I can see this whole "less XP to get to level 30" idea going horribly wrong

PDE5 Inhib·Mar 22, 2016·4 votes·1,943 views

First off, most new players didn't really get the game upon reaching level 30 to begin with (hence the massive playerbase that still feed in bronze). Now you just shortened the learning for them. Second, you are going to have so many people in ranked matches without runes. "Oh, reached level 30, better buy my 3 more champs so I have enough to play ranked"...and they will Q up for ranked before having a full rune page. Then they will feed since they are really about level 20 without runes.

Literally the ONLY positive this has is for smurfs...and I don't think the game should be balanced around smurfs. Or players that have had their main account banned, and I'm not sure you should be catering to them either. Lower elo is already fucked enough, and you are making it worse. Hmmm...I wonder why you have a growing toxicity problem, despite your questionable at best attempts to fix it.

33 Comments

LostFr0stMar 22, 20163 votes

I know a lot of people who didn't even make it to lvl 30, they got frustrated that from lvl 16ish they were facing 30s in normal games and fighting them at a handicap without runes/masteries. (Even without me queueing up with them so it wasn't due to my acc) I've since told them about the xp thing and they're thinking about coming back so they can learn on an even playing field. They just had such a rough time.

PDE5 InhibMar 22, 20161 votes

I know a lot of people who didn't even make it to lvl 30, they got frustrated that from lvl 16ish they were facing 30s in normal games

This is a rito match making problem, not an XP problem, and adjusting the XP isn't going to change that.

Let's think about it for a second. Your friends are NOT going to get additional IP from matches, just XP. This means that players will reach level 30 faster (I believe rito said that it's equal to about level 15-20 now), but have the same IP as they did when they were level 16. So now, MOST previous level 16 experienced players are going to be playing MOSTLY level 30 players. These level 30 players aren't going to be "new" level 30 players only. So there's a very very good chance those players will have full runes.

So essentially they took an XP system that matched an old system few level 16 player with levels 30s mostly when the level 30 player was playing with a friend (or if the level 16 was really really good smurf and had extremely high norm MMR) and replaced it with a system that matches the vast majority of old level 16 players with level 30s....while keeping the level 16 players at the same IP amount for runes/champs. If you plan on buying any champs, which most new players just randomly do without thinking about "I might need runes later", you are going to reach level 20 with no IP to buy runes, and you're going to very quickly hit level 30 and be matched against players with full runes that have been playing for a long time, and potentially very good if they don't play normals often.

Trust me, if you're friends thought it was rough before, they are going to hate it when they get back and have to be a true level 20 player that is suddenly level 30 getting matched against silver ranked players. I'm level 14. I've played the game before (forgot pw and it was linked to old email so I couldn't recover my account), so I'm better than the average new player. What that means is that my MMR is higher than the average level 14 player and I STILL raaarely get a level 30 player on my team or on the other team. It's typically only happens when I play at crazy times, like this morning at 6:30 AM, when the player pool, and especially new player pool, is low.

Like I said, the only people this actually benefits are smurfs and people that are making a new account because their main got banned. Neither of which should be catered to when it negatively effects new players.

LostFr0stMar 22, 20161 votes

IDK I think they've made a ton of headway in matchmaking, especially with the new masteries. The fact that they show up on the loading screen seems to get people questioning what they are and why they have an X instead. I personally don't think that there's a difference between a new player and a silver ranked player. Just doing placements and going average will land you in silver.

You're definitely right about the runes though.

Reducing the price of the base ones was a really good step, I'd go so fa as to say due to that the IP difference is almost null.
However, the new players don't even get a popup or something at lvl 20 to guide them into buying runes (the good tier 3 ones obv).

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

IDK I think they've made a ton of headway in matchmaking, especially with the new masteries.

Lol, that's not a matchmaking problem, that a result of a "buy thornmail on Ashe" tutorial problem.

I personally don't think that there's a difference between a new player and a silver ranked player.

There is a MASSIVE difference between a level 15 player and a true silver elo player lol.

Just doing placements and going average will land you in silver

That's because 10 games is complete luck. Who is going to get the 0-60-1 player that runs down the mid lane. Who is going to get the diamond smurf? 10 game sample size is extremely inadequate (but to be fair, probably the best available option...I can't think of anything better, so I'm not going to criticize it too much). Especially when the first games are heavily weighted. You get lucky and get carried your first 2-3 games and you're pretty much guaranteed silver, even if you go 3-7 lol. But those players quickly fall to the bottom of silver 5 and get a bronze MMR, so I don't consider them true silver players.

