Common Theme in 14 Day Suspensions.

TeemoJenkins·May 27, 2015·61 votes·5,450 views

Of all the people posting about their "bullshit" suspensions all of them have a major thing in common; Guilt. All of them admit they were toxic in the game, all of them think it was ok or was a "first offense", all of them expect forgiveness in spite of their admitted guilt.

Take this one and simple lesson my friends: That 14 days is a GIFT from Riot allowing you time to think about how you want to interact with people. Reform and you're in a good place. It's that simple.

88 Comments

CIit YeastwoodMay 27, 201518 votes

Except you most likely haven't seen most of the chat logs.

In just my last game I got reported for "verbal abuse" because a terrible bot lane lost tower in 5 minutes. I, as the jungler, decided I wasn't strong enough to contest dragon against a Nunu, so I went onto the 200 HP support, got a kill and backed.

Leona then decides to say "Diana, you really shouldn't have done that. You should have contested the dragon, and done x y z. But I guess you don't want to improve."

My literal response before I muted her for the rest of the game:

"You really shouldn't be giving advice to people when you can't even win lane, just please shut the hell up."

Much verbal abuse, such wow.

People are just abusing the fact that the report system is much more aggressive now and throwing reports left and right. Riot won't do anything about it, we are going to see bans all over the place over petty crap (like my example) and people are still going to kiss Riot's butt for "removing toxic players," when in reality they aren't.

I've had the "Reported for Verbal Abuse" probably 3-4 times in the last 2 DAYS. I don't even use the chat that much, and when I do, yeah sure I might come off aggressive to someone that decides to type something while they are feeding. But welcome to life.

If you worked a full time job, showed up late everyday, did you job wrong/sloppily, then had the audacity to open your mouth to a co-worker for making a mistake, I can guarantee you will get your ass chewed out or even worse. Just how people are, and you most certainly aren't going to "reform" humanity with 14 day bans/

TeemoJenkinsMay 27, 201515 votes

{quoted}

"You really shouldn't be giving advice to people when you can't even win lane, just please shut the hell up."

Much verbal abuse, such wow.

You work at a job where you can tell co-workers to shut the hell up and there's no consequences? Please tell me where you work so I can know where to NEVER work.

CIit YeastwoodMay 27, 201512 votes

I work at a job where they look at track records.

If your track record is total shite, don't open your mouth. I'm sorry that you have to play dumb and ignore more than half of what I typed to try and prove a point, just like most of the people abusing the report function. Hint hint.

SmokedAlmondsMay 27, 201518 votes

{quoted}

I work at a job where they look at track records.

If your track record is total shite, don't open your mouth. I'm sorry that you have to play dumb and ignore more than half of what I typed to try and prove a point, just like most of the people abusing the report function. Hint hint.

And now you play a game that looks at your behavior track record. Just like if it comes up sub par for your job you will probably be fired, if it comes up asshole in league you will be punished.

CIit YeastwoodMay 27, 20154 votes

Looking at a no ban track record (except for using a zoom cheat to play in 3rd person), I'd say my track record is perfectly fine.

I'd put my money on someone that goes around "Do what I say or else you just don't want to improve while I feed my lane" has had past bans.

But again, people only see what they want to see.

"Well you told him to shut the hell up! You're just an asshole!"

Okay, sure. I'd rather say NO ONE wants to be backseat gamed in League, or Dota, or anything for that matter, NOR be told "Do what I think you should do, otherwise you will never improve," while that person is feeding their lane. Come at me with that, you get a "shut up, win your lane, then try and give me advice about "improving."

And frankly, I don't see that as verbal abuse. I see that as a "You're being a jackass, just shut up before you say something that's actually report worthy."

rampaging poetMay 28, 20159 votes

While I agree "verbal abuse" is probably stretching it for that one example, you're showing you have exactly the attitude the system is designed to punish. So did that Leona FWIW. "I'm better at this than you" isn't an excuse to be uncivil.

Hyrum GraffMay 28, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=rampaging poet,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=g1Fh1fRI,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-28T01:04:48.944+0000)

While I agree "verbal abuse" is probably stretching it for that one example, you're showing you have exactly the attitude the system is designed to punish. So did that Leona FWIW. "I'm better at this than you" isn't an excuse to be uncivil.

What people are like on the forums vs in game isn't always the same.

See: Majorpain9. He and I... have some differences of attitude on the forums but he's a great person to play with, because he enjoys winning and knows badmouthing teammates is not how you win.

rampaging poetMay 28, 20151 votes

Fair enough.

