Those Aurelion Sol nerfs on PBE doe.....

BeatzBoyFTW·May 11, 2016·39 votes·3,387 views

Does anyone thinks this is useless since I've seen nobody playing this dragon at all?

61 Comments

Fives55555May 11, 201619 votes

Nerf Aurelion who takes skill to play, but leave Annie who just points at you, clicks all her buttons and kills you instantly without any way of counter-play

Stars ShaperMay 11, 20161 votes

And has innate mana regen on point&click spell.

BeatzBoyFTWMay 11, 201622 votes

And an assassin Zed who still didn't get touched at all after the QSS changes.

Handin Out NapsMay 11, 20163 votes

Yeah that might have something to do with the fact that his win rate went up by a whole 1% to a whopping 50% win rate while aurelion sol has a 56% winrate? That's just my guess though.

MrWasjigMay 12, 20163 votes

Play rates? Consider those _alongside _ win rates before commenting.

Yuri By MailMay 12, 20161 votes

So then he brings a far more fair lane then?

Play rates?

I'd love to play every game where I have roughly a 50% chance of winning -- that's fair.

Handin Out NapsMay 12, 20161 votes

Oh you want statistics? Yeah don't worry I'll give you statistics.

Player base average games played Zed: 55 Sol: 21

Winrate by games played

Zed Number of games 1-5: ~ 49% 5-15: ~ 49% 15-50: ~49% 50-125: ~ 52% 125+: ~ 55%

Sol Number of games 1-5: ~55% 5-15: ~52% 15-50: ~ 57% 50-125: ~61% 125+: ~57%

Player base Experience distribution

Zed Numbet of games 1-5: 15% 5-15: 19% 15-50: 32% 50-125: 20% 125+: 11%

Sol Number of games 1-5: 39% 5-15: 17% 15-50: 22% 50-125: 10% 125+: 3%

I'm honestly not sure why you guys keep sitting here telling yourselves "that champ has a low playrate so that must mean it's only played by dedicated mains." That's legit the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Sol's player base is completely dominated by new players yet he maintains a ridiculous winrate, and honestly stop acting like playrate means everything because it doesnt.

http://champion.gg/champion/Zed http://champion.gg/champion/AurelionSol

MrWasjigMay 12, 20162 votes

I'm honestly not sure why you guys keep sitting here telling yourselves "that champ has a low playrate so that must mean it's only played by dedicated mains."

I never said that at all for starters. I simply said consider play rates alongside winrates because sometimes the latter can be skewed artificially, like say if lots of inexperienced players are picking up a champion it can artificially lower winrates.

honestly stop acting like playrate means everything because it doesnt.

Refer to my previous opening sentence. If playrate meant everything I would have just told you "Look at his playrates alone dur hur". And again I didn't make motions in that direction. Both pieces of data are very much linked together when it comes to judging how OP or UP someone is at a glance.

Sol OP? Fine, I have no problems with that. If they're gonna nerf him that's fine. I'm not arguing that, so don't get arsey with me over nothing Sir!

BoulderoxMay 11, 20161 votes

yes but when zed is EVER ~50% winrate he is permabanned because he has a 50/50 chance of being the most broken thing in the game or shit, and its not worth the risk of him being a monster.

Blue Moon WolfMay 12, 20161 votes

To make matters worse, Assassins are likely going to be the next class to be worked on. Guess who's likely going to make out like a bandit with new assassin items and a possible kit update.

Vellich0rMay 11, 20161 votes

That's actually kind of the reason. A champion who is easy is actually expected to have a higher than 50% winrate because anyone playing them can and will have an impact; however, Aurelion Sol is a very high skillcap champion, so even at a low playrate people trying to first second or third time him in ranked SHOULD be dragging his winrate down to sub 50, but at 54% that means he is too strong in the wrong hands and WAY too strong in the right hands.

ByuisoMay 11, 20164 votes

But people on the other side don't know how to play Aurelion very well. His kit is weird and he is a new champion, but if you play Aurelion, learn his kit and then play against an Aurelion you know how to beat him easily.

In other words? The lack of knowledge revolving him is also a cause for his win-rate.

cool165May 12, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Taric Winters,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=yFzA3mvG,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2016-05-11T19:26:18.539+0000)

That's actually kind of the reason. A champion who is easy is actually expected to have a higher than 50% winrate because anyone playing them can and will have an impact; however, Aurelion Sol is a very high skillcap champion, so even at a low playrate people trying to first second or third time him in ranked SHOULD be dragging his winrate down to sub 50, but at 54% that means he is too strong in the wrong hands and WAY too strong in the right hands.

but nobody is playing him though so you only have the people who actually main him picking him in a game.

