How to fix trolling.

y0r1ck··2 votes·554 views

Everyone I've seen talk about this issue is divided. Some people say it's impossible to see who trolls, and the others say riot should find a way. To the people that say it's impossible, of course it will be impossible if nobody ever sees the problem as solvable. To the people who say it should be done, I'm fucking with you guys. It isn't our job to help rid LOL of trolls, it's riot's. So riot, you have to see this as a problem that can be solved. Don't listen to the people who say it's impossible, because for them that discussion ends right there.

My suggestion may not be good but it's here because I'm not one of those people who will tell you it's impossible. Make certain parameters for champions such that if a garen builds manamune, he gets caught for trolling. If a zed builds lich bane, bam detected. Lux with cleaver, detected. Just some examples but you get the idea. It won't be able to catch all the trolls and it's obviously only for ranked but it's a start. Riot can detect this automatically.

21 Comments

Imperial Pandaa9 votes

Okay, so first lets go ahead and clear something up. The argument isn't so much as impossible, as much as consistent. Because the moment you design a system that bans based of items, you begin forcing a meta. Yes, Manamune on Garen would be stupid, Lichbane on Zed, also so (unless he has an AP scaling somewhere in his kit). However, Cleaver on a Lux is fine if she wants to go an AD build.

Basically, while some items it would be easy to catch on certain champions, it is harder on others.

Remember, Riot won't force a meta.

y0r1ck2 votes

I want to add onto my idea, if someone builds those items their winrate should be compared to the number of games that person gets detected as troll in. So if the person is winning a decent amount of games with a troll build, riot will allow it. But if a person has a <33% winrate averaged over the games a person trolls in, then he'll be banned. Assuming that it takes X number of detections to be considered for a ban, the numbers can be fudg3d with.

That way riot is saying if you build shitty items you better not be losing games for your team. I think that sends a better message and adds some consistency. What else do you see?

Umbral Regent3 votes

First of all, there's a pretty big issue with your idea:

...their winrate should be compared to the number of games that person gets detected as troll in.

How does the game know they're trolling in a given match in the first place to save for comparison data? Better yet, I may as well just ask; where does the comparison data even come from?

You can't really compare winrate by items, because that'd get too specific to provide reliable data, and in higher levels of play, some items may generally not get touched by the community at large. So, that's out of the question.

And you can't compare it to optimal/traditional builds, either, because the winrate of traditional builds would be skewed pretty hard when compared to an off-meta build.

And comparing it to the player's regular winrate with the Champion is a bad idea, too, since it could fluctuate for any reason, and trying new things tends to tank players' winrates.


Second, your suggestion still does something that Riot doesn't want to do: Force a meta. Riot doesn't want to force players to build certain ways, or play certain ways, etc., and punishing players for doing poorly even in one match where they screw around testing something new is beyond absurd.

Like, what if Tank-&-Spank Gangplank is gonna be the next big thing, but nobody wants to try it because the moment their winrate dips because of Dead Man's Plate or any other tank purchase, they'll get sacked with a punishment for being "trolls"? Or a Hyper-Speed Isolation Skarner build?

Should they be counted as Trolls because they're doing something unusual, even though they wholly intend to win?


Third, you're completely disregarding intent, amongst several other factors, though intent is the foremost of them. How do you even know if the person intends to troll with their build? Do they say it outright? Do they follow through when they say it, or do they play it straight?

What if their Riven Support pick got spontaneously hard-countered, and they lost lane hard as a result? Should the Riven be counted as a troll simply because of an unforeseen variable or two? Or perhaps they got ganked obsessively by the enemy jungler/midlaner because they were seen as an easy target?

What if the consistent losses have less to do with the player's build, but more to do with the circumstances of the match itself? What if the build was actually godlike, but teams gave up before it could reach the height of its power and make a difference in the match?

There are way too many factors to consider, that even touching on the subject I know I'm doing it an injustice.

The point is, your suggestion does little to fix the troll problem, and does more to implicate people who play off-meta as "trolls".

y0r1ck1 votes

Op.gg me. Under my system I'd be fine. If your off-meta build doesn't work in a large number of games, it's a troll build.

Umbral Regent1 votes

Op.gg me. Under my system I'd be fine.

I didn't bring into question whether or not you would be fine by your own system.

If your off-meta build doesn't work in a large number of games, it's a troll build.

That's still not a workable data-set. How many games is the sample size? What winrate would be necessary out of those games to deserve a pass?

Beyond that, there's several other variables to be taken into consideration. Is it exclusively item builds, or are Rune page set-ups taken into account as well? Are conditional items taken into consideration by the proposed system? Does the system know what's meta, and does it judge and potentially ban players despite them running meta?

What's stopping your proposed system from banning players who are actually playing it straight, but just suck?

dboy2251 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eZEwJjUv,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-13T01:29:56.764+0000)

I didn't bring into question whether or not you would be fine by your own system.