Celeste BenalMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Looking at a no ban track record (except for using a zoom cheat to play in 3rd person), I'd say my track record is perfectly fine.

I'd put my money on someone that goes around "Do what I say or else you just don't want to improve while I feed my lane" has had past bans.

But again, people only see what they want to see.

"Well you told him to shut the hell up! You're just an asshole!"

Okay, sure. I'd rather say NO ONE wants to be backseat gamed in League, or Dota, or anything for that matter, NOR be told "Do what I think you should do, otherwise you will never improve," while that person is feeding their lane. Come at me with that, you get a "shut up, win your lane, then try and give me advice about "improving."

And frankly, I don't see that as verbal abuse. I see that as a "You're being a jackass, just shut up before you say something that's actually report worthy."

Quoted for posterity. "except for using a zoom cheat". If you need to cheat to win, you deserve a permaban.

Vistha KaiJun 3, 20151 votes

You don't even know what he's talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lORBkCkUriM

FrnakMay 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Looking at a no ban track record (except for using a zoom cheat to play in 3rd person), I'd say my track record is perfectly fine.

I'd put my money on someone that goes around "Do what I say or else you just don't want to improve while I feed my lane" has had past bans.

But again, people only see what they want to see.

"Well you told him to shut the hell up! You're just an asshole!"

Okay, sure. I'd rather say NO ONE wants to be backseat gamed in League, or Dota, or anything for that matter, NOR be told "Do what I think you should do, otherwise you will never improve," while that person is feeding their lane. Come at me with that, you get a "shut up, win your lane, then try and give me advice about "improving."

And frankly, I don't see that as verbal abuse. I see that as a "You're being a jackass, just shut up before you say something that's actually report worthy."

I'm sure that's the only way to respond to someone like that. I cannot fathom any other possible ways to get the message across.

I am totes agree, much convinced, such argument.

Occams RaiserMay 28, 20152 votes

This is not rare. I often work jobs where you can give some one a cuss filled ribbing. You just can't do it in front of your boss.

SleepyLionCubMay 27, 201513 votes

What about the super toxic people who never get banned?

Colgate GatorMay 27, 201517 votes

{quoted}

What about the super toxic people who never get banned?

Assuming they never get banned, and in any case I suppose that's part of the reason why they're making the system more agressive.

ArrcanosMay 27, 20154 votes

My friends made two accounts, used a bot to get to thirty, then afk'd nearly 100 ranked games without a perma ban. GG riot.

WeFlyNoLieMay 27, 201527 votes

Nope. Doubt it.

SerevasMay 27, 201510 votes

I for one would like to thank Riot for a functioning reporting system removing those players from my games, they just make things worse.

Keeblers ElfMay 27, 20154 votes

More like time for them to level up their smurf.

SexyTaylorSwiftMay 27, 20154 votes

Well, they probably wouldn't be toxic if there weren't as many trolls in the game.

AMYS GRAVEMay 28, 20153 votes

There wouldn't be so many trolls in the game if people weren't toxic...

See it doesn't work that way. Being toxic or a troll should be and now are both punishable offenses.

SexyTaylorSwiftMay 28, 20153 votes

I don't agree with this. People troll before a word is said to them. Also, trolling isn't punished.

rampaging poetMay 28, 20154 votes

Trolling is a form of being toxic. If you are trolling, you are being toxic. I don't know enough about the new system to know if it's catching all the toxic behaviour that you consider to be trolling, but I'm sure many toxic people others consider trolls are being punished.

SexyTaylorSwiftMay 28, 20154 votes

Yes, but trolling is a form that isn't punished. At least currently. You can go 0-12, running down mid lane to feed on purpose because you didn't get the lane you wanted, but won't get punished if you type in chat, "sorry guys, I'm just having a bad game".

Vistha KaiJun 3, 20151 votes

https://i.imgur.com/TUu7gRA.jpg

TMITJun 3, 20151 votes

The problem with a computerized system is that it has an algorithm for detecting "trolling" that trolls can bypass. Take for example someone who deliberately feeds, and then says "sorry guys, I'm only good with a few champions" while attack-moving to death because he didn't get the champion he wanted?

What about someone who goes dual-mid lane against his team's wishes? He could simply claim, "I called mid first so let's try this out and see what happens", even if he didn't call mid first. Many players would get upset with him for attempting to duo mid, but it isn't technically against the rules and according to the chat as a computer would read it, he is just trying new things and is being respectful and his now-angry team is in danger of verbally abusing the poor player ^_^.