RISE Shlack123May 11, 20161 votes

And allow item 3152 to exist

ProfirixMay 12, 20161 votes

item 3030 is better for him.

Old Man TeetoMay 11, 201614 votes

Riot: "Hmm Aurelion Sol was picked at MSI and almost won... he also has a winning ratio in top and mid." Riot: "Well we did just launch a ton of new items for APs..." Riot: "Nerf? Nerf."

DorkunedAurasMay 11, 201611 votes

He's like Azir. He's hard to learn, but OP AF if you know what you're doing.

CasterGilgameshMay 11, 20168 votes

I would hardly call him op when mastered at most just not bad when known how to play right there is nothing op in his kit at all

ByuisoMay 11, 20165 votes

Personally I don't understand why they nerfed him to begin with the first time around.

He has a high win-rate but he isn't an easy champ to get a grasp on. Not to mention his weakness can be exploited by so many other champions. Melee champions in general destroy Aurelion. Especially melee champions who can close the gap, or lock him and his stars down.

His win-rate can also be attributed to the fact people don't really know how to play against him. RNG didn't really know and they nearly lost to an Aurelion in MSI.

I have 175k on Aurelion and if I play against an Aurelion I get a melee champion with a gap closer, pull, CC, stun and he loses. Once you know how his kit works he isn't a hard champion to beat.

Takes skill and a lot of practice to master Aurelion but he pretty simple to beat once you know how he works which many people don't know.

OleandervineMay 11, 20164 votes

He is sitting at a 54% win rate last I checked in midl, with 52% top and jungle. This is probably why.

BeatzBoyFTWMay 11, 201629 votes

With only 1% playrate at mid, and jungle & top being below 0.5%. Should have just nerf Galio instead.

IcyPepperMay 11, 20169 votes

There you have it, folks. Context.

VentusDragoonMay 11, 20168 votes

Pretty much this. Aurelion Sol actually isn't in a bad place, but only dedicated players that are actually really good with him are actually playing him, making his winrate look much higher in comparison. Is he weak? Definitely not. Does he have a pretty sad early game? Yeah. Honestly though, I can't think of anything he needs nerfs on aside from a couple of clarity issues. (Ex. His Q and W hitboxes don't always line up with the effect-- I've gotten stunned by his Q while outside of the circle, and gotten his by his Celestial Expansion-boosted stars when they were CERTAINLY not touching me.)

ViashinoWizardMay 12, 20161 votes

His average winrate for players with only 1-5 games on him is 51.5%. At just 5-15 games it shoots up to 56%+, and it only goes higher from there. So it's not just dedicated players who have a high success rate: in fact, dedicated players with 125+ games have an average winrate of over 62%. The fact that very few people played Viktor before everyone found out he was crazy strong a while back didn't change the fact that he WAS crazy strong during that "sleeper" period.

J EevoMay 12, 20162 votes

I feel like it's less because of people having to learn him and more about people having to learn how to play AGAINST HIM, which takes longer since he's so rare. If you leave him be, he'll have an impact whether he's experienced or not, passive damage aura works like that. On the other hand if you actually know that you need to stick to his ass closely so he's useless you negate his usefulness heavily.

Stars ShaperMay 11, 20166 votes

Because dedicated players play him good while enemies usually don't know what to do against him for the same reason.

Also we are getting nerfs without context.

PsyturkeyMay 11, 20162 votes

Given his low play rate I don't think that's really an issue though. It means that likely only people who are good at him play him.

Not only that but not many people know how to play against him. 54% historically has been an acceptable number for champs in that kind of position (pre-rework Malz held that win rate for years).

YCitizenSnipsYMay 12, 20163 votes

Lol that champion had to have the quickest rise and fall of any new champion. Before he was released every one couldn't stop talking about how awesome he was. Then he got released and wasn't immediately considered to be OP like other new champions so no one played him. And the ultimate Irony is he is now getting nerfed anyway.

PapaGreg21May 12, 20163 votes

I think his win rate is very high against certain low mobility champs and horrible against gap closing champs. So his win rate probably reflects that he wins almost every game against veigar, annie, etc. but you would never pick him first because diana, fizz would destroy him.

DarkRitualMay 12, 20162 votes

You mean, he has strengths and weaknesses? THIS CAN NOT BE ALLOWED!

PapaGreg21May 12, 20162 votes

I think in his case the strengths and weaknesses are not healthy. He's either going to bully his opponent so hard there is no counterplay or he will be a sitting duck with barely any defense. With other champions, you have windows of opportunity within laning phase where you are strong or weak and you can succeed in the lane if you play smart and capitalize on these. With Sol, you are always very strong against champion x and horrible against champion y so there isn't all that much middle ground to his kit. Riot logic usually dictates when in doubt, nerf to the point where nobody wants to play it.

