New champ select Q&A with the dev team!

RiotLyte·Nov 12, 2015·49 votes·275,649 views

2016 Season Update

Hey all,

Lyte here. Last week we shared the new champ select for the first time. For the next couple of hours, the design team behind the feature will be here to answer all your champ select questions.

Here’s who’s hanging out with me:

Daniel “ryedan” Balmert, Kam “boourns” Fung, and Eric “Socrates” Kenna. Come ask us anything you want about the design, the visuals, or experience of the new champ select!

EDIT ::: Team's going to grab some lunch! May drop by here and there to answer some remaining questions. Thanks for stopping by!

1,102 Comments

ADepressedLeonaNov 12, 201546 votes

I still have a concern with everyone showing what champion they want to play before the bans.

I can already see the trolls grinning from ear to ear.

RiotRyedanNov 12, 2015113 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowy Poro,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WV2VqZca,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-12T18:39:33.269+0000)

I still have a concern with everyone showing what champion they want to play before the bans.

I can already see the trolls grinning from ear to ear.

Bans are important. In the live version of Draft, the captain has the opportunity to use 3 bans to troll his teammates. Each ban used to "troll" allies means that some dangerous, high value champ is left on the table. The distribution of bans makes it so when you DO have someone trolling, their power is contained to a single ban.

Also, you don't have to declare a champion intent if you don't want. Something I pitched to Lyte was having the 6 roles (Tank, Mage, Assassin, Fighter, Support, Marksman) available in the champion grid as an option instead of declaring a specific champion, so you could be like "We have a Fiddlesticks jungle and we have a Leona bot, I think I should play a fighter top to round out the comp, but I'm not sure which one."

What do you guys think?

SkadeglädjeNov 12, 201536 votes

{quoted} Also, you don't have to declare a champion intent if you don't want. Something I pitched to Lyte was having the 6 roles (Tank, Mage, Assassin, Fighter, Support, Marksman available in the champion grid as an option instead of declaring a specific champion, so you could be like "We have a Fiddlesticks jungle and we have a Leona bot, I think I should play a fighter top to round out the comp, but I'm not sure which one."

What do you guys think?

This is something I would really like. I already try to speak in terms of "we need a control mid" or "tank jungler" to discuss comps in champ select. Your idea sounds like it would make it a lot easier to do on the fly/without language barrier.

RiotRiot SocratesNov 12, 201537 votes

One of our goals with the new champ select was to formalize a lot of communication to make it easier to get on the same page with your team quickly. Ultimately we believe this will let players focus on strategy instead of just trying to figure out positions.

MungoGeriNov 12, 201519 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Socrates,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WV2VqZca,comment-id=0002000100020000,timestamp=2015-11-12T20:04:37.770+0000)

One of our goals with the new champ select was to formalize a lot of communication to make it easier to get on the same page with your team quickly. Ultimately we believe this will let players focus on strategy instead of just trying to figure out positions.

My experience using it on the PBE was that the trolling issue wasn't as bad as people feared -- and in fact because there was more clarity about positions, there was less of it than usual. The only time in champ select that it came up was when I tried to play a champion in a non-meta role -- namely, jungle Lulu. I knew from then on to declare a more meta but similar jungle (say, Kindred) and then switch during select.

However, the benefit of declaring champs was terrific in general. For example, when several people chose champs who popped people up (for example, I was playing support Zyra), one of the earlier pick players changed his mid pick to Yasuo. Also, it really gave everyone a chance to talk and say, "Woah, we don't have a tank here. Can someone pick one?" I enjoyed the new champ select experience on the PBE, and I think people are worried about trolling too much. Trolls will be trolls (and they can be reported). The new champ select makes the situation better.

PharohNov 12, 201541 votes

Will a lobby vote to kick ever be implemented? I'm sick of people trolling in lobbies and either ruining the gaming or causing everyone to requeue.

DarkLordArbiturNov 12, 201518 votes

I agree with this one. Can we get a lobby vote kick?

blagulNov 12, 201525 votes

this would go a long way to helping out with the troll problem. Getting punished for leaving a Que filled with trolls is a bad feeling.

