Boards›Player Behavior

People should be punished for clearly malicious reports

ofart··12 votes·1,529 views

Ok, so I just came out of a 4v5 Normal Draft where our adc was dc the entire game. At ~20 minutes, we're at a massive disadvantage and the enemy team is basically using us for target practice. It's not a fun experience and clearly an unwinnable scenario. If we had a lead to make up for the afk, I'd have no problem playing it out but this was TSM vs NRG level slaughter. I type "would be nice to have a fair game", "I didn't sign up for this " and "I'm done." What made the game even less enjoyable is that they used the extra player to pressure mid constantly so I was a pretty useless Zilean.

I then leave for 2-3 minutes and when I come back, I find the adc's duo partner raging in all chat about me being afk, having a bad attitude and feeding Fizz. I don't think offering an opinion without ad-hominems or insults qualifies as being a bad sport. I didn't criticize anyone but I'm obviously not happy to be in a 4v5 slaughter and if others don't agree, that's fine. I wouldn't even consider it totally frivolous to report me for afk although I think such a game should be safe to leave just like in DoTA. I admit I was afk for a few minutes but I don't consider that a real game and it's not a ranked game anyway. Still, if someone reported me for that, I would be OK with it.

However, this guy told me in the post game lobby that he reported for AFK, Unsportsman, Verbal and Hate Speech. I even got a warning about being reported for Verbal Abuse: Offensive Language. All 3 of these categories were completely and 100% false. The hate speech one is especially ridiculous given that we didn't even come remotely close to discussing a single issue where that could be a factor (such as sexual orientation, race, etc.). He just blatantly made false reports and I get that people can be too sensitive and make reports that aren't valid unintentionally. Perhaps a guy tells someone "it's better if you build Zhonya's on Fiddle" and one takes that as some grave insult to their understanding of the game/playing ability despite his teammate just trying to help and not being abusive in the slightest. I think it's silly but I get it and I've seen it happen. However, this guy is making MALICIOUS reports with the express intent of just getting someone in trouble probably for some ego trip and he stayed in lobby for 10 minutes as I typed this telling me he works for Riot and likes to get people banned. To even consider the category of hate speech as a report option in that game is beyond simply a false report. I could understand people just being mad and making false reports on me but thinking they're right in some weird twisted way but anyone in that game, I'm sure including the person who made the report is well aware that hate speech did not occur in the slightest.

I think not just false but clearly malicious reports are way more toxic than almost anything I've experienced in game. It's very frustrating to be reported for something you 100% unequivocally didn't do - especially something you find disgusting. I sincerely hope Riot is looking into this and punishing players who do this. I did not get punished and it was only a warning but that doesn't make it any more OK to me. I really wish I could look up the logs to post them.

22 Comments

atomicwit4 votes

I don't get why Riot tortures people by forcing them to stay in 4v5s past 20 minutes but that's another discussion.

ZankouHoshizora4 votes

If I understand the story correctly, no punishment has been directed against your account as of this moment? It seems to me that until you get a false positive situation, where the system takes action against your account for something that did not happen, the mere fact that a report has been leveled against you is irrelevant. I can understand the frustration, certainly, but if it's not actually affecting your ability to play the game, I don't think it's anything to worry about.

It seems like your situation might be a bit more complicated, in that you've admitted to some level of negative behavior, just not negative behavior that matches the report categories you were warned for? Speaking personally, I would rather have the system be flexible enough to recognize when someone is acting in a fashion that deserves punishment, even if the reports it receives do not match the behavior it intends to punish.

At any rate, I'm almost completely certain that people are punished both for threatening reports in chat and for issuing false reports. I'm also almost completely certain that false reports are filtered out by the system, so that they don't affect accounts in good standing. And the way you describe the player at issue here, I expect that the system is already readying the banhammer for him.

Can I ask what more you want to see happen?

ofart2 votes

{quoted}

If I understand the story correctly, no punishment has been directed against your account as of this moment? It seems to me that until you get a false positive situation, where the system takes action against your account for something that did not happen, the mere fact that a report has been leveled against you is irrelevant. I can understand the frustration, certainly, but if it's not actually affecting your ability to play the game, I don't think it's anything to worry about.

