Personally, I really like Gragas support. He has a lot of CC and is useful in teamfights. I like it that he has an escape and a passive that gives him health.
I'm tired of every time I want to play something out of the meta, I'm flamed constantly and always the blame. Most of all, people think I'm trolling when I'm trying to see if something works. Gragas can support. Don't flame me or troll pick because you have a stick up your ass.
Renascent10 votesI'm not sure, but I think that people accept weird picks more in higher ranked games.
I remember when I finally settled on a main, Rammus Top to be precise, and set off into ranked, people kept thinking I was trolling. Then again, TP+Revive would look pretty troll when combined with a jungler for a top laner.
Made it into Plat, accusation rates started diminishing. Revive got removed, changed it up for Flash+Ignite, climbed up a little higher, I stopped getting accused of trolling AT ALL (though sometimes people put into chat "no tp?", but that's the most they'll say).
The reason? imo, I think people in lower ranks only have experience against meta picks, and don't know how to play with or against weird picks, which is what makes them work and... not work. It works because the people you're up against in lane have no idea how to deal with your champ, but your team might also struggle to keep up with you.
My advice for you? If you play a weird champ, make sure it can carry the team. Otherwise, play a champ that your team knows how to play with, because some people have really low tolerance for what they think will ruin the game for them.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesAlso people generally say their going to troll the team if that's what they are dong as you move up in ELO (mine is lower but I noticed that on the move from bronze to gold), and I think you meet more OTP players as you move up so people trust things more. I played almost only Heimerdinger top/mid to gold on my account before getting burned out on him, and I have duo'd with someone who played Morgana most games and someone who played Rengar most games. You see people who are much stronger on one or two or three champs than they are on anyone else more often as you move up and so I think people start to trust that players are just picking a champ they like enough to have practiced and become stronger on.
DrCyanide8 votesGragas support was run by Gambit Gaming last year (to decent success if I recall correctly). Maybe your response should be "the pros do it" and let their conflicted desire to follow the meta and be like the pros tear them apart.
BattleBalladeer6 votesWhat kind of an idiot doesn't want a gragas support? Wtf? Really?
Its like Support Annie, but better:
Rolldembones6 votesDon't forget the dirty masses played nautilus support for 2 years before the pros made it meta.
I personally don't like grag support but it isn't bad. its better to play offmeta champs that you enjoy and put your all into then fotm champs that you don't know or enjoy.
Xonra4 votesDon't forget the dirty masses played nautilus support for 2 years before the pros made it meta.
I personally don't like grag support but it isn't bad. its better to play offmeta champs that you enjoy and put your all into then fotm champs that you don't know or enjoy.
The amount of rage, trash talking, threats of reports, and all that, for playing Naut (and Morg) support before it was super popular was frustrating. I was actually a bit annoyed when both got popular cause suddenly "they are OP"..."bitch you were just trash talking me two games ago, but she is OP now?"
Rustling Bush5 votesit "can" work, a lot of things "can" work but often times people want the best, what can gragas really offer that other supports can't do as well. as for ap draven, yeah hes a mad hypocrite
RIP Resonance24 votes[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-18T16:45:36.538+0000)
what can gragas really offer that other supports can't do as well.
He can peel like Janna He can poke like Lux He can stun like Leona
He's a different champion that's fun to play.
XxobscenexX1 votes[{quoted}](name=RIP Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-09-18T17:50:37.624+0000)
He can peel like Janna He can poke like Lux He can stun like Leona
He's a different champion that's fun to play.
The issue win gragas as support is that minions can block his body check. I know this can occur with thresh and naut. But unlike thresh, naut, leona and braum who go all in, he is not as tanky as they are. If you build him tanky his poke is useless since it really does no dmg just a minor slow. His ult can be usefull but most of the time it will be hard ot land. Since the adc is in the back and u will need to get close to get to him. This can lead to u or your adc getting caught by their tank support.
500000000000000013 votesThat means you can pick him and then decide how to build him later. Being a generalist means being versatile. He can start relic or coin depending on how you want to play in lane. He can build full tank or with a bit of damage. And his ultimate is way too good.
RIP Resonance6 votesThe issue win gragas as support is that minions can block his body check. I know this can occur with thresh and naut. But unlike thresh, naut, leona and braum who go all in, he is not as tanky as they are. If you build him tanky his poke is useless since it really does no dmg just a minor slow. His ult can be usefull but most of the time it will be hard ot land. Since the adc is in the back and u will need to get close to get to him. This can lead to u or your adc getting caught by their tank support.