SmokedAlmondsJun 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The problem with a computerized system is that it has an algorithm for detecting "trolling" that trolls can bypass. Take for example someone who deliberately feeds, and then says "sorry guys, I'm only good with a few champions" while attack-moving to death because he didn't get the champion he wanted?

What about someone who goes dual-mid lane against his team's wishes? He could simply claim, "I called mid first so let's try this out and see what happens", even if he didn't call mid first. Many players would get upset with him for attempting to duo mid, but it isn't technically against the rules and according to the chat as a computer would read it, he is just trying new things and is being respectful and his now-angry team is in danger of verbally abusing the poor player ^_^.

that's like complaining that traffic cops don't solve many murders.

Trolls and intentional feeders are not the primary target of the system.

TMITJun 3, 20151 votes

I'm not saying we should scrap it, but 1) that it's perhaps a little over-zealous in some cases and lacking in others and 2) it might not work well as the sole method of enforcement.

The EllimiistMay 27, 20153 votes

If someone was legit banned for a poor reason i'd love to see them post a screenshot of the chat log they are sent.

Doctor DymentMay 28, 20152 votes

You seem to run off the same principle as prisons do. Just let them sit and think about what they did. That'll totally fix everything.

MVDuneCatsMay 28, 20152 votes

If nothing else, it takes criminals off the streets. I'm good with that.

Doctor DymentMay 28, 20152 votes

No. No it really doesn't. It gives a temporary solution to a potentially permanent problem. These people, won't think the two week ban is a GIFT you moron. They're going to get even more riled up over it, and be just as bad if not worse then they were when they got the ban on themselves two weeks ago. This system is flawed and does not fix anything.

Celeste BenalMay 28, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=g1Fh1fRI,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2015-05-28T04:01:49.248+0000)

you moron.

Complains about toxicity and lack of effective change in the game. Calls poster moron.

Malicious FuryMay 28, 20151 votes

Speaking as someone with a Criminal Justice background, prison isn't meant to fix people's problems. It's meant as a deterrence for people who are thinking about committing crime and to keep those that did commit crime off the streets. There are programs inside jails and prisons that help inmates that choose to seek them, but they are completely optional and most opt out unless they know it'll get them out sooner than later.

Deterrence is necessary to keep most good-willed people from acting on things they wish they could get away with.

AndrogenousMay 28, 20151 votes

In THE USA, you are right. And that's why crime and recidivism is so high, because deterrance doesn't work against people that are unable to think about consequences. In countries with more reform based systems, like in Europe, recidivism rates are much lower. If you show people no mercy, then they will in turn give none.

Malicious FuryMay 28, 20152 votes

Watch Episode 8 of the first season of Star Trek TNG. The planet they go to uses capital punishment for EVERY crime, even as little as falling onto a flower pot and smashing it on accident deserves death. Their tolerance for crime actually worked. I found it fascinating.

TNG Season 1 Episode 8

Puri Puri TaricMay 28, 20151 votes

lel fantasy =/= real life bra. get real why in fact is norway and finland almost out of criminals ? cuz their system actually works they actually have to close prisons because they run out of inmates or criminals.

FrnakMay 29, 20152 votes

{quoted}

lel fantasy =/= real life bra. get real why in fact is norway and finland almost out of criminals ? cuz their system actually works they actually have to close prisons because they run out of inmates or criminals.

Go look up any research: the promise of punishment (and severity) lowers rates of crime. TNG just used the research and went to the extreme.

We only have high return rates because once you're branded a felon you literally have little to no chance to get hired / employed / do anything else. "CRIMINAL BACKGROUND CHECK".

No, the threat of punishment, especially losing your account with everything you put into it, will turn a lot of people around.

Puri Puri TaricMay 29, 20151 votes

well some dont care especially people who didnt put money into the game and also those who got better smurf accounts so meh git gud and start reporting but since the game is free its never gonna be free of trolls.

Malicious FuryMay 29, 20151 votes

{quoted}

lel fantasy =/= real life bra. get real why in fact is norway and finland almost out of criminals ? cuz their system actually works they actually have to close prisons because they run out of inmates or criminals.

eh hem. Science Fiction.

Puri Puri TaricMay 29, 20151 votes

see that ? the fiction besides the sience ? still fantasy until its proven by sience facts. fiction is fantasy based on facts but still fantasy.

NsquiMay 28, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Of all the people posting about their "bullshit" suspensions all of them have a major thing in common; Guilt. All of them admit they were toxic in the game, all of them think it was ok or was a "first offense", all of them expect forgiveness in spite of their admitted guilt.

