Start taking the report system seriously already

woodvsmurph·May 14, 2018·3 votes·3,808 views

I just lost 2 of my last 3 games... because ONE person on our team (mid one game, adc the 2nd) decided to troll for 2/3 the game when both sides could clearly see that all our team had to do ONCE during that 20-30 min (depending on which match) was group 5 in the CORRECT lane, win one fight which we would win 90% of the time, and end the game.

I'm sick and fed up of selfish assholes throwing the game over and over again through stupid trolling. Of people being allowed to refuse to work with their teammates and do EVERYONE KNOWS is bad... over and over and over again. For 20+ min until the game deciding factor is literally... you had one teammate who decided if they couldn't 1v5 win the game, they were gonna 1v5 throw the game. And before someone comes out with some idiotic "just group in their lane then" - no. No on 2 counts. 1. If we did that, the enemy was in a position to exploit us being on the WRONG location of the map and it would have let them make a comeback - getting far more than we could take and potentially letting them just run it down mid to win. 2. When we DID try that, they'd just run to another lane... or base. Literally refusing to work with us... as I stated.

This kind of retarded play happens way too often to my teammates and me - with one or more people like this on our team. It's not funny. It's not acceptable in RANKED, and it's not being properly addressed.

To put it in terms of another sport... football, this is basically what they are doing... except more frequently. You're down to the final 30 sec of the game. You have a time out left, you're on the other team's 20 yard line. It's 3rd down and you are down by 2 points. You can play it safe, kick a field goal and win the game. You can run one more play - potentially scoring a touchdown, and win the game. You can do one more play to position the ball better for a game-winning field goal, and win the game - using a time out to stop the clock. Or... you can have one person be an asshole and intentionally punt the ball to the other team on 3rd down - ensuring you lose the game. That is the literal equivalent of what my adc/mid did those matches. And no, those aren't the only matches where people have done stuff like that. If someone actually did that in a football match, they'd be fired, kicked off the team, fined, etc. But here in league... in RANKED... "they were just having a bad game" and "they didn't know any better". Bull s h i t.

59 Comments

ChermorgMay 14, 20184 votes

Split pushing is a thing, and you have no right to boss your teammate around. They're allowed to do whatever they think will help win. That isn't necessarily the same thing you think will win.

BijeesnyMay 14, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Split pushing is a thing, and you have no right to boss your teammate around. They're allowed to do whatever they think will help win. That isn't necessarily the same thing you think will win.

I'm sorry, I think I turned into a LeeSin for a moment but, OP didn't mentioned mid and adc split pushed, but they TROLLED and THREW the game, my god, at least read the post carefully before spewing out some random bs,it just makes you look dumb.

ChermorgMay 15, 20184 votes

What the OP considers trolling doesn't necessarily make it trolling. Someone not grouping is not trolling if they're trying to win.

BahtzcrankMay 15, 20183 votes

People intentionally losing is not trolling. Jesus fuck

ChermorgMay 15, 20185 votes

What the OP considers "intentional losing" is not necessarily intentional losing. I could go to your profile and say it looks like you intentionally lost your last 10000 games. Does that make it true?

OP describes multiple instances of teammates "not working with team" and similar. That's not trolling. Nobody is forced to be their team's bitch, and there's no team captain, boss, or coach who gets to make the be all end all shotcalls for the game. Every player has autonomy to decide what they think will help them win the most.

woodvsmurphMay 17, 20181 votes

And there are also levels of intelligence based on your rank.

To put down a dummy simplified example that's not necessarily true but which illustrates the point:

bronze - win lane, win game; group 5 win fight, win game

silver - player x is really strong and can splitpush; we can win by that or by 5v5

gold - player x is really strong, we can let him splitpush so WE can get objectives 4v3 while he baits 2 people or by stalling 4 or 5 enemies while he/she gets objectives and possibly solo kills

plat - same as gold, but add in 1-3-1 and the ability to also play around those players just setting up minion wave pressure and collapsing via walking or tp flanks to get 5v4's and 5v3's with the enemy team deals with side lane pressure

Now, the extent to which players may understand such things or what aspects (there's much more than just 5v5 and splitpush to do in games) players understand may vary. But it should be safe to assume players will know more strategies and perform them better as you climb. So if there are players in silver (nearly gold) who don't understand a strat that literally everyone you run into in bronze 3 or higher knows... then those players are either boosted (playing on bought or stolen account) or they are INTENTIONALLY choosing NOT to play to what they KNOW to be the best win condition (or at least better than the one they have tried and failed at for 10+ min). Thus, it can be SAFELY stated that said players are either boosted or INTENTIONALLY sabotaging their team's efforts to win... both of which should result in fairly immediate punishment. Now granted, maybe it's a strat that they are unfamiliar with - cuz not everyone has the same knowledge or strenths going into a match or to the same DEGREE. While this is true and could THEORETICALLY be used to support your argument, there is also this going against it:

As you learn more and climb, you will learn new things faster. Simple strats and ideas will be easier to pick up on or even combine due to your increased knowledge base upon which you can draw and your better mechanics. Thus, a simple strat such as 4-1 splitpush even if NEVER BEFORE ENCOUNTERED would be fairly easy for a player to pick up on after reaching a certain elo. A 1-3-1 has more nuances and greater challenges, so that would typically (but not always) require a higher elo still. But if a player climbs high enough... they eventually will have to have some basic ability to play around said concept. I don't think we can find a player in challenger who isn't knowledgeable or willing to learn how to play around such a concept as 1-3-1 for instance. Now I use this as an example to support my earlier point. While you wouldn't be able to excuse your way out of being garbage at or refusing to play 1-3-1 in challenger if that's what the team wanted, you would be able to in silver or maybe even gold. Why? Because while it's a concept that does exist at said elo, it's relatively difficult for many players of that elo to grasp. So how does this support my earlier point? I'm glad you asked. As I mentioned earlier, there are some SIMPLE concepts that exist at each rank/elo. Strats that 99% of players have at least heard of and probably attempted to execute. Stuff that entirely fits within the range of skills, intelligence, macro ability, and mechanics a player HAS to have in order to have HONESTLY (not illegally/cheating) climbed to said elo. This sphere of strats grows bigger and more diverse as you climb - faster for some players, but there is a minimum threshold for each elo/rank. Players thus failing to meet said minimum threshold for their rank/elo are either: boosted illegally (against terms of service for Riot games) or INTENTIONALLY refusing to execute a "simple" (for their elo) strat which they ARE capable of doing... in favor of doing a strat THEY and everyone else knows to be vastly inferior and for which they've gathered ample evidence (10+ min of falling more and more behind or outright feeding) to PROVE is a bad strat. Thus, players refusing to even give an HONEST effort into trying something different (especially when their whole team wants to try it) would be INTENTIONALLY sabotaging their team's efforts to win the match - aka intentional feeding and/or griefing. This is considered a very serious offense at high elo - and challenger players and master tier players were thoroughly investigated for around a month or more at the end of a season to spot this type of "win trading". To ignore it in lower ranks purely because they aren't master or challenger tier and/or because you don't have to buy them a jacket for their rank is just poor standards by Riot games.