I disagree completely. There's a reason why people took him in the jungle as a tank. He has high base damage and poor AP ratios. He offers CC and being able to sustain very well. I find that Gragas works very well against 
because of her poor range which allows her to be caught with ease.
XxobscenexX1 votesI disagree and your rank and win ratio dont really help support your evidence
The Governer4 votesEnough with this whole "if you are in lower rank you are crappy and your opinions do not worth a damn" argument...
Seriously have people grown up already? Do you even realize rank is not equivalent to game knowledge? Acting like a conceited egotist and talking bullshit like "oh you have lower rank than me so you better shut up" doesn't really help support your opinions either. It just makes you look even more pathetic.
This game is not "rocket science". You don't need higher rank or PhD to understand the concepts of the game. All you have to do is to study the data available in League of Legends Wiki, and acquire experience in the game.
Rustling Bush2 votes[{quoted}](name=RIP Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-09-18T17:50:37.624+0000)
He can peel like Janna He can poke like Lux He can stun like Leona
He's a different champion that's fun to play.
janna q and ult are better disengages considering her knock back heals and pretty much keeps them out of the area lux has a much bigger range then gragas and higher damage stun like leona only if their aren't minons in the way and you can get close enough, which during the laning phrase is a problem
i'm not saying hes not a fun champion but hes pretty much the master of nothing when it comes to support which i was saying, a jack of trades.
RIP Resonance6 votes[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-09-18T18:11:15.724+0000)
hes pretty much the master of nothing
Except for a ton of utility, cc, and sustain.
Chaotic Sage2 votesBy master nothing I'm reasonably sure that he's referring to him having a bit of everything but being the best in nothing. So he may have all the things you say, but master of nothing still applies.
Linthe3 votes[{quoted}](name=RIP Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-09-18T17:50:37.624+0000)
He can peel like Janna
No.. No he cant... LOL.
RIP Resonance17 votesNo.. No he cant... LOL.
Except that he can. Seeing as he can throw his ult to peel and Janna requires him standing inside the teamfight. It works as an engage and disengage. I main support with Janna as my main, I know what I'm talking about.
Linthe5 votes[{quoted}](name=RIP Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2015-09-18T19:04:51.324+0000)
Except that he can. Seeing as he can throw his ult to peel and Janna requires him standing inside the teamfight. It works as an engage and disengage. I main support with Janna as my main, I know what I'm talking about.
Except that he cant.. no.. Janna's E, Q and W and R are better than whatever Gragas is bringing... Probably doesn't even NEED her R/E. W and Q are enough.
So no... he doesn't peel anything LIKE Janna can peel...
Tails Doll3 votesYes he can. E R and Q have good CC on them to be enough peel.
DokiDokiTodoroki3 votesDumping his whole kit to peel off 1 or 2 people and match Janna's most basic skill? Nothing like Janna. "Can work," doesn't mean it works well.
LeeDark1 votesNo, dumping his whole kit to peel off 1 or 2 people and match Janna's whole kit. Compare their abilities. The only thing Janna has that Gragas doesn't is a shield. Gragas gets damage instead. %max health damage, at that, great for chunking whatever tank or fighter he is peeling, without the need to build a single item to make it hurt.
DokiDokiTodoroki2 votesOkay we'll compare their abilities. We'll also assume that Gragas is building tank and Janna is building utility AP, since those are the standard builds and you quote "without the need to build a single item to make it hurt." Janna's cooldowns are mostly lower by mid game as she likely has anywhere from 15%-35% CDR from items.
Passive: Janna grants move speed to allies moving towards her. Gragas gets extra health back in lane. He's melee though, so he'll likely get poked down a lot and will need that healing just to stay in lane. Janna's passive allows her adc and her team to kite more effectively at all levels by just running behind them.
Q: Janna's Q provides a knock up with a range of over 1700 and a duration from .25-1.25 seconds. Gragas' takes 1 second less to charge and has a greater slow over 1.3-2 seconds but significantly lower range. His base damage is higher than hers at all levels, but he builds nothing to contribute to ratios, which means that by late game they're about even. The barrels are also arguably much easier to dodge.
W: Janna's W gives bonus move speed and allows her to move through units when not on cooldown. This synergizes with her passive during all stages of the game. The active is a slow from 600 range over a duration of 3 seconds. Gragas' w is damage reduction in exchange for being unable to use spells or aa, and then does a small amount of magic damage plus 8% of their max health if he manages to auto attack.
