The summoner code is disgustingly flawed

yamimosh·Jun 26, 2018·3 votes·1,611 views

I can't take it anymore. Riot, you are not people's parents. You're not this higher authority that chooses how people should and shouldn't act. You made a fucking video game. I honestly think you guys have forgotten that league; when you take away lcs and w/e bullshit you want to send this game into, its just a fucking video game.

I got a 9 game chat restriction, something not even that big and i understand that, but the reasoning is absurd

I was held hostage in a ranked game by my brand support who afked the lane level 2 and refused to surrender, proceeded to flame everyone in chat, suicide multiple times, and was one of the most horrid games of league i've played recently.

I know the code of conduct, I realize youre not supposed to fight toxic with toxic, but it's flawed and stupid and counterproductive. Overall, riot, you are wrong

i know this may hurt to hear? especially with how amazing your constant balance decisions are and your inability to acknowledge half your fucking champ roster while you pump more of them out like a french whore, but you are incredibly wrong on this policy.

there are literally people out there ruining games and making it miserable, and please understand the intensity of that word. It is absolutely miserable to have a support brand afk at tower, shit talk the entire team, proceed to roam and run under tower while doing everything in his power to hold 4 other players hostage for 20 minutes. 20 MINUTES! AT THE VERY LEAST! do you understand that?!?!?! no other fucking game punishes the victim besides you.

What are our options? mute all? sure that works, then hes not yelling, but i dont think muting him stops him from running under tower until the enemy mid is 20/0.

surrender? lucky for us 4 people cant pass a ff vote until 20 min. The games obviously lost, and even if it isnt, who in their right mind would want to scratch and claw their way through a 4v6 while your state of mind is being incredibly tested.

Afk? well sure, id love to just fucking leave, but thanks to riots incredible leaverbuster, im going to be penalized for someone elses actions.

You have done literally nothing to support passionate victims, people that truly care about your game, and assist them with this issue. It's unbelievable, its been years. actual years of degenerate fucking apes holding people hostage in a game because they find enjoyment out of it, and as long as they dont say something toxic, theyre gauranteed to do it a few more times at the very least.

And even if they do get banned, they make or buy a new account and ruin your new player experience.

Im beyond frustrated. How can it possibly make sense to punish the victim for being passionate. What other options do i have besides chatting to him. /muteall is not a viable option. it is not. So many of your players care so deeply about this game that when this happens, we can't be quiet about it. Are they horrible people? of course not. they're responding to being forced to play 20-30 minutes of pure misery.

You refuse to acknowledge that this is a problem, that players who are victims are penalized for nothing other than being passionate. Im so fed up with this issue being around for 8 years and noone admitting that the current policies are an absolute joke

inb4 people start reciting the summoner code. I know the code, there's just a ton wrong with it.

27 Comments

ModThe DjinnJun 26, 201810 votes

{quoted}You're not this higher authority that chooses how people should and shouldn't act.

Private companies have always been allowed to dictate what behaviors are and aren't acceptable in their privately owned physical or virtual space. They're not saying what you can and can't do -- they're saying what behaviors will have consequences when exhibited on their company space.

...its just a fucking video game.

We all know this, as does Riot. The thing about a game is that playing them with a bunch of jerks just isn't as much fun for most people.

there are literally people out there ruining games and making it miserable, and please understand the intensity of that word. It is absolutely miserable to have a support brand afk at tower, shit talk the entire team, proceed to roam and run under tower while doing everything in his power to hold 4 other players hostage for 20 minutes. 20 MINUTES! AT THE VERY LEAST! do you understand that?!?!?! no other fucking game punishes the victim besides you.

Riot doesn't punish victims -- they punish aggressors. That said, a victim becomes an aggressor when he or she chooses an aggressive response over ignoring, muting, or -- in the worst of situations -- just leaving the game quietly.

What are our options? mute all? sure that works, then hes not yelling, but i dont think muting him stops him from running under tower until the enemy mid is 20/0.

Nor does flaming him in response. Muting him, however, means you aren't violating the rules yourself.

Afk? well sure, id love to just fucking leave, but thanks to riots incredible leaverbuster, im going to be penalized for someone elses actions.

Temporarily, and in a way that, while frustrating, is recoverable.

Im beyond frustrated. How can it possibly make sense to punish the victim for being passionate. What other options do i have besides chatting to him.

