Updates on Sandbox Mode, Dynamic Queue, and more

ModWuks·Apr 14, 2016·39 votes·2,650 views

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/riot-games/announcements/riot-pls-dynamic-queue-sandbox-and-league-2016

Sandbox Mode:

The internal team that would develop this feature is focused on a different project for the foreseeable future, so while we’re saying we want to do it and, one day, we will, that’s the extent of this commitment.

Dynamic Queue:

But, we know a lot of things that can be solved with iterative improvements, and our current top three priorities are improving the solo player experience against premades, lowering queue times, and smoothing out role selection weight. In an ideal (and optimistic) world, getting these numbers right would make a second queue unnecessary, but it’s not something we’re dismissing as of yet. Right now we're prioritizing the stability and health of a single queue - two would split the ranked player base and have a significant impact on wait times - and this is not a decision we’re taking lightly.

55 Comments

Bronze II Yasuo Apr 15, 201613 votes

So solo queue is dead?

Osaka 778Apr 15, 201613 votes

Pretty much. Forcing dynamic queue down your throat!

Sniper 0Apr 15, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Osaka 778,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=lWglglBj,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-04-15T00:21:48.435+0000)

Pretty much. Forcing dynamic queue down your throat!

At least they're adding a sandbox mode. :3 EXCITING TIMES!!!

ModWuksApr 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

At least they're adding a sandbox mode. :3 EXCITING TIMES!!!

Should the resources be made available to them, then yes, they'll look to pursue a Sandbox Mode. There are other priorities at the moment though!

Osaka 778Apr 15, 20167 votes

When is that? Oh right. Not even an estimate. Years away from Dota 2.

ElikainApr 15, 20168 votes

May i remind you that the previous estimate they made was met with severe paranoia and distrust? People have called them liars and backstabbers, have literally been threatening to throw themselves off bridges, stop breathing or myriad or other empty threats, just for the wow factor.

This is their response to their radio silence. They have sent a message to the community that they are aware of the issues and that they are investigating possible solutions.

They can't give an estimate if they are still investigating. They have to be certain that they have options and the directions. Then they can start doing the work and then estimate the volume of work. Don't ask for inaccurate information that's going to trigger you if it turns out not to be accurate.

And i'm also fed up with DotA 2 threats. If you think that game is better than League in every way (and more consistent with updates), you are free to make a switch. No one is forcing you play Dynamic Queue. I don't understand why would someone intentionally cut themselves with a knife and then blame the company who made the knife. You know how to use it and you know how to avoid getting cut. The ball is entirely in your court.

Osaka 778Apr 15, 20166 votes

Dota 2 wasn't a threat. I was merely referring that Dota 2 has a better client overall, years away. I don't even like Dota 2. But yes, I'm not playing LoL anymore. I'm considering CS:GO. The thing is that I'm being forced into dynamic queue when I had the option to play in solo queue. Two things are deal breakers for me... censorship and when developers strip options away and force you to play one kind of style.

Also, have you read posts like this one? http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9NQWAYsc-your-daily-reminder-that-riot-is-lying-to-you-repeatedly-and-solo-queue-will-never-return

They have pretty much lied. They did have an estimate. But keep wearing the pink glasses.

I didn't understand your knife analogy. Care to explain?

ElikainApr 15, 20161 votes

Riot already has a new client in store for us, it's in Alpha. Always making the same argument, like: "that other game has had this feature for years" is irrelevant. All you need to do is point out that a certain feature from another game would be a good addition to League and not you setting the deadlines when these features should be implemented in the future. That's not your job, that's Riot's job.

League runs on the spaghetti code foundation that has a lot of limitations and refuses to cooperate with new technology. The first and utmost priority is to fix this and then build new and improved features on top of it. You're not building a house from the roof to the bottom, you're building it from the ground up.

Your point about censorship is also irrelevant because it's relative. I don't know what kind of censorship you're talking about and perhaps you'll elaborate. But if you're from Turkey, i'd bet you'd be wishing you lived in another country because League has been banned on account of Grave's cigar. That's it. Your standpoint is "i hate Riot because of this" and someone else's standpoint is "i hate my county's laws". Two completely opposite opinions and if it literally comes to making a small modification to a splash art and opening League globally, then Riot said that it's a goal worth pursuing.

