So is off meta ACTUALLY punishable? cause one of my teammates dodged when I was gonna be Ahri top into Teemo top, because my other options were banned/chosen already.
Banned: 
(nasus was a troll ban by my own team)
Chosen: 
and one of the others told me that "off meta is punishable" has Riot really reached an all time low?
Finn Teh Human7 votesOff meta is not punishable. However, if you've payed attention to boards in the past month I'm sure you've heard of the Nunu "support" that would take smite and basically never be botlane. That is punishable not because it's different, but because it ruins the game for the guy who has to now solo bot.
Hethalean3 votesNot necessarily the case. Riot's making a decision on this currently, and will let us know more about it.
Since it is "Support" and not "Bot Support" and being bot while support is purely meta more or less since it's generally accepted (aka meta) and not officially stated. Though Riot does do a lot to highly advocate that meta. Every other role has a lane / area named after them (Top lane for Top, jungle for jungler, etc)
Finn Teh Human2 votesWell he basically was role stealing too and we all know how Riot feels about that.
Hethalean3 votesWell, depends, I never really watched too many Nunu games, and I can't remember exactly right now. I was under the impression he was in the opponents jungle a lot more and not taking too much main side farm from his jungler.
If he wasn't, then it's simply what support does in bot but on a more 'team wide' scale. If you're not detrimenting (is this a word?) your main role's income, I don't see it as much of a role steal anymore than being a killing support (Brand/Zyra/Malzahar) is in bot lane. The support role has a lot more agency in where they can go as they do not have a dedicated source of income to leave behind like other roles with a primary source of income dedicated to them.
Riot admitted themselves that their rules/statements didn't really handle what Nunu / Singed was doing very well, so they decided to reform their thoughts and such. My guess is they're going to marry the bot lane and support since their GUI update now has Support have an indicator by the ADC (which kind of sucks in a way for supports if your ADC is garbage and it's a poor choice team wise to stick with them)
Finn Teh Human1 votesIt was like having 2 Junglers though. And IMO just a poor excuse for not wanting to play support. I'm not against off meta but I am against people who force others out of their role or force them in situations that they're not prepared for. Everyone who was forced to play solo bot were not able to farm and had a shitty game. I know people don't like playing support but you can make a huge impact if you're good. Riot knew that Singed and Nunu weren't exactly trolling, but the majority of people they played with didn't like what they were doing obviously. I recently was in a game with a "jungle" Singed who went into champ select giving us a whole speech on not feeding. Each lane won, but he did 3 camps and literally sat botlane and never left. We LOST that game BECAUSE of him. Ever since that game I've hated people like that. I don't care if you do something different, just don't fuck it up for everyone else.
Chønklord1 votesEveryone who was forced to play solo bot were not able to farm and had a shitty game.
That is factually incorrect. He was only reported by players in under 50% of his total games -- meaning not every single player reported him, and possibly not every adc either. Also at his elo (Diamond), most ADC's know how to safely farm under turret 2v1, and he provided statistics that while yes it did put behind his adc a slight bit (I think it was like 500g difference vs enemy ADC), the value far outweighed that slight loss by compensating for more gains elsewhere on the map.
Finn Teh Human1 votesPeople in Diamond are smart enough to kill someone in a 2v1 under tower. Being Platinum 3 people are smart enough in this elo to do it too. How would he know when he was reported? You don't always get a warning. And obviously he was reported enough for Riot to see it was an issue and for him to get banned for it.
Chønklord1 votesRiot said his reports almost reached 50% of total games played as nunu smite supp, meaning it was less than 50%. They said games, not players, so by using math we can deduce the lowest number of players that reported him is 16% (I Believe, requoting from memory). It's actually a bit higher than that, since in order to find out the correct percentage of player reports, you would have to do an average.
Finn Teh Human1 votesThat doesn't mean that he didn't ruin more games for people. That's just showing reports. How many people do you see instantly leave lobby in your games.
Chønklord1 votesFailed lobby games are not games because they never started, and therefore do not count.
Chønklord1 votesBy doing so they will be enforcing/cementing the current meta and through cause/effect, that means anyone that does anything outside of it will be punishable. I don't see how they can go this route.
There's really only two options: either you go full draconian mode and marry support to the bot lane completely, thereby eliminating all options from support players from leaving that lane, or they completely embrace their current vague guidelines about openness and freedom of playstyle and make it clear to everyone but especially the ones that grief and report others about playing off-meta, that it is not only completely acceptable to experiment (within the guidelines of their Summoner's Code), but also that reports filed by these griefing players will be thrown out completely, and any attempts of coercion under threat of reports made to off-meta players, will be punished as well.
hater free zone1 votesThis is always something I wonder when people play Quinn/Vayne top lane, or Graves/Kindred in the jungle, or Varus mid lane. Those are ADC champions, but they can have unconventional approaches to team composition. If you have an ADC type champion in another role, is it really necessary to keep a 'conventional' ADC bot lane role as well?