It seems like your situation might be a bit more complicated, in that you've admitted to some level of negative behavior, just not negative behavior that matches the report categories you were warned for? Speaking personally, I would rather have the system be flexible enough to recognize when someone is acting in a fashion that deserves punishment, even if the reports it receives do not match the behavior it intends to punish.

At any rate, I'm almost completely certain that people are punished both for threatening reports in chat and for issuing false reports. I'm also almost completely certain that false reports are filtered out by the system, so that they don't affect accounts in good standing. And the way you describe the player at issue here, I expect that the system is already readying the banhammer for him.

Can I ask what more you want to see happen?

Yes my account is fine and no it's not more complicated. I didn't admit to doing anything wrong besides afking briefly in a normal game that was 4v5 for 20 minutes with zero chance to win. There was no "negative behavior" beyond that and while I'd consider reporting someone for afk in that situation silly, it wouldn't be completely unfair. However, saying that I don't like to play 4v5s and consider them unfair isn't "negative behavior", it's just an opinion and I have every right to it. It isn't harassing or insulting anyone etc. Others don't have to agree and that's fine or they can even mute me despite saying quite little in chat (it's not like I was spamming about it being 4v5 every minute) but there is no way that just calmly offering an opinion makes sense to be against any rule.

I added what I'd like to happen in my last reply. I think that people can be oversensitive and make false reports but in cases where it's just fairly clear the reports are malicious, it should be treated as abuse just like a guy spamming profanities in all chat.

ZankouHoshizora5 votes

For whatever it's worth, in my book AFKing at all definitely counts as negative behavior, and that is what I was referring to when I wrote my post. I don't often report it unless it's really over the top, but then that's usually because I trust the automated system to handle it just fine.

Beyond that, without chat logs I have little interest (or for that matter ability) to discuss whether or not anything you said in chat crossed a line.

{quoted}

I added what I'd like to happen in my last reply. I think that people can be oversensitive and make false reports but in cases where it's just fairly clear the reports are malicious, it should be treated as abuse just like a guy spamming profanities in all chat.

My point is that that already happens. Players that act as you describe in your story are punished by the system.

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

For whatever it's worth, in my book AFKing at all definitely counts as negative behavior, and that is what I was referring to when I wrote my post. I don't often report it unless it's really over the top, but then that's usually because I trust the automated system to handle it just fine.

Beyond that, without chat logs I have little interest (or for that matter ability) to discuss whether or not anything you said in chat crossed a line.

My point is that that already happens. Players that act as you describe in your story are punished by the system.

Afk is its own thing already. You're just confusing the system with BS reports by checking both. Afk may be unsportsman behavior but you already have a category for it called afk so unless you have other reasons to report for unsportsman, it makes no sense to report for it too.

And honestly, it's absurd that someone would be reported for afk in a game that was already 4v5. Let's take this a bit further, if all 4 of your teammates are afk the entire game and you decide to afk as well, is that punishable from the enemy team? Afk reports are for when you give up and leave while your team is still there, not for when you have half your team at the fountain and you decide not to 2v5. The point of afk reports is to stop people from ruining potentially very winnable games by leaving if they just don't like how the game's going. When you have a 4v5 the entire time and everyone got crushed, another afk isn't ruining anyone's experience and whoever reports for that is frankly an imbecile not understanding the problem the system is trying to address.

ZankouHoshizora1 votes

I mean, I've already pointed out that I want the system to correctly determine whether the reported player deserves to be punished or not, even if the reporting player checks too many reasons and/or the wrong reason. If making a mistake when reporting overly confuses the system, that's a thing for Riot to work on improving.

Beyond that, I'll simply point out that the bad behavior of others does not excuse your own. AFKing is not acceptable, and it remains unacceptable regardless of how many of your allies have already started causing problems. Even in the extreme case where an entire team goes AFK... I mean, I wouldn't report as one of the enemy team anyway, but I wouldn't shed any tears when the automated system punished all five of them. I do want to play against enemy players, after all, not against an empty field.

