Boards›Player Behavior

This "Kill-win" Mentality seriously needs to stop.

Eternal Torment··56 votes·3,180 views

Disclaimer.

This is just a post, i address noone particularIly. Should anybody feel passively spoken to, then it just all the more admits that this applies to that specific Person.

I see it everywhere in the Games and Boards and even in my own rounds of LoL. People who are so incoherently meta-enslaved that they have lost all touch to strategic importances.

In the current meta, yes, lethality is awesome and stuff, BUT LEAGUE OF LEGENDS ISN'T ALL ABOUT THE KILLSTREAKS.

There are other ways to win than to murder the whole team, namely splitpushing and objective hunting.

It is really sad to my eyes when I, like in my previous game just now as a rammus, Keep their jungler AND carry at bay inside their base so my team gets a free baron, and just because i died (and they did get baron for 4 men) 3 people started permanently, throughout the whole game yelling "Report rammus inting and trolling" and flamed the ever living crap out of me, even told me stuff like "mute us and enjoy a nice ban retard". I even told them i would Keep their jungler away so they can get baron and push lane Towers, so they knew fully well of my intent.

But this is merely just one example, one personally witnessed example of the many where people are just being....i can't for the love of me put it harmless, people are just being stupid over how the meta suppostedly works and what role they Play in it.

It shouldn't be JUST the jungler to call shots on dragon, baron, siege base etc etc. it should be COMMON LOGIC to do that stuff, but people are more and more sliding away from what this game is about in the executive sense, and just want to be victorious by having the best KDA's. hell, some people gladly sell out their game and make their team lose JUST so they get a positive KDA.

What the fuck has become of league? I am starting to feel like every time i have a team where just one Person knows even just the existence of the words "Split pushing" and "objectives" i should consider myself miraculously lucky and honor this Person with a GG regardless of how they performed ingame.

Such kinda mentalities in the community really Need to stop.

71 Comments

ChaosThief16 votes

It's quite unfortunate that the game at the moment is catered to groups and child-like behavior. I had a game where I had forgotten smite (played top the last game, swapped masteries and tabbed out without changing summoners...)

As a team we were actually doing fine. I was ganking occasionally, I was able to pick up a few kills despite the level drop that I had. Then... the mid laner D/C'd.

And what did the rest of my team decide to do, being the 3 man group? They stayed in fountain and declared open mid, then all purchased sightstones and just spammed wards until the game was over... They also proceeded to call me a troll for forgetting smite (and yes, I was suffering quite a bit in terms of survivability and clear already)

Objective wise we had lost maybe one tower? And one dragon? But the game was already over because of their decision. They called an early surrender vote, which I didn't vote "yes" to despite them voting. In hindsight, I probably should have so I could've reported them faster, but what is done is done.

I'm very much sick of having to deal with people like this. There are times when the game is no where near over, where it was actually quite even, but because the team is ~6 kills behind, they instantly go for a surrender vote at all chances they get. I could delay the 15 minute vote, but every time the 15 minute vote would fail the 20 minute vote would likely pass (because it would be 4/1.)

This is honestly why an early game meta should not exist. It caters to people who think this game is only winnable by kills and pressing leads rather than actual strategy later in the game.

OMGSoAnnoying15 votes

Yeah, it saddens me that people don't try and come back anymore. It can be done. I hate when people lost first tower or they're down three kills and they think it's gg. It's not.

I had a game the other day, we were losing. Losing BAD, at around... 27 mins or so. Or at least it looked bad. We got to a point where they had two of our inhibs down, our nexus turrets down and we had to go for "The ONE TEAM FIGHT OMGZ" to even keep going. All the enemy team had to do was dogpile the Nexus and they had it. They broke off to fight us... and LOST the fight. We stalled it out and got our inhibs back. We then won three more team fights, got Baron and ENDED it when we had the chance. Our Cho was like "Yeah, we have no minions, eff it I tank it let's END THIS.

And we won. My stat line sucked (as an ADC), but I don't give a flying. I'd rather have the W.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2554505486/228581677?tab=overview is the game in question.