The rest of the players make up more than 90% of the player base. We are the ones who keep the company alive - through our buying rp for in game stuff, through playing the game to keep in popular, and through purchasing of esports tickets and providing the viewership of esports events online. To treat such players as though they do not matter and do not deserve an honest and fair match in what is supposed to be a competitive game mode is unacceptable of a company. Think about how much effort they CLAIMED to put into making clash have competitive integrity - that's exactly what SHOULD be done with RANKED. Ranked solo queue is basically clash w/o having a 5 man premade. Premade 5v5 ranked is basically what clash SHOULD be or vice versa... with clash maybe representing tournaments they can have for ranked 5's on a semi-regular basis. But with the complete lack of effort to make ranked play have competitive integrity... many people just laughed at Riot's whole article about how serious they were taking competitive integrity in clash. But if actual integrity and semi-balanced matchmaking can be achieved in clash...then why isn't this level of action being taken for RANKED. Why do you NEED to join 4 other strangers and/or friends in order to have a CHANCE at having an honestly balanced match? And if they aren't going to treat ranked seriously below master tier or so... then why the hell do we have ranked AND regular pvp? Just get rid of ranked and have regular pvp and clash - with an updated clash so that solo players and smaller groups can team up with other appropriately skilled groups to make 5 man rosters. Because otherwise it's redundant... you have regular pvp, you have regular pvp (also known as ranked) and then you have clash.

The fact that you have posts every year by actual plats and diamonds talking about some games in silver being unwinnable...

The fact that I can be a gold player and for 2 years in a row climb to mid silver, have my elo tank from 90% loss rate (despite winning or going even in lane in 85%+ of those matches and teamfight and splitpush better than any one other player in the game for either team; while being tilted from 90% loss rate) to drop from something like silver 3 99lp to silver 5 0lp...

The fact that hundreds of others post about similar challenges and frustrations on the boards... every season...

etc.

Points to the fact that this isn't a few people bullshitting or a minor problem only experienced by say... 0.5% of the player base. Some people get lucky and avoid most of this. Some people don't play enough games to run into it. Others still avoid ranked specifically to not have to deal with this. But others of us actually enjoy being challenged by opponents of similar skill level to us and learning better how to play new strats and perfect old strats either solo, duo, or with a full team. And when we are getting multiple games IN A ROW of complete trolls singlehandedly ruining matches and playing far below what we KNOW to be the SKILL FLOOR (minimum standard) for our elo - thanks to having CLIMBED to our current elo HONESTLY - we get fed up with it. When it happens on a weekly basis - if not daily - to an inexcusably stupid level of performance by one OR MORE team members, well then Riot is failing to make an honest effort to adequately balance ranked and to properly punish players who are clearly undeserving of playing in what is SUPPOSED to be a game mode with competitive integrity and people putting their honest best effort into winning. And you can take THAT to the bank and cash it. [vayne-pose]

woodvsmurphMay 23, 20181 votes

Sorry for posting this kinda randomly in the conversation, but it's real long and I just added it here to save time instead of looking for last place in the discussion.

Anyways, here's another look at just what people actually think about "feeding/inting" with some examples - I put it in meme's and games as a sarcastic post, but apparently most people think it was meant to be taken literally - and you can see their reaction...

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/memes/WTErcEKG-i-wasnt-inting

Earlier I also made a real-world comparison to what I actually define as intentional feeding and argued for the opposite (claiming it wasn't) and this is what I got for responses:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/OLN5lIA1-my-friend-lost-his-job

With the league-based counterpart explaining the whole social experiment here:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/7vH3eXdG-social-experiment-on-how-the-community-views-intentional-feeders-relocated-on-riot-suggestion?comment=000000000000000000000000000000000000

As you can see - most people on the boards are very fickle; they change sides whenever it suits their needs. They either lack the intelligence or the honestly to give a fair opinion on the subject of intentional feeding. Arguing to protect the intentional feeder... unless it's THEM having one on their team. Arguing it's NOT intentional feeding unless THEY are the one being screwed over. Arguing it's NOT okay in real life, but in a COMPETITIVE mode (arguably should have the same competitive integrity as clash - over which Riot stressed so much about competitive integrity) it's okay. Fickle and hypocritical people like that don't have any business deciding on if something is inting or not nor what should be done about it. People with intelligence and unbiased opinions who examine the FACTS and make a decision regardless of if said person is a teammate or on the other team, a friend or a stranger - THOSE people have the right to discuss if someone is inting or not and what should be done about it.

Obviously if I can defend a complete stranger who is 1/10/2 as not inting (if they weren't, but were screwed by their teammates - even when it costs me a win) while I can simultaneously call inting on a 10/10/5 teammate who is kill hunting and dying for no reason at cost of us ending the game when we can guaranteed ace the other team 5v5 and win in one fight... then I am not biased. If I can admit that I've inted (feed needlessly and repeatedly) in games and would not blame others for reporting me (if it's actual inting and not just being screwed over by teammates), then I am not biased. If I can identify someone with a horrible or good kda as inting or not - based off actual actions in-game and not merely by kda; with "inting" status or "not inting" status sometimes being the opposite of what kda would suggest, then I can clearly differentiate "inting" vs "having a bad game". If I give people a fair chance - we all screw up sometimes - and let them try their failing strat multiple times before getting after them to try something else, then I'm not being too quick to judge. I'm being more than reasonable in allowing for honest mistakes and newer players learning (or having the chance to learn at least). Thus, someone like myself (not exclusively me - I'm sure there's plenty of other honest players out there) is exactly the type of person who IS qualified to claim someone is inting or isn't.

