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Lyte, your argument for not letting players leave after there's an AFK has always been "abuse cases"

5G8Nri0B54··8 votes·1,167 views

Said abuse cases ranging from stuff such as "ranked 5's taking turn leaving games" and much more commonly..."dickheads will abuse and be toxic to the team's crappiest member in a losing game to force them to leave so they can leave too"

The first scenario is easy to curb and I don't doubt you can think of atleast 5 ways to stop those abuse cases, for instance...DISABLE it for any premades so SoloQ's can still benefit. Or have additional rules in place for premades.

But the SECOND scenario where strangers/premades gang up on a single person to leave...I find hard to swallow.

Where is the precedent? Have there ever been any game 100% like League of Legends where you managed to get the data to find out that, indeed, in a 5v5 or 3v3 MOBA where there is such a harsh penalty for leaving, that if you implement such a function, people will immediately abuse the hell out of it?

As far as I can tell, League of Legends may not be the first MOBA, but it's among the first out there, and I have a hard time believing you managed to gather enough data to actually be confident in your second scenario happening considering you're not likely to find a game 100% like LoL with the perfect environment to test such a hypothesis.

SECONDLY...you do know that forcing players to put up with such an unfun lop-sided match, and completely taking all agency away from their decision to do something about their predicament...also produces toxicity right? Especially when the enemy team are the type prone to spam laugh and taunt animations near the fountain as they super minions slowly hack away at the nexus...

And unlike your "people will abuse it"-scenario, I have multiple firsthand experience that this toxicity, the behaviour of both the winning and losing team, are something that is commonly replicated whenever a game becomes a 4v5. I'm not 100% discounting that you may have a point there that people can abuse it to cause even more toxicity, however.

  • I don't know where you pulled that hypothesis from considering there hasn't been many games that are 100% like LoL

  • Forcing players to trudge on is pretty damn toxic in a competitive game anyways. Even if you agree to Surrender, it takes a ludicrous amount of time for the right to call for a Surrender is enabled. And you can get a person ragequit from as early as getting executed by the first jungle camp. Therefore even if it turns out you are correct that such a function does cause some abuse cases, are you sure it will cause more harm than good when the current "screw those following the rules"-model is already producing ample toxicity?

19 Comments

kromon1k3 votes

Dota2 allows players to leave the game after 5 minutes of someone being AFK for no penalty. It works perfectly fine.

Everyone, even Riot knows that the "would be abused" excuse is tired, worn out bullshit that nobody buys anymore. It's their pitiful excuse for doing nothing to address leavers.

Hibeki1 votes

Also, in dota, you can CONTROL the afk champ, movement and abilities

The Annie Christ1 votes

Man if we had this ability to leave 5 mins after an afk with no penalty. It would help so much tbh. 5 minutes is enough to see if you can still win, and if not, then you can leave for free. Totally reasonable. If only Riot would do so.

disregardable2 votes

If a game is uncomfortable and toxic to you, leave it anyway. If everyone did that, Riot would actually be forced to address people's toxicity.

InsaneSamurai1 votes

I thought the same thing, but in reality Riot cares alot more when you start leaving games. 2 games and you're punished. I wonder how many people trolled 2 games and were immediately punished?

disregardable2 votes

I've left far more than 2 games and have only been put in low priority queue once, for 5 games.

Aurelius Maximus2 votes

Learn to play to improve as a player and not care about winning or losing and you will end up winning mroe with a better attitude and you will see less of this stuff you hate

The Annie Christ2 votes

But winning is fun in all games. Who plays a game to not try and not care to win? yeah im sure theres few, but mostly everyone plays and would much rather play to win after there efforts, then to lose. Not caring who wins or loses doesn't directly help you win more because you have a better attitude. Not caring who wins means you don't try as hard, or don't try to help your team as hard, which leads to losses.

Aurelius Maximus2 votes

the warrior who goes into battle concerned for his life will surely lose it

the warrior who goes into battle wanting to win shall surely survive

The context here is go in playing to play the best, not playing to win

Eleshakai1 votes

{quoted}

But winning is fun in all games. Who plays a game to not try and not care to win? yeah im sure theres few, but mostly everyone plays and would much rather play to win after there efforts, then to lose. Not caring who wins or loses doesn't directly help you win more because you have a better attitude. Not caring who wins means you don't try as hard, or don't try to help your team as hard, which leads to losses.