League is not just your property, everyone has the right to play League.

And don't use past posts to base an argument around that, even more so when this post has the most recent news about Riot being on top of the issues that plague Dynamic Queue.

Just to make things clear, you won't be getting SQ back. The thing is, you don't want physicality of SQ, you want the experience SQ had to offer. DQ is both SQ and Team Ranked. Right now, it's not properly tuned and that's why you feel this way.

If Riot does its job, and i don't doubt their competence considering i've been with them for 7 years, DQ will offer an even better experience for everyone.

Osaka 778Apr 15, 20162 votes

Lol. Your only valid point is about the client. Right, censorship is irrelevant, I was only mentioning it.

I never said I hated Riot. What I'm "hating" is how they are approaching and handling this situation with the community. It's funny how you dismiss evidence from Riot itself. What a troll.

It's really sad how much you defend Riot. What's wrong with having solo queue and dynamic queue?

"I don't want SQ"? Right. What I don't REALLY want is play LoL, not only because dynamic queue but also of how Riot handled this situation.

ElikainApr 15, 20161 votes

It's funny how you dismiss evidence from Riot itself. What a troll.

That Riot's evidence you're talking about is them admitting that they've handled the situation revolving around DQ poorly and NOT them admitting they have purposely withheld the full information from us and that letting us gradually come to a full realization, they hoped to lessen the backlash from the community. That's basically a jaded theory concocted by jaded players because this statement could be thought of as a form of an apology, and as such (if you have to apologize), means you've done something wrong - aka "we were right all along" attitude.

It's really sad how much you defend Riot.

Considering that i've played this game for 7 years without any triggers, i'd say they earned my respect. And even if they make a mistake, i'm not one of the people who'll lynch them for it. They have already said that they are working on fixing the said issues and there's nothing more to do but wait.

There have always been (and there will always be) changes that i won't consider appropriate and i won't like, but that's the part of League that you can't eliminate. You can't please the entire community at once. And i'm not going to pretend that my opinion to the general state of balance should carry more weight because i was a League player from the beginning. The game should appeal to everyone and that means finding the middle ground.

What's wrong with having solo queue and dynamic queue?

For starters, solo queue has it's own problems and splitting the community in 2 queues increases the wait time, which were the pain points before Dynamic Queue and that's why you don't get to use this in an argument against it.

I don't want SQ"?

I'll repeat myself again. ##You don't want the physicality of SQ (you don't care about the package), you care about the experience SQ has to offer (you care about the contents). DQ offers both the contents from Team Ranked and SoloQ, in a single package. Right now, there are problems that aren't benefiting solo players because the algorithm that handles team compositions isn't correctly tuned. Meaning it doesn't need replacing, it can be adjusted. This is a fairly complicated issue in itself and i'm not pretending like i know anything about it. I'm merely reciting "the evidence" Riot has provided. And if you're asking why i believe them - they haven't given me a reason not to.

On the other hand, if this isn't the only instance you've felt like this and it's a norm, i'm amazed that you still play League of Legends. That isn't determination, it's self harm.

Osaka 778Apr 15, 20163 votes

"letting us gradually come to a full realization" - Are you kidding me? That blew my mind away. I don't even know what to say... You would rather let Riot lie to your face? so they can... lessen the backlash? Unbelievable. So blind.

On the contrary, they are stubborn enough to not admit mistakes. Not an apology, admit your mistake. Apologies should come when because of negligence user data was stolen.

I have never opposed any change in LoL. The problem is when you take an option that was widely used and liked (I didn't know how much I liked solo q until I played dynamic queue), and replace it with something else, force you to use it and also lie to your player base.

I just thought about it... they could have released dynamic queue into normals, solo queue into ranked. But they never planned to implement solo queue. If you don't want DQ and SQ to compete, there are other options. DQ is a lot harder to balance and implement than SQ.

Stop telling me what I want and what I don't want. I perfectly know what I want, and act accordingly. I'm voicing my complaints.

Once the passion goes away (because the reason I am doing this is because of the passion I used to have, and would like to continue to have), I will stop caring about dynamic queue and the game itself. For now, I'm pretty interested into LCS, but I wonder if Riot can screw that up as well.

