How Hard Is It To Follow the Meta?

Roll in Grass··3 votes·903 views

I see these select few people complaining about people complaining about them not playing the meta. There are 122 champions in this game. That means if you are going to break the meta, think about where you're going and what you're going to build, then think about what champion in the meta can actually do that role and follow that build.

For example, if you're going to toplane AP Blitz: Blitzcrank has a silence, a knockup, and a pull. He's tanky, but he has high AP Ratios. So far, this matches Cho'gath perfectly. Cho'gath may not be in the competitive meta, but he's a toplaner, and that's meta enough. Cho'gath has a silence and a knockup, he's tanky, and has high AP Ratios. So go AP Cho'gath instead of AP Blitzcrank.

Are you about to Thresh jungle? Thresh has a hook, two slows, a shield, and lots of tankyness. Nautilus has a hook, a slow, a snare, a knockup, a shield, lots of damage, and lots of tankyness. Looks like Nautilus fits this better than Thresh, so you should play Nautilus.

Seriously, it's not hard to follow the meta, and you can still have fun while following the meta. Even Riot is enforcing the meta. They made jungle items only purchasable on people with smite, they nerfed Alistar's AP Ratios and buffed his tankyess a tad so he'd stop being a midlaner/jungler and back to a support, they nerfed Annie from being a support back to being a midlaner, Riot clearly wants us to follow the meta. That Dark Horse Brand thread? That's Riot recognizing a new possibly viable support, not enforcing new meta. So seriously, just follow the meta, it's not hard.

14 Comments

FFirebrandd4 votes

I am having trouble marshalling my thoughts for this... anyway...

League of Legends is a Game, and games are supposed to be fun.

Say there's a player who plays a lot of support, and he enjoys Blitzcrank's play style immensely. This player has also played Cho'gath once or twice and absolutely hated it for whatever reason. Now he queues up and someone else wants to support and our player ends up with top. By your logic this player should pick Cho'gath anyway just because Cho is a meta pick for top and Blitz isn't... even though doing so will probably frustrate said player and he won't play nearly as well.

Alternatively, there are some champs that are not in the meta AT ALL. By your logic no one should play them ever, even if someone absolutely loves their kit/personality/lore.

Also there is one champion that I know of that her meta build, in my opinion, doesn't fit with her kit. I seriously do not understand why you would buy Crit on Sivir instead of AD and CDR. Should I not be able to do that despite having some truly epic games with that build?

Basically what I'm getting at is this... if someone picks an off meta champion they probably have a good reason and you should not flame them for doing so.

disclaimer: there is a big difference between breaking the meta and trolling, and people who are breaking the meta ARE still trying to win.

Roll in Grass2 votes

As Frauja said:

This is a competitive game. The point is to win. If you think losing with a "fun" build is more fun than winning, then you do not belong in a competitive team game with 4 other people who do want to win. Remember, the only one having fun with your character is you.

FFirebrandd2 votes

ok... what about people who have zero experience with the "Meta" champs for a particular role?

Like me, I have very very little experience with any champs who would be considered meta for top lane. So when I end up top, would you rather I stick to the meta and play a champ that I don't know very well at all OR pick a champ I'm familiar with but isn't meta? Here's a hint... the second is probably going to get better results.

Also when I pick something that breaks the meta, I AM trying to win and I'm fairly certain what I'm trying will work. I mean recently my play with support Kennen (not meta) has been going far better than my support Lulu (meta) play, despite me having a lot more games as Lulu.

Cozarkian4 votes

How do you propose to reconcile your examples with your argument regarding Dark Horse Brand? Maybe blitz is a new possibly viable toplaner and Tresh is a new possibly viable jungler. The only way to determine that is for people to play them in those roles in normal games and then, if successfull, to try it in ranked.

Rivini3 votes

You must not be aware that Blitzcrank was originally intended to be a bruiser, not a support. It's just the nature of his kit that made him a support after the 1-1-1-2 meta cemented itself. Anyway, solo lane Blitzcrank can work if you know what you're doing and he doesn't have to be played pure AP.

In regards to the balance changes made to mages like Annie and Zyra, they were done to lessen their overbearing dominance in lane while keeping their power as a mage intact. Same principle applies to Alistar. It's also why Lulu has been nerfed so much as well, except they didn't take the proper care to preserve her ability to support.

Brand support isn't exactly new, but why he's now being showcased is because Riot has recognized him as a viable support who doesn't provide an unhealthy gameplay experience for the enemy team. They even go over his weaknesses to express that Brand has clearly defined counter-play.

Roll in Grass1 votes

Riot said themselves they wanted to put Alistar back as a support and Annie back as a midlane. Zyra and Lulu I dunno why they nerfed. I understand they were overbearing, but Zyra was a good midlane, and I miss playing her mid, but Assassins are dominating recently. Lulu was a heavy counter to Assassins, and now they got rid of all ability to play against Assassins.

KzooCrasher3 votes

Can you link those statements by riot I for one don't remember them.

Fury and Emperor2 votes

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but for a different reason.