Compared to how it was when I first played ranked, I'm much more understanding and mild mannered than most people. When I first played... new players got thrown to support pretty much every game. When you screwed up or even appeared to have screwed up... you immediately got called a noob or worse. You make a mistake more than 2 times? Even the nicest teammate would let you know somewhat harshly that you'd fucked up and it wouldn't be tolerated. And you know what? It didn't matter (apart from racial/religious/sexist) comments what they said; they wouldn't be punished in the slightest. You would be at risk of punishment... because you'd fucked up. Now I'm glad we are past those times and people are expected to be more tolerant of each other's mistakes, but we are also being far too tolerant of things that are not "honest" nor "mistakes". That needs to stop. Do I expect to be able to flame some guy for dying 3x straight picking a fight 2v2 or 1v1 and losing each time? No. But I do expect that if I ask him to "pls just play safe and farm up" or "pls just hug tower and farm; you can't win that fight" that said player listen to reason (and the evidence of their past 3 failures) and not continue doing something that ruins our chances of winning. As much as it is reasonable to ask me to be civilized compared to what I put up with when I started ranked, it is just as reasonable to expect a teammate to be capable of not continuing to do something that VERY CLEARLY hurts themselves and their team while gaining them nothing. It's not an issue of one time mistakes or even thinking maybe you messed up slightly the first time - so the 2nd time if you're clean, you will win. It's repetitive taking of losing strats where there can be no possible sane argument made that it is a good call. When literally no party can make anything even resembling a valid or even PLAUSIBLE argument that a strat is a good one (much less the best one), then doing that strat further (until conditions change which may/may not make it viable - such as items, levels, hp advantage, mana advantage, numbers advantage, etc.) is both intentional on the part of the player and feeding. Such play was not acceptable in the past, is severely criticized in pro play, would get you kicked off clash team (cuz it's competitive) and SHOULD NOT be tolerated in RANKED play (supposed to be competitive the way the new clash is being touted as competitive).

The answer is very simple. While not all cases of people being reported as inting are valid, there are valid cases and almost none of them are being acted on properly. It doesn't matter if said player is 20/20/10 or 0/10/2... inting is intentional feeding and SHOULD NOT be allowed. This is proved as inting through repetitive action in game which (through the CONSISTENT RESULTS of said action) is proven to be harmful to the player and/or their team while offering no (or no equal/greater) beneficial advantage elsewhere (to said player and/or their team). People are allowed mistakes, but if they are making an honest effort to help their team, they will adjust their play if the results of their actions consistently are negative overall. The adjusted play may or may not be what their teammates want, but it better be something different and plausible as an attempt to improve/adjust their play. Failing to do this when given a large number of chances verifiably proves a player to either be incompetent at said rank (so they bought or stole their account or had someone boost them there) or that they are intentionally sabotaging their teammates' efforts to win the game (win-trading to stay at their current rank where they are smurfing rather than attempting to climb to their proper elo). The first of which is against terms of service and got a few professionals banned from competitive play. The latter of which was thoroughly investigated in high elo play - with any guilty members being denied their challenger jackets for throwing games so that other people wouldn't get demoted from challenger - so again... punishable/punished. These standards are being held up in high elo... why would the standards be removed and such poor actions be deemed acceptable purely because the players are not professional or challenger or a jacket involved? That is poor quality standards by a company in any industry. To ask that people be held accountable and that the same standards (within reason) apply to all people is to ask for equity. Not equality - equity. We don't all need to be blind, deaf, mute cripples with mental handicaps; but we should expect that everyone be given a fair shake regardless of if they are one or more of the above. In other words... those same standards against boosting and win-trading should apply regardless of elo.[sg-ezreal]

BijeesnyMay 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

What the OP considers trolling doesn't necessarily make it trolling. Someone not grouping is not trolling if they're trying to win.

How do you know they were trying to win? Were you in the game with him? Were you watching the replay? Your comments are just disrespectful and mocking at this point, if you don't have any valid proof that people OP dexcribed actually TRIED TO WIN, with all due respect, keep your mouth shut. Again, you're just making yourself look stupid.

ChermorgMay 15, 20183 votes

The OP has provided 0 proof they weren't trying to win, yet he is the one calling for punishment.

That's not how justice works. Guilt must be proven, innocence is assumed.

BijeesnyMay 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The OP has provided 0 proof they weren't trying to win, yet he is the one calling for punishment.

That's not how justice works. Guilt must be proven, innocence is assumed.

OP. Was. In. The. Game. With. Them. You. Didn't. Who to trust? OP, who was, once again, in the game with them and he saw what they were doing, or you, who weren't in the game with OP?

BahtzcrankMay 15, 20182 votes

Theres no winning with this company. Im switching to DOTA already this game is fucking dead. People are allowed to ruin a game for 4 people that you are stuck playing for +40 minutes but dont you dare be a meanie

BijeesnyMay 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Send Lewdz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UFqneBdH,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-15T12:01:56.655+0000)

Theres no winning with this company. Im switching to DOTA already this game is fucking dead. People are allowed to ruin a game for 4 people that you are stuck playing for +40 minutes but dont you dare be a meanie

I wouldn't be suprised if people start to get permabanned if they say 'I hope you step on a Lego.' xd

ChermorgMay 15, 20185 votes

Again, the burden of proof is on OP to establish they were or were not trolling. While his witness statement is certainly decent evidence, witnesses are not perfect and especially in League they suffer from confirmation bias quite a bit.

The bottom line is that whether you like it or not, calling someone a troll because they don't group is not going to be punished. You need to prove someone is a troll, not just call them a troll.

woodvsmurphMay 23, 20181 votes

So... They died 1v1 to a 0/8/0 zed just to trade farming 2 minion waves with said zed, and then lose a tower due to dying and us being 4v4 and unable to teamfight due to them having fed all laning phase by forcing fights by the enemy tower when they were 0/5/0 vs a 10/0/0 enemy adc. So we are falling behind and bleeding out 4v4, but have potential to win a teamfight if they group; but they won't group.