RiotboournsNov 12, 201531 votes

We expect that the new champion select experience will greatly reduce these kinds of situations. We're going to look at our metrics after release and see if there's value in attacking the problem more.

That said, we don't think vote kick is a great way to solve the problem. If we do work around negative champion select behavior it will be more around reporting that behavior after you dodge. Vote kick just has too many negative side effects (it may actually increase bullying of off-meta champion picks for example).

MiyuNov 12, 201525 votes

Has a "vote disband" alternative been considered? Whatever that may mean to you.

AMYS GRAVENov 12, 201511 votes

What about the punishments for dodging in that situation then? How would they be mitigated and by what metrics would you evaluate the validity of the report?

AzuranNov 12, 201531 votes

Will we have the option of creating a custom pool of champions? In the same vein, would it be possible for me to have different 'pages' of pools? For example, if I get assigned Top, I'd like my Top Mains list to come up. If I get to ban, Maybe have a Preferred Bans list.

RiotRyedanNov 12, 201514 votes

{quoted}

Will we have the option of creating a custom pool of champions? In the same vein, would it be possible for me to have different 'pages' of pools? For example, if I get assigned Top, I'd like my Top Mains list to come up. If I get to ban, Maybe have a Preferred Bans list.

It's always a cost vs benefit issue, but we're willing to look at the benefit. Something we've kicked around is having your top X (5?) played champions stickied to the top of the champion grid (for easy access). We want to use something smart that doesn't require management, otherwise it's unlikely to get adopted (and therefore deliver any value) to many players. Item sets are great for power users, but we didn't see as much use as we thought. It's great for those couple of people that really use it, but we could have brought something much more useful to more players.

GavranNov 12, 20158 votes

I was just thinking about this with my friends the other day. I thought I'd get way more use out of item sets, but in practice I just don't at all. It might be too little too late, but I think part of the issue was accessing them in game. Maybe it could replace Recommended as the default where you've made one for a specific champion?

But even then, champions change, items come and go, the shop UI is pretty clean and effective regardless (especially that search, including "slang" from "IE" to "spooky ghosts" was an excellent insight, many cookies to the Rioter responsible.)

Actually, to bring this discussion full circle: could you consider trying to add more of that kind of functionality to the champion select search bar? Right now (I believe) it only does champion names and also if you type for example 'marksman' (but only the whole word, it won't show anything until you finish typing) it will show all champions with that tag. Adding support for nicknames like "TF" and "Susan" would be a good start, and just maybe if you're saving that data (I assume you are) you could implement stuff like "top" showing champions that you personally have taken to top lane recently / more than X times.

Junsui AoiNov 12, 201515 votes

I would love for Nasus to come up when Susan is typed!!

Sir KnowsalotNov 13, 201518 votes

I'd like to see sub-tags, like Leona doesn't pop up when you type support, But if you type Tank she pops up, but currently i only ever see her support so why not add the Support tag to her when searching?

In the client Leona's Overview under attributes says she's a Tank with a secondary as Support. You already have secondary roles written down on most champions it's just not a real tag you can search for yet. (some of the tags might need working on, as Gangplank currently only has fighter and he probably isn't the only one with one attribute)

Also if you could add the + thing from the shop, where if you type Ahri+Annie in the skin shop you get all the available skins up for both, but more like if you write Support+tank you get up the champions that have those as main and secondary roles, like your Braum , TahmKench , Taric , Alistar

Another thing you could add is the "juggernaut" tag just so we can type it and get our perma-bans on one screen

And random tags like "Beard", "Mustache", "Animal", "Girl", "Guy", "Demacia", "Noxus",,,,,,,,,,,, the list goes on and on for wierd random tags that Could be cool. Wanna play a full yordle team Type Yordle, want a shadow isles team just type Shadow or SI, Want transformers team, go on, type that transform, Trap team, Fear Team, Stun Team, Whitest Smile Team

I started rambling there, but yeah, would it be difficult to add more searchable tags for champions? Cause i Garen ty that this would help new and old players alike when picking a champion to play or buy

[slayer-jinx-wink] HA... I made a funny

7ha7guy777Nov 12, 201529 votes

Will there be a fill except X option for people who are jacks of 4 trades?

