So if trash talk is Toxic and damages the game experience...

Mira Arya Enthe·Jun 23, 2016·1 votes·1,322 views

...why does all chat exist? There is literally no other reason to communicate with the enemy team, other than to say "GG". You are playing, you shouldn't be wasting time typing to socialize, it's against the rules to help them. Literally all the /all chat does is encourage toxic behavior, feeding, etc.

Edit: Custom games are an exception. Only other reason I can think of is money, people just love watching their favorite streamers be toxic af then whine when they get banned.

I feel it should at least be disabled in Ranked play. There is no place in ranked to be taunting enemies, shit talking about your team to the enemy Garen who doesn't care, or wasting time on arguments instead of playing.

42 Comments

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20168 votes

If you see no other reason to use it, you might as well turn it off. That's why it's optional. Some people use it to compliment each others' plays, joke around, or sometimes even manage to engage in mutually appreciated playful banter.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you see no other reason to use it, you might as well turn it off. That's why it's optional. Some people use it to compliment each others' plays, joke around, or sometimes even manage to engage in mutually appreciated playful banter.

I do have it off, I still see my ADC standing in the middle of lane, dying while he is busy typing. I still see my team firing insults back at them or raging about their team. It serves no reasonable purpose. Maybe people would focus more on the game, their team and teamwork if there wasn't a festering pool of animosity that is /all chat. It's why Horde and Alliance cannot talk in WoW and why there is no /all chat in Heroes.

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20163 votes

And that's why trash talk is punishable.

Riot apparently prefers to teach people to use tools properly rather than remove them for everyone. It seems Riot simply has a different philosophy than Blizzard.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And that's why trash talk is punishable.

Riot apparently prefers to teach people to use tools properly rather than remove them for everyone. It seems Riot simply has a different philosophy than Blizzard.

Sure is working ain't it? Oh no, still considered the most toxic community in gaming.

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20164 votes

Yeah, all toxicity in lol happens in all-chat, right? Oh no, most of it is still people talking down to their team in ally-chat.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, all toxicity in lol happens in all-chat, right? Oh no, most of it is still people talking down to their team in ally-chat.

Not from my experience. And even then, that is egged on by all chat a thousand times over.

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20162 votes

How can in your experience more toxicity happen in all-chat, when you have all-chat disabled? Thinking about that... how do you "still see [your] team firing insults back at them"? How can you call it "a festering pool of animosity that is /all chat"?

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How can in your experience more toxicity happen in all-chat, when you have all-chat disabled? Thinking about that... how do you "still see [your] team firing insults back at them"? How can you call it "a festering pool of animosity that is /all chat"?

I've had it enabled. I disabled it about a month ago. And I know what Draven is doing when he stops moving every few seconds to type and his team mates are saying in ally chat "Draven your bad stop shit talking."

Tell me, outside of custom games, and saying 'GG'. Does it actually serve any functional purpose to the game? No, it's there for people to shit talk, because that keeps people playing game after game after game. That's why it's there.

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20162 votes

"Draven your bad stop shit talking" sounds a lot like he's complaining about his team though. And he'd just do that in ally-chat if all-chat didn't exist. And then you'd either be forced to listen to him, or would have to mute him compeltely.

Not entirely sure how that would be better.

And what exactly do you consider a "functional purpose to the game"? Unless you're a pro-player, games are for fun. And I had fun joking with enemies very often. That's a functional purpose in my books.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Draven your bad stop shit talking" sounds a lot like he's complaining about his team though. And he'd just do that in ally-chat if all-chat didn't exist. And then you'd either be forced to listen to him, or would have to mute him compeltely.

Not entirely sure how that would be better.

And what exactly do you consider a "functional purpose to the game"? Unless you're a pro-player, games are for fun. And I had fun joking with enemies very often.

What are you daft. The ability to communicate with your enemies is blatantly, obviously, and is known to through all gaming communities. Breed more toxicity. Games with it disabled have far lower rates of Toxic behavior from everyone I have spoken to. Because Draven can say "You're bad Sona." Yes. But can't shit talk the enemy team, be shit talked by the enemy team, get in pissing matches with the enemy team, tilt or get tilted by the enemy team or diss his team to the enemy team. There is nobody to argue with or insult or type to other than his own team. Which in itself would be a lot less frequent if he wasn't chatting with, or reading chat, from the enemy team.