They split more, the keep having the same thing happen - die to literally anyone who goes to split vs them and they don't push the wave to where they can threaten enemy towers... which means we just lose out in side lane where they are splitting and... due to cc and aoe burst we cannot teamfight w/o their dps from safety of not having to worry about the enemy's burst and/or cc due to us melee's being the focus of all such damage and cc - giving them time to free fire and rack up shutdown kills if they'd only grouped. But lacking that damage, we can't commit to such an engage because either we will for sure get wrecked w/o their reliable dps or because we take an unnecessary huge risk by doing so - one which GUARANTEED loses us the game if it fails even once. This leaves the 4 man group losing any advantages we had while not gaining our adc anything AND putting the enemy splitpusher ahead. Thus, they are screwing both themselves and their entire TEAM by continuing to do something the KNOW fails from the 15+ min of doing it and failing.

And if that's not enough to convince someone then they are too dumb to be deciding whether something is inting or not. Furthermore, I am regularly camped by the enemy jg for 15+ min in laning phase - and they aren't shy about blowing flash even if it only stands the chance of chunking me out to where I have to base and miss a minion wave - just to keep their laner from feeding vs me. Add to this my opponents generally getting to counter-pick me and taking laning summoners like ignite vs my tp and I should be hella feeding (like 0/20/0) in lane if I performed at the caliber said teammate(s) does. But I end up being even in cs and up in kills or ahead in cs and even in kills... in a nearly non-stop 1v2 (sometimes 1v3) where I can't even ward because they are constantly cleared with enemy control wards or sweepers. So... if I can pull that shit off and I think it's reasonable to expect a teammate to back the fuck off and play safe if they are losing 1v1 or 2v2 and not turn a 2/0/0 enemy laner into a 10/0/0 enemy during laning phase. If I can 1v2 keep a fed enemy adc and support in check and minimize or prevent them taking towers to give my team a 4v3 advantage elsewhere - without feeding - I think it reasonable that my adc should be smart enough to not 1v1 split vs an opponent who can 1-shot them with 2 spells or auto attacks over and over again. They should be smart enough to try something different... especially when a simple, solid, understandable-to-bronze-5-players option is given to them... and in a NICE manner too.

If I can regularly recognize when I have the opportunity to get off an engage that I KNOW will cost my life but win my team the teamfight decisively or... stop an enemy kha and nasus from basing at the cost of my life by delaying them for 2+ min by myself isolated to take max kha damage (because that's where I have to fight them to stop them) in order to let my team 4v0 end the game... then I think it reasonable to expect a teammate to group their ass up and end if that's the best option for ending the game and their "alternative" has failed say... 5+ times already.

If I am that smart... I'd say I can judge pretty damn well if someone is inting or if they are just having a bad game. I've had games where my bot lane goes 1/10/2 and got flamed hard by my mid or jg or both, but I defended them because they weren't inting. They were being 4v2'd the whole laning phase because my mid just fed and then sat afk at tower - not punishing the enemy mid for roaming and my jg afk farmed for 20+ min. I can tp bot some, but not every 1.5 min. If that's happening to my bot lane at 4 min into the game... for the entire laning phase and they are hugging tower - playing as SAFELY as POSSIBLE for their elo - I will defend them because that's not inting. So again, I stress - I know inting when I see it. I know having a bad game when I see it. It's really not that difficult to understand the difference if you pay attention to the details. But for fear of potentially punishing one innocent player... we do nothing to punish even those who are clearly 100% guaranteed inting. Instead allowing such players to get away with not only inting, but also flaming or otherwise harassing teammates... just because said teammate asks them to do something like: "pls ward when you push" "just hug tower and farm, we can win this"

And when people are consistently held in check say... 1v2 while getting no help from their team while their teammate(s) throw away a perfectly winnable game because they don't ever just listen or calm down or play smart and STOP repeating the same losing strategy that is putting them behind... AND you add in said people flaming and harassing said person winning or going even while being denied any agency (due to being camped and given no help - when they could snowball if given 2v2 for example)... THAT is how you end up with so many angry "toxic" players. Get called garbage, noob, selfish (for pressuring in a 1v2 and expecting your team not to int 4v3... because in said scenario you hella lose 5v5 - confirmed by 2+ teamfights), lectured by people with no skill, feeder (when you have better kda than them), and a coward for not suiciding 2v5 to stop an objective take that you have no chance of stopping in order to give your team a chance to defend your inhib tower or nexus... and you end up with said player snapping at their team eventually. Be it after 20+ min of constant harass and betrayal by teammates or 20 games in a row of said stuff happening... eventually everyone reaches a breaking point and will snap back at their teammates for inting and flaming or otherwise harassing them. And that shit does get punished; I can attest to that first hand. But if you'd been in my shoes... experiencing what I had, you would have either quit league or used Rito connections to get rid of said teammates. You'd be arguing for exactly what I have argued for. Get rid of the SOURCE problem - intentionally feeding teammates who flame or otherwise harass people - but in ways ifs won't pick up on and punish; instead of acting like the ultimate problem with league is flamers who report teammates for inting and (after much provocation and ill treatment by said players) people who snap back at teammates for said poor treatment.

I've never argued that flaming or harassing anyone is ok. But if it is to be punished so swiiftly and regularly... the only fair and honest thing to do is to punish with equal swiftness and regularity the inting and harassment that causes such poor behavior from the person snapping. Do this like it SHOULD be handled and... you'd find out most of those "toxic" players who snap at their teammates are actually kind and reasonable people - even super helpful and encouraging - if they just don't have to regularly be denied any agency in a game while a teammate(s) of theirs solo decides the game by doing the same stupid shit that they KNOW is only hurting themselves and their team the whole game. I 100% guarantee so much "toxicity" would disappear if only the source problem were properly dealt with. Stop defending the guilty at the cost of the innocent.[zombie-brand-clap]

Pika FoxMay 15, 20183 votes

OP was in the game with them. Doesnt mean OP is right. Why should i care about the OPs opinion? Hes not shown he deserves my cares.