Lyndris1 votesNope, get a duel cc zone control mage bottom, both can get FQC and share farm once they do.
Lil Lewd Witch4 votesIt's not punishable. "Off-meta" and "trolling" are two very different categories.
Rene isn't really a troll ban BTW, unless they were doing it just to spite you. But technically Ahri Top would not be bannable if you played the game as normal.
Glîtchy2 votesIt's not punishable. "Off-meta" and "trolling" are two very different categories.
Rene isn't really a troll ban BTW, unless they were doing it just to spite you. But technically Ahri Top would not be bannable if you played the game as normal.
I didn't say he was, I said "Nasus was banned by my team to troll me" the opponent's banned Renekton.
robotmaster2 votesXD no people are just dumb go for the meta champs just don't feed when you do.
Colgate Gator2 votesOff-meta =/= Trolling, so you should be in the clear as long as you're doing the former and not the latter.
69469238DEL11 votesI mean, I guess there are worse champs to pick for top than Ahri, buy generally you'll get smashed
Ada Wong1 votesSo is off meta ACTUALLY punishable? cause one of my teammates dodged when I was gonna be Ahri top into Teemo top, because my other options were banned/chosen already.
Banned:
Chosen:
and one of the others told me that "off meta is punishable" has Riot really reached an all time low?
The 
support who does nothing to actually support...
Your Useless Garbage jungle who runs around doesn't do anything all game, takes no green smite, no countering their jungler or anything lol...
The Jungle who forgets smite....
The ADC who Intentionally throws a game...
Like fuc* this im going to play Over Watch...
Oh and Riot does get mad at people playing NuNu support because people don't agree? with it and report?
But do you think I agree with the support like 2 games in a row lol?
Chønklord1 votesYou realize Sion support has the highest winrate right now out of all supports across all tiers to Diamond?
Ada Wong1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LA3x20XY,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-03-21T22:07:37.624+0000)
You realize Sion support has the highest winrate right now out of all supports across all tiers to Diamond?
Yeah perhaps if you get a pre-made or ADC that isn't the R word?
just tried support I can understand why people don't want to do this role, and why people argue, we need a Remake button at champion select like its not the problem I can't play the role its the Idiots, and toxic scumbags that come with it at champion select.
KVbqbFsC8e1 votesIf you play an off meta champion often enough and your teammates report for you for it, yes it is punishable.
Glîtchy1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LA3x20XY,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-03-21T20:26:34.098+0000)
If you play an off meta champion often enough and your teammates report for you for it, yes it is punishable.
Yet here's Riot claiming they don't wanna enforce meta.
KVbqbFsC8e1 votesWell, you would have to be playing an off meta pick that your teammates don't like for a very high number of games for you to actually be punished. If you're just playing something off meta because your main champions were banned, then theres virtually no chance you'd be punished for it.
Chønklord1 votesEssentially saying a big "fuck you" to anyone that is a one trick and plays off-meta, and/or to those off-meta players that play a lot more games than the casual player.
Magical Player1 votesThats not meta enforcement if you playing anything and get reported enough and those reports turn out to be valid the system still has to act an derive some conclusion in this case it couldn't so rioters stepped in and did a manual review
Its not meta enforcement you can be punished for holding a game hostage
Chønklord1 votesBy your logic, if I play teemo adc in 100's of games but I am horrible at it and my team flames me and threatens to report me (and do report me), then just because a large number of players were griefing and being toxic about my completely valid and viable teemo adc pick, but decided to report me because I was bad and no one likes teemo, then I could in fact get permabanned for "creating a hostile environment for my team", even though I did nothing wrong and was within the guidelines Riot themselves setup.
Champion selection is and should always be completely up to each individual player's choice and preference. I have no more authority to dictate to you what champ you want to play just as you do not have control over mine.
If riot wanted champ select to be that way, there would have been a different system implemented, such as everyone casting votes on which champ is to be used for each individual player's hovered selection. That way, champ select is democratically fair and everyone's pick is ratified by the majority vote, per lane/role.
As it stands right now, until riot releases updated statements/clarifications on their rules/guidelines, every player has agency over their own gameplay and champion selection, as it has been since league was made. If you want to play urgot mid or try tryndamere support, while it may not be in my eyes an optimal choice, I cannot force you to not play them in those roles; suggesting anything to the contrary would be utterly and completely draconian and counter-intuitive to how the game is designed and what riot has laid out in their guidelines.