LostFr0stMar 23, 20161 votes

You mentioned that you're leveling your account but that you played the game before; have you done the new tutorial on the rift yet?
It's pretty darn decent.
It's not thornmail Ashe like the proving grounds one.

As someone in Silver last season I can tell you definitively that new players (depending on their prior video game experience) can land and fluctuate anywhere from low Gold to Bronze even if they don't know the league meta. At that rank it just depends on where the minions are pushing after a teamfight. I'm not sure what you mean by 'true Silver' due to the huge variation in that bracket.

In all of my games Ranked and normals I've only seen a "run down mid" player maybe a handful of times; also pretty sure that the "Diamond smurf" card is mostly obsolete now due to the new champ select.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

There's a new tutorial?? wuuuuuut

You will never convince me that a level 16 player with 0 league experience is on the same level as low gold.

I meant true silver as in someone who has silver MMR for a period of time, not someone that got lucky in their first 3 provisional games, got placed in silver, and dropped to silver 5 with a 25% win rate. They're bronze.

LostFr0stMar 23, 20161 votes

Yeah^^ try it out it's fun. Just try to get perfect cs with the Soraka bot they send to your lane that times her autos to mess up your cs. I haven't looked at it since they updated raka though :/ She used to time her Q to get last hits in your lane.

I wouldn't believe it either except that my raging cousin did it. He didn't play any other mobas before LoL. He got to Gold 4 through sheer spamming of ranked. He doesn't really cs and just randomly wanders around the map sometimes... Once he got to 30 he literally just spammed ranked and got there.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

In how many games did it take him to get gold?

LostFr0stMar 23, 20161 votes

226 is the total number of ranked games he played.

He placed Silver IV with 4W6L

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

Point being I would not consider 226 ranked games to be "new" anymore lol. Those, plus all the normals to get to level 30 in the first place, are plenty of enough games to climb. In fact, if you've played 226 games and are still silver, a lot of people call you bad xD

That is quite different than what I'm talking about. I have about 40 wins. I'm level 16. With the new XP system, I could be level 30. I have enough champs (13+enough IP for 3 more) already to play ranked. Which means that me, a player with well under 100 total games played can go play ranked. They are going to horribly feed lol.

LostFr0stMar 23, 20161 votes

He leveled up in bots since it was more fun to hit stuff there since they don't hit back, usually demanding a duo top lane -_-" (2v2 or 2v1) I guess I should have added that earlier. When the server comes back up I'll be able to check how many normal games he has; maybe he has enough?

But I really don't know how many games it took him to get to gold. That's the total that he played that season, finally resulting in gold 4.
I only know that he fluctuated between Gold 4 and 5 at the mid/end of the season for the longest time.

AnratonMar 22, 20162 votes

The funny thing is .. about Season 2 or 3 .. they reduced the xp and ip gain per Game, as riot decided, the progress was to fast :-D

PDE5 InhibMar 22, 20165 votes

Rito flip flops and much as Hillary Clinton.

MeurtrierrMar 22, 20162 votes

Not only that, as soon as they reach level 30, they will pay for the cheapest champions, the one that cost 450 in order to play rank while not really giving a fuck about them.

PDE5 InhibMar 22, 20161 votes

Well, the new champion select already enables that. Rito basically said "you only need to learn 2-4 champs!"

So now we are going to have an influx of players with level 15 skill, no runes, and 1-2 champs they know how to play going into ranked. As if people didn't bitch about bronze enough, now they are going to have straight feeders on their team.

1 800 MID LANEMar 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MuWzh2h1,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-03-22T13:18:54.898+0000)

Well, the new champion select already enables that. Rito basically said "you only need to learn 2-4 champs!"

Quite possibly the biggest flaw with the dynamic queue system. People pick 1, MAYBE 2 champions for each role and then when that champion gets picked or banned, they're screwed.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for one-trick-ponies, being one myself, but you should have knowledge of a few other champions well enough to at least not feed if your main gets picked or banned out.

PDE5 InhibMar 22, 20161 votes

And you don't need to know 1 or 2 for each role...only 2 roles lol! And really only one role since you can just put mid as your secondary and get your primary role the vast majority of the time lol.

1 800 MID LANEMar 22, 20161 votes

Yeah. I meant each roles you always choose.

And my primary is mid. :(

darkmatchwaldoMar 22, 20162 votes

If anything they should double how long it takes. I tanked my ranked win rate last season because i was one of those "Oh i'm 30 i can play ranked now :D" people. 6 months and a 33% win rate later i have learned my lesson.

PDE5 InhibMar 22, 20161 votes

Exactly. Now imagine you playing ranked when you were level 15-20, since that's now how long it takes you to reach 30 in terms of XP.