E: Janna's E is arguably her best spell. It gives a shield with good ap scaling and base values that also gives bonus AD to whoever she shields. This skill is usually maxed first and gives the equivalent of a free bf sword at max rank. It can also be cast on turrets. Gragas' E is his main engage/cc, putting him in melee range of an enemy in exchange for knocking them up and stunning them for 1 second. By now we're realizing that all of Gragas' base damages are pretty high, but they also don't scale because you're building him full tank.
R: Janna's ultimate is a knock back that also heals minimum 300 health to any allies in its range over a 3 second channel. Gragas' is also a knockback with relatively the same area of effect and (you guessed it) high base damage. Also it's considered a projectile by Yasuo windwall and Braum unbreakable.
Range: Janna has an aa range of 475. Gragas is melee at 125. Janna's abilities range anywhere from 600-1700, whereas Gragas' are from 125-1150, decreasing heavily to a maximum of 850 after putting a second point in his ultimate.
The biggest factor here is range. Gragas is a very strong generalist jungler, and it shows with his high base damages, some method of sustain, and the ability to cc people as well as deal damage. However, his knockup, which is already inferior to Janna's in range, area of effect, and cc duration, requires him to be in melee range of his targets. I think you can hardly call it peeling when in reality it's more of a "take me instead" suicidal move. Most of the time a good Gragas body slam can be used to reengage, but we're talking about peeling away enemies for your carries.
His CC durations are lower. The cooldowns are higher. Everything has less range, and the only knockup requires melee range and almost certain death (Gragas isn't a second Leona, either). The ults accomplish the same kind of displacement, But Janna's comes with a heal while Gragas' does damage. If your role is to peel, than anything short of an instant nuke (they can't kill you if they're dead) is useless. A Gragas ult throwing off a Zed and taking away 200 more health isn't going to save your ADC when the death mark pops, but that same displacement plus an AOE heal just might. Janna's abilities and passive allow her team to constantly kite an engage comp, while Gragas' relies on getting a pick (a method of engage) or using his ult to end the fight before it starts and hope that your team will win it later.
One massive post later, TLDR; Janna's kit has less damage, will actually scale with her build, and is designed to kite, peel, and disengage, which is her entire identity. Gragas is a generalist, which means he has higher base damage/cc values, lower cc duration, is also melee, and can be easily kited. As far as peeling goes Janna's ult is entirely more successful. Her kit provides constant peel, his is much more situational and arguably suicidal. Again, it's not that Gragas support can't work. It just won't necessarily work well, and not as well as the leaders of individual niches. Thresh is the best generalist support, so playing Gragas support is a matter of personal choice and enjoyment, not any advantage that he brings to the table.
LeeDark1 votesYou got a couple of things wrong. First of all, they are being played support. For the vast majority of the game, they are building the same items and relying on natural tankiness and mobility to survive if they become the focus. The items they build are basically going to be the same, with the exception of their gold generating support item.
Gragas will absolutely always take Relic Shield, and keep it throughout the game. Janna will take one of the other two, but will probably want the Coin late game.
After that, both will build boots (probably mobis) and sightstone. Then comes the assortment of support items almost always needed: Aegis/Locket and Zeke's. Right there, you have five item slots filled with exactly the same items. They'll probably not make it to six items, since the sixth slot is for a pink until you can afford a full sixth item very late game, and that's where Janna might consider something full AP like a Deathcap, while Gragas will probably choose the best tank item for the situation.
Second, Gragas Q peels just fine, and is ranged. His ult, like Janna's, can even be used to peel in a pinch. Only his E puts him in danger, and really, he can use his other abilities to peel, hit someone, and then even use his Body Slam to help HIMSELF escape.
DokiDokiTodoroki1 votesJanna builds Talisman 99% of the time. The active on this is arguably better than Relic, since it provides a movement speed boost to the entire team. Relic active provides a shield to one target for 10% of the user's maximum health. That's about 250-300 at five items, which is still equivalent to the value of Janna's E.
Janna can also build items like Ardent Censor or Mejias, which provide more utility to her team/more shielding. She is meant to be a back line for her team. If Gragas builds a final tank item, then it's expected that he helps engage and front line, or else no one cares that he's a little more tanky because he and his adc should be the last ones to die.