After all, you may realize something I don't about playing those picks in off-roles -- or at the very least it is a creative use of a champion and their kit; remember, things like the jungler role and ap Mage carry ziggs bot were the result of such player experimentations, just to name a few.
Magical Player1 votes"I have no more authority to dictate to you what champ you want to play just as you do not have control over mine." In ranked or draft a player can ban another's champ or champs because they feel so? They're taking away others agency to pick those champs In ranked or draft a player can pick another's champ before them taking away their agency.
To generic of a scenario From which I gather: A) you are a horrible teemo player you know this, and every game you go into is either you being carried or a loss Yes that is a problem, that shows intent. You know its a problem yet you keep doing it :D B) Your team has the right to report you, regardless of reasoning. For all we know you could be flaming/trolling/afking/feeding in all these 100 games C) Being bad isn't punishable, but trolling is
Experimentation at others expense is holding a game hostage Do you disagree?
Chønklord1 votesIn ranked or draft a player can ban another's champ or champs because they feel so? They're taking away others agency to pick those champs In ranked or draft a player can pick another's champ before them taking away their agency.
Yes that is possible, but it does not make it right.
A) you are a horrible teemo player you know this, and every game you go into is either you being carried or a loss Yes that is a problem, that shows intent. You know its a problem yet you keep doing it :D B) Your team has the right to report you, regardless of reasoning. For all we know you could be flaming/trolling/afking/feeding in all these 100 games
Regardless of whether or not the person is a bad teemo player or a good teemo player, makes no difference. That's what the ranking / mmr system is for, to determine what tier a player will end up. For all you know they could just be a teemo main that likes to play teemo as the bot lane carry. He is a marksman after all, and can build ad or ap.
So no, the team has the capability to report, but they do not have the right as established by the game rules and guidelines set forth from Riot. And you are using suppositions to pre-determine the guilt already of said teemo player -- i.e. "he's probably a feeder/troll/afker" etc. That's the problem with so many players in league, you automatically assume someone is one of those things when they play something contrary to your expectations. You have no right to make that determination about any other player, and even if they were to do bad in your game, still does not give you the right to report them; for all you know they could have an 80% winrate on teemo adc and just had a bad game.
C) Being bad isn't punishable, but trolling is
Correct, and 'trolling' as defined by Riot, is when someone plays with the purpose of losing through various means.
Let's play a little game of "trolling / not trolling. Ready? Also in these examples, you are playing in the game as well:
Teemo ADC, plays to win (wins the game): Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo ADC, plays to win (loses the game): Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo ADC, plays to win, goes 0-10 but wins the game: Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo ADC, plays to win, goes 10-0 but loses the game: Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo ADC, hides in lane bushes and has a bad CS score: Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo Jungle: Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo Support: Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo Support: Doesn't buy sightstone but uses shrooms post-6 for vision: Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo Support: Doesn't buy sightstone, has smite spell, and counter-jungles enemy bot side when possible: Trolling / Not Trolling? Teemo Support: Kills enemy champions during ganks/etc with spells/ignite: Trolling / Not Trolling?
Magical Player1 votesNot trolling Not trolling Not trolling- bad game Not trolling- bad game Undefined- unsure his intent, depends on chat logs and game review Undefined- unsure his intent, depends on chat logs and game review Undefined- unsure his intent, depends on chat logs and game review Undefined- unsure his intent, depends on chat logs and game review Undefined- unsure his intent, depends on chat logs and game review
Build 6 boots hec 'cause Move speed or 6 mogs for health 6 tears for mana its bad, but its a strat. Its "off meta build" so he shouldn't get punished right? is it trolling? Differences of opinions is not trolling :D But it is possible to infer that the user is not aiming to win if you go 100 games teemo with a win rate of 20%, you have random builds that make no sense is it troll? or is it "off meta build" Still too many variables left on the table left undecided. But the 1st 4 cases the intent was clear
Chønklord1 votesA build implies there is some method to the items you are buying; buying multiples of a single item is not a build, because they do not stack anything and serve no purpose for helping you or your team, therefore it is trolling.
And the answers to the troll / not troll, is not troll for all of the above. I forgot to mention all of them "play to win".
Magical Player1 votesBuild each type of boot each stacks to some degree, sure they overlap but thats fine each boot provides some utility but not the most effective item Goal is to win and have fun is it trolling? 6 tears on singed mana gives singed life, its an off meta build that gives buff to singed. Not most effective is it troll?