Now imagine how fun the game is for your teammates that get a level 15 player in their ranked matches at silver elo lmfao. What a joke.

Taric the GayMar 22, 20161 votes

I think Riot put this forward to help with their retention rates. There are a bunch of players who quit or never pick up the game because of the time commitment involved with this game. Riot is hoping that this will hopefully attract the casual player base and result in more revenue for Riot's coffers. The higher ups of the company really don'the want to create the best game imaginable, they just want to make another dollar. You have to realize that Riot is a business before anything else and if they can make moves to improve their bottom line they're going to do it, and anyone who disagrees be damned.

PDE5 InhibMar 22, 20162 votes

I think Riot put this forward to help with their retention rates. There are a bunch of players who quit or never pick up the game because of the time commitment involved with this game. Riot is hoping that this will hopefully attract the casual player

See, I can't see this being a reason. Playing normal games is how you learn. I remember when I started playing I didn't think "omg I have to get to level 30 to play ranked!". Even when I did get to 30, I was just bronze anyway and it wasn't fun. New and "casual" players don't have a need to rush to level 30 to play ranked. That is what smurfs do, or people that have had their main account banned. But I guess they can make an extra penny off smurf kids buy skins again on a new account.

Taric the GayMar 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MuWzh2h1,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-03-22T12:12:03.010+0000)

See, I can't see this being a reason. Playing normal games is how you learn. I remember when I started playing I didn't think "omg I have to get to level 30 to play ranked!". Even when I did get to 30, I was just bronze anyway and it wasn't fun. New and "casual" players don't have a need to rush to level 30 to play ranked. That is what smurfs do, or people that have had their main account banned. But I guess they can make an extra penny off smurf kids buy skins again on a new account.

Not everyone thinks like you and I. Some are ultra competitive and the sooner they get to that competitive scene the better. Riot is targeting this specific subgroup in their new players demographic hoping that these players stick around for the long haul so Riot can milk them for all they're worth.

PDE5 InhibMar 22, 20161 votes

I respectfully disagree. I see where you're coming from, but I think "ultra competitive" people play to win...so they understand that they need to practice before play. I consider myself extremely competitive. If I'm shooting around hoops and my girl wants to play, you best believe I'm gonna block the shit outta that bitch and win 11-0. I wrestled for 1 year in high school. Being competitive, I knew I had a huge disadvantage in technique because other kids have been wrestling forever. So instead of playing their game, I just YouTubed "most painful wrestling moves" and learned them. My coach said, "you'll never hit those in a match" (talking about my spladle and guillotine). I hit them many times :). First year wrestling and I placed in sectionals and made it to districts in a pretty tough sectional. Had I just jumped in to "ranked" matches, I would have gotten my ass kicked....which I still did the first couple of matches anyway lol (had to wrestle some dick that placed 4th at state with legs as big as my torso hah).

Point being, ultra competitive people understand they have to practice and get better. These are not the people that rush straight to level 30 just because it's "ranked" matches. Because they won't be competitive at all. They will get their ass kicked haha. At least that's my opinion on it.

sealustMar 23, 20161 votes

"Oh, reached level 30, better buy my 3 more champs so I have enough to play ranked

New players have that inclination, anyway. When I started playing ranked I had no runes and barely knew how to play one or two roles. I just wanted to try this new thing that I just got access to.

Riot lowered the EXP needed to help new players unlock spells, runes, and queues. However, since they did not increase IP gains or lower the amount of champions needed for ranked, a newer player will take about the same amount of time to have ranked unlocked now as they would have before the EXP change unless they spend $$ to buy champions.

I don't see the EXP change changing much in terms of ranked.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

Here is how I see it. Before, you had plenty of time before level 30. So when I was leveling up, I was in no rush to buy champs. I bought champs that I liked. Now, you will be able to play ranked so soon that the amount of champions you own will probably be the only barrier to playing ranked (ie removing the time requirement). That allows people to just buy the cheapest champs. I mean, the starter pack that they were giving away for free already included 50% of the number of champions required to play ranked. Now you only have to buy 8 champions. It's going to be a lot quicker lol. If they want to do this fun "get to 30 quicker thing", then don't unlocked ranked play until you have at least 1 full rune/mastery page. I think the majority if players had plenty of enough IP to buy runes before hitting level 30. They won't now (provided they meet the champion requirement).

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

I'm level 16. I currently have 12 owned champions. I have enough IP to buy 3 more. That gives me 15. After those 3, I am only about 200 IP away from buying my 16th. Since level 16 now ~= level 30, I can played ranked matches.

