Unward's MUR doctrine for dealing with bullshit reports.

Unward49·Oct 30, 2015·4 votes·3,193 views

So here's what I'm going to do Riot.

MUR stands for Massive-Unreasonable-Retaliation

Every time I get that stupid warning of "you have been reported, blah blah blah" I'm going to not only report everyone on my team, I'm going to report everyone on the enemy team as well. But that's not all, I'm going to report everyone in the next game as well, and the game after that, and the game after that until I run into someone who I think is deserving of being called a decent human being.

It might take an unreasonably long time for that to happen of course.

Your report system is bullshit. It always has been and it always will be and I guarantee is the source of far more toxicity that it prevents. How many people have had a frustrating game and then decided to troll their next game JUST BECAUSE they got reported in their previous game. I know I have. I do it all the time, because fuck those stupid %%%%s who reported me unjustly. If I can't have satisfaction against them, then fuck the next jackholes who have to deal with me.

And I'm very creative about how I troll. I can absolutely 100% guarantee that my team will lose the game, but you will never notice it in my chat history or even in my stats. I can throw a game with the best of them and I do, just because some prick had the temerity to report me in game. You made me when you introduced this system Riot. I was a pretty decent and reasonable gamer by all accounts before this fucking tribunal bullshit happened, but now I am unleashed.

Was I an angel, no, not by your standards, just a very mildly over enthusiastic gamer with the occasional tendency to call other players bad at the game. Now I'm a full on troll in at least 40% of the games I play. I know what I am and I do not apologize. You created me and I'm sure thousands like me.

What are you going to do about it?

80 Comments

eldurisOct 31, 20158 votes

Keep in mind that spamming reports makes them worthless very quickly and won't even be detected by the behavioral systems. You may even encounter further account restrictions for abusing the report feature.

I'm sorry if you think you were falsely reported. It happens sometimes, even I'm reported in 1.9% of all my games. Stay positive and you have nothing to worry about. Continue this negative tirade and you're probably going to be banned very quickly.

PlsTouchMeGentlyNov 2, 20151 votes

How can you figure out that percentage? I'm curious haha

eldurisNov 3, 20152 votes

Sometimes Lyte will post threads where you can get a rough percentage of the amount of reports you get and tips to improve, etc. It's never really announced ahead of time, but it's something I think a lot of people see value in. I was able to get my percentage from one of these threads. :P

PlsTouchMeGentlyNov 3, 20151 votes

Ahhh gotcha! Thanks for the response Mr. Arbiter sir ;-D

MadtepezNov 2, 20151 votes

Hi, Do you imply that the more you report the less your reporting is worth ? Like the system thinks that you are an over sensitive pussy and that your reports shouldn't be taken into account

I asked in a previous thread how polished a community do we aim for (http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/jJTqPjG3-dos-and-donts) the general answer seemed to be a very polished one. By that standard 4 to 5 people should be reported every single game. I doubt people would do it 'cause it is time consuming and we are kept in the dark about how effective it is so it feels like a waste of time.

But you are suggesting that even if somoene took upon himself to really report people that create this unwelcoming environment, his "report worthiness" would be downgraded into oblivion ?

erf.... i already doubted the usefulness of reporting :-(

JubbinautNov 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Hi, Do you imply that the more you report the less your reporting is worth ? Like the system thinks that you are an over sensitive pussy and that your reports shouldn't be taken into account

No. The system determines the value of your reports based on how valid they have historically been, not the sheer volume of them.

EvilDustManOct 30, 20155 votes

Your reports will mean absolutely nothing after the first set, no one will get punished, and Riot will probably tell you to stop.

You are not a victim. You are not doing this out of justice. You are not the Punisher. You are not even the stupid hamdark Punisher. You are just someone taking a stray report too far.

Because if you got banned or suspended, it wasn't from trolling reports, you can bet your ass.

ZielmannOct 30, 20152 votes

Agree with all of this, but I will add one thing: In the past, Riot has actually gone after people who abuse the report feature, and punished players for doing so.

But yeah... OP's reports will very quickly have all their weighting taken away and the system will just ignore them.

EvilDustManOct 30, 20154 votes

Then what, honestly, are you hoping to accomplish here? You know you aren't going to get Riot to make some sort of broad sweeping change by trying to troll the report system. And best you'll get a slap on the wrist, at worst they'll give your account a closer glance and you'll get banned or suspended.

What do you want here?