BijeesnyMay 16, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=UFqneBdH,comment-id=0001000000000001000000000002,timestamp=2018-05-15T14:15:40.941+0000)

OP was in the game with them. Doesnt mean OP is right. Why should i care about the OPs opinion? Hes not shown he deserves my cares.

Than why r u commenting on this post if you don't care lmao

PaintchipMay 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

What the OP considers trolling doesn't necessarily make it trolling. Someone not grouping is not trolling if they're trying to win.

No, it is trolling. The OP is ‘t the only person who endures this.

ChermorgMay 15, 20184 votes

It is not trolling unless you can prove they're intentionally trying to lose the game. Saying they didn't group doesn't come anywhere near that burden of proof.

KanzlerMay 15, 20182 votes

{quoted}

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Honestly, how are you still a mod with such a high frequency of shit posting?

We all know people troll and refuse to cooperate with their team to the point of frustration.

ChermorgMay 15, 20186 votes

Refusing to do what your team says is NOT trolling. No person on the team is the captain. Everyone is permitted to make their own decision as to what will help the team win. Simply thinking that not grouping is better is not trolling.

KanzlerMay 15, 20182 votes

Have you ever considered that you might be wrong? All your opinions on trolling receive so many downvotes that they get burried.

It's a team game so let me give you another example. Say you're playing baseball and one of your outfielders is standing in the very corner because he thinks that will help his team win. Sure, a broken clock is right twice a day, but most of the balls hit in his direction result in runs because he is no where near useful in his position. Is he within his rights to stand there? Sure. Will his team be pissed and bench him every chance they get if he doesnt start being a better teammate? Most likely.

As I've said many times, you just parrot black and white policy. Take a moment to think about context. After all, if trolling was so easily judged, the IFS would catch it already.

I'm not speaking about this instance specifically as I havent seen anything but the OPs story. However, teammates who refuse to cooperate in general with the other 4 members is really frustrating when they aren't actually contributing anything on their own.

Now, please stop being a mod.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20183 votes

Playing badly is not punishable.

KanzlerMay 15, 20181 votes

Showing a habit of refusing to coordinate and intentionally not helping your team win is what we are calling trolling. That is punishable.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20184 votes

Too subjective, still no. No one cares about what you think is trolling, and thats why people think the system doesnt work. "Wtf that guy who had a bad game i reported didnt get banned for inting?" Of course not, because thats not at all what happened, else youd probably be the first banned.

KanzlerMay 15, 20182 votes

Read the 3rd word of my previous post. As with any punishment, barring extreme exceptions, behavior requires a pattern before it is punished. I dont believe I indicated that someone should be punished for a bad play or two, but it's hard to defend the guy farming wolves while the enemy is pushing 5v4 on your inhibitor.

Overwatch does a far better job of punishing bad teammates who refuse to cooperate with the team, so it's not really a widespread issue.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20182 votes

Its actually pretty easy to defend the guy farming wolves: being bad is not reportable. Easily defended.

ChermorgMay 15, 20182 votes

A 4v5 is easy to defend if your team comp is anywhere near decent. He can either make the defense slightly better, or farm to maybe get that next item, or be going through jungle warding if the inhib is sure to fall so your team can prepare to contest baron or drag if they head there after.

Just because it is not what you consider optimal does not mean they are trolling. There is no one path to victory in League, as evidenced by the vastly different starts to all pro games.

Maybe if you put all this effort you spend complaining about them into actually trying to work with this teammate with a different idea, you'd find they really are helping the team but they felt ignored by you and so decided to just go do their own thing.

KanzlerMay 15, 20181 votes

Maybe in low silver. Please explain what exactly that wolf farmer is contributing as the inhibitor gets knocked down. Also please explain why 4 people must play around 1 person, instead of the 1 person coordinating with their team?

ChermorgMay 15, 20182 votes

That wolf farmer may not be contributing to inhibitor defense. But if they think inhibitor is going to fall anyway, what's better? Stay around and lose inhibitor while not gaining any gold/XP, or farm and ward jungle, gaining vision, gold, and XP?

If they thought farming was more beneficial, that's their decision, just as you thought them being at inhibitor was.

Lastly, nobody has to work with anyone else. You don't have to work with them, they don't have to work with you. But if you don't try to work with them, you shouldn't expect them to try to work with you. Teams fall apart when one person or a group decides they're suddenly the best League player in the world and only their way or idea will work.

KanzlerMay 15, 20182 votes

And when 4 people want that 1 person to help defend?

When 4 people dont want you to experiment with Nami jungle in ranked?

When 4 people want you to actually help the team win?

ChermorgMay 15, 20182 votes

The beauty of League is there's more than one way to win.

You aren't the team captain. You don't get to force others to play your way.

BijeesnyMay 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Lastly, nobody has to work with anyone else. You don't have to work with them, they don't have to work with you. But if you don't try to work with them, you shouldn't expect them to try to work with you. Teams fall apart when one person or a group decides they're suddenly the best League player in the world and only their way or idea will work.

And that's why players are complaining that this game is too much 'team oriented'. You can't have a 'team oriented game' if some1 decides they won't work with you. That's why players are frustrated. Why should some1 be forced to spend his time trying to play without that one guy who refuses to work with his team for various reasons? If this Riot want this game to be truly 'team oriented' then it's only logical to punish those who refuse to work with the team, as retarded as it sounds. Either that or bring back the ability to solo carry.

But the main point is, you can't have team oriented game full of players who doesn't feel like working with a team. That just doesn't work.

ChermorgMay 16, 20181 votes

{quoted}

And that's why players are complaining that this game is too much 'team oriented'. You can't have a 'team oriented game' if some1 decides they won't work with you. That's why players are frustrated. Why should some1 be forced to spend his time trying to play without that one guy who refuses to work with his team for various reasons? If this Riot want this game to be truly 'team oriented' then it's only logical to punish those who refuse to work with the team, as retarded as it sounds. Either that or bring back the ability to solo carry.

But the main point is, you can't have team oriented game full of players who doesn't feel like working with a team. That just doesn't work.