Take this one and simple lesson my friends: That 14 days is a GIFT from Riot allowing you time to think about how you want to interact with people. Reform and you're in a good place. It's that simple.

I, personally, have received one of the aforementioned 14 day bans. Here is my gripe with the bans and with your thread - they may have been deserved, but two weeks? I had, before the two week ban, been banned only once before as a result of leaving games when I was at a very low level and did not know the effects it had on the game or my team. The two week ban was the SOLE toxicity ban I had ever received - I had never before been chat restricted, never banned for in game language or for flaming. Thus, after one heated game wherein I became fairly toxic ("Do you even know how to play Sona," "I've never seen Sona played worse") etc, I was reported and slapped with a two week ban. Yes, it was bad, and I realized as soon as the ban came my way that I had indeed been pretty toxic. HOWEVER, a two week ban is quite severe, at least in my opinion. The ban was good, and deserved - it forced me to reflect on the incident and realize that I should have handled the situation much more tactfully. But it would not have taken a two week ban. A simple twenty-four hour ban, or a two day ban, would have been MORE than enough to cause me to realize the error of my ways. I think it is especially harsh when one does not have a record of toxic behavior (a la myself.) I have already fought this battle on the old GD threads, and the ban is long gone. Seeing your thread, however, I feel as though you do not truly understand the situations some of us were in when the ban came across. Yes, we deserved it, obviously. Otherwise we would not have been banned. THAT is not the argument, at least not the one that I am trying to raise awareness of. I am simply trying to express the feeling that two weeks is a ridiculously long amount of time for someone to be banned for if it is indeed their first offense. The BAN itself, regardless of the time behind it, is enough to force a person who simply gave into a fit of rage to rethink their attitudes. However, there are the people out there that will be toxic no matter the duration of a ban - these are the people, the repeat offenders, who should be considered for two week and permabans. The majority of the players who received two week bans were no doubt in the same boat as I was, and had never been banned before the administration of the two week ban. Why should we receive that? Why not two days? Give the person time to mull over what went on in the event, give them a chance to realize, "Hey, I screwed up. I really shouldn't be like that to people, regardless of how the game is going or how they are playing." Two days is plenty of time to achieve that goal. Two weeks? Overkill.

mvargusMay 28, 20151 votes

It is severe, but I'm beginning to suspect that Riot has decided to balance deterrence/reform/prevention all together.

They have 3 goals with the ban system.

Convince most players that being toxic is a bad thing as they could be banned for a long time.
Get anyone they did have to ban to consider their actions and decide to come back behaving better
Get those who are toxic out of the game for a long time in the hopes that they can reduce the toxicity and the community will start to repair the rest.

However, I suspect there is an unwritten and unspoken aspect as well. A long (2 week) ban has a good chance of getting some of the more toxic players to quit. Yes, the ones that love the game will likely return, but the ones who are somewhat bored now have DOTA2, Heroes of the Storm, Smite and Sins of a Dark Age to try out. During a 2 week break a toxic player could go to one of those games and end up not returning to LoL. Yes, its some revenue lost, but it may be less than the revenue lost when people refuse to play due to having run into toxic players.

Just a thought.

SmokedAlmondsMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I, personally, have received one of the aforementioned 14 day bans. Here is my gripe with the bans and with your thread - they may have been deserved, but two weeks? I had, before the two week ban, been banned only once before as a result of leaving games when I was at a very low level and did not know the effects it had on the game or my team. The two week ban was the SOLE toxicity ban I had ever received - I had never before been chat restricted, never banned for in game language or for flaming. Thus, after one heated game wherein I became fairly toxic ("Do you even know how to play Sona," "I've never seen Sona played worse") etc, I was reported and slapped with a two week ban. Yes, it was bad, and I realized as soon as the ban came my way that I had indeed been pretty toxic. HOWEVER, a two week ban is quite severe, at least in my opinion. The ban was good, and deserved - it forced me to reflect on the incident and realize that I should have handled the situation much more tactfully. But it would not have taken a two week ban. A simple twenty-four hour ban, or a two day ban, would have been MORE than enough to cause me to realize the error of my ways. I think it is especially harsh when one does not have a record of toxic behavior (a la myself.) I have already fought this battle on the old GD threads, and the ban is long gone. Seeing your thread, however, I feel as though you do not truly understand the situations some of us were in when the ban came across. Yes, we deserved it, obviously. Otherwise we would not have been banned. THAT is not the argument, at least not the one that I am trying to raise awareness of. I am simply trying to express the feeling that two weeks is a ridiculously long amount of time for someone to be banned for if it is indeed their first offense. The BAN itself, regardless of the time behind it, is enough to force a person who simply gave into a fit of rage to rethink their attitudes. However, there are the people out there that will be toxic no matter the duration of a ban - these are the people, the repeat offenders, who should be considered for two week and permabans. The majority of the players who received two week bans were no doubt in the same boat as I was, and had never been banned before the administration of the two week ban. Why should we receive that? Why not two days? Give the person time to mull over what went on in the event, give them a chance to realize, "Hey, I screwed up. I really shouldn't be like that to people, regardless of how the game is going or how they are playing." Two days is plenty of time to achieve that goal. Two weeks? Overkill.