That's still not a workable data-set. How many games is the sample size? What winrate would be necessary out of those games to deserve a pass?

Beyond that, there's several other variables to be taken into consideration. Is it exclusively item builds, or are Rune page set-ups taken into account as well? Are conditional items taken into consideration by the proposed system? Does the system know what's meta, and does it judge and potentially ban players despite them running meta?

What's stopping your proposed system from banning players who are actually playing it straight, but just suck?

since there is no pm function. i wanted to ask you why you threatened me and took down my post simply for mentioning i was going to start recording my game play and to post on youtube when a room full of people decide to bully someone around. care to explain?

i remember you mentioning something about naming and shaming people, but i don't see how your assumptions warrants a threat by you. i just wanted to show other people mainly parents. that this game due to the rioters. you and other moderators, and the huge amounts of other bullies on this game. that this is prob one of the very last games that is suited for kids. and you threatened me? i have never even heard of this naming and shaming term you used untill you said that is what im doing. you people need to stop penalizing others for your own asinine assumptions. i think this naming and shaming and threatening thing is something you are very well use to. butt i am not surprised because that is what i have been saying to people. that riot supports bullies and are bullies themselves

and if i want to record my gameplay and post it on youtube to show people how much bullying goes on in this game. then i have every right to do so. so you can threaten me all you want. which is typical nature from you bullies.

Umbral Regent2 votes
  1. I didn't threaten you, I warned you about potential Moderator action.
  2. I also didn't take down your thread, because, as you can see, I'm not a Moderator. If you want to figure out why your thread was deleted, go to Discuss the Boards or talk to the moderators on the Boards community Discord.
  3. The reason I warned you about the Naming & Shaming rules is because I assumed you were simply going to make a boards post with videos showcasing other players bullying, which is, again, against the "No Naming & Shaming" rules, which would lead to the posts being taken down at the very worst, or having the videos and identifying information removed.
  4. You can go ahead and post on YouTube all you want, as long as it doesn't violate their rules. Either way, most people already know League's community isn't kid-friendly. Though, you calling Riot, the Moderation team, and basically every player a bully isn't gonna help you with anything.

That's all I'm really going to address, since you bugging me over this is a pretty massive digression from the topic at hand, which in and of itself may warrant Moderator action.

dboy2251 votes

[{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eZEwJjUv,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-13T13:50:18.015+0000)

  1. I didn't threaten you, I warned you about potential Moderator action.
  2. I also didn't take down your thread, because, as you can see, I'm not a Moderator. If you want to figure out why your thread was deleted, go to Discuss the Boards or talk to the moderators on the Boards community Discord.
  3. The reason I warned you about the Naming & Shaming rules is because I assumed you were simply going to make a boards post with videos showcasing other players bullying, which is, again, against the "No Naming & Shaming" rules, which would lead to the posts being taken down at the very worst, or having the videos and identifying information removed.
  4. You can go ahead and post on YouTube all you want, as long as it doesn't violate their rules. Either way, most people already know League's community isn't kid-friendly. Though, you calling Riot, the Moderation team, and basically every player a bully isn't gonna help you with anything.

That's all I'm really going to address, since you bugging me over this is a pretty massive digression from the topic at hand, which in and of itself may warrant Moderator action.

it doesn't matter anymore. like you said you assumed. seems im getting penalized and pushed around for a lot of different assumptions

Umbral Regent1 votes

You assume you're getting penalized for assumptions. If you want answers, I already linked you to where you could find them.

I just warned you that if you name and shame players on the boards, the Moderators will take action on those particular posts.

Good day to you.

Kei1433 votes

You have to understand new players would sometimes build those based on how they don't know anything.

Would be very unfair to ban them based on that alone.

There currently is a system in place already. It's certainly not the best, but it is able to detect a sudden shift in "badness" behavior.

People complain about trolling punishments cos:

  1. There isn't much visibility around the system of when people got punished

  2. Too many people want to enforce a meta, and if you aren't following the meta, you are trolling.

Part one Riot can fix, Part two, Riot will not fix.

y0r1ck1 votes

"It won't be able to catch all the trolls and it's obviously only for ranked but it's a start. Riot can detect this automatically."

Build whatever you want in normals, if you're level 30 you know not to build cleaver on lux.

Edit- I want too add onto my idea, if someone builds those items their winrate should be compared to the number of games that person gets detected as troll in. So if the person is winning a decent amount of games with a troll build, riot will allow it. But if a person has a 5% winrate averaged over the games a person trolls in, then he'll be banned. Assuming that it takes X number of detections to be banned.

Kei1433 votes

So lets say a popular lux streamer is playing as support, she is against a team of tanks and her team is all AD. She decides to buy a black cleaver (cos no one else in her team is doing it) to help shred armor off the tanks and wins.

