Boards›Player Behavior

Is there some way to find out what exactly led up to a chat restriction?

Tahngarthor··2 votes·442 views

I'm generally a pretty chill person. I don't really even chat that much. I admit, most of the time I do chat, its a defensive reaction to accusations of poor play or other players being toxic.

I would really like to know what exactly led up to this chat restriction, support mentions these "reform cards" but I never saw one. I played a game, got regularly berated for my performance (being called "One of those players" repeatedly). All I did was defend myself saying I havent done anything wrong, and in my next game I'm suddenly chat restricted. But the support site implies that it takes a "pattern of behavior." I basically never use curses/explitives except in casual banter with actual friends. So I guess you can get restricted even without using bad language?

I can't address this if I don't know why it's happening. I've read this forum a lot and seen lots of people complain about band/restrictions when they in fact seemed to deserve it. So I'm not going to outright deny or confirm anything- but I like to think I'm not "one of those players" and thus I would like to understand what happened so I can not repeat whatever it was that caused this.

(Side note: I find it ironic that just the game before I was told in being given a key fragment that I got 273% more honors for staying cool than the average player, and now I'm in the honor doghouse and I don't even know why.)

17 Comments

EvilDustMan2 votes

Mute, report, move on.

All you are doing by replying to accusations is prolonging the argument. Ignore it.

YerroFever2 votes

You can respond and defend yourself in non toxic ways. Since you got a chat restriction, it appears as though you responded in toxic ways. Post your chat logs and the forum can help you identify what is considered toxic in your logs.

Tahngarthor1 votes

{quoted}

You can respond and defend yourself in non toxic ways. Since you got a chat restriction, it appears as though you responded in toxic ways. Post your chat logs and the forum can help you identify what is considered toxic in your logs.

YOu know, I agree. And my chat was, fairly, not that great. But it is rose pettals and cotton candy compared to a lot of the stuff ive seen people post here and cry "UNFAIR!" over.

I often do mute people, but I admit I'm hesitaant to jump straight to it. Not because I want to participate in a likely toxic conversation, but because I want to see the good in people and not shut them down because of one situation when things may be resolvable.

Tahngarthor1 votes

I did eventually get a popup. However, the message only shows your own chat, and not that of the people you're responding to. Without that context, even the most innocent chat can look negative- why isn't the entire chat log included?

Zombie Gerbil3 votes

It's because the punishment is about you, not them. What leads you to punishment is toxicity.

Tahngarthor1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zombie Gerbil,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AoUH2Bwe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-27T04:34:37.741+0000)

It's because the punishment is about you, not them. What leads you to punishment is toxicity.

that's not a helpful comment. Defending oneself against accusations is not being toxic. No foul language or bad attitude was used.

Context is important. If you're provoking behavior on someone else's part, you're not absolved of guilt even if the y did do something wrong. A system that doesn't consider both sides of the issue is inherently flawed.

Zombie Gerbil2 votes

Actually, it is. That's why you got punished. There's only one way to defend yourself against toxicity and that's muting. However, you chose to type back, which means you chose to be negative. Just because they chose to be negative, doesn't obligate you to be negative.

Tahngarthor1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zombie Gerbil,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AoUH2Bwe,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-27T04:42:45.657+0000)

Actually, it is. That's why you got punished. There's only one way to defend yourself against toxicity and that's muting. However, you chose to type back, which means you chose to be negative. Just because they chose to be negative, doesn't obligate you to be negative.

Replying to someone that is being rude or hurtful towards you isn't automatically being negative n and of itself.

Zombie Gerbil1 votes

The only way you can get punished by retaliation is negativity. Responding to them is one thing, but you defending yourself by typing back, either insulting, asking for a report, calling out their score, or harassing them by other means is negative and toxic. You said you were defending yourself then got punished for it, which means, you were likely negative. Because there's only ONE way to defend yourself in this game against toxic players and that is muting them.

If you want to dispute that, show your chat log, and not only I will show you where you went wrong, but surely the rest of the board and Mods will gladly show you.

ModThe Djinn4 votes

{quoted}why isn't the entire chat log included?

The chat log is not included because including the chat of other players is not ultimately helpful. Their behavior does not dictate or force your reactions, and anything that you type that is toxic is something that you chose to type of your own free will. No special exception is given just because someone else was a problem as well, or was a problem first.

All that including other chat would do, therefore, is distract from the problems with your own chat, or give players ammunition to argue that they do not deserve a punishment simply because someone else was equally problematic.

Tahngarthor2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AoUH2Bwe,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-02-27T04:42:53.889+0000)

The chat log is not included because including the chat of other players is not ultimately helpful. Their behavior does not dictate or force your reactions, and anything that you type that is toxic is something that you chose to type of your own free will. No special exception is given just because someone else was a problem as well, or was a problem first.

All that including other chat would do, therefore, is distract from the problems with your own chat, or give players ammunition to argue that they do not deserve a punishment simply because someone else was equally problematic.