For the record, I have stopped playing LoL. Unlike you, I have tried dynamic queue myself and I can assure you, I have had a worse experience overall than in season 5, which was when I got into ranking actively. But please, keep telling me how much I want dynamic queue.... ffs.

ElikainApr 15, 20161 votes

"letting us gradually come to a full realization" - Are you kidding me? That blew my mind away. I don't even know what to say... You would rather let Riot lie to your face? so they can... lessen the backlash? Unbelievable. So blind.

I said that jaded players made this up. All Riot did was admitting that the situation around Dynamic Queue was handled poorly. I never said it was an apology, i said that the same player have taken this as an apology and that they used it as a weapon against them.

DQ is harder to balance and implement

And how would you know this? Were you involved in this project? Whenever "Riot doesn't know shit but we players do" comes up, i expect someone to blow my mind with details and facts regarding specifics of the system that is faulty. But no. All you ever do is complain and blow your own horns with "rito is shito" comments, not an ounce of reason can be found there.

I don't know why you expect an official response with this attitude. Perhaps this is your chance to evolve. But we all know it's easier to circlejerk than being constructive, when it comes these topics.

Osaka 778Apr 15, 20162 votes

"Riot doesn't know shit but we players do" - I'm not saying dynamic queue is a failure. Once again, my complain is... The feature I liked and used, it is no longer there because Riot removed the feature because I enjoy dynamic queue more (news flash... I don't).

I don't have any "details" because I actually experienced dynamic queue, and it is a fact: it is not something (for me) enjoyable as a solo q person.

I'm pretty sure I have raised valid points, and other posters have raised even better valid points. You are just disregarding them because... Riot is almighty. Riot is always right.

I think we all can assume Riot is capable enough to be a big boy and ignore the trolls and take the constructive posts there are (because there are), as well with complains from couches (Dignitas) and pro players (Forg1ven, Scarra, Froggen, etc.)

You are also stubborn to admit that, the player base has valid complaints against Riot's way to handle the situation, dynamic queue and the removal of solo q.

It's pretty obvious when you have a simple feature (solo q), and you add extra logic to that feature, it will be harder to balance and implement.

Maybe if you used your brain to think why DQ is harder to balance and implement than SQ. What a way to degrade the conversation, pat yourself. Throwing stuff I have never said or complained.

Here Comes SixApr 15, 20168 votes

Oh yeah. Looking at "possibilities"... like they were doing the same shit months ago.

I understand it takes time. But by the time they fix anything the season will be over. Season 6 is pretty shit so far.

ElikainApr 15, 20162 votes

According to you. I didn't like Season 3 but i still managed to survive it. Doesn't make a difference.

The minimum effort you need to put into this game is to reach Gold + and earn the boarder and a EoS skin - if that's your thing. It doesn't take much work and since you can't decay out of it, it's not a maintentance job either. After that, you can take a break until things get more favorable for you or you can play Normals or any other mode, to earn chests and keys - again, if that's your thing.

We've already heard the facts and complaints about the queue and Riot said they are on top of the issue. There's no point in continuing to perpetually support the circlejerking posts that are here to dump their complaints, on the issue that everyone already knows exists.

It sounds like that with this attitude, you're forcing Riot to fix it faster. And you and everyone else already knows the outcome of "quality vs quantity" argument. You don't want quantity, you want quality. So, let them do their jobs in peace.

Hello I am BirdApr 15, 20161 votes

You just said you didn't like S3

Now everyone is going to downvote you lol.

ElikainApr 15, 20163 votes

I don't really care if i get downvoted based on my preference of seasons. The point is not to make an argument around preferences but facts.

RamboDash15Apr 15, 20163 votes

"Soon" -Riot Games

A Miss FortuneApr 15, 20163 votes

It's not a sandbox mode, It's a "training mode". It's better than having nothing, but it definitely isn't what the community wanted.

MrBuffingtonApr 15, 20161 votes

Idk about you, but that is exactly what I wanted, as well as the entire professional community.

TurquoiseYoshiApr 15, 20162 votes

I'm just hoping there's at least a way to give yourself items/gold without having to wait for 10 hours/farm alone for a long time. Because otherwise, it's a glorified custom mode.

MrBuffingtonApr 15, 20162 votes

Not even glorified, it'd just be customs, lol

ModWuksApr 15, 20166 votes

{quoted}

So solo queue is dead?