Muting him.
Simply NOT chatting.
Moving the chat off the screen.
Leaving the game.
Responding in a non-antagonistic, non-insulting manner.

yamimoshJun 26, 20181 votes

Muting him doesn't solve anything. Hes still ruining a game. Not chatting is difficult for many people. It's our personalities. We speak up. moving chat is the same as muting, doesnt fix that 4 people are being held hostage in a game for 20-30 minutes because of one miserable fuck who is getting his rocks off from it Leaving the game will get me banned anyway, they've even said so. so thats clearly not a viable option Responding feels alot better than being forced to sit there and take it? are you kidding me?

The point im trying to make is the summoner code is supposed to apply to all players. When someone diliberately take actions that prove he is not playing league of legends anymore, why should the summoner code protect him?

ModThe DjinnJun 26, 20186 votes

{quoted}Muting him doesn't solve anything. Hes still ruining a game.

Flaming him doesn't solve anything. He's still ruining a game. It just means you're ALSO going to face punishment.

Not chatting is difficult for many people. It's our personalities. We speak up.

By that "it's in our personalities" argument, trolling or insulting could be in his. At some point you have to learn to adapt to the rules, even though I know that can be rough.

moving chat is the same as muting, doesnt fix that 4 people are being held hostage in a game for 20-30 minutes because of one miserable fuck who is getting his rocks off from it

Again, firing back at him doesn't fix that either. It just means that now TWO people are violating the rules.

The point im trying to make is the summoner code is supposed to apply to all players. When someone diliberately take actions that prove he is not playing league of legends anymore, why should the summoner code protect him?

The Summoner's Code doesn't apply only to behavior TOWARDS players -- it applies to behavior all players are supposed to show to everyone, regardless of player status. It is how a player is expected to present themselves, regardless of their surrounding environment.

ChermorgJun 26, 20185 votes

Because your chat does not just affect him, it affects the entire game - both players and winning/losing.

HalcyonDwellerJun 26, 20189 votes

League is a game, people play it to have fun. They don't play it to have someone rage at them about how worthless they are.

Sorry dude but that's just never going to be an acceptable behavior, in league or out of it.

Riot should try harder to separate casual players from competitive players, but the fact remains, raging at people is never okay anyways.

yamimoshJun 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

League is a game, people play it to have fun. They don't play it to have someone rage at them about how worthless they are.

Sorry dude but that's just never going to be an acceptable behavior, in league or out of it.

Riot should try harder to separate casual players from competitive players, but the fact remains, raging at people is never okay anyways.

see this i dont understand. I get what youre saying, you shouldnt ever rage at players, and i agree 100%. I wouldnt ever rage at someone obviously trying but having a bad game, or someone toxic that at least wants to win.

What i dont understand, is why someone can afk in base, do nothing but shit talk everyone and run down a lane feeding, refusing to actually exit the game, and still be considered a player? Hes already proven he isnt playing league anymore, hes playing his own sadistic hostage situation game. So why should the summoner code (meant to prevent toxicity towards league of legends players) apply to someone who has clearly given up their player status.

ModThe DjinnJun 26, 20185 votes

{quoted}What i dont understand, is why someone can afk in base, do nothing but shit talk everyone and run down a lane feeding, refusing to actually exit the game, and still be considered a player? Hes already proven he isnt playing league anymore, hes playing his own sadistic hostage situation game. So why should the summoner code (meant to prevent toxicity towards league of legends players) apply to someone who has clearly given up their player status.

Because that person is a part of the League community until such time as they get banned (albeit likely quickly with that behavior), and the Summoner's Code is how to act when playing League, not how to act only to other players. You can actually face punishment for insulting/flaming/using derogatory language at people not in the game at all -- in short, just be friendly and respectful to people, period.

yamimoshJun 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=li6d7mLZ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-26T21:01:45.106+0000)

Because that person is a part of the League community until such time as they get banned (albeit likely quickly with that behavior), and the Summoner's Code is how to act when playing League, not how to act only to other players. You can actually face punishment for insulting/flaming/using derogatory language at people not in the game at all -- in short, just be friendly and respectful to people, period.

