Get punished for flaming toxic people and get punished for avoiding them.

Ramen226·Dec 20, 2016·4 votes·1,339 views

Why is there still a punishment for flaming people who are feeding? Or people who are flaming me? I get that the goal of chat restriction is supposed to punish people who like to start talking that good stuff in chat. But, is it not ridiculous that calling someone an Idiot when they're BEING an idiot gets you punished? Like its ok for them to feed but not for me to be frustrated that they're feeding. And then there's the fact that if your team is banning your picks in champ select you get punished for dodging?? like holy crap why am I not only forced to play with these people but I have to be nice to them?? Just want input on if anyone thinks this is a good system or if I'm just wrong for angrily typing at stupid people.

13 Comments

PlsTouchMeGentlyDec 20, 20164 votes

I get that this is difficult to understand, but you are only judged for your actions. Not the actions of others.

FlahertyDec 20, 20162 votes

Because responding the same way towards them does literally nothing positive. It doesn't make you feel better and it doesn't make them stop and think "hey this guy called me retarded maybe I should change the way I think and do things." All it does is continue the process of toxicity and bring down the whole mood for everyone else who has to be a part of the chat.

Ramen226Dec 20, 20161 votes

And if it does make me feel better? Look I know it sounds messed up but I'm not talking about the types of guys that get stomped in lane bc its a bad matchup, they're a bad game/day, etc. I mean the guys that purposely run down the lane, annoying you with pings, trash talking you for no reason, stuff like that. If yelling at them makes me either less pissed off at the situation then why is it Riots job to say "No that's not positive." I get wanting to prevent toxicity from spreading, I get wanting to prevent needlessly flaming people who aren't really at fault. But how does punishing me for getting frustrated at someone Int'ing create a positive situation either? Especially when that person trolling is with a few of his friends while doing it so he doesn't suffer any consequences for starting a flame war but I get punished for participating in it And on "Bringing down the mood for everyone else in the chat," If the people in chat are flaming me then why can't I flame back? The natural response when someone is yelling at you is to yell back so punishing me for NOT being the bigger person is a little weird.

                    The biggest points I'm trying to make is that there's A) no incentive to be nice to A**holes, B) I get punished for doing what would normally be an expected response TO an A**hole, and C) The only situations where my team tells me they're going to report me is when they're friends with the A hole. I rarely get reported unless its 4 guys in a group who wanna screw with the person not in their party, but I'm the one who gets punished bc they're in a group so they won't report the person who is actually toxic.

FlahertyDec 20, 20161 votes

You don't have to be nice to the people, ignoring them is enough, and not being punished for acting in a similar way towards them is the incentive. It may be "normal" to yell back at an asshole irl but that doesn't make it right and it doesn't do anything positive especially in an internet setting where the other person will never feel threatened enough by your words to change. The number of reports doesn't matter, only 1 needs to be made to flag the system and the toxic person you are responding to will most likely report you even if you don't say anything but that won't result in punishment. It's Riot's job to say it's not positive because it's their game/their rules/their chat and they (as well as many others) believe that encouraging someone to respond negatively to negative behavior makes the situation worse rather than better. I understand how you feel, I know it's hard to just not say anything when someone is an asshole to you online, but getting angry and flaming a person back is not a good way to handle those situations. When someone is flaming you in game or trolling you just remember that they are just an angry, unhappy human being irl and feel pity for them. Their words of hate are worthless if you don't give them any value. Responding to anger and hate with anger and hate only increases those feelings inside yourself in the long run.

Ramen226Dec 20, 20161 votes

I agree with xXWUkong partially. I don't think its enough to make them stop but it just doesn't make sense that the system says you have to be twice as good a person as normal in order to play the game normally (aka no leaver busted, chart restrictions, etc.) The system just seems to not effectively punish people for provoking other people but I still get punished for reacting to the provocation. And your point about "It's riots game/chat/rules so you just have to follow them and that's that" isn't an answer as to why they're doing it and doesn't stimulate a good dialogue about what may or may not be wrong with the current system that punishes players. If someone starts a fight you don't blame the guy who defends himself. To use another metaphor: You're in a room with an electric wire hanging from the ceiling and it hurts anyone in the room that touches it. There's also water on the floor that may hurt other people in the room. Do you turn off the power or suck up the water? 90% of the player base is basically water that's going to react to the other 10% that's toxic. Punishing jerks for being jerks the same as punishing people for being people is counterintuitive. Punish the cause of toxicity which is only in certain players and most of it goes away but atm this system only makes people even more angry bc some people feel like they're being wrongly punished.

FlahertyDec 20, 20161 votes

But no one is saying you have to be twice as good or be nice to the person or anything, you simply have to ignore them, you don't have to ask them what's wrong and how are they feeling and be nice and sweet to them in order to not be punished. You just have to not do anything. You can't compare situations over the internet to those in real life conflicts. Of course you should defend yourself if someone is physically attacking you, but these situations are between faceless, anonymous, entities on the internet and with the shield of anonymity people behave differently and respond differently to punishment. But honestly what you're describing isn't even defending yourself really, just verbally attacking back at the person. It should never be normal behavior for someone to start yelling and cussing at someone who did the same thing first. That doesn't accomplish anything productive. I've played games where people don't get punished for saying anything and games where you don't get punished for defending yourself in situations like yours but the result is always worse than this current system. Best case scenario you feel a little better but most often it just makes everyone who has to listen to or read what is being said feel like shit and makes them angry too and they are stuck having to play the game at a massive disadvantage because now two people on their team are having a meaningless internet fight instead of focusing on the game

XinZhao2WinNhaoDec 20, 20161 votes

It makes you feel better

it also lets them know that people don't agree with their actions.

Bullies are social people who seek approval from others. Their victim's silence is sweet. If a bully knows that 9 out of 10 players disapproves of their actions they are likely to get embarrassed and stop.

FlahertyDec 20, 20161 votes

That's how it works irl but online the only way to even know your words are having an effect is if someone is responding to them. Having the person you're abusing yell back at you is 100% proof your words are upsetting them, if they say nothing back to you it either means they don't care or don't even know you're saying anything to them. I have never seen a situation in which someone flaming another person online stopped because people told them to, it almost always has the opposite reaction because now people are going against the bully and they lash out more to hold on to their false sense of power. Being ignored is much more frustrating for the bully than being responded to negatively and just from personal experience I have never felt better after raging back at a person being an asshole to me online.

XinZhao2WinNhaoDec 20, 20161 votes

1 person flaming them back doesn't work.

You need social proof. Convince 9 people to disapprove of his actions. Example:

Riven [all]: Xin called me a "fucking retard". If you think his use of the word "retard" as an insult is offensive, please agree. We need to stop this kind of behavior and show him it's not ok.

Flaming him doesn't work. Getting everyone to decry his behavior is what works.

FlahertyDec 20, 20161 votes

Dude, I have been in that situation SO many times. Everyone telling the one raging person to stop and I've seen it be successful maybe twice. A raging child on the internet doesn't give a fuck what 9 other people tell him, it just makes them be defensive and lash out harder

XinZhao2WinNhaoDec 20, 20161 votes

The thing is that most of the bullies I've met are people who actually are trying to prove something, usually their masculinity or swag, to other people. So if other people disapprove then they usually stop because they realize they're not proving themselves.

FlahertyDec 20, 20161 votes

I'm sure that's true for most people who bully others outside the internet, but it seems most internet "bullies" are simply immature and angry people who want to tear others down to either make themselves feel better or just as a means of letting out frustration