You have to count his ult into how much he can peel. It's not an added bonus on top of other abilities, it's one of the main factors that allows you to even consider him as a peeling champion. Also, again, like I pointed out, his skills have very low cc duration. His W does not peel. His Q does after a 2 second delay, for 1.25-2 seconds. His ult can disrupt a fight, but the knock back from it basically ends the fight right there unless it's also used to get a pick, which is engage, not peel. His E only peels if he has throws himself into melee range and then he will likely die. His full combo keeps 1, maybe 2 champions CCed for 3 seconds, and only 1 second of that is a stun. If he uses his E defensively then all he has is a delayed slow and an ult as disruption.
Janna's cc time adds up to about 4.25 seconds, 1.25 of which is a knockup, plus a shield. Her skills have longer range, more area of effect, and her passive/abilities contribute to her team as a whole. Her shield not only keeps her carries alive, but it gives her adcs a significant offensive bonus. Also, her ultimate heals her team for anywhere from 600-900 health over 3 seconds. Again, much more beneficial to her team.
Annie would peel better than Gragas. Just give him his cookie for being a decent generalist support, but don't say that he's like Janna.
LeeDark2 votesAnnie does not peel better than Gragas. That's just confirming you're a fucking idiot. Done here.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesWhole kit? Janna has a shield+ad bonus, a heal, and basically the Captain boots enchant from the start. I didnt know Gragas had that.
LeeDark1 votesAnd Gragas has that %maxhealth damage everybody has been whining about forever.
Is Janna really in such a bad state that people are bragging about not needing to buy the Captain enchant??? LMAO
ChaoticPinecone1 votesSo you were wrong. Just admit it.
Gragas "dumping his whole kit to peel off 1 or 2 people" does not match Janna's whole kit.
LeeDark1 votesPoint was that I didn't mention the stuff Gragas had that doesn't peel either. Just like I wasn't looking at how much Janna DOESN'T peel with abilities at AREN'T PEEL.
Do you get it yet? Get lost, either way, because I'm done explaining it to a moron.
Subject 51 votesExcept that he cant.. no.. Janna's E, Q and W and R are better than whatever Gragas is bringing... Probably doesn't even NEED her R/E. W and Q are enough.
So no... he doesn't peel anything LIKE Janna can peel...
Lul wut
Gragas would be a picker for a front-line support instead of back-line while also having engage. That is why he would be picked, especially if the team needs a more beefy support.
Subject 51 votes[{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=000000000002000000000005,timestamp=2015-09-19T16:52:36.950+0000)
Lul wut
Gragas would be a picker for a front-line support instead of back-line while also having engage. That is why he would be picked, especially if the team needs a more beefy support.
Oh yeah, by the way. Riot made this problem, not the players.
BattleBalladeer9 votesOh hell yes he can. Like Resonance says its a ranged janna ult w/o the heal. In lane phase if you are even the slightest bit out of placed you are forced to fight, and that ult can displace a carry right under enemy tower or far away from their own tower and meters away from their support. Of course he doesn't peel like Janna because he is Gragas and not Janna and therefore has his own list of weaknesses and strengths.
Beoridas1 votesjanna has a much better peel kit. by far. He's not even close to poke like lux. And leona has 3 hard cc. He has one hard cc thats blockable by minions, one conditional slow and a displacement. hardly the same.
But does he offer a bit of everything? sure. and its probably legit. but your comparisons are a bit over the top
RIP Resonance6 votesjanna has a much better peel. by far. He's not even close to poke like lux. And leona has 3 hard cc. He has one hard cc, one conditional slow and a displacement. hardly the same.
But does he offer a bit of everything? sure.
If you want to be technical
Janna has a conditional knockup and ultimate. Lux has a conditional slow, snare, shield, and ultimate. Leona has a conditional gap closer and ultimate.
Linthe1 votes[{quoted}](name=RIP Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=0000000000030000,timestamp=2015-09-18T19:11:30.834+0000)
If you want to be technical
Janna has a conditional knockup and ultimate.
And she has TAILWIND. What does Gragas have like that?
RIP Resonance4 votesAnd she has TAILWIND. What does Gragas have like that?
There's a wonderful enchantment item you can build with a similar ability 
Linthe2 votes[{quoted}](name=RIP Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=cEVU2pTM,comment-id=000000000003000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-18T21:18:46.796+0000)
There's a wonderful enchantment item you can build with a similar ability
Janna can get that too.. then what?? Janna has tailwind at level 1. When is Gragas getting CAPTAIN??
