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Champ Theme vs. Champ Kit

DorkunedAuras··3 votes·611 views

So, When riot releases a champion, they want their background/personality to mesh well with their kit and playstyle (at least their primary playstyle).

A good example of this is JarvanIV. He's a King (prince whatever) who's supposed to lead his troops into battle. So what does he do in game? He Dashes in, alters the playing field to his whims, and gives his team an AoE buff while controlling the enemy. This works extremely well with his theme, so he feels very grounded and logical.

Contrast this with someone like Chogath. He seems like, and is intended to be, this huge void monster thing that tanks you while wailing on you with spiky things until he just eats you. But what does he do in game? QWR dead. Now before your write this off as a QQ thread for cho, I don't care about how balanced or unbalanced he may be, I'm just saying that this makes no sense with his theme. Some huge void brick wall should not be outputting loads of damage at once. He's supposed to be this thing that walks up to you, CCs you, attacks you with spike things, and then finishes you with a NOM NOM NOM.

Now, Riot's done a pretty good job in the past with some of these. Some great examples of this cohesion is Rammus (theme of not giving a fuck, tanky enough to not give a fuck), Darius (I'm walking towards you with my giant axe, if you get closer, I will cut you to shreds, and cut you like a fucking guillotine), and Vi (goes in and locks down the target, just like a good cop, and beats them up a lot, just like a rough and tumble cop).

I'm just saying credit where credit's due, some of these champs are very well made in this regard. I will point out some that don't quite line up though: Swain (I'm a powerful strategic general commanding troops well, which is why I mash my basic abilities, ult, and just stand in the middle of the enemy team and hope they die to me),

Riven (Supposed to be bruisery, but with animation cancelling, DPS gets ginormous, to assassin levels, like she wasn't intended to be, but kinda needed that glitch to make her competitive with other champs),

Leblanc (Can work on the deceptiony level, but has too much burst to necessitate it. I'd personally make her more dependent on juking and outsmarting, rather than walk forwards QREW dead)

Gangplank (this is getting improved, but he's supposed to be a pirate running in, rallying troops, and firing his cannons on enemies. Instead, he stands far away, and mashes his Q button to try and one shot carries. Oranges are K though)

Aatrox (supposed to be legendary warrior, rallying others to fight with many times their strength to overcome huge odds. Has no buffs for party, and little CC to really be a team guy)

Evelynn (supposed to be THE stealth assassin, but that can't be healthy, so she's kinda thrown in limbo right now as everyone figures out how to make her work)

Ekko (supposed to be a utility AP bruiser type, but ends up with way too much burst to even need the utility, or anything tankish, or sanity. Him building as an AP fighter is how he's intended, and he jumps in ish with QE, then gets out with the speed to wait out CDs and then re-engage, kinda like what akali does with her smokescreen, where she Q-R-E-AA-W wait for QER to get back up, then go in again to kill the target with your second rotation)

Poppy (I can't describe what's fully wrong with her, as we dont' have a functional kit for her that's not completely broken (ok, this is QQ, but everyone knows she's OP) but she's supposed to use "hammer diplomacy" meaning go in, wack things, and tank their "diplomats", instead doing R to ignore enemies EQ dead)

Teemo (supposed to be nimble and evasive, using W and R to kite his opponents while whittling down their HP with on hit poisons, except because he has a blind, he just stands there while you're helpless to attack him because he shot a dart into your leg)

Are there any others I missed? Are there any that you think I'm wrong about? Let's get some discussion going guys, I love this kinda stuff.

Also, before i get reported for wrong board, this is about gameplay and how it connects with other things.

11 Comments

Kãtãrinã2 votes

Katarina Her kit matches perfectly with who she is. A Ruthless assassin who does whatever is necessary to destroy her target. (Section from her lore supporting this) Returning to the camp, she spied her now heavily guarded target and realized a stealthy kill was no longer possible. Drawing her blades, Katarina swore the officer would die, no matter the cost. She leapt into battle, unleashing a whirlwind of steel. One by one blades flashed and guards fell, each strike bringing her one step closer to the officer. A final thrown dagger restored her honor. Bloody and bruised, Katarina barely escaped the Demacian forces, and returned to Noxus a changed woman. The scar she earned that night now serves as a constant reminder that she must never let passion interfere with duty.

"Never question my loyalty. You will never know what I endure for it." ― Katarina

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

i agree on the "champs should play according to their personality/lore" but honestly, 90% of all champs dont. also, whats even more important is that champs have a somewhat unique play pattern. my favorite designed champion in league is fiddlesticks by far because he isnt intended to be anything but can be so much, and he is unique from any other champion in the game. i dont even know his lore of if he plays according to that, but hes just genius.

the problem with almost all "New" champions that have been released during the past 2 years is that they are very overloaded, hard to balance and zero fun to play against. they all have alot of jumpyness or cc and none of them is a straight up strong and cool champion, they are only strong through abuse.

dunno im just very disappointed with general champ design nowadays.

GreenLore1 votes

Swain he is also a bird mage(yeah kinda weird,but nothing to change here) and his tactical abilities shine through the fact that his abilities synergize extremely well(Q helps you to land your W,W helps you to maximize the damage of your Q,E strenghtens all your other spells).Keep in mind that he is the grand general of Noxus and noxus values strenght above all,so it makes sense that Swain doesn't have to rely on his troops(like Azir) and that he is able to go all in and kill the enemy.

