Flash needs some counterplay

Mooch07·Nov 9, 2015·2 votes·815 views

Flash needs some counterplay. Looking at you Tibbers.

Flash is too popular not to be considered the all-around best summoner spell. For example what if it had a SHORT silence and blind afterward? of course that would result in it being way more useful for escapes than chases. Which is not necessarily desirable. So add a speed boost maybe. Spill to me your better ideas.

Edit: It seems most of you guys don't see this type of play as a problem, or even un-fun. To me it always seems unfair when it happens because it feels unavoidable. I like to be able to avoid things and it feels fair when I fail to. If that's the case, what do you do differently when your enemy has flash? And not just the enemy in lane, but the jungler in the bush you warded and have perfect vision of but still can't escape the ganks?

15 Comments

Death by GlamourNov 9, 20152 votes

so rather than doing something with tibbers you want to screw over everyone else?

Mooch07Nov 9, 20151 votes

Yes I would like to screw over everyone else. You read my suggestion exactly right.

I guess real discussion was too much to ask.

Death by GlamourNov 9, 20152 votes

well you gave the example of flash tibbers being uncounterable, as then went on about how to change flash so to fix the issue. really the issue is with tibbers.

Mooch07Nov 9, 20151 votes

'Twas one of many examples. Mordekaiser has seen a lot of flash-kill recently. Gragas, Leona, Allistar, Blitz, Tryndamere, Udyr and Garen like to abuse flash to a lesser extent. You feel safe then flash - ability oh look you're dead. Those all have varying degrees of difficulty for the player to pull them off, but they rarely have any meaningful counterplay.

On the other hand, sometimes your opponent will make mistakes by staying in lane when they are too low or getting too close to the enemy team. Flash helps take advantage of those situations.

A lot of times however, flash just makes an already powerful ability overbearing and takes away all potential counterplay.

Mooch07Nov 9, 20151 votes

But yes Tibbers is pretty heavy too...

3tysonNov 9, 20152 votes

Maybe split flash in 2summoner spells

an offensive and a deffensive flash defensive would eat 30% of ur dmg a sillence or w/e Oofense could give u some steroids but have a dubble cooldown or just not give the sillence but duble cooldown

or something like that

Mooch07Nov 9, 20151 votes

Two quite different abilities. I like that idea. Maybe defensive could make a windwall sort of thing? Or not a windwall but just break locked on missiles? I've been killed my a single minion bullet after a flash before.

3tysonNov 9, 20152 votes

Ive thoug of it quite a while but couldnt come up with a good idea so i never posted it

i think splitting it up woule be a different reason

BattleMan69Nov 9, 20152 votes

Flash doesn't need counterplay because of tibbers. Tibbers needs counterplay because of flash

Mooch07Nov 9, 20151 votes

Timber is one of many examples. Probably the worst offender.

GroundRuleDoubleNov 9, 20151 votes

No reason to nerf it when everyone has the ability to get it without hindering them in any way. Maybe it could use a longer cooldown, but it's already a very long cooldown. I think it's fine.

Mooch07Nov 9, 20151 votes

Here's a reason. When an ability has no or little counterplay, it is not fun to play against. As an extreme example, lets say Karthus's ult had a shorter cooldown it would be incredibly un-fun to play against because there is no way around it. (Yes... I know what Zonya's is. Not everyone can get that) You can say anyone can choose Karthus but equal opportunity for broken abilities is also no fun.

As is, it can be interrupted (unless he ded) and has a very long cooldown. The long cooldown ensures the ability is about timing, not spamming.

Here's another example: We'll give the summoner spell exhaust summoner 3 a change so that it lasts for 12 seconds. There. We broke an ability. The adc/apc is now useless in that entire teamfight. There's no counterplay to it. Everyone would start choosing it. Game would be more fun without it though.

I am thinking flash is in a similar category. Limited counterplay with select abilities, everyone takes it. Just unequivocally the best.

GroundRuleDoubleNov 9, 20151 votes

To your Karthus example, only one team can have one Karthus. Very different than something that is available to everyone every game. Second, your example about exhaust would be relevant if you could flash 1000 units. The counter to flash is knowing flash's distance and knowing flash timers. Watch Annie and don't let her get in flash range. If you see her, flash in and stun her yourself.

Mooch07Nov 9, 20151 votes

Take my second example if you prefer.

Everyone having access to a feature surely does make it balanced, but it may not be fun to play against if there is no way to avoid it. Again - flash tibbers. At any rate, one of my least favorite parts of the game is unavoidable flash plays. No one likes getting flash - played. It feels unfair, even if it isn't. I'm trying to explain why I believe it needs to be changed.

And if the "counter" to a situation involves staying out of useful range, it is not a counter. Counterplay should not mean running away on sight. Or even worse, dying unavoidably on sight. Round a corner - see champion a safe distance away - champ flashes, stuns, kills. What could you have done to avoid dying? Nothing.