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20154 votes

Your report system is bullshit. It always has been and it always will be and I guarantee is the source of far more toxicity that it prevents. How many people have had a frustrating game and then decided to troll their next game JUST BECAUSE they got reported in their previous game. I know I have.

I'm curious why you think it's bullshit. They go to a lot of effort to weed out false reports and you admit yourself that you're no angel. Is it because you believe that reports should be invalidated in certain circumstances?

I do it all the time, because fuck those stupid %%%%s who reported me unjustly. If I can't have satisfaction against them, then fuck the next jackholes who have to deal with me.

What constitutes an "unjust" report in your mind?

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm curious why you think it's bullshit. They go to a lot of effort to weed out false reports and you admit yourself that you're no angel. Is it because you believe that reports should be invalidated in certain circumstances?

What constitutes an "unjust" report in your mind?

No, I said I WAS no angel. Now I'm a full on troll if you piss me off. I will actively throw the game beyond the ability of even the best players to win. I never used to do that, but it's all I have left. I can't tell players off without getting punished for it, so I will find another way to vent my frustration at them.

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I can't tell players off without getting punished for it

Why do you feel that it should be okay to tell other people off?

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why do you feel that it should be okay to tell other people off?

Because it's a video game.

JubbinautOct 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Because it's a video game.

So, because it's a video game, other people should not negatively impact your experience, but you should be allowed to negatively impact others' experience?

I don't see how that follows at all.

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So, because it's a video game, other people should not negatively impact your experience, but you should be allowed to negatively impact others' experience?

I don't see how that follows at all.

If your sensitive widdle feelings can't handle a big meanie calling you bad at a video game over the internet, then you need to not play video games on the internet. Your inability to play to a certain proficiency is just as disruptive to my gaming experience as my telling you that you are bad is to yours. The only difference is, one of them is punishable by permanently banning my account and the other one isn't.

JubbinautOct 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

If your sensitive widdle feelings can't handle a big meanie calling you bad at a video game over the internet, then you need to not play video games on the internet.

Please don't make assumptions about me. It won't ever do you any favors.

Your inability to play to a certain proficiency is just as disruptive to my gaming experience as my telling you that you are bad is to yours. The only difference is, one of them is punishable by permanently banning my account and the other one isn't.

So Riot should only allow players of a certain proficiency level to play? What arbitrary level of proficiency should be required, do you think? And - perhaps more importantly - how are players intended to gain or demonstrate that proficiency, if they aren't allowed to play?

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Please don't make assumptions about me. It won't ever do you any favors.

So Riot should only allow players of a certain proficiency level to play? What arbitrary level of proficiency should be required, do you think? And - perhaps more importantly - how are players intended to gain or demonstrate that proficiency, if they aren't allowed to play?

Not what I'm saying.

I'm saying if players are allowed to be bad, then I should be allowed to tell them that they are.

If players are allowed to ruin my games by going 0-7 and having no sense of how or what to do in that situation to at least have some kind of usefullness, then I should be allowed to call them godamn fucking feeding douche bags. The fact that I am not allowed to say that, yet they are allowed to be just as terrible as they like is toxic to me as a player.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to be terrible, hell, sometimes I'm terrible, but I don't have such thin skin that I run crying to mommy Rito every time someone calls me out for doing something bad and I certainly don't expect mommy Rito to hold my hand and send the other players to their rooms if I do.

Because here's the thing. Ranked isn't where you learn to play the game. It's not my duty or my responsibility to train every fucking noob I run into in ranked and sure, telling the 0-7 Ryze feeding the smurfing Riven isn't going to suddenly make him start NOT being terrible, but by the same respect, it couldn't possibly make it worse because when you give a Diamond smurf Riven boosting a gold account a 7-0 lead, your game is probably over no matter WHAT you do. So I might as well get just a little satisfaction in calling that Ryze a fucking loser scrub who ruined my series, cause what the fuck else am I supposed to do while I wait for the inevitable end to this stupid fucking game.

And you can say "You're just being toxic by giving up, maybe you can come back" yeah, no, we've all had this game that I'm describing. The only way we come back is if lightning strike's the Riven's ISP. We all know that, don't even try to deny it.

But I can't say that, because I will be banned. So I troll the Ryze. I try to get him to say something bannable and then I report him no matter what he says, because I can't just tell him he's a fucking scrub.

No, it doesn't make sense, yes it's a completely emotional response.

IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME!

EvilDustManOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not what I'm saying.

I'm saying if players are allowed to be bad, then I should be allowed to tell them that they are.

If players are allowed to ruin my games by going 0-7 and having no sense of how or what to do in that situation to at least have some kind of usefullness, then I should be allowed to call them godamn fucking feeding douche bags. The fact that I am not allowed to say that, yet they are allowed to be just as terrible as they like is toxic to me as a player.

Okay, now we are at the root of the problem. I highly doubt you got any unwarranted reports, then. You are a highly toxic person who doesn't understand how to reasonably deal with someone on your team.

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Okay, now we are at the root of the problem. I highly doubt you got any unwarranted reports, then. You are a highly toxic person who doesn't understand how to reasonably deal with someone on your team.

What part of "it's a video game" is not clear here.

I don't come here to deal with people reasonably. I come here to blow them the fuck up with magical powers. I deal with people in a reasonable manner in real life all the fucking time. Keep that shit the fuck out of my video games.

Look, there are legitimate forms of harassment that can be done to people over the internet. Calling them bad at a video game IN THE COURSE OF PLAYING THAT VIDEO GAME is not one of them. If you don't like what I have to say, MUTE ME. For fuck sakes, what part of unrated multiplayer interactions is not fucking clear to people.

SkadeglädjeOct 31, 20151 votes

But that's not what we want. The rest of us. We don't want your interpretation of "unrated multiplayer interactions". The majority wants something else.

EvilDustManOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But that's not what we want. The rest of us. We don't want your interpretation of "unrated multiplayer interactions". The majority wants something else.

The boards are the minority. You are a very loud minority, but a minority.

SkadeglädjeOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The boards are the minority. You are a very loud minority, but a minority.

To clarify - I don't want Unward49's interpretation of "unrated multiplayer interactions". I realize my post was ambiguous. Reading through your other comments in this thread I suspect we both want/expect the same behaviour from our fellow gamers.

EvilDustManOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

To clarify - I don't want Unward49's interpretation of "unrated multiplayer interactions". I realize my post was ambiguous. Reading through your other comments in this thread I suspect we both want/expect the same behaviour from our fellow gamers.

d("d) Hard to keep track.

JubbinautOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not what I'm saying.

Yes, I know. I'm extrapolating the argument to an extreme to make a point.

I'm saying if players are allowed to be bad, then I should be allowed to tell them that they are.

Because that makes total sense.

Does that also mean that, because players are allowed to do meta-breaking things, build trolls should be allowed to do what they want?

Or perhaps that intentional feeding should be allowed?

And yes, I know that's not what you're saying. My point is, at what arbitrary point do you draw that line? How many players must your decision directly affect before you address the behavior?

Because I'm not talking about the 0-7 dude, when I say you're affecting other players' games. I'm talking about the rest of your team - who are already in the same situation as you (stuck with a dude who has no idea what he's doing), and now have to deal with an annoying rager on top of that.

If players are allowed to ruin my games by going 0-7 and having no sense of how or what to do in that situation to at least have some kind of usefullness, then I should be allowed to call them godamn fucking feeding douche bags. The fact that I am not allowed to say that, yet they are allowed to be just as terrible as they like is toxic to me as a player.

Fair enough. But you're in the vast minority, here.

Of course, if they're simply ignorant or unskilled, "douchebag" is a pretty pointless epithet to toss at them, since it implies direct intent.

Also, it's not very helpful to your goals, which makes it seem rather counter-productive. But that's just my take.

And I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to be terrible, hell, sometimes I'm terrible, but I don't have such thin skin that I run crying to mommy Rito every time someone calls me out for doing something bad and I certainly don't expect mommy Rito to hold my hand and send the other players to their rooms if I do.

Let's make sure we both understand something, here. Riot is a business.

If Riot turned away players who had no skill, they would be incapable of making money.

If Riot allowed their existing community to turn away players who had no skill (and let's be clear: shit-talking people who are already having a rough time can and will turn them away), they would - again - be incapable of making money.

In which case, there would be no game for any of us to play.

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Things

When did I ever bitch about any of those things.

Not once.

Build any stupid thing you like, play any stupid champ you like, use any stupid runes and masteries you like. Do anything and everything that the game allows you to on a mechanical level. I will never say you can't do it or even that you should be punished for doing it. I have never once advocated that. Not once in all of this rambling bullshit did I even imply that players should be punished for playing the game.