Deep Terror NamiNov 12, 201519 votes

I don't have a question, I just want to say thank you to everyone that worked on this. [slayer-jinx-wink] ######P.S. Rioters and and mods feel free to add me in game. I love chatting and having an occasional game with them :3

TubbyLerueNov 12, 20153 votes

I have always wanted to play with a rioter .3.

RiotLyteNov 12, 201535 votes

{quoted}

I have always wanted to play with a rioter .3.

Maybe we should setup a community game. Dev team versus the world.

FlippyGoneTrippyNov 12, 201517 votes

I'm worried that this will increase the time before games by too much. The only reason I don't play ranked or draft often is because I go through 5 minutes of people picking their champions (maybe not that long but I feel like everyone always waits till the last second to lock in and ban). I know this was addressed in the main post (I remember reading something about the pregame times being shorter) but I want to make sure I have a full understanding of this.

Could someone bullet point breakdown each step of what happens before you start a game for me and how long the players have to complete that step?

RiotRiot SocratesNov 12, 201548 votes

I felt the same way with the old experience, Drafting can feel like it takes a long time and we definitely didn't want to make it take longer. In our testing so far we've seen champ selects move slightly faster. The biggest change that impacts this is requiring champion selections to be locked in instead of it being possible to idle on a champ selection and have it auto lock at the end.

This is what it looks like from old to new:

Old Champ Select: Ban Phase: 60s per ban (360s total) Pick Phase: 60s per pick (360s total) *Remember, 2 players pick at once sometimes Resolution/Trades Phase: 60s Total: 780s potential cap

New Champ Select: Position Assignment: ~4s Planning Phase: ~35s Ban Phase: 40s per ban (240s total) Pick Phase: 40s per pick (400s total) Resolution/Trades Phase: 40s Total: 720s potential cap

The above is subject to changes based on testing.

SmokeyDragonbornNov 12, 201515 votes

this is awesome

VeraskaNov 12, 201516 votes

Simple question, if you can tell us do you know how soon it'll be for us to get new champ select, I was under the impression it was part of the preseason changes but that was my mistake

ThalesNov 12, 201513 votes

Hi, Lyte! I tried out the new champion select on PBE last week.

It looks really, really cool. Are you at all concerned that the huge visual change may confound attempts to gauge the actual impact of the functional changes?

I like the choice to have the champion select quote play globally when champs get locked in. What prompted this change? Is there any concern about champ select quotes (Sona, etc.) that don't make much sense this way?

RiotLyteNov 12, 201516 votes

{quoted}

Hi, Lyte! I tried out the new champion select on PBE last week.

It looks really, really cool. Are you at all concerned that the huge visual change may confound attempts to gauge the actual impact of the functional changes?

I like the choice to have the champion select quote play globally when champs get locked in. What prompted this change? Is there any concern about champ select quotes (Sona, etc.) that don't make much sense this way?

We're planning some deep dives and behind the scenes looks at the building of the new Champ Select, and our initial testing was actually with these ugly (sorry boourns!) prototypes that just had grey boxes and words. This is called UX lab testing in the games industry, and allows design teams to focus feedback and testing on the actual functional experience of the system and not be distracted by the polish of fancy visuals or animations. It's only until pretty far in the project until you start adding in the stuff that makes the system look like magic.

The Champ Select quotes being played was actually a spontaneous idea by RiotBahamut. He was tinkering with the Champ Select and thought it would be cool, and the team instantly loved how it felt. We're aware there could be some trolling or spammy experiences, but we think the overall value would be worthwhile. In fact, we'd love to add some more easter eggs to the system...

Top Ramen ChefNov 12, 2015279 votes

In fact, we'd love to add some more easter eggs to the system...

If we pick an all Demacian team, can you make it so the entire team yells DEMACIA! when the final champ is locked in? ;)

CrazytankNov 12, 2015190 votes

I never knew I wanted this until now.

NativePervertNov 12, 201512 votes

when will this be released?

PryotraNov 12, 20158 votes

Well, when is it going live? Even a rough estimate would be nice.