This is without purchasing any RP. This is without linking my account to facebook/twitter/youtube to get the free champs (trist, ali, and I forget the 3rd). If I go link to youtube and get Alistar, I can now have enough champs to play ranked games. At level 16.

It does change things. Drastically.

sealustMar 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MuWzh2h1,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2016-03-23T14:02:26.424+0000)

I'm level 16. I currently have 12 owned champions. I have enough IP to buy 3 more. That gives me 15. After those 3, I am only about 200 IP away from buying my 16th. Since level 16 now ~= level 30, I can played ranked matches.

This is without purchasing any RP. This is without linking my account to facebook/twitter/youtube to get the free champs (trist, ali, and I forget the 3rd). If I go link to youtube and get Alistar, I can now have enough champs to play ranked games. At level 16.

It does change things. Drastically.

how the shit do you already own 12 champions? My alt account is at 18, owns 3 champions and is sitting on ~2000 IP. Would a new player really just buy the 16 cheapest champions? If so, that baffles me.

Generally speaking, actual, new players aren't going to use the knowledge a smurf would have to cheese their champ pool for ranked. are they?

And if they do, they will learn pretty quickly that it isn't working. hopefully.

(I believe the third free champ is garen with his dreadknight skin)

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

Mostly because they gave everyone a shit ton of free champs for linking to Amazon. They also gave a huge IP boost for doing it. But I don't even have all the 450 and 1350 champs lol, so I didn't just get the cheapest ones xD I even have 4800ip ones. And I haven't even bought an IP boost with the 400 RP rito gives you.

Point being, I'm level 16. With the new XP system, I could be playing ranked games right now. That is scary.

Would a new player really just buy the 16 cheapest champions? If so, that baffles me.

Before, probably not. But that was because they had plenty of time to save IP for champs they like with no rush. Now you will hit 30 so fast and "omg i wanna play ranked". That was typically the case for a lot of people, however they might have only had to buy 1 or 2 450 champs that they were never going to play anyway. With new system, these people will just rush to buy all the cheapos so they can play ranked since 30 is going to be so easy to hit.

It's also going to influx toxic players. Before, some of these players that were banned would hesitate to make a new account because of the time requirement to level. Not now. There's also going to be more smurfs.

Yes, you are correct. Garen is that last free champ haha.

sealustMar 23, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=PDE5 Inhib,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=MuWzh2h1,comment-id=0005000100000000,timestamp=2016-03-23T15:27:56.922+0000)

Mostly because they gave everyone a shit ton of free champs for linking to Amazon. They also gave a huge IP boost for doing it. But I don't even have all the 450 and 1350 champs lol, so I didn't just get the cheapest ones xD I even have 4800ip ones. And I haven't even bought an IP boost with the 400 RP rito gives you.

Point being, I'm level 16. With the new XP system, I could be playing ranked games right now. That is scary.

Before, probably not. But that was because they had plenty of time to save IP for champs they like with no rush. Now you will hit 30 so fast and "omg i wanna play ranked". That was typically the case for a lot of people, however they might have only had to buy 1 or 2 450 champs that they were never going to play anyway. With new system, these people will just rush to buy all the cheapos so they can play ranked since 30 is going to be so easy to hit.

It's also going to influx toxic players. Before, some of these players that were banned would hesitate to make a new account because of the time requirement to level. Not now. There's also going to be more smurfs.

Yes, you are correct. Garen is that last free champ haha.

I see your point. I really like that things can be unlocked for new players sooner but you're right about the smurfs and new accounts, which WILL lead to a shitter/harder new player experience.

But, I don't see any good option here. Like, before, it was a massive grind and a pain smurf or new player. Now that it's not so much, ehhh more smurfs = shittier new player experience. Maybe if they upped the XP requirements from lvl 20-30 once you had just about everything unlocked? idk.

Honestly, this is just making me want to play on my smurf.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

I don't know, I don't think there was a "massive grind" for new players. They were still able to play the game lol. Just not ranked....which they shouldn't be anyway at that point. This move was 100% directed at making it easier for smurfs. It's just going to have a negative side effect of also making it easier for toxic people that were banned. Probably cheating as well. Since you will be able to level up much faster, people can just level multiple accounts using different cheats and see which ones rito catches/misses.

M0b1usMar 23, 20161 votes

I am fine with Riot reducing the exp needed to reach level 30. However I am not fine with matchmaking someone with 50 normal wins with someone else with over a thousand in either ranked or normal. I am also not fine with people hitting level 30 without a single PVP game being played. Co-op vs AI should not give exp at all or at least not past level 10-15 or so.

PDE5 InhibMar 23, 20161 votes

And I could agree with this. However they aren't going to do the other things anytime soon lol. So this is just making it worse.