Is that what you fuckwits don't understand about me? Is that what you're not getting when I say do away with this report bullshit? I'm saying scrap it all! All of it!

If you want to play full AP soraka jungle, you go right ahead and fucking do it... But I also reserve the right to use the game's built in chat mechanic to tell you just what a piece of fucking shit I think you are for doing it and you should be prepared to get that kind of response whenever you try your stupid bullshit.

THAT is what I'm saying. That is what I have ALWAYS been saying.

Because Riot doesn't punish people who just use the mechanics of their game badly. They don't punish people intentionally feeding (so long as they're creative about it) they don't punish people playing off meta or any of the other things you mentioned. ALL they will punish you for is for typing certain words into their in game chat system. That is ALL you can be punished for.

JubbinautOct 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Is that what you fuckwits don't understand about me? Is that what you're not getting when I say do away with this report bullshit? I'm saying scrap it all! All of it!

Continuing to insult me isn't going to do you any favors. Statements like that tend to encourage people to dismiss your arguments out of hand.

If you want to play full AP soraka jungle, you go right ahead and fucking do it... But I also reserve the right to use the game's built in chat mechanic to tell you just what a piece of fucking shit I think you are for doing it and you should be prepared to get that kind of response whenever you try your stupid bullshit.

So if I wanna build Mobi+5 Zeal and try to go 0/100/0, I should be allowed to?

Just as long as you can badmouth me?

So... is there any behavior that you think should be addressed?

Because Riot doesn't punish people who just use the mechanics of their game badly. They don't punish people intentionally feeding (so long as they're creative about it) they don't punish people playing off meta or any of the other things you mentioned. ALL they will punish you for is for typing certain words into their in game chat system. That is ALL you can be punished for.

Except Leaverbuster is a thing - it issues punishments for players who leave games too often.

And the Instant Feedback system was recently updated to detect intentional feeding - because that's always been punishable.

Perma-bans have been issued for spamming emotes. And for report abuse. And for abusing Anivia walls/Trundle pillars. If there haven't yet been any bans for abusing Bard/Kalista ults, or Tahm's Devour, it's only a matter of time.

So I'm gonna have to just disagree when you say that chatting is the only thing you can be punished for. Because years of logs and bans say otherwise.

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If you want to play full AP soraka jungle, you go right ahead and fucking do it... But I also reserve the right to use the game's built in chat mechanic to tell you just what a piece of fucking shit I think you are for doing it and you should be prepared to get that kind of response whenever you try your stupid bullshit.

THAT is what I'm saying. That is what I have ALWAYS been saying.

This brings up a blast from the past: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1620168

You value performance over experience. That's fine. Just remember that there are a lot of people who feel differently and their perspective is no less valuable than yours.

Because Riot doesn't punish people who just use the mechanics of their game badly. They don't punish people intentionally feeding (so long as they're creative about it) they don't punish people playing off meta or any of the other things you mentioned. ALL they will punish you for is for typing certain words into their in game chat system. That is ALL you can be punished for.

I must have imagined all the crying over the LeaverBuster bans, then. Or the ELO boosting bans. Or the Zoom Hack bans. And so on.

Busty DemonessOct 31, 20152 votes

OP, I've noticed several things that tell me that you are on the road towards a permanent ban.

One, you state yourself that your "retaliation" actions are unreasonable. Being unreasonable often escalates a situation, and an escalated situation is one that's all the more likely to end up with someone getting hit hard. The situation tells me that it's likely going to be you, in the form of a harsh punishment on your account.

Two, you want to insult players who perform badly, and even acknowledge that their poor performance isn't an offense that can be reported or banned. Yet at the same time, you want to be able to insult them without retribution. You say they're affecting your experience? Ok, so that's one player who is not enjoying the poor performance of their ally. How many players are going to have their experience affected by your raging? Four! Wow, that's something to consider. And that's not taking into account whether you take it to all chat either. You obviously have no sense of balance or cause and effect.

Three, you've been incredibly aggressive in all of your posts. You want us to believe that you're reasonable in real life? I'm going to remind you that being online is nothing but having a mask. A mask that most people can't see through, but it means that there are still people behind each one. Why do you think that being online is that different from real life? The medium of communication is different, sure. But that's really all it is. You're still talking to other people who are using the same internet, you just aren't looking at them face to face. You each have a mask.

And if you can't be bothered to read those, here's a TL;DR: Read the entire post.