Also, will people be able to see your champion mastery in select? For example, I'm lvl 5 mastery with Heimer. Would other players be able to see that this guy who wants to take Heimer in knows how to play him? Or would it be hidden until the loading screen?

RiotLyteNov 12, 201517 votes

{quoted}

Well, when is it going live? Even a rough estimate would be nice.

Also, will people be able to see your champion mastery in select? For example, I'm lvl 5 mastery with Heimer. Would other players be able to see that this guy who wants to take Heimer in knows how to play him? Or would it be hidden until the loading screen?

To be honest, we're not sure when we're going to go live yet. We have some polish we'd like to do, maybe a new feature or two, and have one nasty bug we need to fix before the Ranked 2016 Season. The team would love to do another PBE test, and potentially a roll out to NA and TR before the Ranked 2016 Season begins to iron out any further kinks, but we're working around the clock right now and it's hard to predict when each of these pieces will finish.

Right now, there are no plans to allow everyone to see your Champion Mastery in Champ Select. We may re-visit this in the future though, and would just have to balance out the negative behaviors that were created. For example, in a distant future when we have more than 5 levels of Champion Mastery, maybe we only show Champion Mastery only when you are Level 10 or higher--this is a significant investment, and something "cool" to show you're a master with a champion. However, Level 10 might be a lofty, challenging goal. If we decided to show, say Level 2 Champ Mastery or higher, it would create an immediate perception that if you WEREN'T showing Champ Mastery with a champ, that you shouldn't play Ranked at all. We're aware some players would love this type of "gate" on who you can play in Ranked, but it's not something we're going to consider today because there are more important issues to improve in Ranked Mode.

GPUNov 12, 20157 votes

Hey guys, when will this go live in EUW?

RiotLyteNov 12, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Hey guys, when will this go live in EUW?

We'd like to do some pre-season testing on NA and TR first, and if things are going well, we'll rapidly roll it out globally.

HeruEdhelNov 12, 201558 votes

do we have an eta on when it would role out on NA?

Huang ShaotianNov 12, 20152 votes

Just out of curiosity why do you do all your testing on the NA servers which has your largest server population instead of testing it out on smaller servers that would effect less people if something goes wrong first?

RiotLyteNov 13, 201519 votes

{quoted}

Just out of curiosity why do you do all your testing on the NA servers which has your largest server population instead of testing it out on smaller servers that would effect less people if something goes wrong first?

We see this question a lot, so going to jump in even though it's late in the thread. When we choose to test new systems and features, it has everything to do with timezone. Although some teams work in multiple offices around the world, 100% of our team works in the LA office which means we prefer to choose a test server that has a timezone that does NOT completely wreck our sleep schedules.

You generally want to turn on a new feature or system during off-peak hours, say 6 AM, and then monitor it for about 24 hours at a time. By choosing NA, we can basically wake up and sleep at an OK time which is far less exhausting for the team.

VanilliteNov 12, 20156 votes

Will we be able to choose ward skins and buy champion skins in the future during the new select?

RiotLyteNov 12, 201517 votes

{quoted}

Will we be able to choose ward skins and buy champion skins in the future during the new select?

Yes! This is a feature we're still working on, but didn't finish by the first PBE release.

OKIGorgonNov 12, 20155 votes

If a player fails to lock in a pick or ban, champ select ends and players return to queue

Does this mean, it's impossible to wait until timer runs out to NOT ban anyone? Will we get option to abstain from banning or to ban random champion? I actually prefer banless games (even ranked) just because of challenge it provides.

RavenHuskyNov 12, 201525 votes

No. There is no point in skipping a ban, other than to piss off your teammates.

RiotLyteNov 12, 201528 votes

{quoted}

Does this mean, it's impossible to wait until timer runs out to NOT ban anyone? Will we get option to abstain from banning or to ban random champion? I actually prefer banless games (even ranked) just because of challenge it provides.

No, we've intentionally removed the ability to let the timer run out to lock in a Pick, or skip a Ban. When you're in a team with strangers, skipping a ban is a confusing and frustrating experience for the rest of the team (and they often misunderstand it as the Captain being AFK). If you really want the challenge of skipping bans, grab 4 friends and join Dynamic Queue as a Premade of 5 and ban random champions.