As for functional purposes. Ally chat has them. Telling your team you need to back, what item you are buying, where you plan to go, what objectives you want to do, who you want to target. And receiving the same from them. What kind of functions does chatting with the enemy team give you to help your team win?

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20163 votes

There is nobody to argue with or insult or type to other than his own team.

Which happens constantly, even in Heroes of the Storm. People are going to be douchebags. And if you take away their current methods to be douchebags, they will find new ways to be douchebags.

Solution: Deal with the douchebags, not their methods.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Which happens constantly, even in Heroes of the Storm. People are going to be douchebags. And if you take away their current methods to be douchebags, they will find new ways to be douchebags.

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20162 votes

I already answered that: Fun. Which is the main purpose of any game you're not playing professionally.

Edit: What functional purpose do emotes serve? Or the double-explosion from surrendering?

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I already answered that: Fun. Which is the main purpose of any game you're not playing professionally.

Edit: What functional purpose do emotes serve? Or the double-explosion from surrendering?

And what is this fun that comes out of all chat 99% of the time? It comes from being toxic. All game, every game. And never getting punished for it.

TrulyBlandJun 23, 20162 votes

No. The fun comes from joking, friendly banter and complimenting plays. Does it happen often? No. But the rest of the time I simply ignore that shit. And if I ever found myself incapable of doing so, I'll just turn off allchat.

(And people get banned for trash talking often enough. I remember times when people were upset/confused because they were banned despite "only" talking down to the enemies, rather than their allies.)

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

No. The fun comes from joking, friendly banter and complimenting plays. Does it happen often? No. But the rest of the time I simply ignore that shit. And if I ever found myself incapable of doing so, I'll just turn off allchat.

(And people get banned for trash talking often enough. I remember times when people were upset/confused because they were banned despite "only" talking down to the enemies, rather than their allies.)

By often you mean almost never right? I know some pretty toxic people and none of them have ever even got a warning. I won't play with them they are so bad. They play everyday all day and shit talk, insult and threaten people all game. This is the normal I see in chat. If people got banned for it, half the community or more would be ban at any one point in time. This is why almost every other MOBA doesn't have one, and why League is known as the most toxic. Because /all chat serves no purpose other than to breed contempt and anger.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No. The fun comes from joking, friendly banter and complimenting plays. Does it happen often? No. But the rest of the time I simply ignore that shit. And if I ever found myself incapable of doing so, I'll just turn off allchat.

(And people get banned for trash talking often enough. I remember times when people were upset/confused because they were banned despite "only" talking down to the enemies, rather than their allies.)

Unfortunately I have to go. I am glad we could debate civilly on this matter. And I will say one last thing, I feel Ranked is the last place for it, plenty of time to say GG after the match. But it's clear we won't agree, which is okay. I will always feel it serves far more negative than positive, and shouldn't be in ranked. You don't feel that way.

Anyway, have a nice day!

EarthpineJun 24, 20161 votes

A civil discussion? On the player behaviour boards? I must be looking at the memes and games section.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Which happens constantly, even in Heroes of the Storm. People are going to be douchebags. And if you take away their current methods to be douchebags, they will find new ways to be douchebags.

Solution: Deal with the douchebags, not their methods.

Again, working so well. i play Heroes as well. A shit ton less toxic. 1/5 games get 1 person who gets mad because you didn't engage. Because the social system is team oriented however somebody usually tells them to drop it and the team moves on.

RedTaoJun 23, 20162 votes

HotS is less toxic because Blizzard continues to chat restrict people if they're still talking smack, not ban them so they can make a new account and keep doing what they've already been doing with a new name.

RedTaoJun 23, 20162 votes

Oh please. The toxicity issue in HotS is nowhere near as bad as LoL.

ModPrandineJun 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TN0182sc,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-23T18:57:07.489+0000)

What are you daft. The ability to communicate with your enemies is blatantly, obviously, and is known to through all gaming communities. Breed more toxicity. Games with it disabled have far lower rates of Toxic behavior from everyone I have spoken to.