Maybe in your specific case a very short ban would have done the job, but there are millions of people who play this game. What the minimum punishment that could reform a player isn't a particularly high concern. They have to figure out what is going to work for most without being extremely overbearing on those who don't need it.

Personally I don't consider a 14 day ban to be particularly severe, at least not in league. In wow or something where being banned would have you miss out on a weekly reset that you can never get back shorter punishments may be more effective. But in league a ban just means you go do something else for the duration. Maybe you wanted to play league more than anything else but you don't lose out on anything tangible.

That said I do think shorter faster punishments are the way to go. But faster is an EXTREMELY important aspect of this and we are finally getting there. If you can catch someone right after a match like they are trying to do now then you can hit them with minor punishments because the punishment is for that single offense. Whereas now punishments are really more for large patterns of behavior. I think the delayed punishments cause a lot of confusion and even in cases like yours. Just because you were never punished before doesn't mean that your record was clean, just that you never did enough to be punished.

rinsujoMay 28, 20152 votes

My concern is that 14 days DOES seem very overbearing on players like him who are getting in trouble for a first or uncommon offense. I've certainly had off games myself, and while I generally do try very hard not to reply in kind, eventually it gets frustrating. Eventually toxic players do get under your skin. And sometimes a non-toxic player snaps. A non-toxic player snapping doesn't deserve a two-week ban for an incorrect, but justifiable action. They may deserve a one-two day ban to cool off and remember to let it go, but a two week ban in that kind of a scenario would push me towards being more toxic, since I now feel spited by riot and would start getting upset more easily. I don't know enough about the ban system personally (never punished, on any of my accounts, except that bullshit "I agree" in a match I lagged out of) but I feel like if it really was his first or an uncommon offense, that he shouldn't have received a two-week ban. If it wasn't an uncommon offense and he's not being truthful, then maybe a two week could've been justified, but we don't really have a way to be sure without knowing his history personally.

SmokedAlmondsMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

My concern is that 14 days DOES seem very overbearing on players like him who are getting in trouble for a first or uncommon offense. I've certainly had off games myself, and while I generally do try very hard not to reply in kind, eventually it gets frustrating. Eventually toxic players do get under your skin. And sometimes a non-toxic player snaps. A non-toxic player snapping doesn't deserve a two-week ban for an incorrect, but justifiable action. They may deserve a one-two day ban to cool off and remember to let it go, but a two week ban in that kind of a scenario would push me towards being more toxic, since I now feel spited by riot and would start getting upset more easily. I don't know enough about the ban system personally (never punished, on any of my accounts, except that bullshit "I agree" in a match I lagged out of) but I feel like if it really was his first or an uncommon offense, that he shouldn't have received a two-week ban. If it wasn't an uncommon offense and he's not being truthful, then maybe a two week could've been justified, but we don't really have a way to be sure without knowing his history personally.

The thing is, we as players never really get the full picture of people's punishments. Not even with report cards. Even if someone has never been punished that doesn't mean something is their first offense. Especially since historically punishments were more for patterns of behavior rather than single incidents. We don't know their history. Maybe they were perfect up until that point. Maybe their bad behavior was just barely not frequent enough to warrant a punishment.

ManyrdJun 13, 20151 votes

IRot dostn know the situation whrnen they make the bans and screw people over that are playing the game perfectly fine and let the diks that just sit around and afk all they want if they are 30s or higher it seems... So basically you can ferk you r team over to every extint but if you comment on bad behavior the whole game you get screwed or if you leve because someone is ruining the gameplay you get screwed and they dotn ... it totla bs... i manage a high end steak house and and if any of my employees let their team down it gets looked into and talked aobut.. if you continue to be a ferkin jerk your fired... not on here this site is a joke when it comes to that... much rather pay for a gmae then to play with tools who ruinit ...