i think dodge penalties are ridiculous. i think every 10 wins, you should store a "dodge charge", capped at 3. [un-usable when auto-filled]
tactical dodges are used by every half-way decent player, to avoid trolling individuals [
Top w/ cleanse/ghost /poor compositions.
this would slightly increase queue times. but overall improve the ranked experience.
Drugoth5 votesI disagree with this as a player that never dodges for any reason and here's why:
You can't report that player. Trolls are already gaming the system, if champion select doesn't go their way, they threaten to troll to try to force a dodge. If dodging penalties were removed or a dodge system was put in place, we will end up queuing up infinitely as we deal with dodge after dodge.
If you don't dodge and that player ints or trolls in the game you can report them and get them punished, discouraging further attempts at such behavior. If you dodge the lobby, you're practically giving the troll exactly what he wants plus he can't get punished as an added bonus.
So I say nay to your dodge system, my friend.
Moist Alcoholic1 votesdodging penalties being removed when you have gained a free dodge credit, is different from removing dodge penalties all together. a system requiring X wins to gain a dodge is fine. your entire premise is that
"you cant punish people that force you to dodge via trolling picks", of course you currently cant. you wouldnt be able to. this suggestion doesnt affect that.
this suggestion slightly increases queue times, likely by 30 seconds maybe 1 minute or 2 [in extreme circumstances where a high percentage of players are simultaneously using their earned dodge credit]
and you sir, as a player who never dodges - should really look into tactical dodges. losing 3lp and 5 minutes of your time to avoid a troll or a terrible team comp. [lose 15-20 LP and 20+ minutes] example:
team a: riven, lee sin, talon, sivir, nami against team b: shen, maokai, syndra, cait, janna. if youre on team A, youre not in your promos, you arent gonna receive more than 5 minute queue timer, and you dont dodge; you have issues.
team A can only win this game against incompetence. maybe team A can win lane; but in reality team B just has to not die and stay somewhat relevant in cs to win. thats a dodge right there.
team A really has the option of snowballing, or incompetence on the enemy team.
------ unfortunately you cannot control what your allies pick. and more often than not, asking others to not choose their hovered champion seems to result in toxicity, or the common "can you play X" - "sure", turns into a 1st/2nd time maokai jungle. because he's op so lets say sure and do it despite having no experience on the champion.
my proposal simple offers a way to tactfully dodge without penalty, at the expense of what is likely no more than 30 seconds of extra queue time. [assuming the dodge charges once used, place you back into queue, rather than to the main menu of the client]
Drugoth1 votesI have read and acknowledge your points, but I still disagree with you. LCS players don't get a second chance at champ select, that would be ridiculous! Why do you think we should be treated differently? Tactical dodging is seen as gaming the system by Riot and that is why they punish for it.
Moist Alcoholic1 votesthats my point though man. we arent lcs, a group of individuals who talk out the pick/ban phase and decide collectively on what the best option are. we're solo queue players forced to be penalized via dodge timer, or lp loss when our allies decide not to pick for the team, instead of for themselves. but thats okay, we can agree to disagree :]
Chermorg3 votesYou’re supposed to talk out the pick/ban phase.
Part of casual League (I.e. not LCS) is your ability to work with complete strangers.
Moist Alcoholic1 votesidk if you play ranked often; i couldnt speak to normals but; generally when you try to suggest picks, builds or a strategy people either ignore you or flame you. every now and then youll get some cooperative allies; who are interested in discussing pick/ban phase builds or strategy. - this is my experience anyway
Chermorg2 votesIt doesn’t matter if people use it right or not.
The core game mechanic is that the champion selection is a team effort to build a team while under time pressure and under ban/pick order pressure.
That mechanic will not be changed unless Riot wants to change it, which they’ve shown through their lack of implementation of this (and their dodge penalties) that they do not want to change it.
Moist Alcoholic1 votes[deleted]
Chermorg2 votesI am not spamming. You are continuing to not respond to my points, even when I am stating them in multiple different ways.
I’m done with this discussion. You didn’t come here for a discussion, you came for “yes men” who agree with your ideas.
Drugoth1 votesFine, agree to disagree, but I'm still mad at you for using my bae as an example. :(
Moist Alcoholic1 votesxD which one?
Drugoth1 votesNami! She's my one and true love. My goddess, my everything!
Moist Alcoholic1 votesoh lol. i like nami; i just dont like any role but support (;
Drugoth2 votesTrue, support is pretty much the only role that she can carry from, but she carries like a champ. She definitely doesn't have the damage scaling to be competitive in 1v1 lanes and it's a waste of her true potential anyways.