Depends on who you ask. Not everyone shares the same mindset as you, nor does your experience alone speak for everyone else. Believe it or not there are people out there who don't use all-chat to be a jerk, but rather to have a nice chat with the enemy team every now and then.

Because Draven can say "You're bad Sona." Yes. But can't shit talk the enemy team, be shit talked by the enemy team, get in pissing matches with the enemy team, tilt or get tilted by the enemy team or diss his team to the enemy team. There is nobody to argue with or insult or type to other than his own team. Which in itself would be a lot less frequent if he wasn't chatting with, or reading chat, from the enemy team.

One doesn't need to use all-chat in order to be a jerk to their teammates; in fact if one wants to be a jerk then they'll do so even if all-chat didn't even exist in this game, and if the enemy team doesn't even use the all-chat feature then it defeats the purpose of your argument there. As for your initial question it depends on your definition of help. Giving an enemy player some tips and advice on how to play their champion/role better is fine and won't get you in trouble, while intentionally revealing the location of your teammates to the enemy team is not fine and will get you in trouble.

I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with all-chat. However, Riot will not remove features just because a jerk chooses to abuse it-they'll just simply remove the jerk instead. There will always be jerks no matter where you go, and removing features from the game won't stop that. All you can do is try to reform them so they'll learn not to misuse features again, and if they refuse to reform and listen to reason then you just remove them from the community outright.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Depends on who you ask. Not everyone shares the same mindset as you, nor does your experience alone speak for everyone else. Believe it or not there are people out there who don't use all-chat to be a jerk, but rather to have a nice chat with the enemy team every now and then.

One doesn't need to use all-chat in order to be a jerk to their teammates; in fact if one wants to be a jerk then they'll do so even if all-chat didn't even exist in this game, and if the enemy team doesn't even use the all-chat feature then it defeats the purpose of your argument there. As for your initial question it depends on your definition of help. Giving an enemy player some tips and advice on how to play their champion/role better is fine and won't get you in trouble, while intentionally revealing the location of your teammates to the enemy team is not fine and will get you in trouble.

I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with all-chat. However, Riot will not remove features just because a jerk chooses to abuse it-they'll just simply remove the jerk instead. There will always be jerks no matter where you go, and removing features from the game won't stop that. All you can do is try to reform them so they'll learn not to misuse features again, and if they refuse to reform and listen to reason then you just remove them from the community outright.

Not sure why somebody gave you a downvote, that was a very civil and polite response. I disagree, almost every other moba has no all chat, and League is known as the most toxic community in gaming. Lots of things contribute to this, but being one of the few competitive games that lets you talk to your enemies, is certainly a huge one. Otherwise dozens of other companies would not disable it based on their information on it's effects on game experience. Which overwhelmingly is known to be a negative one, especially in LoL. I play a lot of videogames and watch sports. There is always shit talking between teammates, but it is not nearly as problematic or inciting than shit talk to opponents. It doesn't breed nearly as much contempt and it is not nearly as easily extinguished.

ModPrandineJun 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TN0182sc,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-06-23T19:27:30.658+0000)

Not sure why somebody gave you a downvote, that was a very civil and polite response.

As far as I know no one has downvoted that post yet, I simply like to remove the auto-upvote from my posts so that I can try to get a more accurate description of how many people agree or disagree with my posts.

I disagree, almost every other moba has no all chat, and League is known as the most toxic community in gaming. Lots of things contribute to this, but being one of the few competitive games that lets you talk to your enemies, is certainly a huge one. Otherwise dozens of other companies would not disable it based on their information on it's effects on game experience. Which overwhelmingly is known to be a negative one, especially in LoL.

I disagree. I've seen my fair share of cases over the years and the vast majority of them involve players harassing their teammates in team-chat rather than all chat. Yes there are some people who harass their teammates and/or enemies via all-chat, but from my experiences those are few and far between. I understand your concerns, but I highly doubt that having a feature like all-chat is a reason as to why the LoL community is considered super toxic. There's no need to disable one specific feature just because a select few people try to abuse it constantly. If you just simply remove the abusers then there's no need to disable the feature now is there?