Theyre not playing league anymore though! I'm not going to be friendly to people that are abusing 4 other players. No. thats wrong. I realize thats the code, but thats wrong. In what world should i accept that i should treat him like an actual league of legends player when hes doing nothing but harrassing 4 other people?

ModThe DjinnJun 26, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Theyre not playing league anymore though! I'm not going to be friendly to people that are abusing 4 other players. No. thats wrong. I realize thats the code, but thats wrong. In what world should i accept that i should treat him like an actual league of legends player when hes doing nothing but harrassing 4 other people?

No one is saying you have to be friendly. They are saying you cannot violate the summoner's code in your own behavior towards that individual. Basically, someone else breaking the rules of the expected behavior towards others does not give you a free pass to do the same to them.

As long as the option to simply not insult someone else is available, and insulting someone else earns punishment, you will be punished for insulting someone else. For someone who chooses not to engage in toxic banter, your actions have also just made the game twice as bad, is now there are two people trading insults and barbs at each other rather than one person just ranting in to avoid. In effect, by responding to toxicity with toxicity you become toxic

zPOOPzJun 26, 20182 votes

You don't have to be friendly to that player or anyone else. You just need to be at the very least neutral to everyone, including trolls/afkers/ragers/inters. Neutral consists of not saying anything, not retaliating, not flaming, not raging at anyone. You are welcome to and should report such person after game, but you should not throw flame back (that will go below neutral and into toxic territory).

No one ask you to smile and take the trolling. You are asked not to flame or retaliate against the troll.

Mute, report, move on.

HalcyonDwellerJun 26, 20182 votes

{quoted}

What i dont understand, is why someone can afk in base, do nothing but shit talk everyone and run down a lane feeding, refusing to actually exit the game, and still be considered a player? Hes already proven he isnt playing league anymore, hes playing his own sadistic hostage situation game. So why should the summoner code (meant to prevent toxicity towards league of legends players) apply to someone who has clearly given up their player status.

That's the thing though, they can't just do that. If they do that and you report them, it will catch up to them and they will be banned from the game.

As for why the summoner's code still applies, there are a few reasons. I'll share a few that I'm aware of:

Sometimes people misjudge other players, maybe you wouldn't, but others would. It's possible to mistakenly think someone is trolling and then choose to flame them because "they deserve it." But what if they don't deserve it? Then someone just said a bunch of awful shit to them and made them feel miserable when they didn't deserve that at all. Because of how easy it is for people to misjudge, and because of how far people are willing to go when they feel so vindictive, Riot creates general rules against acting upon one's own negative judgement of others. The point is that we are not the judges, jury, and executioner for trolls. Riot is.
In cases where players are genuinely trolling or raging out, responding to them (however satisfying it may be) will only encourage or escalate their behavior. A rager will only become more angry and will likely just rage harder. And a troll will see that what they did was effective at upsetting you and so your reactions will only make them want to do it more. In an effort to keep you from feeding into their behavior, Riot doesn't want you talking to them.
Even if a player completely deserves it, and even if responding didn't encourage them to continue acting that way, there are 3 other people on the team (and 5 more on the enemy team if you use all chat) who have to bear witness to your reaction to the aforementioned troll. You might feel like it's perfectly fair to spew as much vitriol as you can at the person. And maybe you're right to want to do that, it would be righteous after all. But nobody else should have to see that stuff. chances are if you're trying to hurt someone with your words, you're going to be saying some pretty awful stuff that is very offensive and hurtful to some people, maybe even hate speech that would make certain groups of people (such as particular races, religions, or sexual orientations) feel unwelcome in the game environment.

I hope this helps you to understand some of the underlying reasons as to why Riot punishes us for reacting to trolls. Let me know if you have other questions I'm happy to discuss this further.

Imperial PandaaJun 26, 20185 votes

Says:

Riot, you are not people's parents. You're not this higher authority that chooses how people should and shouldn't act.

And then complains that Riot should do more to choose how people act.

Zombie GerbilJun 26, 20184 votes

Actually, they are the higher authority when it comes to this game. They own your account. You are only PRIVILEGED to be here. What they do and say goes, your only role is to abide by the rules you agreed to. You're getting the penalties because you have no self-control, no common courtesy, and no empathy for other players.

There's nothing wrong with the system. The only problem is the players who don't want to take responsibility for their own actions because they hate the fact that they cannot say or do what they want without facing the consequences. Yes, we all know the internet is your safeguard, but it doesn't make you any less responsible for your actions.