PrometheS1 votes

{quoted}

I mean, I've already pointed out that I want the system to correctly determine whether the reported player deserves to be punished or not, even if the reporting player checks too many reasons and/or the wrong reason. If making a mistake when reporting overly confuses the system, that's a thing for Riot to work on improving.

Beyond that, I'll simply point out that the bad behavior of others does not excuse your own. AFKing is not acceptable, and it remains unacceptable regardless of how many of your allies have already started causing problems. Even in the extreme case where an entire team goes AFK... I mean, I wouldn't report as one of the enemy team anyway, but I wouldn't shed any tears when the automated system punished all five of them. I do want to play against enemy players, after all, not against an empty field.

Afk SHOULD be acceptable when it's a bloodbath and teams are completely uneven in number. There is a big difference in afking a 5v5 and afking in a 4v5. If you want to play out such a game, go ahead but it's dumb to try and force other players to waste their time. It isn't even a competition anymore and Riot needs to allow safe leaving in that situation after some time, just like many other games do.

This isn't about x doing a bad thing doesn't excuse y doing a bad thing. There is nothing inherently unethical about afk and there are situation where it makes sense, like in a 4v5. In fact, when the score is 4-20 and people are tying to play out a 4v5, they are the real problem ones, not the guy deciding to afk. Those still playing do nothing but waste people's time in a game that isn't competitive at all or under the configuration that we agreed to when queing. That's why they say "open mid" in Korea for such games and that's not even with an afk. With an afk for extended time, there's no argument and you shouldn't have to stay in that game. That's like showing up to a car race and being given a bumper car. No one can blame you for refusing to participate after that.

BTW: I guess instead of letting you afk in these situations, they could just allow early surrender but something definitely needs to be done and blaming the victims of these terrible games isn't the answer.

disregardable3 votes

There's nothing frustrating about being reported for something you didn't do. It has no impact on your account whatsoever.

ofart4 votes

{quoted}

There's nothing frustrating about being reported for something you didn't do. It has no impact on your account whatsoever.

I got the warning first of all. Secondly, there's no human being reading and I don't trust the AI to understand everything perfectly.

disregardable2 votes

In your example, you were negative, so that was valid. You did AFK, so that was valid. There was no hate speech, so that wasn't valid. What's there to misread?

ofart4 votes

{quoted}

In your example, you were negative, so that was valid. You did AFK, so that was valid. There was no hate speech, so that wasn't valid. What's there to misread?

Why is offering an opinion unsportsman? Having a negative opinion is not against any rule and nothing was ever directed at either team, it was simply a reflection of the situation in general. Of course I will have the opinion that 4v5s are unfair. Expressing that is just rational and normal. Opinions by their very definition have wide ranges. There isn't just the opinion that "everything is great and 4v5s are awesome". It's criminal against expression to punish those who don't share that opinion. There was no insult. There was no harassment. It was simply the statement that 4v5s are unfair and not fun to me. I signed up for a 5v5 Normal Draft.

Unsportsman reports mean something else. It isn't just expressing a negative or contrary opinion, which everyone has a right to as long as they aren't rude about it. Unsportsman is often passive aggressive comments, complaints about the team being bad like "riot matchmaking always gives me teams like these", "players in this ELO don't know what a minimap is" etc. Please don't confuse an opinion that isn't positive or you don't share as something that is against any rule. That would be ridiculous.