Working as a team means working towards the common goal of winning. It is expected and logical that sometimes a team my have different ideas of how best to win. That's unavoidable.

It's a team game, yes, but players have their autonomy - just like how the quarterback doesn't have to throw it to the guy screaming at him flailing his arms. Just as how the goalie doesn't have to play the puck if he doesn't think it'll help. Yes, everyone works towards the same goal- but everyone also ha their own ideas on how best to get there.

woodvsmurphMay 17, 20181 votes

Ok, let's play a game theoretically here and see how enjoyable it is. You are jungle udyr, I am nasus top.

I take smite. I tell you it's to steal enemy jg when I push to tower early. But I steal your red buff after leashing for you level 1 and making you tank all the damage. I ping to steal the enemy blue - cuz I feel bad and want to help you after accidentally stealing your red with my q. So we invade, and I smite away blue - you don't use smite because you believed it was an accident. You've been tanking the whole time. So you are still level 1, no hp left, and I have double buffs. Also, I am spotted walking to top, so the enemy jg easily knows to farm your blue before you can recall and walk there. After shoving my lane out, I walk to raptors and take them before you can get there - leaving you with wolves and gromp to farm and an easy 2+ levels behind the other jungler. I actually let my opponent free farm lane and only go to lane to cs when I see you coming to steal my xp and cs. Otherwise I farm your jungle and steal your buffs because of my q damage and being higher level so I can out-smite you. I do this because "I'm trying to stay safe" during my weak early game and avoid enemy ganks. I'm also trying to help my team by ensuring you are forced to gank - since you have half your jungle stolen by me constantly. Thus, you are easily level 4 max while the enemy has his second double buffs and is level 7. You can't gank because you are a level or 2 down on every laner - including the enemy support. You have no way to catch up without screwing over your teammates. You lose the other half of your jungle because the enemy jg lives there and kills you for just peeking to see if a camp is up for you to farm. This happens the entire game - you end 0/15/2 and get flamed by your teammates for being a useless jg who can't even gank or know how to farm jg camps. Meanwhile everyone honors me - nasus - cuz I gank to help them out a few times, because I have great kda, and because I say dumb shit to make fun of you and make everyone else feel like they are doing good.

You having fun yet? You gonna report me? But I didn't do anything wrong. A little "friendly" jesting is acceptable. And taking all your stuff and screwing you over? That was just me playing to win "how I 'knew' best". Too bad my jg was too noob to help anyone. Oh what's that? I should know better? I HAVE to be smarter than to actually think that was a good strategy after seeing how screwed you were in the first 10 minutes to keep doing it all game? Nope - doesn't matter this is gold elo and a bronze 3 player would know better. You're just trash and you can't report me because I did nothing wrong. In fact... YOU should be reported... for trying to force other people to play the way YOU think is best. Clearly from your kda, cs, etc. you have no clue.

What's that? My scenario is illogical and I'm wrong as nasus in that scenario? I would get reported and punished because that is unacceptable behavior at that elo and in a ranked game? You'd make sure of it because you have connections at Riot? Oh, that's cute. So you do have a brain. So there is a level of logic and minimum skill/intelligence a player is supposed to have... which increases with rank. Wow, it's almost starting to sound like you are on... on... on my side. That players doing stupid crap over and over again and costing their teammates any chance of winning is... not ok.That if something has clearly failed over and over again... players logically KNOW that repeating that same play/tactic again and again will NOT work and WILL screw their team over. That people who intentionally do said screwing over of their teammates... should get punished. Damn... you DO get it now.

ChermorgMay 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ok, let's play a game theoretically here and see how enjoyable it is. You are jungle udyr, I am nasus top.

I take smite. I tell you it's to steal enemy jg when I push to tower early. But I steal your red buff after leashing for you level 1 and making you tank all the damage. I ping to steal the enemy blue - cuz I feel bad and want to help you after accidentally stealing your red with my q. So we invade, and I smite away blue - you don't use smite because you believed it was an accident. You've been tanking the whole time. So you are still level 1, no hp left, and I have double buffs. Also, I am spotted walking to top, so the enemy jg easily knows to farm your blue before you can recall and walk there. After shoving my lane out, I walk to raptors and take them before you can get there - leaving you with wolves and gromp to farm and an easy 2+ levels behind the other jungler. I actually let my opponent free farm lane and only go to lane to cs when I see you coming to steal my xp and cs. Otherwise I farm your jungle and steal your buffs because of my q damage and being higher level so I can out-smite you. I do this because "I'm trying to stay safe" during my weak early game and avoid enemy ganks. I'm also trying to help my team by ensuring you are forced to gank - since you have half your jungle stolen by me constantly. Thus, you are easily level 4 max while the enemy has his second double buffs and is level 7. You can't gank because you are a level or 2 down on every laner - including the enemy support. You have no way to catch up without screwing over your teammates. You lose the other half of your jungle because the enemy jg lives there and kills you for just peeking to see if a camp is up for you to farm. This happens the entire game - you end 0/15/2 and get flamed by your teammates for being a useless jg who can't even gank or know how to farm jg camps. Meanwhile everyone honors me - nasus - cuz I gank to help them out a few times, because I have great kda, and because I say dumb shit to make fun of you and make everyone else feel like they are doing good.

You having fun yet? You gonna report me? But I didn't do anything wrong. A little "friendly" jesting is acceptable. And taking all your stuff and screwing you over? That was just me playing to win "how I 'knew' best". Too bad my jg was too noob to help anyone. Oh what's that? I should know better? I HAVE to be smarter than to actually think that was a good strategy after seeing how screwed you were in the first 10 minutes to keep doing it all game? Nope - doesn't matter this is gold elo and a bronze 3 player would know better. You're just trash and you can't report me because I did nothing wrong. In fact... YOU should be reported... for trying to force other people to play the way YOU think is best. Clearly from your kda, cs, etc. you have no clue.