Mizuki Zahra4 votesa 1 min summoner spell change for the junglers that forget smite would be nice too
Moist Alcoholic2 votescant; itd allow anyone to change summoner spells based on enemy summoners/runes/masterys once in game
Mizuki Zahra1 votesand dodge charges wont stop high elo players from farming free wins?
SecondAirbane3 votesyeah unusable when autofilled
no
Moist Alcoholic1 votesun-usable when auto filled to prevent queue times from being ridiculous. as auto fill is designed to fix it .
Chermorg3 votesTactical dodges are not a thing.
”Redo”s in champ select are not a thing.
There is no mechanic in the game to redo champion select. The idea is that champion select is an integral part of the game where teams are selected. There are no redos or do overs. You get the team you get and you play with that.
I don’t see how you can understand “it’d allow anyone to change... based on enemy...” but you don’t understand that a redo is literally the exact same concept.
Moist Alcoholic1 votestactical dodges are a thing. you find a single d2+ player that doesnt tactically dodge; and id be surprised if you showed me 1 p5 player that doesnt tbh.
changing summoner spells after you see the enemys choices of SS/runes/masterys creates problems. now we know pantheon isnt top 100%, lets not take exhaust/tp and instead go for kill pressure [ignite]. as an example.
redo's in champ select are a thing, it costs 5 minutes and 20 seconds + 3lp to dodge. [unless you over do it, resulting in longer timers],
the difference of the above users suggestion [the smite idea], and my idea, is one is an earned credit that can remove the current cost in exchange for a new one; a credit which is earned via wins + a slight increase in queue timers
as you cannot control what your allies are going to pick. this can result in very bad team comps. this isnt LCS, we arent on voice com. this is solo queue and unfortunately people dont always play for the team. -but its ranked. idc who you want to play; you see they have pantheon and lee sin locked in; why are you picking teemo top. you see we need an AP mid laner; why are you choosing lucian mid when they have 2 tanks. #stacking armor.
Chermorg3 votesNone of those are Riot sanctioned.
Riot does not approve of tactical dodges. They are not a part of the game mechanics. Thus, Riot will not ever do anything to enable them.
Moist Alcoholic1 votesriot once required you use an item to back. riot once said hah free wards?
you dont work for riot. you are not a riot representative, you do not get to state such an opinion as fact.
Deep Terror Nami3 votesLet's chill please. I see an argument that derails the thread forming, and we don't need that.
Chermorg3 votesThere are certain things that are critical game mechanics. Size of team, general shape of map (three lanes), etc.
The lack of a “get out of jail free” card when you don’t like your champion selection outcome is one of those mechanics. You don’t get to wait for the best team comp to play a game. You have to play with the team comp as it goes. Part of the game is understanding pick order/ban order and making good teams with it.
Moist Alcoholic1 votesmy suggestion doesnt allow you to "Wait for the best team comp", you have a capped amount of dodges which are granted as rewards. if you dodge when auto-filled or dodge when you have no "dodge charges", the current penalties would apply.
as with the other individual who disagreed with me, lets agree to disagree.
Chermorg3 votesBut it does allow you to “skip” team comps that were validly picked that you don’t like.
You can cap it all you want, but the bottom line is that it will allow people to dodge games simply because they don’t like how champ select turned out. This mechanic you suggest runs contrary to the idea that champ select is supposed to be a high stakes part of the game - the picks are time-limited and final.
You came to a forum to have a discussion. If you’d rather not have a discussion, you’re more than welcome to agree to disagree. But that’s not the point of a forum discussion.
Moist Alcoholic1 votesi came to this forum to pitch my idea; so far the only hole thrown in it has been queue timers, imo. all other points have been countered by logic. if you disagree that is fine,
if you have a new point to discuss, lets discuss it; otherwise youve expressed your opinion on my idea, i disagree. that does not mean im not up for a discussion, it means i do not agree with the opinions youve presented.
so feel free to stay, if you have a new point to make.
Chermorg1 votesThe point I made of it being counter to the core game mechanic of champion select being a part of the game itself has not been countered.
That is not an opinion - it is fact. There is a reason this idea gets pitched almost every week (if not multiple times per week) and Riot has not done anything on it. It is not going to happen because it’s contrary to the core game mechanic of champion selection.
You can’t just say that you disagree with that fact. You can’t claim it’s an opinion just because you don’t like it. And you can’t change that fact regardless of your personal beliefs - Riot made the game, they decide what are core mechanics and are not.
Blutseuche1 votesI actually think everyone should have a free dodge per day or every 2 days, just when there is a game they really dont want to play, due to for example a legit troll, even though they are rare.
I dont think tactical dodges should be a thing and it could be abused, but come on. While rare, there are the games where my entire team is autofilled and im at Bot, why would i want to play this game?