We all know this is a video game. And it's meant to be enjoyed and entertain us. That's the whole point. There's nothing fun about having assholes in this game. There's nothing good about their presence. That's what a video game is meant to be. Fun. League is a competitive fun game that players tend to take too seriously nowadays, and Riot's system is reminding them, regardless if they want to believe it or not, that this is a video game, and you are here to have fun. So don't let your attitude ruin other's people fun.

Riot doesn't seek the victims. They root out the entire issue. People think "defending" themselves is okay, because they didn't start the flaming. But really it's the exact same thing as continuing it as the other one started it. Riot gets rid of not only the source but the growth of it. If someone continues to be toxic even if they're "defending" themselves, expect to be treated as the issue.

Mute the player. Don't like it, then don't play the game.

Warlord RhinarkJun 26, 20183 votes

I know the code of conduct, I realize youre not supposed to fight toxic with toxic, but it's flawed and stupid and counterproductive.

Fighting Toxicity back with Toxicity is even more flawed and stupid and counterproductive.

yamimoshJun 26, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=li6d7mLZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-26T20:49:45.090+0000)

Fighting Toxicity back with Toxicity is even more flawed and stupid and counterproductive.

It doesnt matter if its stupid, what other option do we have? any other game i can just leave. someones being a dick, ill just leave and start a new game. This one? no. Then thats toxic too. so im forced to play something that is miserable, and i cant speak up about it?

Warlord RhinarkJun 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It doesnt matter if its stupid, what other option do we have? any other game i can just leave. someones being a dick, ill just leave and start a new game. This one? no. Then thats toxic too. so im forced to play something that is miserable, and i cant speak up about it?

Exactly.

KaiokoJun 26, 20182 votes

Your chat log speaks for itself as do your responses to this thread. Having a chat filter does not give you the right to write the things you did.

And yes, Riot can create whatever rules they want to their game simply because it is THEIR game. You accept to follow them -- if you don't like them you have the right to find something else to play.

MagicFlyingLlamaJun 26, 20181 votes

Logs or gtfo.

yamimoshJun 26, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Logs or gtfo.

they didnt give me the log, i already sent in a support ticket to get it.

ArammusJun 26, 20181 votes

log out of the client and log in again. there should be logs.

gl with the support LOOL

yamimoshJun 26, 20181 votes

Game 1 In-Game yamimosh: you picked a bad champ yamimosh: wtf yamimosh: are you doing yamimosh: holy shit yamimosh: youre a monkey yamimosh: brand yamimosh: is literally afk yamimosh: gg yamimosh: no he was sitting at tower a%%%er eating a lux bind yamimosh: didnt get any xp yamimosh: then just leaves yamimosh: bot otwers already gone yamimosh: can we report this fucking dude? yamimosh: no dont come anywhere near this lane yamimosh: this is done yamimosh: dont yamimosh: go yamimosh: mid yamimosh: or top yamimosh: and ge tthem ahead yamimosh: im already out of the game yamimosh: because of this dude yamimosh: why... yamimosh: what did i do to deserve this yamimosh: report this dude please yamimosh: youre sitting at tower yamimosh: and lost us a level 2 advantage yamimosh: please dont troll yamimosh: im already pissed, id rather not say something thatll get me banned yamimosh: i didnt flame him at all yamimosh: this is a fucking joke yamimosh: i asked yamimosh: wtf youre doing yamimosh: thats it yamimosh: then you sat at tower and afked yamimosh: why are you even here? yamimosh: just fucking afk yamimosh: hoenstly yamimosh: whats the differnece yamimosh: youre not doing anything but suiciding and walking around jung yamimosh: nice yamimosh: nice yamimosh: i love how you guys are just gonna instantly queue into another one and prob not even report too yamimosh: thats the best part yamimosh: is this shitstain of a human being is going to do this in another 12 fucking games before anyone does anything yamimosh: it doesnt matter yamimosh: hes just gonna make another account yamimosh: because riot doesnt give a fuck yamimosh: imaigne yamimosh: if i dint yamimosh: have to fuckign yamimosh: 1v2 yamimosh: report this fucking degenerate yamimosh: dont fucking say gg yamimosh: Stfu

context, he was afk at tower when i asked wtf are you doing in the first couple messages, he took a lux bind then just sat at tower and left about 40 seconds after.