Unward49Oct 30, 20151 votes

I want them to completely do away with the report system. I think it is counter productive to their goals. I am not alone in thinking that.

I think it is to behavioral modification what the TSA is to airline security. Pure theater.

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I think it is to behavioral modification what the TSA is to airline security. Pure theater.

Then why has toxicity gone down steadily since the report system was introduced?

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Then why has toxicity gone down steadily since the report system was introduced?

And if big brother Rito says that it has, then it must be so. All hail Rito!

Funny how it FEELS exactly as toxic as it's always been though.

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

And if big brother Rito says that it has, then it must be so. All hail Rito!

Funny how it FEELS exactly as toxic as it's always been though.

It's hard to have a conversation when you're assuming malfeasance on Riot's part, especially when there isn't any evidence of it. There have been enough "disgruntled employees" leaving Riot that we would have heard about anything that fishy by now.

Regardless, what's probably going on is simple confirmation bias. You remember negative things more easily than positive. Lyte did that thing on the boards last year where he asked people to try and remember how many of their last 10 games had a genuinely negative person in them.

Their memory: 6-7. Actual: 0-1.

Android CowboyOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's hard to have a conversation when you're assuming malfeasance on Riot's part, especially when there isn't any evidence of it. There have been enough "disgruntled employees" leaving Riot that we would have heard about anything that fishy by now.

You obviously know nothing about non-disclosure agreements that people sign when they become employees. This is so that upon their separation from the company they can be sued (and other types of legal action can be brought against them) if they go talking about things like that.... or ANYTHING not positive about their previous employer. Knowledge is power. Gnar

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Android Cowboy,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3onAEeQu,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-31T13:57:14.552+0000)

You obviously know nothing about non-disclosure agreements that people sign when they become employees.

It would get out, regardless of a NDA. It always does.

LiveYiOrDieHardOct 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Then why has toxicity gone down steadily since the report system was introduced?

Toxicity has gotten way worse for people who don't conform 100% to the meta. Try picking AP nasus support for example (it's actually not bad if you play it right) and watch what happens. In the distant past, most of the time, people would just yell at you all game, and if you laughed at them they'd often stop.

Now, in addition to that, they troll the hell out of you, try to get you reported by all 9 players, enemy players verbally harass you far more often because "people who play like you shouldn't be allowed in this game", and open mid after 5 minutes if they've died once. If you respond to them at all you're just setting yourself up to get even more reports. Blow off their insults and you're obviously a troll, contradict their ridiculous logic of how AP Nasus support is causing the top laner to go 0-5 and they claim you're refusing to listen to them. They basically do their best to screw you over during the game so that they can blame the game on you and get you reported more.

The community thinks "anything I don't like is trolling and that means they should be banned" so they spam reports on EVERYTHING they dislike. This also happens when you pick a lane somebody wanted, don't do well enough for somebody's tastes, disagree with somebody's shotcalling, don't obey when people try to tell you to do something, etc.

If that's not toxic then I don't know what is.

I don't even like or agree with most of what the OP is saying. But I get so much verbal abuse in pretty much every damn game I play (even when not playing non meta, simply if I'm playing badly or somebody thinks I'm playing badly) and I can't even say a damn word back to them or else people flip out and spam reports on me.

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Toxicity has gotten way worse for people who don't conform 100% to the meta. Try picking AP nasus support for example (it's actually not bad if you play it right) and watch what happens. In the distant past, most of the time, people would just yell at you all game, and if you laughed at them they'd often stop.

I agree with you that there are some problems here. They're why I avoid ranked, but they're also why ranked Team Builder is coming. I hear rumors that it should appear during the pre-season and that it should address most of these concerns.

I don't even like or agree with most of what the OP is saying. But I get so much verbal abuse in pretty much every damn game I play (even when not playing non meta, simply if I'm playing badly or somebody thinks I'm playing badly) and I can't even say a damn word back to them or else people flip out and spam reports on me.

Just so you know, if you aren't seeing warnings, you're doing okay. Regardless of how bad it feels, you're not getting enough valid reports to affect your account.

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted} All of this

Yup, that was me a year ago. Give it time Yi, give it time. You will become jaded and vindictive towards the fuckwits and Riot will continue to make it harder and harder to be a reasonable person having reasonable responses and then you'll just say fuck it and start trolling on purpose.