Anyway, the point isn't just that I got false reported. It's that the reports were malicious, with the intent to hurt another player's standing and possibly get them banned despite KNOWING 100% that the report being submitted is false and unethical. There is absolutely no way anyone considers what was written hate speech with a straight face. Someone abusing the system to this extent deserves the same kind of punishment you'd have for an intentional feeder or other types of trolls.

disregardable4 votes

If the report is valid, then the intent doesn't matter. If the report is not valid, then the report doesn't matter. You're making a big issue out of nothing.

alasarcher1 votes

{quoted}

Why is offering an opinion unsportsman? Having a negative opinion is not against any rule and nothing was ever directed at either team, it was simply a reflection of the situation in general. Of course I will have the opinion that 4v5s are unfair. Expressing that is just rational and normal. Opinions by their very definition have wide ranges. There isn't just the opinion that "everything is great and 4v5s are awesome". It's criminal against expression to punish those who don't share that opinion. There was no insult. There was no harassment. It was simply the statement that 4v5s are unfair and not fun to me. I signed up for a 5v5 Normal Draft.

Unsportsman reports mean something else. It isn't just expressing a negative or contrary opinion, which everyone has a right to as long as they aren't rude about it. Unsportsman is often passive aggressive comments, complaints about the team being bad like "riot matchmaking always gives me teams like these", "players in this ELO don't know what a minimap is" etc. Please don't confuse an opinion that isn't positive or you don't share as something that is against any rule. That would be ridiculous.

Anyway, the point isn't just that I got false reported. It's that the reports were malicious, with the intent to hurt another player's standing and possibly get them banned despite KNOWING 100% that the report being submitted is false and unethical. There is absolutely no way anyone considers what was written hate speech with a straight face. Someone abusing the system to this extent deserves the same kind of punishment you'd have for an intentional feeder or other types of trolls.

Because people came to play game, they didnt come for opinions. Noone cares about your or anyone elses opinion.

PrometheS2 votes

{quoted}

Because people came to play game, they didnt come for opinions. Noone cares about your or anyone elses opinion.

It doesn't matter. There is no report option for "I didn't like his opinion". Not liking someone's opinion doesn't mean they're a bad sport or verbally abusing you. If you enjoy 4v5s, great but it doesn't mean someone who doesn't isn't allowed to say it. This isn't Nazi Germany. If even someone's opinion bothers you, try muting rather than making false reports.

JusticeReigns2 votes

Didn't they used to say that players could be punished for fraudulent reporting? Is that still a thing?

ButtheCatCameBak1 votes

Riot said it. It's not true. But they claim so.

ReadyxPlayerxOne1 votes

I made a post that addressed this as well: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/ENOw3GtM-permanently-suspended-common-posts-and-common-answers

d) Warnings don't really count if they're not real. Per Riot's Tantrum: " The warnings are there so people know they are being reported. We tell you first, then we check the validity of reports. I understand this can be confusing at times, but if you didn't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. If the reports weren't valid, then you can disregard the message."

This means that people can report all they want. But if you didn't do anything, it doesn't count against you EVEN if you get a warning message. I curse a lot, I get warned a lot. I don't get anything more than that because I'm not negative about it or excessive. The player who reports falsely isn't weighted as heavily as someone who consistently finds true trolls. There's no reason to punish people for reporting you for afk when you weren't or for griefing when you didn't. The system already takes care of that.

Furthermore, just because you don't trust the coding of the report system, doesn't mean it's not working. Read the post above, it should help.

Darkslayer852 votes

It's automated now bud. If people lash their anger at you through reports, they get want they want.

Korillo1 votes

The way the system works reports by definition reports cannot be malicious so you really have nothing to worry about. If you want to be offended that is your choice.

SnugglePuggle941 votes

I just got ganged up in my ARAM game for complaining once about a kill steal. I think they were a 3 man premade and all were saying mean things then I got a warning for verbal abuse after the game. I know how you feel.

JusticeReigns1 votes

{quoted}

I just got ganged up in my ARAM game for complaining once about a kill steal. I think they were a 3 man premade and all were saying mean things then I got a warning for verbal abuse after the game. I know how you feel.

a) aram is NOT serious as all get out so why are you complaining b) there is only kill secure in tournaments, where they all work together. play like you in a tourney.

JusticeReigns1 votes

I won a 4 v 5 earlier today. You only lose when you give up. Comebacks are real. Play every game like you mean to win, and you will become an expert for it.

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