What's that? My scenario is illogical and I'm wrong as nasus in that scenario? I would get reported and punished because that is unacceptable behavior at that elo and in a ranked game? You'd make sure of it because you have connections at Riot? Oh, that's cute. So you do have a brain. So there is a level of logic and minimum skill/intelligence a player is supposed to have... which increases with rank. Wow, it's almost starting to sound like you are on... on... on my side. That players doing stupid crap over and over again and costing their teammates any chance of winning is... not ok.That if something has clearly failed over and over again... players logically KNOW that repeating that same play/tactic again and again will NOT work and WILL screw their team over. That people who intentionally do said screwing over of their teammates... should get punished. Damn... you DO get it now.

You'd be punished here not for your actions but because you refused to play your role.

Being bad at the game is not punishable. Refusing to play your assigned role is.

ChermorgMay 15, 20183 votes

You are calling it trolling. Riot has said repeatedly that a team cannot force a player to play a specific way. Riot has said it's not trolling. Thus, it's not trolling.

KanzlerMay 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Caw. Polly wants a cracker. Caw

ChermorgMay 15, 20183 votes

Insulting people doesn't change the reality, and in fact is likely to make people take your view less seriously. I'm happy to have a discussion on how you think intent can be proven, but if you're just going to respond by saying "I don't like it so it should be banned" and insulting others that can't happen.

KanzlerMay 15, 20181 votes

When you just parrot a policy as an argument as to why a policy is good, you aren't contributing much which is why I'm highly critical of your contributions.

The only evidence that is good enough for you in regards to trolling is a written confession. That just doesn't happen in most cases.

If you want to split push, fine, it is clearly a strategy towards winning, even if not executed correctly. The focus of my arguments is on a teammate that doesn't contribute towards winning and refuses to cooperate with the team, like farming wolves as your base gets destroyed, like "splitpushing" where all you do is run it down top.

I agree it is more difficult prove, but to make a blanket "bad game" statement is naive.

Tl;dr contribution and coordination

PaintchipMay 15, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It is not trolling unless you can prove they're intentionally trying to lose the game. Saying they didn't group doesn't come anywhere near that burden of proof.

Nvm. You are like a broken record. You religiously defend trolls and toxic people, while behaving in an extreamly toxic fashion yourself. You belittle people for acting out in frustration, while defending those who engage in frustrating behavior in the first place.

And by “defending”, I mean you continually ignore them as the potential problem.

It is disturbing that you are a community “advisor” on these boards, you routinely display toxic snd somewhat hostile behavior to people often just seeking advice or opinions.

Bruh, put the keyboard down and step outside once on awhile. Everything isn’t black and white as you seem to believe. And yes, Riot’s so called player behavior system is screwed up. It misses the real toxic problems that causes alot of people to just snap sometimes.

woodvsmurphMay 17, 20181 votes

Tell that to my teammates... who regularly report and flame me for splitpushing on an actual splitpush champ while 1v2 and actually having TELEPORT to join the team if that is more useful at the moment than splitting.

No - splitpushing is NOT always ok - regardless of what champ you are playing. You do YOUR HONEST BEST to help your team win. If you have tried for 10 min to splitpush but you can't even survive any 1v1 vs the multiple opponents they can choose from to split against you... you don't splitpush. The multiple failures... the falling behind and feeding... just proves via REAL evidence that this is a bad strat. Thus, any logical person - be they bronze or challenger - will ADAPT. Only players who are TRYING to throw will continue to do so when they KNOW they have no business splitting. Now, it's entirely different if you're being jumped by 2+ enemies BECAUSE your teammates aren't pulling THEIR weight as the 4 man unit or 3 man unit (in a 1-3-1). If that's what's happening, then it isn't you inting; however, you would still try something else BECAUSE you know it's not working even if it's NOT your fault.

If your teammates have consistently made shitty shotcalls and decisions the entire game - proving themselves incapable of making decisions or shotcalls, then they SHOULD and WILL listen to someone making better shotcalls CONSISTENTLY if they are making an HONEST effort to win. I will go along with my teammates' inferior shotcalls most games for awhile if that's what the team wants... because it's a TEAM game. But, if we've tried their same stuff for 10+ min and gotten nothing but a bunch of fed enemies... it's time THEY show ME the same courtesy and TRY something else... maybe like listening to my ideas and TRYING them a couple times. It can't hurt anyone more than what their strats have and it MIGHT help. If not me, then at least someone else on the team who hasn't been making horrible calls and getting wrecked because of them all game. No, they don't HAVE to listen... but if they are going to honestly claim they put their BEST EFFORT into winning - and didn't intentionally feed all game - then they DO have to listen and exhaust all possibilities until/unless we find a winning one(s). Sherlock Holmes doesn't investigate one possibility, find out it's wrong, and keep repeating the same investigation over and over again. He investigates other possibilities until he finds the answer. Diplomats who honestly want to come to an agreement make compromises and revisions to their offers/proposals in order to accommodate all parties involved TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES. They might not be willing to concede certain things, but others they will change or change the nature/angle of their offer until they arrive at their goal or as close to it as they can manage. They don't run to the table with the same offer over and over and over and over again and again... and HONESTLY expect some new result. Sure some do try the same strat over and over again... but those people are doing the offer just for show... and the world largely knows that. And the other sides involved in the negotiation learn that pretty quickly and typically have the same response as before... leading to the same result. Thus, again... we see that more than one approach must be taken if the first one fails (especially repeatedly fails) if a different result is desired. Thus... if said teammate truly wants to win... they must take another approach than the one they've taken multiple times only to have it utterly and painfully fail every time. If they don't take a different approach, they are in favor of the bad outcome (thus inting/griefing). Ta da... simple logic to arrive at a correct conclusion - backed up by real world examples of different types - thus reducing chance of bias.

Thus the wrecking ball of painful truth smashes through your colorful rainbow facade protecting jerks who only wish to watch the world burn and take pleasure not in winning or losing or trying in a game, but only in inflicting suffering, frustration and pain in others. For that is all these trolls desire. Open your eyes to the truth and stop protecting people who only wish to hurt and annoy others. Start taking a stand against terrorism and defending the honest citizenry of League. People like you have thrown blinders on yourselves - and attempted (too often successfully) to throw them on others as well. It's time to admit the truth and fight the good fight - to make league a fair and enjoyable game for all those who honestly seek to do their best and don't seek pleasure merely at the expense of ruining other people's days.