All this has happened before and it shall happen again.

jaymc1130Oct 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Yup, that was me a year ago. Give it time Yi, give it time. You will become jaded and vindictive towards the fuckwits and Riot will continue to make it harder and harder to be a reasonable person having reasonable responses and then you'll just say fuck it and start trolling on purpose.

All this has happened before and it shall happen again.

He's been around for ages and seen it all mate. Some of us just cope better than you. The world isn't a perfect place, we know that. But the world not being a perfect place wouldn't justify the type of rampage you propose to go on. That would make it a worse place. It would cause more of the exact problems you say you dislike. If you seek change, you must first become the change you seek to see it take root in the world around you.

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

He's been around for ages and seen it all mate. Some of us just cope better than you. The world isn't a perfect place, we know that. But the world not being a perfect place wouldn't justify the type of rampage you propose to go on. That would make it a worse place. It would cause more of the exact problems you say you dislike. If you seek change, you must first become the change you seek to see it take root in the world around you.

Good Ghandi quote.

I am doing exactly the same thing that Ghandi did. I am abusing an unjust system with the only power left to me. And I am being the change I want to see. I want a game where I am free to say anything I want without fear of persecution and loss of property.

EvilDustManOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted} I am abusing an unjust system with the only power left to me. And I am being the change I want to see. I want a game where I am free to say anything I want without fear of persecution and loss of property.

wegotabadassoverhere.jpg

jaymc1130Oct 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Good Ghandi quote.

I am doing exactly the same thing that Ghandi did. I am abusing an unjust system with the only power left to me. And I am being the change I want to see. I want a game where I am free to say anything I want without fear of persecution and loss of property.

Ghandi's efforts never harmed another individual. Your efforts might and likely will. There is a difference.

Unward49Oct 31, 20151 votes

[deleted]

jaymc1130Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Are you fucking stupid? His boycott of British textiles did massive damage to England's economy. His policies on none violent resistance got thousands of people massacred. That was the whole POINT of his revolution. That you could actually achieve far greater effect by pointedly refusing to fight back, to harm yourself a little bit in order to harm your enemy more. He got thousands of people killed in doing it. If you think none violence is the same as not hurting any one, you're either flagrantly ignorant or just fucking retarded.

England planted the seeds of it's own economic perils by oppressing subjugated masses the world over for centuries. They harmed themselves. Ghandis choices led others to make their own personal choices, whether or not they were harmed was up to them. What your opinion on the matter seems to be is that because others rape, pillage, and oppress, it's something you should be allowed to do without consequence. That has never been the case, there are always consequences to negative action. To be rid of negative actions in a community the community must commit to performing only approved actions. Standards must be adhered to, something you claim others should be held to, but refuse to hold yourself to. So I repeat, if you wish to see the changes you claim you desire you must first make those changes in yourself. There's nothing more to be said. Change radiates outward, either positive or negative. You must choose one. One choice results in what you say you seek, the other results in banishment. Take your pick.

Unward49Nov 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

England planted the seeds of it's own economic perils by oppressing subjugated masses the world over for centuries. They harmed themselves. Ghandis choices led others to make their own personal choices, whether or not they were harmed was up to them. What your opinion on the matter seems to be is that because others rape, pillage, and oppress, it's something you should be allowed to do without consequence. That has never been the case, there are always consequences to negative action. To be rid of negative actions in a community the community must commit to performing only approved actions. Standards must be adhered to, something you claim others should be held to, but refuse to hold yourself to. So I repeat, if you wish to see the changes you claim you desire you must first make those changes in yourself. There's nothing more to be said. Change radiates outward, either positive or negative. You must choose one. One choice results in what you say you seek, the other results in banishment. Take your pick.

If "positive change" in your mind is synonymous with "self censorship" then I utterly reject your interpretation of what constitutes positive change. I refuse to adhere to the rules of a system that would rather me censor myself as I believe that system to be unjust by it's nature. It's not my fucking job to do what the masses tells me is appropriate.

Riot has it in their power to make it impossible to do the things that they say are counter to their code of conduct. If it is against their code of conduct to call someone a noob, they can physically remove that word from the vocabulary of things that you can say in chat. If it is against the code of conduct to intentionally feed, then if the game can detect you doing it, it should instantly kick you from the game, instantly punish you with a week long ban and give a loss forgiven to each of your team mates and a couple of consolation lp to the enemy team.