This is a competitive game. The point is to win. If you think losing with a "fun" build is more fun than winning, then you do not belong in a competitive team game with 4 other people who do want to win. Remember, the only one having fun with your character is you.

Jubbinaut2 votes

They made jungle items only purchasable with Smite because that's a better option than making the items actually cost what they're worth (which takes them away from junglers who are commonly gold-starved) or nerfing them into worthlessness (which makes them useless to junglers who need some kind of assistance).

They messed with Alistar to keep him out of the jungle, and make his non-support play more healthy. Not to remove him from it altogether.

They nerfed Annie's base damages to make her support play less overbearing. Not to remove her as a support entirely.

Honestly, I see no problem with meta-breaking. Doing odd-ball things is how a meta gets built. Slavishly sticking to a pre-defined set of rules for how a champion "should" be played is a recipe for failure. To my mind, one of the strongest benefits of meta-breaking is learning how to adjust your play and build to what's going on around you.

Roll in Grass1 votes

Did you not read patch notes? They said they want them back in the normal roles themselves.

Jubbinaut2 votes

... Okay. Let's look at that, then. The "thought process" context for every Annie change in the 2014 season:

Patch 4.1:

Annie’s a terrifying kid to play against in the early phases of the game – even before Tibbers joins the party– mostly due to her long duration stun at level 1. With these changes, we want to give Annie’s lane opponents some more room to breathe against her early threat, but we’ve given Tibbers more late game playtime to compensate. This should lessen a bit of Annie’s power without incinerating her overall strengths.

Patch 4.4 (emphasis mine):

We like Annie's versatility, but some of her base damage is too high for how she's currently being used. Our goal is to introduce more interesting choices in Annie's kit (particularly on that Disintegrate buff) as we looked for ways to buff her late game scaling when she builds more traditional AP items.

Aaand that's it. So where in there does it say they don't want Annie as a support? Because the implication of the bolded statement is that they don't have a specific problem with her being played as a support, but rather that her damage as a support was overbearing. Let's try the same for Alistar, yeah?

Patch 4.12 (note, this was for a buff, because Ali was underpicked and needed some love):

We really want to bring Alistar back up as a support, but our challenge has been to make sure he doesn't also take up his crown of jungling cow king from the days of old. Access to a 'mini' Malphite Unstoppable Force at level 2 (via his Headbutt + Pulverize combo), combined with guaranteed tower dives and the ability to punt people away from safety makes for a pretty oppressive gank-train from the jungle. We want to give Ali the things he needs to succeed but, like we did with Maokai, we also want to make sure he's in a healthy position to do so. There's a little concern that having 70% damage reduction at level 1 Unbreakable Will might make Alistar a little too good at tower diving (even as a support), but we'll see how these changes affect him first.

Patch 4.15 (emphasis again mine):

When we buffed Alistar back in 4.12, our big concern for competitive play was that he would be too strong in the jungle, where his terrifying level 2 ganks would obliterate all semblance of lane safety on the map. Didn't happen! He just went to terrorize top lane instead.

Jokes aside, it's not a bad thing when a champion finds a new position to play on the map, but often times we'll see their strength being used in inhibitive ways (hello Soraka, hello Lulu). We're not taking large steps against Alistar for now, but we did identify one very obnoxious aspect of his strength where he could get a free high-damage trade by Headbutting his opponent while also sneaking in a basic attack. When combined with next-attack items like Sheen, it's easy to see how uninteractive Alistar can get, especially when he puts the opponent in a position where they can't retaliate in a meaningful way. We still think Alistar's in a very strong place after his buffs, but will continue to monitor him for the future.

And I don't see anything about taking him away from top lane and forcing him to support. I do see them trying to avoid letting him back in the jungle, but from the horror stories I've heard of how toxic he was to play against when he was, I don't imagine that's a bad thing.

The closest thing said about "putting them back in their roles" was the phrase, "We really want to bring Alistar back up as a support," but in context it's more of a commentary on how he was underpicked as a support - and at the time, wasn't being picked anywhere else, either.

So, yes. I read the patch notes. Usually a couple times, to make sure I understand the goals before I even look at the changes themselves.

Leblancs Boob1 votes

I'm not saying that you should play AP blitz top over someone like Cho'Gath but EVERY champion is different and there will always be a reason to play one champion over another. AP blitz top may not be as "viable" as cho'gath top but certainly can be valued for the few strengths he has that cho'gath doesn't. That being said i believe people should play what they enjoy because at the end of the day it is just a game.

DrCyanide1 votes

As an AP Ezreal main, I'd say you don't understand off meta builds at all.

Take AP Ezreal for example. He is a mage with extreme mobility, ranged poke, very high damage. He handles like a cross between Ziggs and LeBlanc, able to poke fun safety in a team fight and burst squishy champions in a single combo. I've played several AP mids, and I have yet to come across another champion with the combination he has.

I've played AP Blitz in ARAM, and from what I've seen of Cho'gath, the two are nothing alike. You need to try playing it before you make an unfounded comparison like that.

Renaille1 votes

He's tanky, but he has high AP Ratios.

Blitz has 200% Ap scaling. that isn't very high considering Leona has 190% and lower cooldowns on her rotation.

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