Teemo: As long as the motive is to have fun and win it is not trolling but if the motive is to have fun and not care it can begin to be seen as trolling if it is to have fun and lose it is trolling
Glîtchy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LA3x20XY,comment-id=0005000000010001,timestamp=2017-03-22T00:40:04.614+0000)
By your logic, if I play teemo adc in 100's of games but I am horrible at it and my team flames me and threatens to report me (and do report me), then just because a large number of players were griefing and being toxic about my completely valid and viable teemo adc pick, but decided to report me because I was bad and no one likes teemo, then I could in fact get permabanned for "creating a hostile environment for my team", even though I did nothing wrong and was within the guidelines Riot themselves setup.
Champion selection is and should always be completely up to each individual player's choice and preference. I have no more authority to dictate to you what champ you want to play just as you do not have control over mine.
If riot wanted champ select to be that way, there would have been a different system implemented, such as everyone casting votes on which champ is to be used for each individual player's hovered selection. That way, champ select is democratically fair and everyone's pick is ratified by the majority vote, per lane/role.
As it stands right now, until riot releases updated statements/clarifications on their rules/guidelines, every player has agency over their own gameplay and champion selection, as it has been since league was made. If you want to play urgot mid or try tryndamere support, while it may not be in my eyes an optimal choice, I cannot force you to not play them in those roles; suggesting anything to the contrary would be utterly and completely draconian and counter-intuitive to how the game is designed and what riot has laid out in their guidelines.
After all, you may realize something I don't about playing those picks in off-roles -- or at the very least it is a creative use of a champion and their kit; remember, things like the jungler role and ap Mage carry ziggs bot were the result of such player experimentations, just to name a few.
"hostile environment"....which was created by the "victims"....
[zombie-brand-clap]
Chønklord1 votesThe off-meta player is the victim, not the other way around.
Let me illustrate. You and a group of 10 friends are outside one day. All your friends wear red shirts, but you wear a blue shirt. They start harassing you, etc, for wearing blue when they want you to wear red, instead.
Just because other people insist you should say, act, or behave a certain way, and they outnumber you, does not make the larger group morally or objectively correct. That is known as 'mob rule', and it's usually to the detriment of everyone.
Riot says you have freedom of expression through choosing the champion you want to play, not what other people dictate to you. Just because a mob of people start getting annoyed, upset, etc by your decision to exercise this agency over your own champ selection, does not mean they get to dictate what everyone gets to play. Again according to Riot's own rules in the Summoner's Code, griefing and harassment is punishable. So let's say you play an off-meta game and you have all 4 of your teammates in chat lobby and in-game talking down to you, saying "gg game over" right off the start, not trying because they've given up, calling you names, saying you suck, et al... they are then the ones creating the negative environment, not the off-meta player.
This is simple critical thinking, try it sometime!
[slayer-jinx-catface]
Glîtchy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bôôsted Bonobo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=LA3x20XY,comment-id=000500000001000100010000,timestamp=2017-03-22T04:24:36.371+0000)
The off-meta player is the victim, not the other way around.
Let me illustrate. You and a group of 10 friends are outside one day. All your friends wear red shirts, but you wear a blue shirt. They start harassing you, etc, for wearing blue when they want you to wear red, instead.
Just because other people insist you should say, act, or behave a certain way, and they outnumber you, does not make the larger group morally or objectively correct. That is known as 'mob rule', and it's usually to the detriment of everyone.
Riot says you have freedom of expression through choosing the champion you want to play, not what other people dictate to you. Just because a mob of people start getting annoyed, upset, etc by your decision to exercise this agency over your own champ selection, does not mean they get to dictate what everyone gets to play. Again according to Riot's own rules in the Summoner's Code, griefing and harassment is punishable. So let's say you play an off-meta game and you have all 4 of your teammates in chat lobby and in-game talking down to you, saying "gg game over" right off the start, not trying because they've given up, calling you names, saying you suck, et al... they are then the ones creating the negative environment, not the off-meta player.
This is simple critical thinking, try it sometime!
[slayer-jinx-catface]
Yeah it's just the way things have been with League lately it's like, "What is right, and what is wrong in Rito's eyes?"
EMeta1 votesNope, it's still simple: Are you being a jerk to your team? Picking Ahri top into Teemo is not being a jerk to your team. Queuing support in solo and leaving your bot alone and stealing your jungle's farm--while not getting your team on board with your new very different strategy--is being a jerk to your team.
Just don't be a jerk and you're fine.
Who is Taliyah1 votesNo off meta is not punishable, as long as you play something that helps out your team. Top ahri would be fine.