Likely until the end of the season; then they'll probably give us a direction update on Solo Queue and Ranked Team 5v5's.

*keyword probably

ElikainApr 15, 201613 votes

Riot is on top of the problem, when it comes to fixing the Dynamic Queue problems. So, the threads about "we want SQ back" can stop now. It's fair of them to try to fix it first, as DQ is made with flexibility in mind.

And as for the reason why Riot didn't want to discuss this anywhere is because people have already made up their minds. We have decided that the only solution to this problem was a revert - removal of Dynamic Queue and the return of Solo Queue, that also has problems. We didn't want to listen to reason, we didn't want their explanation, we wanted them to comply with our demands. There was no point in them even answering as you can't use a bucket of water to put down a wildfire. I am one of the few understood the radio silence, who didn't jump on the hate bandwagon, who knew that Riot isn't ignoring us. And i hope that this post appeases the angry mob just by a little, giving them information that Riot is definitely on the case.

I don't think SQ will make a debut because i believe in Riot's competency to fix this problem. If they fix it, there won't be a need for both.

Cheese PopeApr 15, 20164 votes

finally somebody understands

Jet SettApr 15, 20161 votes

As long as I get the solo ranked experience i've wanted since I started to gain confidence in myself I'm happy, no matter what queue it is.

ElikainApr 15, 20161 votes

That's a fair argument to make. It was never about the type of queue we had available, it was about a queue that is a culmination of low queue times, getting our desired roles and getting fair matches. Playing with friends and solo should be an option as well. Dynamic Queue offers all of these things but as players already pointed it out, it's not exactly fair in certain aspects and Riot is addressing these problems.

Jet SettApr 15, 20161 votes

Couldn't agree more. I also support the decision to create Dynamic Queue and likely replace Solo Queue with it, as I believe progress and change are necessary for MOBAs since they don't tend to make sequels, but rather improve/change what's been created. It prevents the game from being too stale and can attract more players. I know this isn't a popular opinion, but if Dynamic Queue is fixed and tuned properly Riot won't need to reinstate Solo Queue, not to mention it's too late to just forgo the resources spent on making Dynamic a success to bring Solo Queue back.

The only mistake I feel was made is Riot stating they would be releasing Solo after a month. It should have been apparent then that they wouldn't be able to have two queues like them out together, I can understand not wanting major community backlash, but communication to the people that make these changes possible (even if it's just a small portion on the LoL boards and Reddit) because I'm sure many people who've supported Riot's past decision's would support this as well, or at least appreciate the transparency.

RoodToobApr 14, 20165 votes

Thanks Wuks [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ModAttysu The PoroApr 15, 20164 votes

I'm the minority of people who don't mind DQ. But that's cause I don't really play ranked. To be fair when I DO, I never have problems being solo...

ModWulf HelhammerApr 14, 20163 votes

Thank you, my good monkey man! http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/b/bc/Wukong_Poro_Icon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160206142129

Photos of GhostsApr 15, 20161 votes

Ok, this is now my headcanon for Wuks's appearance.

FovereApr 15, 20163 votes

@Elikain -

There is no "fix" for dynamic queue because it fundamentally goes against the philosophy of competitive players (and anyone looking for just a relatively stable, focused game).

Dynamic queue will never give us a reliable individual ranking/elo system, or the ability to avoid playing with or against premade groups. Their own post says as much

TufioApr 15, 20163 votes

again lies for damage control

ModWuksApr 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

again lies for damage control

They actually haven't committed to much, so I doubt that they're lying/misleading/etc. They're just showing you some general direction updates on a few topics.

TufioApr 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

They actually haven't committed to much, so I doubt that they're lying/misleading/etc. They're just showing you some general direction updates on a few topics.

Dynamic queue is not a competitive system, is a glorified normal and that can't be fixed. (premades and massive range of mmr make any rating pointless) They know this very well.

All riot want is to push groups since premade player > solo player for $$$

That's all.

Ranking, esport, vision are all lies.

FearEngineerApr 16, 20161 votes

What would you consider to be a statement of commitment then?

I interpreted being told solo queue would be released a few weeks later as such...

If you say "Don't worry solo queue is coming! We are working on it! ...or not" That is misleading.

If you go on to say "We're uh, considering it now."

That's a lie at worst, a half-truth at best.