These things are within Riot's power to do, if they so desire to do it. If they are not willing to do it, then all they create with their fucking "punishment by democracy" model is a witch hunt. You know I'm right. Everyone knows I'm right about this, yet you persist in defending their actions as just and reasonable. They are neither. Oppression by the majority is still oppression.

EvilDustManNov 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If "positive change" in your mind is synonymous with "self censorship" then I utterly reject your interpretation of what constitutes positive change. I refuse to adhere to the rules of a system that would rather me censor myself as I believe that system to be unjust by it's nature. It's not my fucking job to do what the masses tells me is appropriate.

Riot has it in their power to make it impossible to do the things that they say are counter to their code of conduct. If it is against their code of conduct to call someone a noob, they can physically remove that word from the vocabulary of things that you can say in chat. If it is against the code of conduct to intentionally feed, then if the game can detect you doing it, it should instantly kick you from the game, instantly punish you with a week long ban and give a loss forgiven to each of your team mates and a couple of consolation lp to the enemy team.

These things are within Riot's power to do, if they so desire to do it. If they are not willing to do it, then all they create with their fucking "punishment by democracy" model is a witch hunt. You know I'm right. Everyone knows I'm right about this, yet you persist in defending their actions as just and reasonable. They are neither. Oppression by the majority is still oppression.

https://youtu.be/JvKIWjnEPNY?t=2m25s

I love how you make yourself up to be this Batman villain. God, it's amazing, I really hope you don't believe any of this because it's absolutely crap, but man, it's hilarious to watch.

Unward49Nov 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

https://youtu.be/JvKIWjnEPNY?t=2m25s

I love how you make yourself up to be this Batman villain. God, it's amazing, I really hope you don't believe any of this because it's absolutely crap, but man, it's hilarious to watch.

This one is more appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

EvilDustManNov 1, 20156 votes

{quoted}

This one is more appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yp_l5ntikaU

Oh sweet lord it isn't. No, I don't want this to stop. I want there to be a comic after you. THE DARK REVENGER. Standing up for a cause no one believes in. He fights alone in the dark against pillow cases he imagines are conspiracies.

THE DARK REVENGER. His unique brand of cruel justice is tepid and pointless.

THE DARK REVENGER. No one actually knows what he is complaining about at this point but they want him to get out of the way so they can get their coffee.

THE DARK REVENGER. No board is safe from his tinfoil hat and eloquence.

THE DARK REVENGER. Meh.

SmokedAlmondsOct 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Good Ghandi quote.

I am doing exactly the same thing that Ghandi did. I am abusing an unjust system with the only power left to me. And I am being the change I want to see. I want a game where I am free to say anything I want without fear of persecution and loss of property.

Your methods are a lot more similar to terrorism than anything ghandi did.

ModUlanopoOct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I want a game where I am free to say anything I want without fear of persecution and loss of property.

This isn't that game. As Sartre said, "L'enfer, c'est les autres" which loosely translates as "Being in a multiplayer game means having to put up with other people."

jaymc1130Oct 31, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Toxicity has gotten way worse for people who don't conform 100% to the meta. Try picking AP nasus support for example (it's actually not bad if you play it right) and watch what happens. In the distant past, most of the time, people would just yell at you all game, and if you laughed at them they'd often stop.

Now, in addition to that, they troll the hell out of you, try to get you reported by all 9 players, enemy players verbally harass you far more often because "people who play like you shouldn't be allowed in this game", and open mid after 5 minutes if they've died once. If you respond to them at all you're just setting yourself up to get even more reports. Blow off their insults and you're obviously a troll, contradict their ridiculous logic of how AP Nasus support is causing the top laner to go 0-5 and they claim you're refusing to listen to them. They basically do their best to screw you over during the game so that they can blame the game on you and get you reported more.

The community thinks "anything I don't like is trolling and that means they should be banned" so they spam reports on EVERYTHING they dislike. This also happens when you pick a lane somebody wanted, don't do well enough for somebody's tastes, disagree with somebody's shotcalling, don't obey when people try to tell you to do something, etc.

If that's not toxic then I don't know what is.

.

.

I don't even like or agree with most of what the OP is saying. But I get so much verbal abuse in pretty much every damn game I play (even when not playing non meta, simply if I'm playing badly or somebody thinks I'm playing badly) and I can't even say a damn word back to them or else people flip out and spam reports on me.

Yeah, I know what ya mean mate, and this is a legitimate concern. The OP, however, is still looney.