LeeDark5 votesNobody picks Janna for Tailwind.
IcyPepper4 votesDepends on if you're playing ranked or normals :V
Ranked, yeah you do want the best. If Gragas support filled a particular niche that needed filling, it could work, but...
But as for normals, it's both for practice and for fun (not too much of either). There's a difference between trolling and breaking the meta, and the latter is perfectly acceptable.
Sinlaire2 votesI like playing 
support when my friends adc with or when a normal is playing an early game lane bully and they say its ok that i do it.
darius is fun because at lvl 3 he offers 2 90% slows, a pull that can catch the enemy when they're trying to run to tower, and his own sustain from Q. 24% max hp currently if he can tag both bot laners.
combined with building tank and having a good ult and passive for securing kills, it's actually a decent way to force feed an adc without compromising a position to a pure utility bot like this current 
debate.
Besides. Didn't Riot themselves post a Dark Horses page a while back about the trundle support fad that was in for a bit?
i mean off meta isn't devastating. especially when 
support was considered troll once upon a time. people crying about off meta are stupid. if you want meta play ranked. normals are for fun and for experimentation.
T RexHasTinyArms1 votesI'd argue it is also appropriate in ranked if it is a comfort level thing. I don't even own many champs for my off roles so when I fill it's kinda like "do you want X or do you want Y?" People ask for thresh all the time when I'm last pick filling support and I always laugh bc why would I own thresh if I don't main support. He's 6300 IP and I started leveling my account in season 2 and still don't own every single champ I have ever wanted for jungle, mid, and top, every rune I could want to use (looking at you spell vamp quints and hybrid pen reds that I just haven't been able to justify buying), and all 20 rune pages I could buy. If I'm sitting on 6300 IP I'm gonna buy a 6th rune page rather than a champ for a role I don't play unless 3 out of 5 roles are already picked.
agbudar5 voteshalf the games i played as morde in ranked i got trolled people after a month still don't get the meta 90% of this community wants to watch the world burn
Jari4 votesFun fact: There was a time where Gragas was played as support for meta.
GuiltyGecko4 votesAnyone that tries to call Gragas support bad are the same type of people that will turn right around and try to defend it once a pro starts playing it.
Before Pro: "Omg, it's shit cuz X,Y,Z."
After Pro: "Omg, it's dank cuz X,Y,Z."
Big Bang Bob4 votesI'm happy to say that so far, I've been able to play AP 
mid without getting flamed. :D
Maybe it's just because I'm in team builder and people accept whatever comes with starting a game with me.
The Real Solnos3 votesI have played gragas support for quite a few games because my team allows it and he is a valid support. He has faster warding than most supports since his dash has low mana costs and can pass through walls. He is pretty tanky, around bard level only though, because of his w. Like people mention his cc is very good. His ult changes games, and can make plays. His e is a good knockup especially with flash. In its best use, it can knock up an entire team. It also actually has a very short cooldown. With the amount of cdr that support buys, you can peel very well with it. I have had the other team complain about how gragas kept knocking them up and couldnt kill the backline. Even his q is a very good slow. It has far ranged so its good for catching people out. People seems up underestimate slows, but one slow = death if conditions are right. He can be played as tanky or poke in lane and then transition to tank later on to be relevant. In lane he also has superb sustain compared to other poke supports. But he is a good support that can carry. He is also very fun.
The downside to support gragas is that his e range was nerfed making it difficult to hit especially with minions. His plays can mess people up and he has a high skillcap. He is also poked down in lane like a thresh but he doesnt have as high a death potential. So the best way to play is probably to poke them with his q and counter engage with e if they go in. The biggest problem is that people dont really know how to play with him or trust him, kinda like bard, so its best to play with people who knows how to play with gragas.
Other than that i find him to be a lot more fun to play than other supports. It was really annoying when people say that he doesnt work because he does.
CasterGilgamesh2 votesgrag support sounds like just a weak gimmick to be honest
Lord of Vendetta1 votessorry but your being a hypocrite
if your ok with off meta picks then let him play his ap draven mid in peace
BetaDude4010 votesExcept there's a difference between off-meta and trolling.
AP Draven is trolling because he literally has no AP ratios in his entire kit. The only AP items that would be remotely useful for him would be ones with significant passives or actives, like 
, 
, ect.