IPromiseTomorrow3 votes

ADCs like you is what i need in my SOLO Q

OMGSoAnnoying1 votes

Thank you!

Terchio1 votes

Came back while the enemy team got 3 Infernal Drakes? Your team deserves a medal.

OMGSoAnnoying1 votes

It just proves that it can be done. Just don't tilt, farm and scale. Eventually their gold lead means nothing.

iDemacia1 votes

Did you also refuse to surrender? See that happen in a lot of my games and it's super tilting. Especially in a situation like that where it's 4v5 and the jg forgot smite. If not then well this is league where toxicity is king.

ˉˉˉˉˉˉ3 votes

I miss the previous Seasons, where teamfights weren't decided by who will one-shot first, and actually needed S T R A T E G Y

BoilTheOil6 votes

the current meta is who has the more autistic bot lane

DoubleTapper5 votes

I could not agree more. I'm stuck in bronze 4 rn at O lp because I always have at least one idiot that focuses on improving K/D rather than focusing on the objectives. I'm on a 10 game loss streak because we can't focus on objectives. SAVE ME

Cowseed1 votes

I agree I could try more but I've been spamming my mains and sometimes I legit cannot see the possibilty of winning soley based on their attitudes.

Having feeders I could handle I can move on from that but when people give up and do everything but trying to win its just depressing.

DoubleTapper1 votes

I know right. It's QQ inducing, but just gotta grind on, both with life and in LoL.

Zardo1 votes

However it is important to note that objectives can't be taken if the enemy is in position to contest. This is where kills come in, more specifically picks, as you can then force uneven objectives. But if you're trying to force mid t2 with all 5 of them still up, don't be surprised if they collapse and obliterate your team due to the great angles they get from the collapse.

The Whamboozler2 votes

Er, not to piss on you TOO much here, but no one is stuck in bronze 3-5 ENTIRELY because of bad teammates. At those shit elos you actually ARE better off just picking a braindead easy champ like Yi and going ham every game rather than trying to be smart about how you play. Your teammates ARE in fact potatos with googly eyes stuck in them, but so are your enemies.

I'm not insulting you here... rather trying to give you some advice. For low bronze you actually SHOULD just pick someone who snowballs like a mofo and can 1v5 if the enemy is stupid enough to let you (because they will be) and just go hard in the paint. You can swap over to playing like something with a brain when you get out of the depths. Down there the ONLY THING that people care about is kills and tilt is EVERYWHERE. You'll do better if you stop expecting the people there to be intelligent and help you out as a team and you just use them as speedbumps to slow the enemy down while you get fed as shit and solo carry.

DoubleTapper1 votes

Actually I went to B5 cuz afk but now back in B4 and on a steady climb.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

BUT LEAGUE OF LEGENDS ISN'T ALL ABOUT THE KILLSTREAKS.

You haven't met Silver, have you? I'm not even going to touch Bronze or Cardboard. XD

Eternal Torment3 votes

I haven't just met silver, i AM silver.

insert overly dramatic dun dun duuun

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Prosecution rests, your honor. :^)

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iLwrLzng,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-07-23T17:24:06.090+0000)

Prosecution rests

I'm starting to rub off on you, Ariel-kun............ and everything that that implies.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

item 3751 PURGE IT WITH FIRE! summoner 14

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Click R for Win,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iLwrLzng,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-23T15:30:41.930+0000)

There are other ways to win than to murder the whole team, namely splitpushing and objective hunting.

Do you realize that the purpose of those two is to win team fights? are you that oblivious?

I'm just going to take a wild guess and say you are Bronze Chaos... let us take a look..... ahahahaha can I call it or can I call it?

Eternal Torment11 votes

uhm no? Objective hunting doesn't require you to kill them. You ever heard of "Rush dragon, enemy jungler is top"? Strategie and homicide are not the same, that goes for ingame aswell.