Photos of GhostsApr 15, 20162 votes

ty based wuks

ModWuksApr 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=lWglglBj,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-04-15T08:38:06.397+0000)

ty based wuks

I've always seen you as someone who could very well be a European volunteer. :o Have you talked to any of them?

Photos of GhostsApr 15, 20161 votes

AWWWW A SENPAI NOTIQ'D ME -faints- no thanks, I'm too sour. I can't guarantee to always be respectful. Depression gives weird mood bounces. Also, I have pretty unusual and extreme ideologies - nothing racist/discriminatory etc. but y'know many people have this idea about me because my opinions contain an idea of morality and duty so they like completely close the door to my arguments and expect me to be their enemy on every point. So yea, I should definitely not be one of Riot's representatives, too many enemies and not enough political correctness. And finally, I lack concision. My wording is confusing. Only writers are allowed to be confusing in Ritoland :^)

ModWuksApr 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=lWglglBj,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-04-15T09:44:48.756+0000)

AWWWW A SENPAI NOTIQ'D ME -faints- no thanks, I'm too sour. I can't guarantee to always be respectful. Depression gives weird mood bounces. Also, I have pretty unusual and extreme ideologies - nothing racist/discriminatory etc. but y'know many people have this idea about me because my opinions contain an idea of morality and duty so they like completely close the door to my arguments and expect me to be their enemy on every point. So yea, I should definitely not be one of Riot's representatives, too many enemies and not enough political correctness. And finally, I lack concision. My wording is confusing. Only writers are allowed to be confusing in Ritoland :^)

Oh man, I'm sorry to hear about your depression. If you ever need or want to talk about anything, I'm pretty much always reachable on Discord: http://rito.pl/z/discord I'm good to talk to, I swear ;)

And foshizzles. I've only noticed you being positive and helpful, but if you think you still have a bunch to learn, good on you. Cheers, and I'll see ya around!

Photos of GhostsApr 15, 20161 votes

Naaah, 'ts just a physical matter (being cold, sleepy, weak, disturbed sleep cycle, miriads of tiny aches), I never really feel sad - except these last days given I just started my medical treatment and I starts with a worsening period. I usually just get very very VERY angry at the world and dream of gutting things and peeps c:

So yea I'm not the right person

Depression's mainly a problem because it's preventing me from doing anything with my life, I feel so weak and I don't want to do anything. But I'm going to get more psy assistance once I get past bureaucracy :D I'll be back stronger than ever and suc(k)cessful ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ

ModWuksApr 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=lWglglBj,comment-id=00090000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-15T10:02:51.711+0000)

Naaah, 'ts just a physical matter (being cold, sleepy, weak, disturbed sleep cycle, miriads of tiny aches), I never really feel sad - except these last days given I just started my medical treatment and I starts with a worsening period. I usually just get very very VERY angry at the world and dream of gutting things and peeps c:

So yea I'm not the right person

Depression's mainly a problem because it's preventing me from doing anything with my life, I feel so weak and I don't want to do anything. But I'm going to get more psy assistance once I get past bureaucracy :D I'll be back stronger than ever and suc(k)cessful ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ

I'll be rootin' for ya and sending positive vibes your way! :D

Photos of GhostsApr 15, 20161 votes

Oh also noice short link you got there xD

ModWuksApr 15, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Photos of Ghosts,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=lWglglBj,comment-id=00090000000000000001,timestamp=2016-04-15T10:30:08.928+0000)

Oh also noice short link you got there xD

Heh, I try xD

TheRealBazApr 15, 20162 votes

well would you wuks at that, sandbox is confirmed

DengedenApr 15, 20161 votes

Do they really think League will last? Seems to me mobile phones are taking over as our medium for leisurely connection to the internet.

ModWuksApr 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Do they really think League will last? Seems to me mobile phones are taking over as our medium for leisurely connection to the internet.

Apples to oranges, in my opinion. There are some experiences that you can't replicate with an iPhone, although each platform does have its advantages. League of Legends strives to be a player-focused, long-standing game that lasts through the generations by keeping things fresh, engaging, and progressive. Although some, albeit many, players believe the contrary to many of those points, my experiences with Riot as a company as well as the people behind the game allow me a more optimistic view of the direction of the company as well as League of Legends as a game and an experience.