A bunch of lowbies see that, don't know why she built that BC and tries to do the same for 25 games and looses all of them. So now the lowbies need to be punished because they tried to copy something they saw on a popular stream and deep down they truly believed it to be a good item on lux (instead of a an extremely situational item).

Trolling is a relative term and it's not all the time that people are trolling. This is the reason why smart trolling is so hard to detect, even if it's manual reviews.

Another example, was SupportSmiteSinged trolling? Some say yes, some say no. Community and Rioters are both split on that topic, and I'm geared towards no. The same can be said for CounterJg-SupportNuNu.

y0r1ck1 votes

Lux shredding armor with auto attacks. Quit trolling.

Kei1431 votes

Looks like someone is a META slave.

Asterfix1 votes

I feel like you haven't seen any of those Meta breaking builds floating around youtube. Kshaway does a series of them. The latest one was Thresh with dark harvest and crit items and he 1-2 shot everything.

There's no way to stop trolls or even detect them. I think the only thing I would change would be allowing a remake vote in the lobby, like say, if some guy was assigned support, picks zed and takes smite so he can smite-steal the jungler because he didn't want to support. You just click a "remake" button and you're put to a vote, if 3 or more say yes then the whichever team voted for the remake gets taken out of queue. Im sure 3-4 people would rather sit through queue again than dodge / sit through a game that's a guarenteed loss.

Sure you could get people who troll and remake every lobby but it's not like you would lose LP / ruin your series because you needed to restart your queue again.

y0r1ck1 votes

There is a way to detect trolls and stop them, we just haven't found it yet.

Your idea is ok, my biggest problem is that some players in ranked might use that vote to dodge off meta players. I feel like that chances of that are higher than the chances of someone abusing the system I suggested. And we both know my idea is mediocre at best.

Aside from that, it will only detect people who show they're trolling before the game starts.

Also, what keeps your idea from being a re-roll button?

What about this idea? Riot shows a lot of stats at the end of a ranked game. Take the sum of those stats and compare it to the .1% worst sums of that champion and if your score is lower you get a tick for trolling. The numbers can be changed but that's the gist. It'll show on those charts whether you contributed or not.

Edit - I'm not saying your idea is impossible I'm just asking questions to see if we can make it work somehow.

Edit- I want too add onto my original idea, if someone builds those items their winrate should be compared to the number of games that person gets detected as troll in. So if the person is winning a decent amount of games with a troll build, riot will allow it. But if a person has a 5% winrate averaged over the games a person trolls in, then he'll be banned. Assuming that it takes X number of detections to be banned.

Dolyna1 votes

{quoted}

What about this idea? Riot shows a lot of stats at the end of a ranked game. Take the sum of those stats and compare it to the .1% worst sums of that champion and if your score is lower you get a tick for trolling. The numbers can be changed but that's the gist. It'll show on those charts whether you contributed or not.

Edit- I want too add onto my original idea, if someone builds those items their winrate should be compared to the number of games that person gets detected as troll in. So if the person is winning a decent amount of games with a troll build, riot will allow it. But if a person has a 5% winrate averaged over the games a person trolls in, then he'll be banned. Assuming that it takes X number of detections to be banned.

That sounds like a lot of background code. I'd be worried that all that chart checking would add lag to the game. It also doesn't seem terribly fair to punish people for vague and complicated item restrictions.

On the other hand, a 5% win rate should be pretty easy to beat, even for a hardened troll. After all, there will often be trolls/AFKs/disconnects/inters on the other team.

y0r1ck1 votes

I think it can be done after the game. Therefore no lag will actually be in the game. And a simple sum and comparison isn't too difficult on a computer. Riot already has the server averages. Just the sums and comparisons are new.

Ok how about 10%? I think it's very unlikely for a troll to best a 10% winrate in the games they troll.

Dolyna1 votes

{quoted}

Make certain parameters for champions such that if a garen builds manamune, he gets caught for trolling. If a zed builds lich bane, bam detected. Lux with cleaver, detected. Just some examples but you get the idea. It won't be able to catch all the trolls and it's obviously only for ranked but it's a start. Riot can detect this automatically.

If you want to prevent certain champions from buying certain items, I think it would be easier and more fair to simply remove those items from the characters' store lists.

y0r1ck1 votes

No, I think every champion should be able to build every item. I think a large array of items is a big part of league and if a zed is using lich bane in masters he should be able to.

I want too add onto my idea, if someone builds those items their winrate should be compared to the number of games that person gets detected as troll in. So if the person is winning a decent amount of games with a troll build, riot will allow it. But if a person has a 5% winrate averaged over the games a person trolls in, then he'll be banned. Assuming that it takes X number of detections to be banned.

More from Player Behavior

More by y0r1ck