Split pushing is the exact opposite of hunting kills. While your team keeps the others at bay somewhere else you push the exact opposite of the map, forcing at least 2 enemies to retreat, turning the initial 5v4 into an 3v4 in your favor AND taking down a turret aswell

Velzard of Koz2 votes

Split pushing is the exact opposite of hunting kills. While your team keeps the others at bay somewhere else you push the exact opposite of the map, forcing at least 2 enemies to retreat, turning the initial 5v4 into an 3v4 in your favor AND taking down a turret aswell

This is what he says, though. Turning the initial 5v4 of what? Of team fight. So that splitpushing does help you turn the eventual teamfight in your favour, by your very own words. That's what he says. Splitpush help you win teamfight, which you usually win by killing (very rarely has winning the teamfight meaning in case you just poke them into fountain as it usually blocks them for smaller amount of time than Death, at least late in game). So how are you countering his argument?

OMGSoAnnoying1 votes

Because when they have the 5 vs your 4, you don't want the fight. You harass, poke, and disengage ASAP if they try and all-in to force the fight. If they're low after that and want to back, THAT is when you start the fight, when they're low and you want to stop them from backing. Now you have two lanes of pressure, and you might get some kills that allow you to go for a major objective like Baron or an inhibitor.

If they break off, then yes, you take the numbers advantage and work with it. Especially if they CANNOT use just one champ to deal with your split pusher (Tryndamere, Jax, mid-game Yorick and a high-stack Nasus come to mind). You might not get the kills, but forcing them to back off of objectives so you can get them works just as well.

Cowseed2 votes

How does spiltpushing win teamfights?

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

How does spiltpushing win teamfights?

Does Bronze Chaos really not understand the concept of split pressure?

Answer me this; Do you really need me to break it down for you? that is not a joke.

Cowseed6 votes

I don't think being bronze really has anything to do with it. Just because someone is splitpushing doens't mean your team should be pushing for teamfights from their ass. They should be contesting something else.

If your already fighting and another lane is dying pretty sure that the enemy team isn't going to just up and say "lets turn or backs to them and go to that lane" risking being colapsed on.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think being bronze really has anything to do with it

That right there is pretty much exactly the problem with Bronze Chaos. You think you are Bronze Chaos for some strange, immutable reason..... but the real reason is actually very straightforward; You refuse to even acknowledge what you are, and so you cannot improve.

It has EVERYTHING to do with Bronze Chaos. If and when you rotate to counter-act a strong split push, your team runs around like headless chickens instead of properly reacting to timing and spatial awareness [I.e. synchronized movement].

Split pushing weakens the enemy formation, giving one team an opening to either push a lane 3v4 or straight up engage a favorable fight for them even if it's 4v4 (I.e. if enemy team sends their strongest champ to stop split push, that means 4v4 will be them without their strongest champ).

The fact that I had to explain this is exactly why Diamond Pride and Bronze Chaos are different.

Cowseed2 votes

Ahhh.... I think you're thinking diamond rules apply here. If someones split pushing it's not the fed person that's going to stop them either the nearest person or the person who's lane there pushing.

To be completely honest if someones splitpushing and a team fight breaks out then usually the tean fight is the distraction for the spit pusher in most of my games. Either that or the enemy team sends someone and doesn't fight.

The fact that I had to explain this is exactly why Diamond Pride and Bronze Chaos are different. Wut?

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Ahhh.... I think you're thinking diamond rules apply here.

Am I? did I make a distinction between Diamond Pride and Bronze Chaos? Yes.

The prosecution rests.

Cowseed3 votes

XD But is pride really a good way to lead people?

notice me Sin pi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iLwrLzng,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2017-07-23T19:50:47.543+0000) ally not understand the concept of split pressure?

Answer me this; Do you really need me to break it down for you? that is not a joke.

why even ask if he's being serious or not when u can just break it down on the spot? This is not a joke.

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=notice me Sin pi,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iLwrLzng,comment-id=0005000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-23T22:49:17.876+0000)

why even ask if he's being serious or not when u can just break it down on the spot?

