It's preposterous to expect people to only say positive things with the toxicity here

XinZhao2WinNhao·Oct 8, 2016·2 votes·692 views

Now, I'm not saying that cursing someone out shouldn't be punished. If you curse someone's family or make death threats, you deserve a punish, perhaps an even harsher one that's already in place.

But if 2 people are just arguing in chat and wasting time, and you say "stop wasting time, shut up and focus on playing" you're just giving them a wakeup call, you're not actually being toxic. Is it "friendly and positive"? No. Is it a reasonable response? Yes. Is it even helpful? It could actually be. Sometimes people arguing in chat don't have bad intentions, they just get a bit tilted or something. When you tell them that, they might snap out of it and stop yelling.

19 Comments

ModPrandineOct 8, 20162 votes

You don't have to be a good-time Charlie, you just have to try to keep a neutral or positive behavior/demeanor while playing the game. If someone won't stop acting up then just mute, report and move on. You can say something like "Syndra your raging is not helping" and won't get you banned if that's all you said and you said it like that, but saying something like "Syndra stop raging like a noob you noob!" is not helpful or constructive and can get you punished if you continue on with the poor behavior.

Bottom Line: If you don't contribute to the negative environment either chat or gameplay wise then you won't get punished.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 8, 20161 votes

I've been reported for saying "team pls stop arguing". Or "yasuo stop being toxic you're tilting me"

ModPrandineOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've been reported for saying "team pls stop arguing". Or "yasuo stop being toxic you're tilting me"

Being reported and being punished are two different things. If you were punished then it means that:

A) That wasn't all that you said.

AND/OR

B) You said those in a negative way.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 8, 20161 votes

I'm not punished, but I hate getting reported for telling people on my team to act sane and not go full toxic.

ModPrandineOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm not punished, but I hate getting reported for telling people on my team to act sane and not go full toxic.

From Riot Tantram:

Actually, Erdrik is correct here.

A report flags a game for review. They do not establish guilt. The game is then reviewed for harassment, feeding, etc. This is why 'troll reporting' or 'gang reporting' do not work. False or inaccurate reports are thrown out.

You cannot ever be punished for saying nothing .. unless of course it's for something gameplay related like feeding, afking or cheating. But, you can never be punished for offensive language, hate speech or verbal abuse if you said nothing.

CrazyBear1987Oct 8, 20162 votes

"if you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything"

Dominick DestineOct 8, 20161 votes

I tend to agree with the original poster, the current system is absurdly hyper draconian.

CarinaGirmiesOct 8, 20161 votes

It's simple. If you have nothing nice or constructive to say, then don't say it. Also if they report you and you did nothing wrong, then their report won't mean anything.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 8, 20161 votes

It is constructive to tell people who are spamming in the chat to cut it out. most of the people who argue in the chat aren't intentional trolls, they're just people who are tilted/frustrated and venting they just need someone to point out that they're being annoying and that they need to stop.

Its not nice to tell them, but it is helpful and constructive. Sometimes you gotta be assertive even when it's not nice.

SarutobiOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It is constructive to tell people who are spamming in the chat to cut it out. most of the people who argue in the chat aren't intentional trolls, they're just people who are tilted/frustrated and venting they just need someone to point out that they're being annoying and that they need to stop.

Its not nice to tell them, but it is helpful and constructive. Sometimes you gotta be assertive even when it's not nice.

But there is a difference in telling them to cut it out, than going into a temper tantrum. Usually if you say it once it should be ok, if you need to repeat yourself and they dont change well there is nothing you can do so why waste your time?

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 8, 20161 votes

You're making a strawman. Did I ever say a temper tantrum is ok? In fact I said a temper tantrum is not OK.

I'm saying that sometimes you really have to say things that are assertive but not "nice", for example, such as "can we all just pls stfu"

SarutobiOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You're making a strawman. Did I ever say a temper tantrum is ok? In fact I said a temper tantrum is not OK.

I'm saying that sometimes you really have to say things that are assertive but not "nice", for example, such as "can we all just pls stfu"

it may have been severe for my example, but those are usually what people are ban for. Ive never seen someone (at least on these boards) ban for just saying stfu, or telling someone to stop. Its usually more than that.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 8, 20161 votes

Riot has mentioned that saying stfu or similar things is bannable.

I think that sometimes, you need to be assertive, and sometimes that involves saying stfu to someone who just won't shut up with his raging nonsense.

TrulyBlandOct 8, 20161 votes

Have they said it's bannable, or have the said it's considered negative behaviour (or something of the sorts)?

It might sound like nitpicking... but the thing is, that "stfu" is probably on a similar level as "gg ez"... and I've never seen a single person get banned purely for saying that. Ultimately, this is not a black-or-white thing. Behaviour can be negative in varying degrees... and while technically punishable behaviour, "stfu", "gg ez" and the likes would only get your account banned if you spammed them every single game; and probably not even then.

The only time such mild offenses like these become relevant, is when there's already a consistent pattern of negative behaviour, but each offense on its own is not quite enough to merit punishment.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 8, 20161 votes

Negative behavior is bannable to Riot. There is a report category specifically for it that Riot made. Riot wouldn't make that category if it wasn't bannable.

And I'm saying that however mild the punishment is, saying things like "stfu" in the right context such as to stop a fight or tell someone to stop harassing you, there should be NO punishment, not a mild punishment.

It's just like saying "smoking weed has a mild punishment, most people who are arrested for smoking weed have a long criminal record already and are probably also doing something else illegal". Well then just legalize weed and arrest them for other criminal stuff that they're doing, and not for the weed.

TrulyBlandOct 8, 20161 votes

Riot wouldn't make that category if it wasn't bannable.

Yes they would, if it would not create bans on its own but would faciliate being banned for other offenses. But hey, maybe it is technically bannable, that doesn't mean that it has ever or will ever get anybody banned in practice.

The system already only puts punishment onto people when the system is certain enough that you deserve punishment. And probabilistically if somebody keeps telling people to "stfu" in many games, the system can absolutely be more certain that that person deserves punishment. Maybe only a little, but as long as the thresholds are chosen well enough to begin with, including stfu in the large category of negative behaviour will be way way way way way more likely to simply speed up the process for somebody that already deserves punishment than get an innocent punished.

If Riot wasn't as careful as they are when it comes to false positive punishment, I'd agree with you. I'd also agree if Riot manually reviewed everything (mostly because it would also imply that they no longer have to be so careful). But the way it currently is, tiny things like "stfu" and "gg ez" also need to be considered by the system in order to get a more accurate picture of how people behave and what kind of behaviour is generally considered negative by people.

XinZhao2WinNhaoOct 8, 20161 votes

Read my above analogy again.

TrulyBlandOct 8, 20161 votes

Your analogy isn't applicable because law works a lot different from what Riot has for many reasons. I'll try to point them out more precisely this time:

They have an automated system (rather than manual decisions on every single case) that essentially estimates how likely you deserve punishment. As a result of that (and the wish to not constantly punish innocents) that estimate requires multiple offenses in almost every case. (Which is obviously not necessary when everything is manually reviewed). And as a result of that there are things that on their own will not boost the system's confidence in your guilt high enough to get you punished. (Which is obviously not necessary when a single offense is good enough to begin with).

Riot's system needs different checks and balances than the law because they function completely differently. And those checks and balances in turn make it so they require different methods to determine guilt.

scazzmanOct 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

it may have been severe for my example, but those are usually what people are ban for. Ive never seen someone (at least on these boards) ban for just saying stfu, or telling someone to stop. Its usually more than that.

its bannable. but only trolls will actually report you for it