Playing 'to win' is a lot like wanting 'to be famous'. You have your goals mixed up. I don't play to win, I play to become better at the game. Winning is the biproduct of me succeeding at that goal long-term. Just like most celebrities wanted to excel at their field, and fame just happened to be the result of that. If you play to win, you're just going to get frustrated when things go wrong.

Raptamei2 votes

{quoted}

Where is the precedent? Have there ever been any game 100% like League of Legends where you managed to get the data to find out that, indeed, in a 5v5 or 3v3 MOBA where there is such a harsh penalty for leaving, that if you implement such a function, people will immediately abuse the hell out of it?

There's Dota 2, which does allow you to leave a lopsided match (even if you're on the other team) and there is very little abuse.

It helps that you get sent to low priority queue (another feature Riot doesn't want to add) after two reports, and to balance this out, you only get a small handful of reports per week which effectively discourages reporting people for the lulz.

The only problem with the way Dota 2 handles leavers is that low priority queue isn't enough of a punishment because it doesn't last long enough. Extend the duration and it would be strictly superior to the League way.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Actually I explicitly remember asking the question and Lyte responding with this "people will abuse it" a little before DotA2 was even a thing. Or atleast became part of the collective consciousness anyways

Mindspeaker2 votes

I can't agree to you .

I have seen games where is only 1 person who wants to quit after a 4v5 ....why should the other 3 have to quit becase one person doesn't understand its just a video game and the outcome of it is just one small part of it.

I seen people want to leave games at even the first hint they are not going to win . I even seem people what to quit becase they don't like the champions on the team. T That is why i have always petitioned riot to remove surrender completely.

Personally I think your the one making a mountain out of a mole hill as much as the ones that rage about team comp and such. Its a video game . Yes afks are extremely annoying I will give you that Really even in ranked if you let it get to you your taking this game way to seriously especially if your playing solo que.

Just play the game out if you win you win if you don't its really not a big deal. Again even in ranked there is more to his game than just its conclusion

( if you have to actually ask what ten you wouldn't understand and should just stay out of solo que if it bothers you that much )

It doesn't matter if your 4v5 or being steam rolled ** its not over till the nexus falls. **

Sometimes you can even pull a win out of the jaws of defeat .

5G8Nri0B541 votes

"It's just a game" "It's not a big deal"

I'm sorry, but some of us only have so much freedom and would prefer it if the game we play wasn't ruined by leavers and it's apologists. Some people would rather not have to waste their time in a game they more than likely will find themself losing. This is a game that takes a minimum of 20 minutes to even get out of.

And your bit about seeing people wanting to quit even at champion select or the first minute is completely irrelevant.

Mindspeaker1 votes

{quoted}

"It's just a game" "It's not a big deal"

I'm sorry, but some of us only have so much freedom and would prefer it if the game we play wasn't ruined by leavers and it's apologists. Some people would rather not have to waste their time in a game they more than likely will find themself losing. This is a game that takes a minimum of 20 minutes to even get out of.

And your bit about seeing people wanting to quit even at champion select or the first minute is completely irrelevant.

then my original suggestion applies .. stay out of solo que and form your own team . Solo que is random ... and as such will always give a random result . That is just one of the constants you will have to accept.

My other comments were relevant as i was giving additional reasons on why i have asked Riot to remove any type of surrender from all modes which is basically what you are asking for if you want a way to quit 4v5

Leafie2 votes

It will take work to implement. Riot is afraid of doing work.

InsaneSamurai1 votes

Agreed 100%. I really wish they'd stop relying on random psychology theories to design their punishment systems. Especially when those theories have a Disney-cartoon-level of faith in humanity :P

ƒæµ1 votes

Stop begging riot for the ability to leave or have a loss prevented when you get an AFK. It is childish and unreasonable to expect that. All we can do is get them banned. Dont forget you have 4 players on your team and 5 on the enemy team it is MORE likely that the enemy gets an afk than you.

5G8Nri0B542 votes

Dont forget you have 4 players on your team and 5 on the enemy team it is MORE likely that the enemy gets an afk than you.

Oh yes because that was TOTALLY the point I was going for huh?

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