ByuisoMay 12, 20162 votes

And in the case of Aurelion, champion y is very abundant.

ProfirixMay 12, 20161 votes

Yes, finally someone gets it. You can't first pick this champ because its a death sentence against better players. Its artificially high, somewhat because only really dedicated players are playing him, also because at higher elos, you will only play the champ if you don't get outpicked.

Raiku KawisaMay 11, 20162 votes

Thats what I thought. I haven't seen this dragon since he was released. Do they want him not to be played ever?

AstôlfoMay 11, 20162 votes

Yay, Riot's balance team and their logic. Riot: ignores every other problem Riot: Let's nerf the star dragon that's hard to play well, and is almost never played anyways.

JofeyyMay 12, 20162 votes

He has

+Great theme +Great voice actor +Funny lines +Beautiful textures +Strong abilities

but

-Is absolutely **no **fun to play at all... AurelionSol item 3070

I mean who wants **MOVING **around to be the key theme of their kit? It's lame as all hell. At least Taliyah looks really good but its a shame that he didn't turn out so well.

HatsumaMay 12, 20163 votes

I like him... He's like a big majestic dragon battlecruiser, soaring around the rift booping people to death. Kind of like playing a Protoss Carrier in League :3

Stars ShaperMay 12, 20166 votes

I enjoy playing him a lot. It's really a matter of tastes since he is not your average pewpewer mage.

Aurelion Sol can cause the enemy team to panick out by his mere presence and his roaming is awesome. I don't like these nerfs because he is already suffering from any melee who doesn't stay in star range and his ultimate does already less damage than Lux (both as base and scaling) and has more CD.

AzteryzMay 12, 20162 votes

is it cause of lcs perhaps? (which would be lame)

Blue Moon WolfMay 12, 20162 votes

I have seen him a bit and I will say the damage nerf on his ult might be fair since it's starting to used like a short ranged Lux ult to finish low health enemies rather than as a way to land more hits from his passive, which is Riots intended use for it. But honestly, I see so little of him that I have a hard time thinking that any nerfs are all that necessary on him. I find it easy to avoid his stars by staying right on top of him and even if he stuns me, he doesn't seem to stand much of a chance without allies nearby to save him.

Celeste BenalMay 11, 20161 votes

https://youtu.be/wTAlMtxWo_E?t=4m16s

AbyssionKnightMay 12, 20164 votes

I don't really see how this justifies nerfs. He was played twice, and lost both times.

DeadJokrMay 12, 20161 votes

i just wished they change the q so it would blow on contact with a champion its is so clunky trying to use it on a champ at melee range

HatsumaMay 12, 20163 votes

It explicitly has a small timer so you can't use it point blank vs melee as an intended weakness

DeadJokrMay 12, 20161 votes

im quite aware of that im just saying they should just remove that

HatsumaMay 12, 20161 votes

I dislike that he seems to have gotten pre-emptively nerfed twice, given the far worse offenders out there (~~Lee Sin, Alistar, Kallista~~ [insert whatever OP champ it gives you the warm fuzzies to badmouth here] ... champs like these get to be tier 1 every season with no explanation).

But to be fair, I'm not sure these are huge nerfs. The W cooldown is pretty nonsense from a power perspective and is probably just to prevent weird yo-yo expand/contract plays. For the ult, it's far more useful for the knockback and slow than the damage, and if you land it they're going to die to boops anyways...

But yeah, there have got to be higher priorities than this.

ByuisoMay 12, 20164 votes

I don't know about you but I use the ult as a disengage from melee champions. Seldom do I use it to snipe because there is a high chance you will need it to get a melee off of Aurelion due to the fact he has absolutely no answer to melee champions outside of his ult. If they're going to weaken his ult then should at least lower the CD by like 5-10 seconds because like you stated yourself it is Aurelion's disengage, his only disengage. This is how Aurelion punishes melee champions and punishing his greatest threat is becoming more and more pointless.

Nerfs weren't necessary in the first place when they did it, his weakness his huge and easily exploited by a large portion of the champions in the game. It slightly feels to me they are trying to completely eliminate this champion as a viable pick because he is so unusual and very unknown.

therealdragonMay 12, 20161 votes

If those nerfs aren't reverted by today or tomorrow, then they're gonna stay and get released to live.

Which'll be a shame. The last nerf didn't him that hard as stun time .1s early didn't make a difference on how many hits he got off with his stars. This will though as he won't have dmg outside of stars now for a teamfight. And he wasn't that tanky to begin with so if they keep nerfing his damage, he'll become useless because no damage and no tank

But one can always hope...