CampingstoveMay 14, 20182 votes

I agree with your feelings and frustrations. I get annoying at people that won't actually play to win or get emo and quit. There is a tiered level of childish toxic behavior that deserves differing levels of punishment. Unfortunately Riot simply doesn't care enough to address it in a substantive way. All of the ideas are ignored. Hell, even comments I'm putting on here have been deleted as 'spam' which it wasn't for agreeing that Riot is failing in their responsibility to address the toxic community. Who knows if this one will be deleted or not even though it clearly relates to the subject at hand.

Pika FoxMay 15, 20181 votes

If they dont want to group, they dont need to, and its not trolling to just not group. Doesnt mean theyre trying to throw, and it doesnt sound like theyll get punished.

woodvsmurphMay 17, 20181 votes

In every situation... no you don't always have to group. In the situation described... yes you DO. You do NEED to group and you KNOW you need to. Refusing to is literally CHOOSING to throw away an almost-guaranteed win to almost-guarantee you lose.

If you're in a zombie apocalypse and you need to get past 50 zombies... sure you have the ability to try to fight through them all on your own... but you KNOW it's too many and you're gonna die. So if there's 9 other people also looking to get through and you are given the option to team up with them - because you saw a group of nine in a similar situation before who ALMOST made it through all alive, but lost a few people... then not working with those nine means you are KNOWINGLY condemning both yourself AND them to death. So yeah, you are a terrible person for trying to fight through the 50 zombies alone when you don't have to.. and for screwing over 9 others who could likely have all lived if only you'd helped out. And that's exactly what you are doing by not grouping in said scenario. If you wanna go suicide to zombies... go the fuck ahead, but get out of my game and my teammates' game first. Otherwise, just as you have the right to screw us all over, we have the right to pull out our weapons and just slay you for not helping us with the zombies. Just as in league... we have the right to report your ass for being a shitty person and intentionally ruining the match for 9 other players.

Pika FoxMay 17, 20181 votes

Nope, still dont need to group. Being bad is not a reportable offense.

woodvsmurphMay 17, 20181 votes

Inting/griefing is literally the first report option. If you bothered to do your research instead of just spout nonsense, you would know that. And as I thoroughly explained - with evidence and reason/logic - that's exactly what said person(s) is doing. Anyone with an unbiased view would consider all sides and end up taking the one I did. Literally anyone. So it's not even worth talking to someone as biased, blind, and illogical as you. You can't have an argument with an idiot and win.

And watch what would happen with that last sentence in the previous paragraph...

If you are honest, you will assume that I'm therefore calling you an idiot - which I never actually did. And thus, while you might report me - and since the advisor on this board is just as illogical and on the same side as you - he might just try to go through with it. But it cannot work - without abuse of power - because I never said YOU are an idiot - or anyone else on this board. But if you are honest with yourself, I'm sure the thought crossed your mind. Do you like feeling as though I implied (note - I never said I did imply - just that you feel that way I'm sure) that you are an idiot? No? Do you want to report behavior like that? There's nothing reportable about that though, because I never called you anything lol. Now imagine if I were to be doing crap like that to you for an entire game and making it completely obvious that I think you are an idiot (note I said - if i were - not that "I do"; thus nothing reportable here). Imagine me getting our teammates to join me so you have to mute us all. And imagine me running around wherever you go - taking all ur cs and xp just before you get there. Again, not reportable - at least according to your standards. I'm "just trying to win the way I know best". By not giving farm to someone I were to think of as an idiot (again - were to - not saying I do; that in said scenario if I were to act like it), I am better able to carry someone I thought of (not that I do; but in said scenario I were to treat you as) a trashcan like you. Seem like someone we should allow to play the game and ruin it for others with their selfish stupidity and arrogance? You like someone who only takes pleasure in their ability to ruin the game for others rather than actually try to do what they're supposed to in the game? You want justice against someone who is harassing you and very clearly implying you are an idiot (in said scenario; not calling you one here - at least not in a way you can prove and report... oooh)?

Damn right you do. And that is exactly what people like me are arguing for. Except the person is taking different actions - but equally incorrect, illogical, mean, and unacceptable. So wake up... not dummy... and stop spouting nonsense. We wouldn't want people thinking you are an idiot for taking two different sides in essentially the same argument. You are far too smart to do that... at least that's what I think.

Pika FoxMay 17, 20181 votes

Inting/griefing is reportable. Not grouping is neither.

woodvsmurphMay 18, 20181 votes

So when not grouping leads to dying EVERY TIME you split without gaining anything from it or enabling you TEAM to gain anything from you splitting... then you clearly know it doesn't work. Thus DOING it STILL - after you know it doesn't work - is INTING. And you just finally admitted that INTING is reportable. Ta. Da. Mind explosion, now we'll move onto teaching you something complicated:

2+2=4

I wonder how long this is going to take...

Pika FoxMay 18, 20181 votes

Thats.... literally not the definition of inting. Youre making massive logical leaps.

woodvsmurphMay 21, 20181 votes

No, that would be you. Pull your head out of your... sand.

Pika fox logic... so there's a serial killer on the loose and he's targeting my family members. He kills one person every day at noon - and always kidnaps me to make me watch. After every time though, he apologizes and says it was an accident. Therefore, I have not reported it to the police. They did arrest him once and the trial almost convicted him, but I testified that he did it by accident and they let him go. I'm so happy for the guy... almost getting sent to life in prison for a few simple accidental killings. I'm now the only one left in my nine member family though, so I feel kinda lonely. Maybe he'll adopt me - he said he wanted to see me at noon today and this time things were going to be a little different than before - since it would just be one of us walking away from the hang out time. I wonder what he meant by that...

Sorry for making something so dark... but honestly it illustrates the utter stupidity of your argument and is a perfect fictional "real-world" example of what you are arguing is purely innocent honest mistakes. So go ahead and tell me the serial killer is 99% likely to just killing everyone by accident in said scenario. Go ahead and PROVE it - not just make a claim that "he's not a serial killer" or "it was an accident". Cuz that's exactly what you are doing with inting players - arguing they aren't and not backing anything up with actual evidence or logic; purely making claims they aren't.

Bring some PROOF or keep your lying poisonous mouth shut.