I called him a monkey, its an animal. if that's toxic then grow the fuck up.

I swear alot, theres a chat filter though that people disable, so i dont understand the issue there.

called him a shitstain of a human being because... in fact... he is a shitstain of a human being.

^ also applies with degenerate, and both of these came after dealing with this for about 20 minutes.

I told him to afk because he was already sitting in base not doing anything, and when he wasnt, he was running down mid towers. Woudlve been better for everyone if he just left.

ModThe DjinnJun 26, 20185 votes

called him a shitstain of a human being because... in fact... he is a shitstain of a human being.

If this is the sort of approach you are going to take to the behavioral system, I'm afraid no one here will be able to help you, nor are you likely to find the League's behavioral rules are moving in a direction that you like.

I would suggest that if this is the way you wish to behave you should look for another game that does not have this sort of behaviorial restriction.

KarunamonJun 26, 20183 votes

called him a shitstain of a human being because... in fact... he is a shitstain of a human being. ^ also applies with degenerate, and both of these came after dealing with this for about 20 minutes.

Look at it this way. Calm down your salt at getting a perfectly legitimate chat restrict and think for a moment. Say you're being the decent guy on your team, and a troll starts up. Someone else engages them, and the chatbox is filled with an argument.

You're gonna mute both the troll, and the guy who engaged them. Both of them are making the game worse.

Silent GravityJun 26, 20181 votes

Way back in the 90's there was a study about trolling.

They found that trolls troll to get reactions.

The study found that when a single person responds to a troll, that it encourages them to keep trolling. They found that trolls generally troll about 20 times for every time they receive a reaction.

When no one responds to a troll, they get bored and stop trolling.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

If it takes 20 games of not getting a response for a troll to get bored, that means that 180 people have to exhibit the smallest bit of self control to get them to stop. Or alternately, every time you respond to a troll, you personally helped the troll to feel motivated to ruin 180 more peoples' games.

I realize youre not supposed to fight toxic with toxic, but it's flawed and stupid and counterproductive.

Encouraging trolling is really counterproductive if you're annoyed by trolling.

And then there are the people who you annoy with lines like

yamimosh: you picked a bad champ

who decide to troll since you were going to spend the game shitting in chat anyway.

KarunamonJun 26, 20181 votes

If it takes 20 games of not getting a response for a troll to get bored, that means that 180 people have to exhibit the smallest bit of self control to get them to stop.

In fairness, that's not gonna happen. Even if you have a strict dont-feed-the-trolls policy, few people seem to understand that.

KarunamonJun 26, 20181 votes

Afk? well sure, id love to just fucking leave, but thanks to riots incredible leaverbuster, im going to be penalized for someone elses actions.

As a point of order, leaving a game with an inter will result in less pain for you than counter-flaming them or trying to stick it out and getting tilted off the face of the planet. Inters are still relatively rare, so the penalties are not going to escalate. As a bonus, this will usually provide the straw to break the back of the "NEVAR SURRENDER!!!1" types and get the game over with. (I notice that the small handful of games I've done this on usually have a successful surrender vote soon after I leave).

You'll have to wait a bit to queue for your next game. Big deal. You're not going to be doing this enough for it to become a serious problem so long as you only do it when there is an actual inter on your team (not someone playing dumb or badly, but someone playing to intentionally lose like running it up mid). You're not ruining any games - the inter is the source of that problem.

This will not be a popular opinion here, but until such time as Riot recognizes that their behavioral systems are entirely unsatistfactory and unjust in that they make life more difficult for legitimate players than dedicated trolls, this is the better option. It's harm reduction, basically. You can stick it out, get tilted, and probably want to defenestrate your computer, or you can just leave the game and keep your chill.

The inter already fucked you by doing what they did, but this way, at least you get fucked less.

AneirinJun 26, 20181 votes

What are our options? mute all? sure that works, then hes not yelling, but i dont think muting him stops him from running under tower until the enemy mid is 20/0.

Flaming him also doesn't stop him from running under tower.

I know the code, there's just a ton wrong with it.

If you willingly break the rules then you have to accept the punishment. I can't intentionally go over the speed limit then claim speed limits are bs and that I don't deserve a ticket.