Because I consider it a serious insult [I.e. talking EXTREMELY down to someone] to explain the most basic aspects of movement synchronicity. If someone is really that Bronze Chaos, and I mean that level... I will explain.

But if they're not, I would never insult them by explaining something so fundamental. That's like sitting someone down and explaining that "Gravity pulls things 'doooooown'" and they just look at you with eyes nearly closed thinking you're a jackass unless they are truly that ..... word.

There is a reason it's called "Diamond PRIDE".

notice me Sin pi1 votes

never have viewed it that way before but it makes a lot of sense

The Whamboozler1 votes

... except that asking that still comes off as incredibly condescending and insulting regardless, so you may as well have just explained it in the first place and saved time.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

... except that asking that still comes off as incredibly condescending and insulting regardless

It is only disrespectful to Bronze Chaos.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Assuming this is some meme you're repeating that I am unaware of...

You're still wrong. It's just kinda insulting in general. It's just the typical arrogant high-elo talking down to low elo like they're little kids that need bibs. Rank shaming and condescending don't become less obnoxious if you slap a silly word on it and more than "You're a fat idiot" is less of an insult if it's followed with "No offense".

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

You're still wrong. It's just kinda insulting in general.

It is only insulting if I'm wrong, which I never am (Except against Ariel-kun).

I only asked him a Bronze Chaos level question because he was making Bronze Chaos level arguments. This is not complicated.

It's just the typical arrogant high-elo talking down to low elo like they're little kids that need bibs.

THAT'S EXACTLY MY POINT, how can you be unable to understand ? Good lord, I hope it will not be necessary to create a flowchart for Bronze Chaos to understand what I am saying......

Rank shaming

This is not Tumblr. Diamond Pride and Bronze Chaos are not the same thing; Meritocracy rules the day here, not fee fees.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Right... just gonna assume this is dumb meme I'm not familiar then and leave you to be inane in peace.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Right... just gonna assume this is dumb meme

Nope, the argument is just going over your head, that's all.

The Whamboozler1 votes

Whatever you say chief.

gottrjr2 votes

Killing the enemy is fun hence the reason for kill-win.

The Whamboozler2 votes

Fun fact. Stalling an entire team of 5 people with a clever tactic or trick so your team can get baron or an inhib or something might win you a game... but it won't get you an S+. In fact, since you likely got a death over it, it will degrade your score post-game... even if your play was what won the game ultimately. All the game recognizes is kills, assists, towers, CS.... raw numbers.

It's hard to explain to the often-ignorant people playing the game (ESPECIALLY at lower Elo) that say... that support or tank was actually the team's MVP over the guy that picked Riven or Zed or something and just went ham over and over for kills... or just the adc who got to lategame because of you and was strong enough because of it to clean up 3 kills in every teamfight.

The game literally gives you a ranking explaining how "good" you did after the match... and that ranking entirely ignores strategy, tactics and smart play over raw numbers. Someone can just look at the scores and say "well obviously zed did better because he got an S- to your A- Rammus" because the GAME is saying that. Zone the fed assassin away from your adc all game? "Good job ez! Good carry!" The game itself doesn't recognize these kinds of contributions to the team. I'm sad, but not shocked that most of the players don't as well.

BubblyRainbows1 votes

Only marginally involved, but I have a thought about this. I have to preface it, however, by saying that I LOVE hextech crafting. The lure of free swag was the only reason I started playing pvp and is the only reason I do it at all. But I do have to say that I blame hextech crafting for part of what you're talking about. You get chests by earning an S, which requires and excellent kda, good cs, participation in objectives and such. For people who are more interested in the free chests than anything, their stats become the ONLY thing worth paying attention to. For these people, once it becomes obvious that their score isn't good enough for the S and a chest, they don't care about the game anymore. At all. I know people with this mindset. It boils down to... "Will I earn a chest for this performance?" If the answer is no, then the attitude becomes "why bother? Just surrender."