Maou EmperorNov 12, 20155 votes

With the new champion select, would it be possible to have like when your champion you wanted to play is ban, where you can also show your team mates who you want to play while they are pick and banning?

Like FE: I picked Zed to play, and then they began to ban Zed, would there be a like a button where I can show my team mates who I may play instead after they banned Zed.

RiotboournsNov 12, 201520 votes

This is something we're looking at adding, although I don't know if it will be in the initial release. Personally I'd love to be able to bring the champion grid back up during picks and bans so I can convey up-to-date information to my team.

BaubleNov 12, 20153 votes

Guys please.. very important question for me! Did you consider adding Summoner Icon Select into new Champion Select? E.g. I'm going to play Mecha skin so I can select Mecha icon during draft. (So many icons, not so many reasons to buy them all atm!)

RiotRyedanNov 12, 201515 votes

{quoted}

Guys please.. very important question for me! Did you consider adding Summoner Icon Select into new Champion Select? E.g. I'm going to play Mecha skin so I can select Mecha icon during draft. (So many icons, not so many reasons to buy them all atm!)

This is a tricky situation. Your summoner icon isn't really shown in champ select (unless you count the load screen). Let's be honest - as your ally, I care more about what you're playing than what your icon is in champ select.

Now, being able to choose icons, ward skins, skins, chromas, finishers etc. all together AFTER I've selected my champion is a feature set we're considering.

OlãfNov 12, 20151 votes

So, first of all I want to say that you created something awesome there. It looks really nice and the banphase is -in my opinion- really great so there is no possibility of the first pick, may he be a troll, trollbanning three champs.

Now coming to my questions:

1.) Why did you choose the last three people to ban instead of the first three? 2.) What if a summoner, who picked 'fill' as one of his roles/positions gets to fill a position he actually doesn't want to play? Will there be a chance to kick this one in champselect and return to queue? Or will there be something like an extra reason to report him after the game? And what will you do against people like this?

RiotLyteNov 12, 201515 votes

[{quoted}](name=VV ShockwavE,realm=EUW,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=WV2VqZca,comment-id=002d,timestamp=2015-11-12T19:44:45.437+0000)

So, first of all I want to say that you created something awesome there. It looks really nice and the banphase is -in my opinion- really great so there is no possibility of the first pick, may he be a troll, trollbanning three champs.

Now coming to my questions:

1.) Why did you choose the last three people to ban instead of the first three? 2.) What if a summoner, who picked 'fill' as one of his roles/positions gets to fill a position he actually doesn't want to play? Will there be a chance to kick this one in champselect and return to queue? Or will there be something like an extra reason to report him after the game? And what will you do against people like this?

boourns remembers the crazy testing we had to do with Distributed Bans. At the beginning, we actually had Players 1, 2, 3, get the bans, then Players 4 and 5 get 1st and 2nd pick. However, this was super confusing to players in the testing because they already had years of prior experience of picks "starting" from the top of the team. So, we swapped it the current format where Players 3, 4, 5 get the bans, then we "reset" into Pick Phase and start from the top. This was much clearer for current players of the game, so we stuck with it.

TuhglifeNov 12, 20151 votes

i like the design and how you can pick now your lane. but showing the champions before banning..... trolls will use it.

RiotLyteNov 12, 201511 votes

{quoted}

i like the design and how you can pick now your lane. but showing the champions before banning..... trolls will use it.

Actually, we saw something pretty weird in our playtests with Distributed Bans and Pick Intent. Because every single player now has a powerful "choice" in Champ Select (whether it's a ban, or the top 2 picks), it actually reduced trolling of Pick Intent. So basically, players were far less likely to ban a Pick Intent (unless they thought it was a S-tier champion or something) because they knew that if they pissed off their teammates, their teammates could reverse-troll them with their powerful choice.

If you're super worried about trolling in Pick Intent either way, you can always let the timer run out and not choose any champs at all and display a blank helmet icon.

Sneak DogNov 12, 201527 votes

If you're super worried about trolling in Pick Intent either way, you can always let the timer run out and not choose any champs at all and display a blank helmet icon.

And then your allies ban helmet bro. :(