I play a lot of videogames and watch sports. There is always shit talking between teammates, but it is not nearly as problematic or inciting than shit talk to opponents. It doesn't breed nearly as much contempt and it is not nearly as easily extinguished.

I play allot of video games myself, and I know full well that there's a difference between friendly banter and harassing trash talking in the form of verbal abuse. One can trade a little friendly banter back and forth between opponents without coming off as being a jerk while doing so. If you feel that you can't control yourself while interacting with opponents then trying to use all-chat is not for you.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

As far as I know no one has downvoted that post yet, I simply like to remove the auto-upvote from my posts so that I can try to get a more accurate description of how many people agree or disagree with my posts.

I disagree. I've seen my fair share of cases over the years and the vast majority of them involve players harassing their teammates in team-chat rather than ally chat. Yes there are some people who harass their teammates and/or enemies via all-chat, but from my experiences those are few and far between. I understand your concerns, but I highly doubt that having a feature like all-chat is a reason as to why the LoL community is considered super toxic. There's no need to disable one specific feature just because a select few people try to abuse it constantly. If you just simply remove the abusers then there's no need to disable the feature now is there?

I play allot of video games myself, and I know full well that there's a difference between friendly banter and harassing trash talking in the form of verbal abuse. One can trade a little friendly banter back and forth between opponents without coming off as being a jerk while doing so. If you feel that you can't control yourself while interacting with opponents then trying to use all-chat is not for you.

Why can talk high and mighty about self control, and what it was meant for. But in the end. It's how everyone, including you, knows it is used by more than half of the players.

ModPrandineJun 23, 2016

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TN0182sc,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-23T20:56:01.224+0000)

Why can talk high and mighty about self control, and what it was meant for. But in the end. It's how everyone, including you, knows it is used by more than half of the players.

I know full well that allot of people use All-chat. However, I also know full well that not everyone uses it to be a verbally abusive jerk.

RedTaoJun 23, 20162 votes

This is very much true. Just look at HotS. It's a thing over there that if someone was being a toxic player, it's commonly asked if they came from LoL.

RookPusherJun 23, 20165 votes

You could have a friendly chat? I typically let the enemy know when they've made a great play.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You could have a friendly chat? I typically let the enemy know when they've made a great play.

A good thought, but that is a 1/50 experience with all chat. And taking time to socialize is a waste of time you could be paying attention to the game. I see friendly cross team chat every... 50-100 games. Meanwhile, cross team chat is used to be toxic, tilt people or argue why your own team is bad, almost every single game. There is no reason for it to logically exist.

LostFr0stJun 23, 20162 votes

Here's a reason: custom games, or when you get matched vs someone you know in ranked/normals by random coincidence. It's super fun when it happens.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Here's a reason: custom games, or when you get matched vs someone you know in ranked/normals by random coincidence. It's super fun when it happens.

Custom games I can understand. Getting matched with somebody you know it's the LAST thing that is needed. i had that happen in two different games, and both players just trolled all game.

LostFr0stJun 23, 20162 votes

Really? That's sad... My experience is that they try to kill each other all game.[slayer-pantheon-popcorn] Unless you consider that trolling; I consider it playful vendetta.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Really? That's sad... My experience is that they try to kill each other all game.[slayer-pantheon-popcorn] Unless you consider that trolling; I consider it playful vendetta.

That's another thing, some people just won't let it go. You get that Yasuo who their jinx says one insult, he hard dives all game long and loses the match too busy typing to even buy the right items.

LostFr0stJun 23, 20161 votes

Ahh the mind control tactics, I don't see them too often. Gotta calm down your team of llamas/kittens somehow when that happens. 'tis not an easy task, but it's part of the game.

ShinkoMinoriJun 23, 20161 votes

I like to all chat to say random shit in normals.

FebosJun 23, 20161 votes

What baffles me is that you don't understand that "all chat" IS OFF BY DEFAULT. If you turn it on, then that's a decision that you made.

GirardJun 23, 20161 votes

I talk to people in games to make jokes like "remember when towers did something? me neither" or chat about the food I'm eating or what those people are doing at that time. There are tons of reasons for /all chat, but if you don't think it's constructive or useful, turn it off and play the game.