Can both players in a dispute get restricted?

I understand your logic, but like I said, context matters. Some chat will look worse on its own than it would with the other person's chat included. Another player being toxic leading to less positive responses should not excuse their own behavior- because they could then do such things deliberately to provoke others, and yet the person they provoked is the one that gets in toruble. This really doesnt make sense to me.

EvilDustMan2 votes

{quoted}

Can both players in a dispute get restricted?

Absolutely.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}Can both players in a dispute get restricted?

Absolutely. Each player is judged on his or her own behavior, and punished according to his or her own previous and current behavior. It would be theoretically possible to have a game where each and every player ends up chat restricted.

I understand your logic, but like I said, context matters. Some chat will look worse on its own than it would with the other person's chat included.

Worse, perhaps. Acceptable, unlikely. I don't believe I have ever seen a case that I did not understand the punishment for even in those cases where we used to be able to see full context (which was a thing in the old tribunal). Context isn't given because, ultimately, Riot found that providing it did not change what players chose to punish.

Tahngarthor1 votes

Part of the issue I have with this system is you don't necessairly have to say bad words or be actually rude to get restricted. I did neither of those things. It is possible that my chat could be construed as "negative". But mere negativity seems like an absurdly low bar for punishment.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}

Part of the issue I have with this system is you don't necessairly have to say bad words or be actually rude to get restricted. I did neither of those things. It is possible that my chat could be construed as "negative". But mere negativity seems like an absurdly low bar for punishment.

If you can provide your chat logs we can better help you understand what led to this punishment. Without it, it's hard to make any actual comment.

Tahngarthor1 votes

(I notice it puts in "game 1" as if multiple games are typically used, but this only contained one)

Also this restriction occured within the time it took to for the game to close and enter the next one. So it seems automated- if it was, what happened here?

Game 1 Tahngarthor: of course im not going to go commit suicide // (referring to not joining a group fight because of certain death- but I have suspicion that use of the word suicide is a problem, because I have heard that certain non-curse words and such, like "kys" can get automatic restrictions. I suspect this is a red flag to the system more than the rest of this) Tahngarthor: not enough range Tahngarthor: and ive gotten zero ganks Tahngarthor: no Tahngarthor: im not one of those players // (after being called such multiple times before any of this chat) Tahngarthor: unless needing help and not getting it Tahngarthor: isnt a valid thing to complain about Tahngarthor: because i couldnt help Tahngarthor: would you rather have 1 death or two Tahngarthor: you're both being useless yourselves Tahngarthor: you have no right to complain when you're not helping either Tahngarthor: umn Tahngarthor: i did Tahngarthor: a ping is a ping Tahngarthor: obviously if i ping danger is incoming... Tahngarthor: ive done nothing wrong Tahngarthor: there is no basis for report Tahngarthor: meanwhile you're both being very toxic Tahngarthor: lol it was like an hour beofre you got jumped // (refers to them yelling at me for not pinging MIA when I did, just with the "danger" ping instead of the "missing" ping) Tahngarthor: but w/e Tahngarthor: no Tahngarthor: you werent Tahngarthor: you have no valid reason to report Tahngarthor: im not feeding Tahngarthor: im not being toxic Tahngarthor: I havent done anything wrong Tahngarthor: you can report people all you want for doing nothing wrong but they wont get in trouble because they didn't do anything wrong : Tahngarthor: so go ahead, wear out your keyboards on your report Tahngarthor: i havent had a negative attitude Tahngarthor: youve been calling me "one of those guys" the whole match Tahngarthor: well you're welcome to your opinion Tahngarthor: but ive said nothing negative that wasnt a response to your toxicity Tahngarthor: there is no "afk farming" offense Tahngarthor: im not greifing Tahngarthor: im not feeding Tahngarthor: im not afk Tahngarthor: and I got executed because I was replying to you Tahngarthor: continuing to be toxic Tahngarthor: blaming me for everything when you are performing poorly yourselves Tahngarthor: that's entirely false Tahngarthor: i couldnt agree more Tahngarthor: talking to you two is a lot like that Tahngarthor: you made up your mind before the match even started Tahngarthor: you were going to report me just for my pick probably

So: Long story short, in the best context, I'd agree that this is sub-optimal. but like I said, I was under continuous fire for not living up to their performance expecations- something that only my chat doesn't reveal. Most of this is just me standing up to being berated and threatened with reports before most of the chat even took place. There's no choice four letter words in here, no racial slurs, no other curses or explitives.

My first concern is mainly what the support site said- that a chat restriction is indicative of a pattern of behavior. But with no prior notices or warnings, I can legitimately be in the dark about a problem.

My second concern is the honor system. YOu can regularly recieve praise for "staying cool" (far more than the average player according to the League client itself) but apparently one single incident of less-than-peaches-and-roses can set you back likely hundreds of games in the honor system.

Tahngarthor1 votes

As long as I make sure not to get put into this position again, I'll sitll get ranked rewards if otherwise qualified right?

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