a tactical disagreement in the eyes of a system. If somebody believes his best chances are with farming and you can't prove that he is malicious(because he is not inting or anything) it is impossible for a system to know the difference between an afk farmer and a splitpusher.

  2. The troll system they currently have is shit, I heard they are working on a better system(that checks builds and punishes people who are not moving during fights), but that could just be gossip. Also in lower levels of elo(think bronze 5) it would become extremely hard to discern a troll from a inexperienced player. I am with you on this one.

  3. Again this one is almost impossible to prove. When is somebody afk jungling and when is somebody power farming to catch up after a failed gank. I have had games where I lost early on as a jungler and went powerfarming until level 9 so I could get back into the game.

For as far as I am concerned, I mostly agree with the idea that the current troll detection software is not doing it's job. I also think that for players that leave the game as often as some players do, the punishments should be more harsh.

I don't think that the reason they haven't implemented a better anti troller software system is because they focus too much on anti toxicity. I think the reason they don't do this is because if you implement a too strict anti troll system, people that are not intending to troll will get screwed over.

1995 2017RiP Eva1 votes

Well it seem that the whole problem is that "well what happen in lower elo that people are just playing that way that look like a troll"

Ok well in that case its pretty easy to put categories

From Diamond and higher the gameplay and how a player must play its pretty obvious if someone afk in side lanes for splitpushing the system would know how a splitpusher actually play and this person didnt play according to the game! in lower elos the system can be adjsusted for them that an easy solution!

So the people who are not intending to troll wouldnt get punish! sure its kinda hard atm to create a system like that but they can doit

They fight with toxicity for 9 years now and never create a system that attack the trolls and the feeders and all of them

And i stand by my words that i have never have a real problem with a toxic person! NEVER and i have play in all elos from bronze with a funny account up to diamond 1 (i havent got higher) and i have never have any issure with a toxic person because simple i didnt care and i play on EUNE the most commond word here is "kys and get cancer" but still i dont care because his words dont destroy my gameplay sure its retarded to watch a guy spamming the chat cursing but i can stop that

Now i do care if someone destroy my game and i have no way to stop it that what i say here riot spend 9 years to create a system that is so easily and dosent really effect the outcome of the game and they never spend a good quality time to actually solve the problem of the things that actually effect the outcome of the game!!

Now you may say "well toxic players do effect the outcome of the game data shows that toxic players are have more lost games"

NO from my view toxic players are not toxic when the game is win they are toxic when the game is already lost

When someone say to me lets use me as an example "Omg you pathetic %%%% jungler kys and get cancer" (because he think that i should gank his lane which is not something you need to do you focus bot lane in order they may do something this guy its a lost cause already he die 5 times in 4 minutes new world record) is because he is already 0-8 in top lane so the game already goes for lost so that how the data shows that the data shows "toxic players have more losts than possitive players" its not 100% true but in most cases that how it is

deathgod51 votes

They fight with toxicity for 9 years now and never create a system that attack the trolls and the feeders and all of them

ok first off, it is a bad system, but there is an anti troll system in place. evidence(I have an ): http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/sTTFopn7-banned-14-days-for-feeding http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/Ats0ZuBw-banned-for-intentionally-feeding http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/em3VcKYi-i-got-someone-banned-for-international-feeding

It is just that it is not the best system. Making a system that effectively knows the difference between feeding and inting is nearly impossible.

From Diamond and higher the gameplay and how a player must play its pretty obvious if someone afk in side lanes for splitpushing the system would know how a splitpusher actually play and this person didnt play according to the game! in lower elos the system can be adjsusted for them that an easy solution!

In diamond that might work, but in lower elo's like even gold, it is not strange to be in a game with a trynd that thinks that being on toplane is enough to win him the game. So no I don't think it is easily adjusted for lower elo's. It is actually nearly impossible.

And i stand by my words that i have never have a real problem with a toxic person! NEVER and i have play in all elos from bronze with a funny account up to diamond 1 (i havent got higher) and i have never have any issure with a toxic person because simple i didnt care and i play on EUNE the most commond word here is "kys and get cancer" but still i dont care because his words dont destroy my gameplay sure its retarded to watch a guy spamming the chat cursing but i can stop that

Lets make this clear, I 100 percent don't care what some random guy on the internet says to me. It is however so that I have had entire teams stopping to type at eachother after only the toplaner lost and got salty. From what I see toxicity does help trowing games. From riot's point of view they have also seen people leave because of the horrible community.

Now you may say "well toxic players do effect the outcome of the game data shows that toxic players are have more lost games"

NO from my view toxic players are not toxic when the game is win they are toxic when the game is already lost

I am sorry, but you could say the same things for all your examples, 1,2 and 3 generally occur when somebody is losing. I generally don't see people afk jungle in games they think they can win(and 1 and 2 I just usually never see actually).

In conclusion, I don't think that the current feeder detection is good(it's shit) and I can see that improvements are needed. But the toxicity systems are in place for a reason as well, both for the positive image that riot games wants to send out and the possibility that toxic players help lose games. I however don't see why you think that the anti toxicity and anti feeder systems are in competition with each other, since the current anti toxic system pretty much does his own thing.

Kitty Cat Tosha1 votes

Toxic people do NOT want to win. Maybe they want to at the start of the game, but the moment they start dragging everyone down with their verbal vomit, they've given up.

If you knew how much flaming decreases team morale and your chances to win, you'd not say such nonsense as "toxic people want to win".

1995 2017RiP Eva1 votes

toxic people do want to win like every person who play the game!!

Toxic people (and look about what toxic people i talk) i talk about the ones who still play but they get frustated when the whole team having huge negative scores

now i am not say his behavior is justify but i will take a person who just curse me because i am 0/4 but he is doing good and try to win over a person who is afk/trolling/feeding because THAT person want to LOSE the game!!

The toxic player you talk is the tilted one who have already give up and the moment someone dies he goes on rampage cursing and just give up! there is a difference! and you have the way to stop the cursing! do you have a way to stop a feeder/troll/afker? NOPE so what system do we need to imporve? against toxicity or against the other 3? if you want against toxicity then NEVER come here and say "omg the game is full with trolls" because you WANTED from riot to still imporve a system that is already good against toxicity but you dont want them to create a system to punish those other 3

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