Edit: People having the ability to talk isn't a reason to abuse it. I'm not toxic, and I use /all chat. Case closed.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I talk to people in games to make jokes like "remember when towers did something? me neither" or chat about the food I'm eating or what those people are doing at that time. There are tons of reasons for /all chat, but if you don't think it's constructive or useful, turn it off and play the game.

Edit: People having the ability to talk isn't a reason to abuse it. I'm not toxic, and I use /all chat. Case closed.

[{quoted}](name=The Febos,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TN0182sc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-06-23T18:47:24.847+0000)

What baffles me is that you don't understand that "all chat" IS OFF BY DEFAULT. If you turn it on, then that's a decision that you made.

You do realize if I have it disabled, which I have for about a month now. My team and the enemies still have it enabled... right?

RedTaoJun 23, 20162 votes

Honestly, this just falls under "What all chat was meant for" against "What all chat is being used for".

Riot and anyone who supports everything they do will all argue that all chat is meant to not talk trash to each other, but everyone who plays the game regularly will almost always see it used to talk trash to people. There's no point in arguing it when 1/both sides don't bother to see it as it is and how it's being used.

Mira Arya EntheJun 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, this just falls under "What all chat was meant for" against "What all chat is being used for".

Riot and anyone who supports everything they do will all argue that all chat is meant to not talk trash to each other, but everyone who plays the game regularly will almost always see it used to talk trash to people. There's no point in arguing it when 1/both sides don't bother to see it as it is and how it's being used.

This. Riot and everyone who supports it argues what it was meant for. But we all know how it is really used, always has been used, and always will be used. And this high moraled talk of removing the toxic players doesn't work, regardless of 'attempts' to control the community, still a rager, a flamer, a jerk, a shit talker. In every single game. Usually largely inspired by the social atmosphere created by the existence of an all chat.

RedTaoJun 23, 20162 votes

Which is why games like HotS that Blizzard has doesn't have problems like this... Well, nowhere near as bad as Riot has it anyways. Instead of continuously booting people from the game misusing everything in the game, Blizzard instead fixes the sources of the problem.

They dont have all chat because they know there's no need for it and what it's used for. They don't kick players out of the game for smack talking, they just mute them to oblivion if they don't change. They fixed the problem with Feeders because the way they have it set up is that killing the other teams champions doens't give such a huge lead like LoL does. They make it more important to get objectives than it is to kill enough things.

Riot doesn't fix their problems, they run damage control after it's done.

ModPrandineJun 24, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=TN0182sc,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-23T20:57:45.872+0000)

This. Riot and everyone who supports it argues what it was meant for. But we all know how it is really used, always has been used, and always will be used.

Again, your experience alone does NOT speak for everyone, and you need to stop acting like it does. You might have had a bad experience with all-chat but there are others who have had great experience with all-chat, yet you seem to be trying to ignore that fact. For me personally I've never used all-chat to be a jerk to someone and never will. In fact I recently used it to compliment an enemy player for making a good play against me in lane.

And this high moraled talk of removing the toxic players doesn't work, regardless of 'attempts' to control the community, still a rager, a flamer, a jerk, a shit talker.

You're wrong. If you do a thorough search through the PB&M forum and even the old PB and TBI forums on the old boards you'll see that there are some people who admit that what they did was wrong, that their punishment was deserved and they work to change their behavior for the better. Not everyone does mind you but believe it or not there are in fact some some people that do.

In every single game. Usually largely inspired by the social atmosphere created by the existence of an all chat.

Again, you're trying to pass off your own experiences as everyone elses. Here's a news flash for you: if one feature gets removed or didn't even exist then the truly dedicated jerks will just find other ways of being a jerk instead. This includes all-chat. What does this all mean exactly? Simply put it means that simply removing features from the game just because some people would choose to misuse it is not the answer. If it was then this game wouldn't even exist. No, the answer here is to reform and/or get rid of the jerks who do these sorts of things.

Also, if you're experiencing negativity in every single game that you play then more than likely the problem is actually you since you are the only person that is always in all of your games. Regardless though you've got to stop acting like everyone has the same experience that you do, as that is not true. Try to see it from other peoples point of views rather than just your own and your own only.