Solemdeath4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Amy the Raven,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=iLwrLzng,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-23T16:42:19.659+0000)

You get chests by earning an S, which requires and excellent kda,

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2549842236/231627365?tab=overview

In this match I got an S-, even though my K/D/A was only 3/2/0. You can still get an S without an amazing K/D/A, simply by getting lots of CS, objectives, and dealing good damage.

It's the same way you can get an S by getting a good K/D/A without getting lot's of CS or objectives. It's just that most people think it's easier to get a good score than to actually play the game properly.

Rainbow Smarf1 votes

LOL WELCOME TO LEAGUE OF LEGEND HAHAHAHA, i am sorry for you but you will rarely have a good game with peoples that are actualy intelligent enough to play the game proprely 99% of the peoples who play league are r3tard3d.

kargish1 votes

See it's these kind of things that seperates gold players and platinum players for an example. They're not so different in terms of skill, but the platinum player's knowledge of the game is far better than the gold one.

Low elo just doesn't focus on objectives, hence why they are low elo.

Werdx1 votes

I just lost a game in which i had team mates who had only kills on their mind.They didn't care about win whatsoever.

My team mates spent one minute chasing 30% hp Teemo,while enemies had 40 sec + 'respawn' time.They had only 2 turrets left in their base.My team completely ignored killing their minions and clearing way for our minions.

Yasuo,who had level 7 mastery by the way ignored my 'cry' for help,and kept complaining how i died to Tryndamere,and how i fed him,that's why he did not want to help.Same that Yasuo died to Katarina 10 times,and i died 2x vs Tryndamere.Their Katarina ended up having 23 kills.

My whole team ignored my pings on Baron,first time we wiped their whole team.At that point they had only 2 turrets in front of their base.

We could have kill him and rush to win.

Yasuo did not want to participate in team fights.

He chased Teemo most of the time.

After match was over his only words were 'lol kiddo,fed tryndamere' who had only 10 kills by the way.

I am just wondering how did he get mastery level 7 with that attitude and that gamestyle?

And Yes,10 minutes into match,he vent afk and came back 2 minutes later.

Our support vent afk 5 minutes into game and came 4 minutes later.

I kept Tryndamere on top for good 10 minutes,freezing every minion wave that came.He had only one item in first 10 minutes,i had already Yomu and Tabi boots.He literally sat behind and i even manage to kill him 2 times and Katarina one time when they wanted to Jump me.That same Yasuo with his attitude didn't manage to win lane vs Katarina for 15 minutes.Even tho he got first blood,he died 7 times by the time we started with group fights.Which was around 20 minutes into match.I had only 2 deaths when we started fighting.I earned 6 more by relying on my team to watch my back and ended being the only one fighting while they were running away 5 vs 2.

They even used recall instead of pushing when enemies had 30 sec respawn.

This was one of those games i wish i never made LOL account.

Rare are games in which i vote for surrender.I usually have hope until they destroy our base completely.

Couple years back when i started with this game,i had few amazing wins.Games in which we had no chance to win whatsoever,but we ended up winning.How?As far as i remember,my first game when we win against all odds,they had all 3 turrets in front of their base,we had only one in our base.We managed to wipe them and rush middle and win while they were on respawn timer.

Second game was something like one guy was spamming surrender because we kept dying and 4 of us declined,we ninja killed baron and won the game just because of that.

People underestimate Baron and dragons,if they had any clue about how important they are,they would be focusing them over kills every single game.

Kills gets you gold and winning chance,but kills means nothing if your team has no idea what teamwork is.Pure example of that is game i described above.All it takes is one guy like that Yasuo and his POS behavior,and you have no chance of winning.

deadlychuck1 votes

Well when most of the game pivots around hyper carries and kill whore champions (as in champions which become monsters when fed), what do you expect?

Marksmen are basically the only unchangable position in nearly 6 years, and by design, they're intended to exponentially scale with power as they get ahead in gold, which directly causally related to getting kills.

Then you start extending this same kind of play style to other classes like Juggernauts and Assassins (though i think this is significant due to item overlap) and boom. Literally every aspect of the game is being dominated by a "get tons of kills" mentality.

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