Riven was made to be played similar to the characters in a fighting game.Also while she can be played rather assassin like,its not like she is that she dies that easily.

Leblanc I guess this is thanks to the fact that she is a rather old champ,they didn't experiment that much with abilities at that time.But like you say,while her abilities aren't that fitting for her,its not like they are completely out of place either.

Gangplank like you say this is getting improved,the rework gives him more reason to run into a fight(since the passive doesn't trigger on his ranged attack)

Aatrox It was said that a buff ability would have been simply out of place on aatroxs kit.I guess he himself is designed to show how people he inspires are able to fight.He can keep fighting even when he dies once and he gets stronger the more blood he sheds.

Evelynn is really a mess kit wise.Not helped that not even riot knows what she's even supposed to be.

Ekko Actually no,he was never intended to be a bruiser,he was always supposed to be an assassin.Him needing 2 rotations to get you down is how he is supposed to be as he is good at targeting weakened opponents and almost all of his abilities have some way to trick the opponent and require some careful planning to pull off(the only exception is his E and even that one can be used in lots of ways)

Poppy Well she IS a diplomat,so her abusing her diplomatic immunity does make kinda sense.Though she is getting a full rework anyway and like you say she is broken

Teemo He is nimble and evasive,because if his QE-combo doesn't kill you,he can still run away and lead you through a mushroom field.But him coming out of his stealth to surprise you and blind you,so that you swing your weapon at him and can't even hit him while he shoots more and more poison darts at you,is part of his character as well,since the whole "ambush"-thing is also a part of him.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

I disagree on the Swain, he's not intended to be a front line unit. Noxus, while they do focus on strength, they're flexible on their definition of "strength". Swain's strength is not supposed to be in his ability to sit in his enemy's face not dying, it's in his incredible tactical, cold, logical mind he uses to command and lead his soldiers. He's not a direct fighter, but he puts his units in the best possible positions to fight.

Your explanation of Poppy is a bit strained I'd say. Diplomatic immunity being the ability's name doesn't justify the actual usages.

Aatrox I feel that they made the kit, formed the lore around it, and didn't quite think the synergy through. Yes, his revive makes sense, as well as most of his abilities. However, he has 0 team based synergy, while he is supposed to be rallying troops into winning losing battles. Something in his kit that gives something to allies would make sense here.

Teemo ... First off, fuck this champion. Secondly, he's shouldn't have the blind. The bait into the shroom field is valid (and infuriating and stupid and...) but no "ambushy swift scout" should stand there while you helplessly wail on him and attack you. He should be a kitey champion, not a blind and attack champion.

GreenLore1 votes

Swains abilities still synergize rather well and require some strategic thinking(basically everyone can dodge his W if he's not CCd) and swain doing the work himself is also part of the noxian identity. Keep in mind that he got to this position by killing his rival in a duel(even though he most likely cheated during that duel anyway) and that he is supposed to be able to go toe to toe with Jarvan IV. And well he is also quite defined by his bird magic.He is pretty much centered around ravens and his kit focuses quite a bit on that.

Aatrox the problem is that abilities that give allies something is that they suck for solo lane champs(they can't be too powerful so that they aren't op in a teamfight,which means they are bad in solo lane).I understand that such an ability would fit him,but it simply wouldn't fit the game.

Teemo he was more or less designed to be an asshole on the field.And I dunno why he should be restricted to the whole bait thing and why he shouldn't be centered around the bait AND the ambush identity. Both fit for a scout with a blowgun. I mean if there is a character with a blowung in a story,then what type of character is that?They are the type who camouflage themselves before they ambush their enemies,quickly finishing their enemies with the powerful poison in their darts.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

Aatrox here's an idea. How about an AoE buff that increases in power per ally hit. So it's (making up numbers off top of head) +30 AD and AP, +50% per ally champ hit, so up to 90 of each. Yeah, that's strong, whatever, not the point. It's a decent number in lane, and can be strong in team fights. there you go.

GreenLore1 votes

Such an effect would need him to be nerfed in other aspects as well,causing him to become weaker with no one around.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

Again, what I'm saying is that his 1v1 would remain more or less the same, but he would be less useless in teamfights, what his lore says he creates huge clutch wins in, by giving the buff. Again, I was just making up numbers, but the concept is there. A buff that's stronger per person effected, maybe even with a cap of like double instead of 300%. He can get something for 1v1s, but can be a decent team fighters

Eleshakai1 votes

I think Nami and Karma are in a great place for this.

I wish they'd work on making the fantasy fit more for Elise and Zyra. Give them a real feel for the spiders and the plants. Not just make the spiders and plants tiny damage sources.

McAllister1 votes

Swain needs infinite help in this department. Cho is actually alright by me except for Rupture. I wish Graves' shotgun were shotgunnier. There's no scientist left in Mundo or Warwick whatsoever, I think those are a shame. Bard's theme has nothing to do with fighting, but neither do most of his abilities (hey-oh!), so I guess that's fine. Twitch is supposed to have a DoT, but it deals about 14 damage, so he really needs that tuned up to get his poison theme working.

But, imho, their more recent releases have been really good at feeling the way they're supposed to feel. Any exceptions there? I disagree with you about Ekko, and everyone else recent has been solid.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

I 100% agree with you on Cho. 3/4 of his abilities make sense for his theme, but rupture really doesn't. It's too magicky instead of like the others, where it's a thing he's shooting/shouting/eating.

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